Overemphasis on Topspin?

[kevhen]

If you play on grass then flat is better than topspin but on a slower surface then topspin is very effective. I also slice when approaching net and slice when on defense. It's cool to be able to control a variety of shots using different spins on both sides. Don't fall for the "topspin is all you need" mentality.

[Caswell]

I have to agree that depth is more important.

If hitting with topspin lets you hit out on the ball and drive it deep, great. If you're hitting a shot with moderate pace that lands on the service line, all that's going to happen is a big hitter is going to step into the baseline to cut off the angles, take the ball on the rise, and hit down on it.

I hit a hard eastern forehand, and nothing suits me better than someone hitting a loopy topspin forehand that kicks up at me from the service line.

[sureshs]

I get a little early to the club before my matches, and watch the pros teaching juniors in the academy. The emphasis on top spin is unbelievable. All use W grip. There is only one mantra: high and deep with topspin. When I was a kid (I never played, just watched), control meant keeping the ball no more than 2 or 3 feet above the net. Anything more was derided as "badminton" or a sarcastic "this is such HIGH-LEVEL play". Today, it is about topspin with 6 to 10 feet net clearance. I look at the grips of these kids and the way they hit the ball "with the wrong side" of the racquet and I worry about their health in the future - most will not become pros or even get college scholarships, but wrist injury will hamper any kind of work you do.

[vkartikv]

Besides all the points that have been pointed out, I think it also encourages the youth of today to stay back. The continental grip is almost extinct except on the serve and hardly any kids I see out in the High school courts or even at my univ. are willing to approach the net. Even the ones that do are turned off by the quality of the shot they receive - loopy, topspinny shots that are not easy to put away...

[marcl65]

Okay, I read a lot about the advantages of topspin:
Greater margin for error over the net
Ability to hit harder without going out

What about it's disadvantages?
Easier for opponents to read because of the added height over the net?
Can sit up if not hit correctly?
Harder on the wrist?

One of the things that's really impressive is the topspin that just barely clears the net before dipping into the court. These are impossible (for me) to get to and return. But I would imagine that these are even more difficult to pull off than a flat shot.


How about the advantages for using the flat stroke (besides just mixing it up)?
Easier on the wrist?
Harder?
Faster?

[GuyClinch]

If you play on grass then flat is better than topspin but on a slower surface then topspin is very effective. I also slice when approaching net and slice when on defense. It's cool to be able to control a variety of shots using different spins on both sides. Don't fall for the "topspin is all you need" mentality.

What you never heard of Bjorn Borg? Topspin works well on grass. It's not like their are some 'flat hitters" out there who dominate at Wimbeldon. Roger hits with a ton of topspin. Sure he mixes it up but his basic game is pretty topspin oriented.

I play this guy who nowadays I can usually beat. He is a much better athlete then me and like 10 years younger. But he has big flat first serve he usually can't get in. And he has a huge flat forehand that is very hard to return when he hits it in. If he actually learned to use some topspin he would be a much better player.

Pete

[papa]

Originally Posted by sureshs

I get a little early to the club before my matches, and watch the pros teaching juniors in the academy. The emphasis on top spin is unbelievable. All use W grip. There is only one mantra: high and deep with topspin. When I was a kid (I never played, just watched), control meant keeping the ball no more than 2 or 3 feet above the net. Anything more was derided as "badminton" or a sarcastic "this is such HIGH-LEVEL play". Today, it is about topspin with 6 to 10 feet net clearance. I look at the grips of these kids and the way they hit the ball "with the wrong side" of the racquet and I worry about their health in the future - most will not become pros or even get college scholarships, but wrist injury will hamper any kind of work you do.

"wrong side of the racquet"??????? What are you talking about here?

"6 to 10 feet" - I little excessive, don't you think?

I really don't think the way they hit the ball will effect "their health in the future" if they hit the ball properly. There is nothing wrong with using the western grips are far as I'm concerned.

[mislav]

I was lucky enough to have my first coach teach me flat shots and old school game. The next one put all emphasis on top spin and (then) modern game. That's why I've always played with a variety of shots, grips, stances and whatnot. I like it that way - it gives a lot of beauty and diversity to my game. Also creates a lot of problems to some higher rated but one dimensional players I play against.

Eighties and nineties were all about the newly discovered heavy top spin stroke advantage. I think it was at that time that title of this thread made sense.

Nowadays the flat shots got re-incorporated into the game. We use the variety of shots and tennis has never been stronger.

[texcoug]

Originally Posted by GuyClinch

What you never heard of Bjorn Borg? Topspin works well on grass. It's not like their are some 'flat hitters" out there who dominate at Wimbeldon. Roger hits with a ton of topspin. Sure he mixes it up but his basic game is pretty topspin oriented.

I play this guy who nowadays I can usually beat. He is a much better athlete then me and like 10 years younger. But he has big flat first serve he usually can't get in. And he has a huge flat forehand that is very hard to return when he hits it in. If he actually learned to use some topspin he would be a much better player.

Pete

But if he added ts, the shots wouldn't be as effective. No question -- a flat bomb serve or fh is more difficult to handle, but I'll keep my spin and more consistency. I SELDOM even try a flat first serve anymore -- the risk/rewards just are not that great.

[texcoug]

Originally Posted by GuyClinch

What you never heard of Bjorn Borg? Topspin works well on grass. It's not like their are some 'flat hitters" out there who dominate at Wimbeldon. Roger hits with a ton of topspin. Sure he mixes it up but his basic game is pretty topspin oriented.

I play this guy who nowadays I can usually beat. He is a much better athlete then me and like 10 years younger. But he has big flat first serve he usually can't get in. And he has a huge flat forehand that is very hard to return when he hits it in. If he actually learned to use some topspin he would be a much better player.

Pete

How about this -- the greatest tennis player of all time? Pete Sampras, a flat baller.

And, for those that say that Fed is a heavy ts player, I disagree. Nadal fits that description. Fed uses a mixture of shots -- all types -- and seems to be equally good at all of them.

[Achillesg]

I get to see pros play on TV only. They all use topspin. Locally, I see several good Div. 1 NCAA teams. When the freshmen come in hitting (relatively) flat shots, they lose a lot. The coach works with them to get them to learn to hit deep with heavy topspin off of both wings and they start winning a lot more.

Lansdorp says too much topspin in the junior ranks, and he may be right. I wouldn't start my kid off with a full Western grip. But I'm also not starting him off with a full Eastern grip.

The women's game is a different animal. The shot is not the controlled violence of the men's shot. Topspin is not as important to the women because they can't hit as much of it.

[Slazenger]

Originally Posted by texcoug

I SELDOM even try a flat first serve anymore -- the risk/rewards just are not that great.

How tall are you?

[Slazenger]

Originally Posted by texcoug

How about this -- the greatest tennis player of all time? Pete Sampras, a flat baller.

And, for those that say that Fed is a heavy ts player, I disagree. Nadal fits that description. Fed uses a mixture of shots -- all types -- and seems to be equally good at all of them.

Why do people say Pete is/was a flat baller? Because he hit with and eastern FH grip?
Pete hit with topspin people. Even on the backhand side and his BH grip was almost continental. Now as with any good player he could flatten his balls, but his rally ball wasn't flat out flat.

[texcoug]

Originally Posted by Slazenger

How tall are you?

5'10.

[mislav]

Originally Posted by Slazenger

Why do people say Pete is/was a flat baller? Because he hit with and eastern FH grip?

Back in the early eighties, eastern FH was a way to go for heavy top spin. At least that's what they taught me back then. I find it to be perfect for playing both spinned and flat balls - although, my grip is somewhere halfway between eastern and SW.

I guess a lot of new players think how full western is the only way to go for a top spin...

[sureshs]

Originally Posted by papa

"wrong side of the racquet"??????? What are you talking about here?

"6 to 10 feet" - I little excessive, don't you think?

I really don't think the way they hit the ball will effect "their health in the future" if they hit the ball properly. There is nothing wrong with using the western grips are far as I'm concerned.

Sorry, misleading term. I meant the wrist action. Was thinking of something else - same face on both FH and BH, something like that.

6 to 10 ft is what I heard them say. The ball bounces over the head of the kids and that is exactly what the pro is looking for.

You are sure W grip does not put extra burden on the wrist? I am not talking big guys playing, more about small boys and girls.

[Slazenger]

Originally Posted by sureshs

6 to 10 ft is what I heard them say. The ball bounces over the head of the kids and that is exactly what the pro is looking for.

The guy must have just been throwing out numbers. 6-10ft over the net is overhead or at least swinging volley territory.

You don't have to hit the ball 6 ft over the net to get it to kick over a young kids head.
I play a girl who is 5'4" and when I'm being mean I hit topspin shots that bounce just above her shoulder and these balls clear the net by at most 2 ft.

[Andres]

Originally Posted by Slazenger

The guy must have just been throwing out numbers. 6-10ft over the net is overhead or at least swinging volley territory.

You don't have to hit the ball 6 ft over the net to get it to kick over a young kids head.
I play a girl who is 5'4" and when I'm being mean I hit topspin shots that bounce just above her shoulder and these balls clear the net by at most 2 ft.

Tell me about it. I'm "coaching" a 21 years old girl, who's excellent at ping pong, and has an enormous potential to become a great tennis player.

Sometimes, I like to mess up with her reflexes at returning of serve. We tried to do interesting things, and have fun, not get bored.

I tried a massive topspin serve... it has no real pace... it may be around 50 mph, but the kicking was so extreme than it bounced totally over her head, and she coulnd't do anything about it. And we got it on video, I'll post it tomorrow. It was hilarious

[Pomeranian]

I believe there is too much emphasis on topspin. Unless you can generate a very heavy topspin, keep the ball deep, and consistant hit over the net well, then it's just a tool. I only know a few people who uses an extreme western grip very effectively. There is a difference between height and topspin, something people don't always get.

There are some people who can hit a relatively low height over the net, and make the ball bounce up wildly. Unless you are one of those players and it's part of your game, attempting that much topspin isn't needed. Just keep it deep, and effective. I can't hit like those westerners very well but I can adjust how much topspin I need, in a defensive position or an offensive opportunity. To hit with that much topspin and still keep it in and deep, I would have to give the ball good height. I can hit great topspin lobs if I get time to set up.

For those people who can't hit with so much topspin, don't worry about it. Overrated, attempting to hit with that much and falling short in topspin may just end up being easy sitters to your opponents. I use it as a tool to keep it in, so I can hit hard. You do need variety though, topspin is definately needed. Flat and loopy and everything in between. But extreme Nadal crazy zany topspin isn't needed.

[forehander]

Originally Posted by sureshs

Sorry, misleading term. I meant the wrist action. Was thinking of something else - same face on both FH and BH, something like that.

6 to 10 ft is what I heard them say. The ball bounces over the head of the kids and that is exactly what the pro is looking for.

You are sure W grip does not put extra burden on the wrist? I am not talking big guys playing, more about small boys and girls.

Seresh, I knew exactly what you meant by "the wrong side of the racket". Some radical grips get so "Western" that it almost looks like they could turn the racket over and hit more easily with the other side without changing their grip! I've noticed this especially with the girls. I do a little action photography and sometimes have to look twice at my pictures to determine which side of the racket is actually going to hit the ball.