mains/crosses breaks, can I keep the other?

[RipinRandy]

Also remember--every time you restring a racket, you break it down a little. Pros will only string their racket a certain number of times before they retire it. I remember reading about Steffi Graf's pile of retired rackets.

The racket isn't going to explode when you restring just the crosses, it just puts additional strain on what is already a strenuous process. It is INTERNAL damage. When you look at the racket you WON'T see the damage you are doing. You can't tell what is going on inside the frame, that's why you take every precaution you can to protect the frame.

BTW---I said don't buy a used pure control from tlm because you have restrung it so many times...it was a joke.

[Stan]

With all due respect, RipinRandy might be crazy. This thread deomstrates no sense of perspective and obviously no understanding why professionals would never cut out and replace crosses. In addition to being dangerous to the frame, and perhaps more important, is the playability. You are not going to be able to achieve any consistency with your stringbed. The mains will be stretched, notched and out of shape. To replace new crosses can lead to a wildly different tension variance in mains and crosses. This will definitely impact the feel and playability. I am suggesting that anyone who is not able to detect this drastic of a difference is very insensitive to racquet feel and playability. I can not give credibility to feedback from players who are incapable of noticing this trade-off.

Bottomline...don't do it. Not worth it. STAN has spoken. It is law.

[tlm]

Okay stan,What about when you use a gut main+syn.x's.After a week the syn. string has lost 2-3 times the tension as the natural gut mains.That also leads to a wildly different tension variance.

[RipinRandy]

Originally Posted by Stan

With all due respect, RipinRandy might be crazy.

Huh? Why am I crazy? I said don't do it...

[Jerry Seinfeld]

Originally Posted by Stan

With all due respect, tlm might be crazy. This thread deomstrates no sense of perspective and obviously no understanding why professionals would never cut out and replace crosses. In addition to being dangerous to the frame, and perhaps more important, is the playability. You are not going to be able to achieve any consistency with your stringbed. The mains will be stretched, notched and out of shape. To replace new crosses can lead to a wildly different tension variance in mains and crosses. This will definitely impact the feel and playability. I am suggesting that anyone who is not able to detect this drastic of a difference is very insensitive to racquet feel and playability. I can not give credibility to feedback from players who are incapable of noticing this trade-off.

Bottomline...don't do it. Not worth it. STAN has spoken. It is law.

[wonder_wall]

Originally Posted by RipinRandy

Never buy a used racket from tlm...lol especially not a Pure Control...

Hey folks, back for a minute! Busy summer!

I think this is a great question. Nice sticky. Dd now can sticky things? Great!

Anyway, here's I think a great question for this thread and I think a great idea (blowing my own horn), and perhaps this is implicit in some of the responses, but I haven't read a message that specifically mentions it:

SCENARIO: BB Alu mains, synth crosses, YOU OWN YOUR OWN MACHINE. So, synth breaks quickly and easily. ALU is expensive, don't want to constantly replace, that's one reason for using ALU. Synth fairly cheap, don't care about replacing it frequently and want additional feel it gives.

IDEA: DO NOT LET SYNTH BREAK! RESTRING *BEFORE* THEN (i.e. try to catch it just before): At that point, mount racket on stringing machine, CUT UNBROKEN CROSSES after mounting, remove string, restring crosses - voila - cheap BB ALU string job, longevity PLUS FEEL! What do others think?

QUESTION: Would any good stringers out there find any good reason why this would be worse for the racket than what naturally happens when racket is in machine with mains strung and before crosses strung? I'd say perhaps the ALU has lost some tension, hence tension forces on racket perhaps not as identical as they were when freshly strung (this point could be perhaps defeated by each time you do this lowering tension on crosses a bit more).

ADDITIONAL QUESTION: What would most advisable order of cutting strings be? (Short, safe-seeming answer: middle outward, s/b fairly safe middle of the road type selection. Other choices: cut in reverse order strung, i.e. bottom up.)

[diredesire]

Originally Posted by wonder_wall

Hey folks, back for a minute! Busy summer!

I think this is a great question. Nice sticky. Dd now can sticky things? Great!

Anyway, here's I think a great question for this thread and I think a great idea (blowing my own horn), and perhaps this is implicit in some of the responses, but I haven't read a message that specifically mentions it:

SCENARIO: BB Alu mains, synth crosses, YOU OWN YOUR OWN MACHINE. So, synth breaks quickly and easily. ALU is expensive, don't want to constantly replace, that's one reason for using ALU. Synth fairly cheap, don't care about replacing it frequently and want additional feel it gives.

IDEA: DO NOT LET SYNTH BREAK! RESTRING *BEFORE* THEN (i.e. try to catch it just before): At that point, mount racket on stringing machine, CUT UNBROKEN CROSSES after mounting, remove string, restring crosses - voila - cheap BB ALU string job, longevity PLUS FEEL! What do others think?

QUESTION: Would any good stringers out there find any good reason why this would be worse for the racket than what naturally happens when racket is in machine with mains strung and before crosses strung? I'd say perhaps the ALU has lost some tension, hence tension forces on racket perhaps not as identical as they were when freshly strung (this point could be perhaps defeated by each time you do this lowering tension on crosses a bit more).

ADDITIONAL QUESTION: What would most advisable order of cutting strings be? (Short, safe-seeming answer: middle outward, s/b fairly safe middle of the road type selection. Other choices: cut in reverse order strung, i.e. bottom up.)

Actually, wonder_wall, you bring up some great points! You make a good argument for the structural integrity of a frame by pre-mounting, and saying that it is not as bad as stringing the frame normally. I thought about it, and I more or less agree. This is assuming you've mounted it well, but i guess that goes unsaid. The only problem with that theory I have is that instead of the post-string cutting, we must think about the post racquet dismount.

The major argument here is that the tension of the mains may be very, very different from what they once were. You can get away with this using some strings (such as kevlar, or poly) because they'll play similarly (dead) regardless of the tension. The point we try to get across is that these strings may have lost a good 10-15+ lbs during the duration of play, and you may be stringing the crosses at the same tension. A 10-15 lb tension differential isn't a great thing for any frame.

I'd cut the strings out middle outwards

Good points, though!

[wonder_wall]

Originally Posted by diredesire

...The major argument here is that the tension of the mains may be very, very different from what they once were. You can get away with this using some strings (such as kevlar, or poly) because they'll play similarly (dead) regardless of the tension. The point we try to get across is that these strings may have lost a good 10-15+ lbs during the duration of play, and you may be stringing the crosses at the same tension. A 10-15 lb tension differential isn't a great thing for any frame...

Thanks for the response.

I would think "my idea" would be popular among the cheapskates out here!

As far as 10-15lb tension difference, based on my stringmeter readings, that's a little bit high, especially given the target audience. Target audience would be types who like BB ALU but who want a softer string in the crosses and who break string very frequently. I'd say 10-15 lbs for those frequent string breakers is probably high. I've tested for tension loss using stringmeter and the most I've ever seen is something like 5-10 pounds. Not saying 15 lbs isn't possible, but I think it's unlikely.

Anyway, I don't use ALU, but I thought for those who do and who have a predictable string breaking pattern and who are cheap, it would be an interesting idea! But then again, I guess they'd need to have their own stringing machines since the establishment stringers I don't think would do this stringjob for the typical guy (as indicated by some of the responses in this thread), even though there shouldn't be much or any significant harm to the racket I don't believe, if it's properly mounted, with unbroken strings cut *after* mounting.

[SW Stringer]

Originally Posted by Stan

With all due respect, RipinRandy might be crazy. This thread deomstrates no sense of perspective and obviously no understanding why professionals would never cut out and replace crosses. In addition to being dangerous to the frame, and perhaps more important, is the playability. You are not going to be able to achieve any consistency with your stringbed. The mains will be stretched, notched and out of shape. To replace new crosses can lead to a wildly different tension variance in mains and crosses. This will definitely impact the feel and playability. I am suggesting that anyone who is not able to detect this drastic of a difference is very insensitive to racquet feel and playability. I can not give credibility to feedback from players who are incapable of noticing this trade-off.

Bottomline...don't do it. Not worth it. STAN has spoken. It is law.

An obvious hijacking of the Man Law beer commercial - hope you didn't have to consume massive quantities of beer to come up with this post - it would have been a waste of brain cells!

To tim: don't hold your breath on a reply from STAN - he probably doesn't even remember making the post. I think you can safely ignore the posters who haven't tried what you've accomplished many times - their only response is to overuse the FUD factor - i.e. handwaving, pontificating, spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt on a practice that obviously works and has economic justification. I've also replaced the X's on hybrids with Nat Gut mains but only a handful of times, but I'm encouraged by your results. Thanks for putting up with the deluge of naysayers who have no factual basis with which to make their claims.

[sypl]

This may be a bit outta left field but...

Couldn't there be an argument made that keeping one set of strings in whilst stringing the other might be better for the racket, in that it would prevent warping. Strings exert a lot of pressure on the frame; if you take them all out in one go and then immediately string 'em tight again isn't that more likely to lead to structural damage? After all, you're letting all the pressure go in one lot and then putting it all back on again. It's by this principle that you're advised NOT to take all the strings out of your guitar at once: if you do then there's a good chance your neck, having lost all tension, will change shape and be unplayable when you put new strings in.

[tlm]

Thanks for a little support from sw stringer+sypl.I also had a lot of people tell me you cant string below 56 lbs.+ have control, which was not true at all.I have strung natural gut as low as 47 lbs.+ it played with great control, with certain racquets.

I have been changing racquets more in the past year or so, i will find a great combo of strings+tension for 1 racquet then switch to another +that same set up wont play anything like it did on the racquet i was using.

With a new racquet i have to experiment for at least a month to find the right string+tension, this is were just changing the x's can save you time+money.I am always surprised at how much just changing the x's can change the way a racquet plays.

I always use natural gut mains+ i use the syn. x's to tame the power out of the gut.I play almost every day so i save one stick for matches only which i play 2-3 times a week.

I can usually get at least 3 weeks out of my match racquet so after a week or so i change the x's.When i do this i put the replacement x's in a few lbs. lighter than i did the originals.

I have had no problems period, even though all the experts that never try anything different tell me this is wrong.I have done this many many times on different racquets with no problem, even though you supposedly cant do this.

I am no expert on the construction of tennis racquets or what strains the materials can withstand which would be different for every racquet, but I am a senior mechanical engineering student.

There's a reason that they have a tension range and that is because if you string your strings within that range, you will not exceed the elsatic region of deformation (deformation that isn’t permanent). There is also a safety factor worked into this tension range so you could go higher and still stay within the range of elastic deformation.

I have cut the crosses out of my racquets, prince 03 tours, and restrung them without any adverse affects to the racquets on a two point mounting system stringer. From a theoretical perspective cutting the strings out is no worse on the frame than having them break. The tension on the frame is suddenly released and it is designed to withstand this.

Also, how could you think that removing the tension in the horizontal direction on the racquet face would be any worse than applying only tension in the vertical direction every time that you string your racquet and tension the mains before the crosses?

There is also a fatigue phenomenon that I think would be reduced as a result of only restringing the crosses instead of both the crosses and the mains. Fatigue results from cyclic loading that can break a material even if the load doesn't exceed the range of elastic deformation. Like when you bend a paper clip back and forth and eventually break it.

When you cut the mains and the crosses the racquet goes to its original shape. Then you shorten the height of the racquet by tensioning the mains and actually make the racquet wider than its original shape. Then when you tension the crosses you shorten the width of the racquet and may lengthen it slightly compared to when just the mains are strung.

On the other hand, when you cut only the crosses the width of the racquet changes but not the height. You eliminate the elongation and reshortening of the racquet therefore reducing the effects of the fatigue phenomenon.

[sypl]

Yes, that's just what I was saying! And that's the way I would have said it if I were a mechanical engineering student

[Robbie_1988]

Hmmm I just started using Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power in the mains at 55 lbs with Wilson NXT 16 in the crosses at 53 lbs.

My old set up used Wilson Stamina Spin 15L in the crosses also at 53 lbs. I told my stringer if the durability with the NXT in the crosses isn't bad then i'll stick permanently with this set up.

Then he told me that I could restring just the NXT crosses if I want for every time that I snapped the crosses. However, after reading about the dangers of uneven stress on the frame, I'd like to thank you guys for your wisdom regarding the safety of the frame.

I guess if people say that the tension difference between mains and crosses is TOO great then it would leave uneven stress on the frame. Since my Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power goes dead after a while and does lose a HORRIBLE amount of tension, restringing my NXT crosses at 53 lbs would be a huge difference in tension on the dead Luxilon Big Banger which were originally strung at 55 lbs.

Listen to uncle Bob kids: don't do drugs... and restring with a fresh full set of strings.

[psp2]

Originally Posted by Robbie_1988

Listen to uncle Bob kids: don't do drugs... and restring with a fresh full set of strings.

I DO agree with you. The only time I would cut out a cross string and restring is when I have gut in the mains and I really don't want to waste a perfectly good set of gut.

Here's a real scenario that I experienced. I strung up my SV PS85 with VS16 main/Gosen SM17 cross at 55/60. I took it out and hit with it several times (probably around 4hrs of hitting time). I really didn't like the feel of the stringbed. I don't know what it was, but it just didn't feel good to me. The VS gut was still in perfect condition, so I mounted the racquet back on my stringer (Alpha Revo 3k) and cut out the Gosen carefully. I realized that VS has lost some tension and simply estimated that it was around 46-48 lbs. I took out my half set of SPPP 18g that I had and strung up the crosses at 48lbs.

Took it out that night and WOW!!! What a difference I felt. Could I have just cut out all the strings and started over? Yes, but IMHO, I would have NEVER discovered how much I like the PS85 at low tension. Should I have cut out all the strings (I had plenty of VS left)? I say no, while others who chimed in this thread would say yes. Is my SV in any more danger being subjected to "micro" fractures? Who the hell knows for sure......... IME, cutting out the crosses (with care) is no worse than having a cross pop on you during play.

My rant....

[bad_call]

psp2's experience has demonstrated something learned when using careful consideration. i commend ur forethought.

[bmichaelia]

Originally Posted by Robbie_1988

Hmmm I just started using Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power in the mains at 55 lbs with Wilson NXT 16 in the crosses at 53 lbs.

My old set up used Wilson Stamina Spin 15L in the crosses also at 53 lbs. I told my stringer if the durability with the NXT in the crosses isn't bad then i'll stick permanently with this set up.

Then he told me that I could restring just the NXT crosses if I want for every time that I snapped the crosses. However, after reading about the dangers of uneven stress on the frame, I'd like to thank you guys for your wisdom regarding the safety of the frame.

I guess if people say that the tension difference between mains and crosses is TOO great then it would leave uneven stress on the frame. Since my Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power goes dead after a while and does lose a HORRIBLE amount of tension, restringing my NXT crosses at 53 lbs would be a huge difference in tension on the dead Luxilon Big Banger which were originally strung at 55 lbs.

Listen to uncle Bob kids: don't do drugs... and restring with a fresh full set of strings.

Robbie - Just curious, but many people reduce the poly tension 5-10% from "normal", and have non-poly crosses about 2 lbs higher than normal. So I could see someone with your string setup using somewhere around 55 mains and 60 crosses. I recently used a TiMo hybrid setup at 54/60 and liked it a lot.

Originally Posted by wonder_wall

Hey folks, back for a minute! Busy summer!

I think this is a great question. Nice sticky. Dd now can sticky things? Great!

Anyway, here's I think a great question for this thread and I think a great idea (blowing my own horn), and perhaps this is implicit in some of the responses, but I haven't read a message that specifically mentions it:

SCENARIO: BB Alu mains, synth crosses, YOU OWN YOUR OWN MACHINE. So, synth breaks quickly and easily. ALU is expensive, don't want to constantly replace, that's one reason for using ALU. Synth fairly cheap, don't care about replacing it frequently and want additional feel it gives.

IDEA: DO NOT LET SYNTH BREAK! RESTRING *BEFORE* THEN (i.e. try to catch it just before): At that point, mount racket on stringing machine, CUT UNBROKEN CROSSES after mounting, remove string, restring crosses - voila - cheap BB ALU string job, longevity PLUS FEEL! What do others think?

QUESTION: Would any good stringers out there find any good reason why this would be worse for the racket than what naturally happens when racket is in machine with mains strung and before crosses strung? I'd say perhaps the ALU has lost some tension, hence tension forces on racket perhaps not as identical as they were when freshly strung (this point could be perhaps defeated by each time you do this lowering tension on crosses a bit more).

ADDITIONAL QUESTION: What would most advisable order of cutting strings be? (Short, safe-seeming answer: middle outward, s/b fairly safe middle of the road type selection. Other choices: cut in reverse order strung, i.e. bottom up.)

************************************************** ****
Foremost, I agree with the majority that you should not cut out crosses and leave the mains on hybrid sets. With that being said, I am going to contradict myself quickly by saying that I have broken the rule for a while now.

Two scenarios:
1. I have been stringing my sticks with BB ALU @ 61 in the mains and Sensation @ 63 in the Xs. Once the sensation frays (usually 3 or 4 crosses at the top of the sweet spot) it will wear down to just a few threads in the center which leaves about a 20 gauge string. At this point I will mount the stick and restring the crosses only. After some trial and error I found the tension loss is truly negligible in the first restring. I have followed this formula with two of my sticks for about a year with no problems yet. I leave another racket "clean" and just use it to feed balls during clinics.

2. The local college team practices at our facility every day and often I get roped into stringing for them. All but two of the players are using a n6.1 tour or the n6.1 95. Wilson Enduro Tour in the Mains @ 60 and Sensation @ 62 in the Xs. They also will restring only the crosses, but the tension loss in the Wilson Tour is much greater than that in the BB ALU. The mains can only be used twice before it is dead. Again, I know that they have been using this strategy for this school year and have not had any problems with broken sticks besides anger management during practice. In addition, it is important to note that when the players head off to a tourney, we will make sure that we restring the entire stick so they have consistent tension in each.

Overall, I want to reiterate that I do NOT advise leaving strings in the stick for more than one stringing, but realize that some do it with success. If anyone is thinking about it, make sure your realize the risk of destroying or at least shortening the life of your racket.

[Robbie_1988]

Originally Posted by bmichaelia

Robbie - Just curious, but many people reduce the poly tension 5-10% from "normal", and have non-poly crosses about 2 lbs higher than normal. So I could see someone with your string setup using somewhere around 55 mains and 60 crosses. I recently used a TiMo hybrid setup at 54/60 and liked it a lot.

Why hello there. I don't have a perfectly reasonable answer to your question. I just prefer the feel of the stringbed with this set up after a bit of messing around with different setups.

[Pusher]

Originally Posted by tlm

I use natural gut mains+syn. x's,the syn.loses tension a lot faster than the gut.So after a week or so i change the x's only.

This will make my gut play great for a month,otherwise it starts to play poorly after a couple of weeks.I hit at least 2 hours everyday+i like my strings right,after you play a great string combo its hard to go to something less.

The pacific gut costs $34 a set+ i want it to last a long time,i have 2 racquets the same,1 is for practice+1 is for matches.And i have 1 new one in the closet in case i break a frame by just changing the x's.

I am not saying it wont happen,but i will tell you i have done this over 30 times now with no problems.If i were to break 1 frame a year it would still be worth it because of the money i am saving on the strings.

You guys can tell me its stupid+on+on,but you are saying you cant do something that I HAVE DONE OVER 30 TIMES WITH NO PROBLEMS.

Hey Tim,

This thread gave me encouragement to try restringing only the X's. I tried it last night leaving the klip Legend in the mains (originally@56lbs) and restringing the crosses (syn gut@51lbs)) and it played great. But that raises another issue for me-if the racquet plays great when the gut mains have lost 8-10lbs of tension then should I initially string the mains at a lower tension or stay with my original tension?

Good thread.