Mens tour: Selling Crass as the New Gracious?

[AnonymousCoward]

I can't help comparing the World Cup to Wimbledon this year. From the moment Zidane's head hit Matarazzi's chest Zidane was appropriately and immediately criticized in every language across the world. Nobody excused Zidane's for being a jerk because of his athletic skill, or because it was such a quality head butt.

Yet at Wimbledon we're told how elegant Federer looks in His pretentious and unsportsmanlike I-have-three-trophies-and-you-don't cream colored bespoke dinner jacket that he parades in front of His opponents. Last year we were supposed to enjoy His boastful I-hold-the-title-and-you-don't gold shoes. Next year, He boasts, He'll tell Nike to make Him an even more ostentatious jacket to rub His 4th Wimbledon title in everyone's face. All the while we're supposed to be grateful and privileged to watch Him pat Himself on the back so hard He wears holes in His shirt.

I know that Federer isn't the first pompous jerk on the pro tour just like Zidane isn't the first player to lose his cool in the World Cup. But while FIFA is calling for more sportsmanship the pro tennis tour seems to be promoting crassness.

Is it time for new leaderhip in the ATP? Or do we just have to tune out and wait until hopefully a new generation of players emerge that have character commensurate with their skill?

[stoffer]

AnonymousCoward? Hmm... that name suits you. Federer's jacket and Zidanes head butt are 2 very different things.

And what exactly is wrong with him wearing his "I-have-three-trophies-and-you-don't cream colored bespoke dinner jacket"? He DOES have 3 (now 4) trophies and is better than everyone else. Until someone beats him he can do whatever he wants. (Besides head butting his opponent)

[OrangeOne]

Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward

I can't help comparing the World Cup to Wimbledon this year. From the moment Zidane's head hit Matarazzi's chest Zidane was appropriately and immediately criticized in every language across the world. Nobody excused Zidane's for being a jerk because of his athletic skill, or because it was such a quality head butt.

Yet at Wimbledon we're told how elegant Federer looks in His pretentious and unsportsmanlike I-have-three-trophies-and-you-don't cream colored bespoke dinner jacket that he parades in front of His opponents. Last year we were supposed to enjoy His boastful I-hold-the-title-and-you-don't gold shoes. Next year, He boasts, He'll tell Nike to make Him an even more ostentatious jacket to rub His 4th Wimbledon title in everyone's face. All the while we're supposed to be grateful and privileged to watch Him pat Himself on the back so hard He wears holes in His shirt.

I know that Federer isn't the first pompous jerk on the pro tour just like Zidane isn't the first player to lose his cool in the World Cup. But while FIFA is calling for more sportsmanship the pro tennis tour seems to be promoting crassness.

Is it time for new leaderhip in the ATP? Or do we just have to tune out and wait until hopefully a new generation of players emerge that have character commensurate with their skill?

Is it crass of me to say that that whole post is completely ludicrous? Or perhaps you know that it already is.

Comparing something that reaches back to the more formal, dressed, presented & old-days of tennis & sport, to something that, were it done on a street, would be jailable-assault... I just have nothing more to say.

[chiru]

i think its funny that all the other atp players have to stomach it, and they know they cant complain until they beat him.

[Grimjack]

LOL @ watching soccer.

[psp2]

yaaaawwwwnnnnn...

[djones]

Originally Posted by stoffer

AnonymousCoward? Hmm... that name suits you. Federer's jacket and Zidanes head butt are 2 very different things.

And what exactly is wrong with him wearing his "I-have-three-trophies-and-you-don't cream colored bespoke dinner jacket"? He DOES have 3 (now 4) trophies and is better than everyone else. Until someone beats him he can do whatever he wants. (Besides head butting his opponent)

Don't you think it's rather arrogant to show off, just because you're a better tennis player?
And what makes you think a tennis player has all the rights to do anything he likes as long as he beats the rest?

[AnonymousCoward]

The problem with bragging isn't that it isn't true. The problem is that it is insulting.

My concern is that if the ATP tells people it's good to be an obnoxious jerk then people will believe them. What many of the posters seem to be saying is yes, we buy into this crap. They make my point better than I could.

It is very sad for the sport.

[tarheels2323]

In the US at least, and I'll assume for the sake of this post that the same is true for the rest of the world (please don't call me an arrogant American - it is in no way my intention), society surrounds itself with an air of retrospection. Clothes, music, automobiles - everything that is pop culture - are all going "retro." Everything, it seems has a throwback quality to it. I've been told that this advance and retreat of society has been going on for quite some time. Therefore, I am of the opinion that Nike and Federer are simply following this trend to which the rest of society has adhered itself in the past few years (more Nike, of course, than Federer). Both parties (probably more Federer in this case) are also aware of the traditionalist history which ecompasses the Wimbledon fortnight and the almost sacred quality of the tournament. The jacket is merely a throwback to the days of wooden racquets and the conservative (to say the least) dress which was commonplace on a Wimbledon court over half a century ago, and the way I see it, there's nothing wrong with a little appreciation for history.

[stoffer]

You guys are thinking too much into this. He is wearing a jacket. The jacket is style first, statement a distant second. Anyone else can wear a similar jacket if they wish with their own claim to fame on their own jacket.
Is your problem with the jacket that it had 3 racquets symbolizing 3 W victories?

It is sad for the sport? I cant see how. If anything it helped as people I know who dont usually watch tennis heard about it and wanted to see it.

[Shabazza]

Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward

The problem with bragging isn't that it isn't true. The problem is that it is insulting.

My concern is that if the ATP tells people it's good to be an obnoxious jerk then people will believe them. What many of the posters seem to be saying is yes, we buy into this crap. They make my point better than I could.

It is very sad for the sport.

Comparing a jacket to a headbut is ludicrous!
Do you have such an inferior-complex, that someone showing what he achieved in an unobtrusive way (and a little logo on a jacket IS unobtrusive!) offend you this much?!

[AnonymousCoward]

So boasting of your titles on your sleeve, or on your breast in this case, is sportsmanlike as long as the jacket is fancy?

And what matters most about a sport is its popularity?

If you're good enough then you should be pompous, arrogant, and disrespectful to other players?

The message is clear. There does seem to be a strong consensus. I won't argue with that.

[stoffer]

Yes the message is clear. You are a troll that should return to his closet. End of thread.

[alienhamster]

Of course the jacket is pretentious. Any Fed fan who says otherwise isn't being honest. But it is well, well deserved.

And it is ridiculous to compare a Zidane head-butt to Fed wearing a jacket. Do you think the jacket is an aggressive move on the part of Federer toward his opponents? Is he defensive because they've been trash-talking him, so he decided, "I'll show you, ya jerk!" by putting on a nice jacket before his matches?

WHA?

I'm pretty sure the jacket is directed towards THE CHAMPIONSHIPS as an institution more than at his opponents.

[Dedans Penthouse]

Originally Posted by alienhamster

Is he defensive because they've been trash-talking him, so he decided, "I'll show you, ya jerk!" by putting on a nice jacket before his matches?

Good post. Imagine his opponents cringing and shaking as Federer with a sadistic smirk on his face slowly reaches into his locker (and while keeping his stare fixed on his next victim), pulls out the jacket from his locker.......

And his "victim" starts wailing: "Oh no!! Not the jacket!!! Please!!! Anything...anything but THE JACKET!!!!"

[alienhamster]

Originally Posted by Dedans Penthouse

Good post. Imagine his opponents cringing and shaking as Federer with a sadistic smirk on his face slowly reaches into his locker (and while keeping his stare fixed on his next victim), pulls out the jacket from his locker.......

And his "victim" starts wailing: "Oh no!! Not the jacket!!! Please!!! Anything...anything but THE JACKET!!!!"

LOL! Perfect!

Federer (with jacket a-gleamin'): "This will have them all trembling in their nubbed, grass court shoes. WAA HAA HAA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"

[8PAQ]

Originally Posted by Dedans Penthouse

Good post. Imagine his opponents cringing and shaking as Federer with a sadistic smirk on his face slowly reaches into his locker (and while keeping his stare fixed on his next victim), pulls out the jacket from his locker.......

And his "victim" starts wailing: "Oh no!! Not the jacket!!! Please!!! Anything...anything but THE JACKET!!!!"

Fed has lost only one set with the jacket and that was in a tiebreak! He got to the final losing a record low number of games wearing the jacket. He bagled Nadal right after taking off the jacket and then almost fed him a bread stick right before putting the jacket back on. The jacket obviously has special powers. You know it is true!

[AnonymousCoward]

You can forgive Zidane for getting overly excited during a tournament that comes around only once every four years. And depending on what Matarazzi said to him you can understand his anger.

You can also forgive Federer for being full of himself and acting badly. He's played some great tennis.

But if you've read what I've said carefully, this isn't about Federer or Zidane. The point is that when top tennis players act poorly we don't just forgive them. We start saying that the poor behavior is actually good.

This is what I'm hearing from the everyone from the announcers to people responding on this list - that these things should no longer be considered unsportsmanlike. Rudeness is the new enthusiasm. Pump your fist at your opponent. Yell 'Come on!' when your opponent misses a shot. I actually heard an announcer criticize a player for not pumping his fist!

Some people on this list disagree with me on this. That's ok. But what is worth noting is how many people choose to insult me rather than just disagree. I do appreciate Dedans' sense of humor though.

It also seems to me that I'm seeing an increasing amount of unsportsmanlike behavior on the club tennis courts. It's not unrelated.

[alienhamster]

Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward

You can forgive Zidane for getting overly excited during a tournament that comes around only once every four years. And depending on what Matarazzi said to him you can understand his anger.

You can also forgive Federer for being full of himself and acting badly. He's played some great tennis.

But if you've read what I've said carefully, this isn't about Federer or Zidane. The point is that when top tennis players act poorly we don't just forgive them. We start saying that the poor behavior is actually good.

This is what I'm hearing from the everyone from the announcers to people responding on this list - that these things should no longer be considered unsportsmanlike. Rudeness is the new enthusiasm. Pump your fist at your opponent. Yell 'Come on!' when your opponent misses a shot. I actually heard an announcer criticize a player for not pumping his fist!

Some people on this list disagree with me on this. That's ok. But what is worth noting is how many people choose to insult me rather than just disagree.

It also seems to me that I'm seeing an increasing amount of unsportsmanlike behavior on the club tennis courts. I can't help but make the connection.

I'm not going to dismiss you as a troll here because you actually seem like you want to make some important points. (And, really people, isn't troll dismissal often just another form of trolling?)

If YOU read our reactions to your posts carefully, you would have hopefully inferred that the comparison you have made doesn't support the larger points you're arguing for and, if anything, confuses the issues you're raising.

(1) You haven't demonstrated that Federer has acted poorly. You keep assuming this as a premise without giving reasons for it.

(2) You jump from "not forgiving bad behavior" to a critique of all of us as tennis fans for actually saying this behavior is desirable. Once again, this is probably another point you need to give evidence for, argue, whatever. But you also seem to treat this as a given, whereas (if you'd read these boards thoroughly) you'd note that the hard core fans here really, really call players on bad sportsmanship all the time. As far as the non-hard core fans . . . well, it's debatable how much they love/hate what you're referring to as bad behavior. And maybe the discussion could take this direction for now?

So, basic point: you need to back up/explain your assumptions before we can move forward here.

[tangerine]

I didn't like Roger's jacket either. It made him look pompous and silly. I hope this was a one time thing and that he doesn't wear it ever again.