The "God" Argument ... (Moved from another thread)

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by nickybol

The existance of god has never been proven, it`s common sense to think he doesn`t exist.

Niether has the big bang proven itself. Common sense tells me there is so much intricate design in everything we see and in all systems that cause this universe to operate (inlcuding the systems in the human being, ecology, etc..), that something or someone had one thought in bringing it to being. Man creates, God creates.

For me, it takes more faith to believe that it happened by accident then simply realizing their is someone greater than fallible man.

[tennis_nerd22]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

Niether has the big bang proven itself. Common sense tells me there is so much intricate design in everything we see and in all systems that cause this universe to operate (inlcuding the systems in the human being, ecology, etc..), that something or someone had one thought in bringing it to being. Man creates, God creates.

For me, it takes more faith to believe that it happened by accident then simply realizing their is someone greater than fallible man.

and there is, good post. there is a God obviously

[nickybol]

Originally Posted by tennis_nerd22

are you teaching in the Canadian Tennis Association? btw your missing one thing here in what your saying, at least, IMO..

there is a difference between starting early and taking lessons and being able to play well after 6 or 7 years, like starting at 5, and being good at 14 or 15. but what separates those players and and the top players in the world (pro's) is the talent they were born with. you cant coach a kid when he's like 3 years old and expect him to play like federer when he's in his twenties. federer has a special gift given to him from god that he can see the court, and make the shots he can. what BB and me are saying is, if you have this talent, an work double hard ot even triple hard to catch up and compensate for not starting earlier, you can still make it to pro's if your determined. anything is possible with talent and hard work and determination (and yes, that means being determined to learn about strategies, tactics, etc. whether that be independently or from a coach).

i still think your missing that point: hard work+determination+natural talent=lots of success (as in being a pro if you really work at it). EVEN if you start late

You clearly have a different vision than mine. I think starting at a young age is necessary. You don`t see many pro players that started at 12/13/16 years old. To develop the champions of the future, you need to start young, as we do.

About my situation. No I am not teaching in Canada, but somewhere on the other side of the ocean. The kids we work with are all talented, because that is why we selected them.

I continu saying: you should start early. Motor skills and tennis technique is developed before puberty. Before puberty, tennis technique should be almost fully developed. If you start late, you just don`t have the time for that.

You do think there is a creator because it all looks so designed? Because it all looks so perfect? That`s called evolution: survival of the fittest. Maybe it isn`t perfect. How do you know it is perfect? You have nothing to compare it with. God didn`t create man, man created god. It`s like some water in a like. The water looks around and says: "Hey, the hole seems to fit me perfectly well! It must have specially made by someone!"

Man created god, and with god he created a lot of trouble. Millions and millions of religious deaths. The Bush government not wanting to help Africa because their so-called "Christianity" Many mass executions of pagans during the centuries. The conflict in the middle east. The crusades. The Christianization. The killing of christians in the Roman Empire. The sacrifization of people in Aztec culture. I can go on with this list for ages....

[Mike Cottrill]

Originally Posted by nickybol

Yes, I coach and teach tennis. The existance of god has never been proven, it`s common sense to think he doesn`t exist. .

WOW, I guess you did not work with Michael Chang. He gives all his credit and success to God.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by nickybol

You clearly have a different vision than mine. I think starting at a young age is necessary. You don`t see many pro players that started at 12/13/16 years old. To develop the champions of the future, you need to start young, as we do.

About my situation. No I am not teaching in Canada, but somewhere on the other side of the ocean. The kids we work with are all talented, because that is why we selected them.

I continu saying: you should start early. Motor skills and tennis technique is developed before puberty. Before puberty, tennis technique should be almost fully developed. If you start late, you just don`t have the time for that.

You do think there is a creator because it all looks so designed? Because it all looks so perfect? That`s called evolution: survival of the fittest. Maybe it isn`t perfect. How do you know it is perfect? You have nothing to compare it with. God didn`t create man, man created god. It`s like some water in a like. The water looks around and says: "Hey, the hole seems to fit me perfectly well! It must have specially made by someone!"

Man created god, and with god he created a lot of trouble. Millions and millions of religious deaths. The Bush government not wanting to help Africa because their so-called "Christianity" Many mass executions of pagans during the centuries. The conflict in the middle east. The crusades. The Christianization. The killing of christians in the Roman Empire. The sacrifization of people in Aztec culture. I can go on with this list for ages....

Well I can certainly understand your position that man takes something and ends up distorting it, twisting it, and ruining it. We always take something meant for good and manage to turn it into something for self-gain.

I think even you are guilty of doing that. You are just a man full of perversion, conceit, sin, lonliness, dispair, misguided purpose, psuedo-control over your life, arrogant in thought, rebellious in heart, and denying the existance of someone greater than you, etc...we all are. We are human beings created for a purpose but never realized the purpose coming out of the gates.

WHY ARE YOU DIFFERENT? You are just like me. A man that realized I dont have the answers to life, that man for centuries has tried to solve their own problems and simply can't do it.

However, I believe God is good and man has consistently messed up God's vision over and over again whether it be Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist or anyone else. We will all answer for our own lives.

Quit blaming your parents, your parents parents, history, etc...

We can bring up all beliefs and systems and find something wrong with everything.

[tennis_nerd22]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

Well I can certainly understand your position that man takes something and ends up distorting it, twisting it, and ruining it. We always take something meant for good and manage to turn it into something for self-gain.

I think even you are guilty of doing that. You are just a man full of perversion, conceit, sin, lonliness, dispair, misguided purpose, psuedo-control over your life, arrogant in thought, rebellious in heart, and denying the existance of someone greater than you, etc...we all are. We are human beings created for a purpose but never realized the purpose coming out of the gates.

WHY ARE YOU DIFFERENT? You are just like me. A man that realized I dont have the answers to life, that man for centuries has tried to solve their own problems and simply can't do it.

However, I believe God is good and man has consistently messed up God's vision over and over again whether it be Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist or anyone else. We will all answer for our own lives.

Quit blaming your parents, your parents parents, history, etc...

We can bring up all beliefs and systems and find something wrong with everything.

i definitely agree with that statement. i cant believe you dont believe in god nickybol, but whatever, everyone has their own views and opinions on everything. accepted.

however, if god wants you to succeed at something, he will give you the 'tools' (like talent, will, 'know-how', 'inner drive', determination) to succeed. its up to you to exercise and take full usage of them. i believe i have a talent, ive been told i do, so im going to make the most of it that i can. whether that be college, pro, GOAT, or not even going far. all i know is i will do my best to get to where i want to be. whether it happends or not is not in my hands. it's in God's hands. and when people tell me "no you cant do that" or "no your too young" or "you cant because there's already good players, and your level and ranking is way too low" or "no because you didnt start early", it makes me more determined. why? because no one can control how far i can go, only God and my inner self can. if im not supposed to go far in tennis, no matter how hard i try, i wont. BUT if i AM supposed to get far in tennis, if its in "God's plans", then i have to work hard to achieve that success. and the way i look at myself, started playing at 14, already good enough to beat most adults at my club, being told i have the ability, i have that inner drive, so im going to go for it. whatever happens is because God wants it to. and you know what else? no one can stop me... (except for my parents, cuz they have the cheque book ). bottom line: no matter who tells me i cant do something, ill put my mind to it, and do it. and if i do become a pro, ill come post here for you

ah well, that was my big speech for the day. now off to the shower, bed, and up at 5 tomorrow morning for tennis practice...

[tennis_nerd22]

Originally Posted by nickybol

You clearly have a different vision than mine. I think starting at a young age is necessary. You don`t see many pro players that started at 12/13/16 years old. To develop the champions of the future, you need to start young, as we do.

you still dont understand that even if you start late, if you have potential, its a matter of working many times harder than you would have had to if you had started early. doesnt mean you dont have a chance.

Originally Posted by nickybol

Man created god, and with god he created a lot of trouble. Millions and millions of religious deaths. The Bush government not wanting to help Africa because their so-called "Christianity" Many mass executions of pagans during the centuries. The conflict in the middle east. The crusades. The Christianization. The killing of christians in the Roman Empire. The sacrifization of people in Aztec culture. I can go on with this list for ages....

after that statement, i dont think i ever want to see you discuss anything to do with "God" ever again. you obviously dont have a religion, which is fine by me, i dont care about that... but dont say there isnt a God, because there is. HE is the one who created US, HE is the one who created the universe, the stars, and everything that exists, HE is the one that created earth and life as we know it. its not as if we just randomly fell from the sky one day eh...

btw, you know that the planets were formed during the Big Bang (though thats a theory), but all planets came from solids in space, dust, and gas? the star is a big ball of gas? that means that everything came from pre-exhisting material in space. and if there were naked humans in space, they wouldnt have survived, no oxygen (scientific view). so what your saying is when the earth and planets and galaxies were formed, 2 humans just randomly fell from the sky, had babies, and thats how life formed? or did they bloom from a flower? because if that is what you are saying, ill give you one thing... im absolutely speechless


so tell me, if there is no God, no Creator, where did we all come from? where did the planets come from? where did everything we humans have ever discovered near us come from?

btw, i dont mean to start a religious war thread out of a thread about coaching lessons... but i just cant believe someone would have the brain to say that man created God..

[MordredSJT]

Originally Posted by tennis_nerd22

im absolutely speechless

As am I. Please...please read a book about modern cosmology. Then consider following that up with a book on evolutionary biology. If you still want to believe in a god, that's fine...but at least have some notion of what the scientific theories you are attacking actually say.

That having been said. If you want to be a professional tennis player, you absolutely need a good coach or possibly coaches. I think that point has been fairly well established in this thread already though.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by MordredSJT

As am I. Please...please read a book about modern cosmology. Then consider following that up with a book on evolutionary biology. If you still want to believe in a god, that's fine...but at least have some notion of what the scientific theories you are attacking actually say.

Well I guess I can say the same thing for you. Please please read the Bible, because in it you might find the soul behind the creation or the evolution you believe.

If there is no God, what do we do with Christ? What do we do with his miracles? He claimed He was God?

If there is no God, no life, no hope, why are we being civilized? If I have no one to answer to after death what does it matter how many laws I break? What does it matter how many people I kill. All of our lives are meaningless, empty, void, dark, lonely.

IN THE END, IT IS ALL MEANINGLESS. A person with no god, is meaningless. A person who doesnt believe in God has no purpose - his only purpose is to survive.

Even if dinasaurs can be proved it still does not deny God created it. It only further proves His creativity of which we are still learning about.

Although I will agree that there is good science to further our knowledge about our world and universe so we can get rid of the modernistic thinking and behavior that has entered the church a long time ago, I also know that post-moderization is helping Christians to accept the science that IS provable and can be verified.

But just like any religion you beleive in (science included) there will always be those that will perpetuate lies in order to promote their selfish cause.

Science consistently shows order and systems that are complicatedly put together. Why wouldnt somone believe that something created it. Is that too much? Or is it pride that gets into the hearts of evolutionist to deny someone greater then themselves and someone they will be answering to?

[jackson vile]

Guys grow up and end it, there is no point in this.

Once a persons mind is made up in a situation like this it is set in stone.

And not to mention this is not the place to discus it

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by jackson vile

Guys grow up and end it, there is no point in this.

Once a persons mind is made up in a situation like this it is set in stone.

And not to mention this is not the place to discus it

Grow up? What is wrong with what we are discussing? It may not be in the right forum but is this a "childish" issue? Hardly. Plus, a persons mind is not necessarily made up, if this was the case then you wouldn't see evolutionist convert to Christianity and vice versa.

I will agree that this is not a forum for this discussion but threads do take a life on its own. Plus, coming from you, I could really care less what you think.

[GuyClinch]

so tell me, if there is no God, no Creator, where did we all come from? where did the planets come from? where did everything we humans have ever discovered near us come from?

I never did understand this argument. Assuming that there is a "God" where did he come from? Was he/she/it always just there? What the athiest would say is that the universe is JUST THERE. Just like God is "just there" for the religious person.

People tend to lose all rationality when it comes to the whole "God" issue. There is a reason why it's called "faith" you CANNOT argue for the existence of god. You just have to believe in the abscence of proof. You have to give Catholics some credit for getting this..

There is a writer who recently wrote a book called the end of religion. Anyway I was watching him in an interview talk about athiesm. He gave a neat example of how ordinary people suspend their rational thought process and how we all know what it's like to be an athiest.

He said that everyone in that room was Posiedon athiest. I mean you guys all know the Greek God Posiedon who ruled the seas. But none of us actually BELIEVES in him right now. But why?

Well we all have various reasons. I mean I have studied greek mythology and they were all created to explain questions about the universe that the Greeks coudn't answer at that time. Zeus threw down lightning bolts and Poseidon made the waves and controlled the tides and so on. Now of course we "know better" and have learned the scientific reasons behind these events. That's my reasoning..

And of course there are numerous other reasons to NOT believe in Poseidon. I am sure everyone here can think of their own. However when it comes to the Christian/Muslim/Hebrew "God" most people simply disregard that same logic by which they live their every day life. They start believing in things that they normally wouldn't.

It's kind of fascintating - as obviously there is some deep seated psychological need to believe in something "greater" for alot of people. But strictly from a logical standpoint there is no real "evidence" for "God." What's even more bizarre is that people will fight to the death over competing 'stories" namely the Muslim/Hebrew/Christian versions of religion simply for the reason that this is what their PARENTS taught them.

Of course from my perspective once you make the leap and believe in one tale or "religion" then what is to logically stop you from believing in ANY of them?

Jesus is the son of God - because I have some book that told me so. But Mohammed is the one true prophet because a different book told me so. And Poseidon is the God of seas because another book has told me so. Once you go down this irrational path your left with a sea of chaos - and a great deal of strife has occured because of it.

I am saddened when i see millions die because competing fairy tales.. I think the world would be much better off it they took a more skeptical view of religion. Most people don't even think about something as basic as why do we believe in this "bible" when their were hundreds of other relgious writings by other prophets and such that were dropped from it. Well of course the King picked and choosed some bits for his "bible" and now people take that as the word of God.

Of course once you start looking at bible history you realize that there were 100's of competing bibles at one time and if you examine the bible more closely you seem striking simliarities to many of the mytholgical stories available at the time. And I guess people don't like this..

Pete

[MordredSJT]

Originally Posted by Bungalo Bill

Well I guess I can say the same thing for you. Please please read the Bible, because in it you might find the soul behind the creation or the evolution you believe.

Read it...why did you assume that I hadn't?

If there is no God, what do we do with Christ? What do we do with his miracles? He claimed He was God?

What do you do with all the other figures that supposedly worked miracles and claimed a divine origin?

If there is no God, no life, no hope, why are we being civilized? If I have no one to answer to after death what does it matter how many laws I break? What does it matter how many people I kill. All of our lives are meaningless, empty, void, dark, lonely.

I find this concept highly disturbing. You mean to tell me that the only thing keeping you from a murderous rampage is the fear of punishment after death? That's the only thing holding you back? You have no respect for the lives of your fellow human beings beyond the negative consequences that taking them would have for you in the afterlife? What a twisted individual you must be...I'm so thankful that you have your religion to stop you from being a mass murderer.

Why are we civilized? Because it is a mutually beneficial arrangement! Duh.

IN THE END, IT IS ALL MEANINGLESS. A person with no god, is meaningless. A person who doesnt believe in God has no purpose - his only purpose is to survive.

A person that does not believe in a god does not necessarily have a meaningless life. They just aren't handed a meaning, aren't given a purpose. You have to find it for yourself. You have to decide what is important. You have to decide what you want your life to mean. And I could easily argue that existance itself is all the more meaningful to an atheist...because you only get one chance at it...it's finite...and after it is over, that's it. There's no eternal afterlife to sit around and chill with some god. You get one chance at this thing...you'd better make it count!

Even if dinasaurs can be proved it still does not deny God created it. It only further proves His creativity of which we are still learning about.

I'm confused. I ask a guy to read about cosmology and evolutionary biology so that he can at least know something about the scientific theories that he is downright butchering...and you come back at me with even if dinosaurs can be proved? What?

First off, you somehow assumed from the single statement I made that I am an atheist. That this assumption was correct doesn't excuse you from making it. Second, where exactly did I start arguing the point of the existance of a god? If you really want to start that argument with me, then fine...but why this reaction to my simply stating, "please read a book about modern cosmology. Then consider following that up with a book on evolutionary biology. If you still want to believe in a god, that's fine...but at least have some notion of what the scientific theories you are attacking actually say."?

Did I make an argument anywhere that scientific theories have disproven the existance of a god? No, I didn't. They don't have to. They aren't trying to. That is not their purpose, and I never intimated that it was...so why the reflexive answer?

Although I will agree that there is good science to further our knowledge about our world and universe so we can get rid of the modernistic thinking and behavior that has entered the church a long time ago, I also know that post-moderization is helping Christians to accept the science that IS provable and can be verified.

You mean things like big bang cosmology and evolutionary biology?

But just like any religion you beleive in (science included) there will always be those that will perpetuate lies in order to promote their selfish cause.

Oh...science is a religion now? What an original argument. Please define religion. The only way for the definition to apply to science is to widen it so far that is loses practically all meaning.

This statement also puts you about a step and a half away from the "international scientific conspiracy theory" whackjobs.

Science consistently shows order and systems that are complicatedly put together. Why wouldnt somone believe that something created it. Is that too much? Or is it pride that gets into the hearts of evolutionist to deny someone greater then themselves and someone they will be answering to?

Modern cosmology has consistently shown us that the universe is an extremely chaotic place, both on the order of the very large and infinitesimely small. In this chaos there are relatively small pockets of order. We happen to exist in one. This being our experience within our immediate surroundings we work on the assumption that the rest of the universe is similar. It appears that it isn't.

As for why someone wouldn't believe that something created it...the question is why should someone believe that something created it. Am I to assume that something must have a creator unless it is proven otherwise? On what logical basis am I forced to make this assumption? You are merely putting forth the age old theist argument...god has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist? This is not logical. If I am to believe the statement, god exists, then that positive statement must be proven! It is not my responsibility to prove the negative.

Again, I am left to wonder why a simple statement asking a person who clearly lacks scientific understanding to acquire some before he attacks and dismisses scientific theories garnered such a response.

[tennis_nerd22]

Originally Posted by MordredSJT

Read it...why did you assume that I hadn't?

because of the stupid post you made obviously...

[Brettolius]

Originally Posted by tennis_nerd22

because of the stupid post you made obviously...

You should probably stop responding because it is obvious you are out of your league here and really aren't comprehending what is being said.

[Brettolius]

Originally Posted by GuyClinch

I never did understand this argument. Assuming that there is a "God" where did he come from? Was he/she/it always just there? What the athiest would say is that the universe is JUST THERE. Just like God is "just there" for the religious person.

People tend to lose all rationality when it comes to the whole "God" issue. There is a reason why it's called "faith" you CANNOT argue for the existence of god. You just have to believe in the abscence of proof. You have to give Catholics some credit for getting this..

There is a writer who recently wrote a book called the end of religion. Anyway I was watching him in an interview talk about athiesm. He gave a neat example of how ordinary people suspend their rational thought process and how we all know what it's like to be an athiest.

He said that everyone in that room was Posiedon athiest. I mean you guys all know the Greek God Posiedon who ruled the seas. But none of us actually BELIEVES in him right now. But why?

Well we all have various reasons. I mean I have studied greek mythology and they were all created to explain questions about the universe that the Greeks coudn't answer at that time. Zeus threw down lightning bolts and Poseidon made the waves and controlled the tides and so on. Now of course we "know better" and have learned the scientific reasons behind these events. That's my reasoning..

And of course there are numerous other reasons to NOT believe in Poseidon. I am sure everyone here can think of their own. However when it comes to the Christian/Muslim/Hebrew "God" most people simply disregard that same logic by which they live their every day life. They start believing in things that they normally wouldn't.

It's kind of fascintating - as obviously there is some deep seated psychological need to believe in something "greater" for alot of people. But strictly from a logical standpoint there is no real "evidence" for "God." What's even more bizarre is that people will fight to the death over competing 'stories" namely the Muslim/Hebrew/Christian versions of religion simply for the reason that this is what their PARENTS taught them.

Of course from my perspective once you make the leap and believe in one tale or "religion" then what is to logically stop you from believing in ANY of them?

Jesus is the son of God - because I have some book that told me so. But Mohammed is the one true prophet because a different book told me so. And Poseidon is the God of seas because another book has told me so. Once you go down this irrational path your left with a sea of chaos - and a great deal of strife has occured because of it.

I am saddened when i see millions die because competing fairy tales.. I think the world would be much better off it they took a more skeptical view of religion. Most people don't even think about something as basic as why do we believe in this "bible" when their were hundreds of other relgious writings by other prophets and such that were dropped from it. Well of course the King picked and choosed some bits for his "bible" and now people take that as the word of God.

Of course once you start looking at bible history you realize that there were 100's of competing bibles at one time and if you examine the bible more closely you seem striking simliarities to many of the mytholgical stories available at the time. And I guess people don't like this..

Pete

Awesome post! Very, very well said. I would like to hear one of the faithful address some of the issues that you've pointed out here rather than get all bent out of shape.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by MordredSJT

Read it...why did you assume that I hadn't?



What do you do with all the other figures that supposedly worked miracles and claimed a divine origin?



I find this concept highly disturbing. You mean to tell me that the only thing keeping you from a murderous rampage is the fear of punishment after death? That's the only thing holding you back? You have no respect for the lives of your fellow human beings beyond the negative consequences that taking them would have for you in the afterlife? What a twisted individual you must be...I'm so thankful that you have your religion to stop you from being a mass murderer.

Why are we civilized? Because it is a mutually beneficial arrangement! Duh.



A person that does not believe in a god does not necessarily have a meaningless life. They just aren't handed a meaning, aren't given a purpose. You have to find it for yourself. You have to decide what is important. You have to decide what you want your life to mean. And I could easily argue that existance itself is all the more meaningful to an atheist...because you only get one chance at it...it's finite...and after it is over, that's it. There's no eternal afterlife to sit around and chill with some god. You get one chance at this thing...you'd better make it count!



I'm confused. I ask a guy to read about cosmology and evolutionary biology so that he can at least know something about the scientific theories that he is downright butchering...and you come back at me with even if dinosaurs can be proved? What?

First off, you somehow assumed from the single statement I made that I am an atheist. That this assumption was correct doesn't excuse you from making it. Second, where exactly did I start arguing the point of the existance of a god? If you really want to start that argument with me, then fine...but why this reaction to my simply stating, "please read a book about modern cosmology. Then consider following that up with a book on evolutionary biology. If you still want to believe in a god, that's fine...but at least have some notion of what the scientific theories you are attacking actually say."?

Did I make an argument anywhere that scientific theories have disproven the existance of a god? No, I didn't. They don't have to. They aren't trying to. That is not their purpose, and I never intimated that it was...so why the reflexive answer?



You mean things like big bang cosmology and evolutionary biology?



Oh...science is a religion now? What an original argument. Please define religion. The only way for the definition to apply to science is to widen it so far that is loses practically all meaning.

This statement also puts you about a step and a half away from the "international scientific conspiracy theory" whackjobs.



Modern cosmology has consistently shown us that the universe is an extremely chaotic place, both on the order of the very large and infinitesimely small. In this chaos there are relatively small pockets of order. We happen to exist in one. This being our experience within our immediate surroundings we work on the assumption that the rest of the universe is similar. It appears that it isn't.

As for why someone wouldn't believe that something created it...the question is why should someone believe that something created it. Am I to assume that something must have a creator unless it is proven otherwise? On what logical basis am I forced to make this assumption? You are merely putting forth the age old theist argument...god has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist? This is not logical. If I am to believe the statement, god exists, then that positive statement must be proven! It is not my responsibility to prove the negative.

Again, I am left to wonder why a simple statement asking a person who clearly lacks scientific understanding to acquire some before he attacks and dismisses scientific theories garnered such a response.

Why do you assume it is an attack? So you are saying that I lack? Why can't you have an intelligent conversation about something deep? I did not attack only continued a conversation that is very deep. I can't help if you are immature to not handle hard questions.

Maybe you assumed I was not well versed in the subject and would only be able to communicate with you on a typical shallow Christian level?

Maybe you assumed that I never took courses on evolution, read books on evolutions, studied the religion of evolution, and never studied pre-moderism, modernism, and post-modernism?

Hardly!

I know well versed in understanding where religions, science, and evolution religions problem stem from. Both come from opposite sides of the ring for a reason and a reason that happened long ago. Both are riddled with deep modernistic viewpoints and false dycotomies.

If you want go into the subjects, you will also have to know about history. If you want to get into the subject dude, go for it, but you will need to go deep, or back off, quit thinking it is an attack and discuss it. Both of us can learn from each other to further our current beliefs or come together.

Further, at this point, and if you do want to discuss it without crying about things, we should take this offline, I can go as far as you want to go. If I don't know the answer, I have plenty of resources to draw from.

Finally, a Godless world is a void world. There is no purpose. You live and you die. Period. There is no hope, it is a world that will end in death.

If a person decides to commit suicide and there is no one to answer to for their life, why not let them? Why can't they just die? There is nothing else after death. It is void and meaningless.

[Bungalo Bill]

Originally Posted by MordredSJT

Read it...why did you assume that I hadn't?

Tell me something. If we could find God, and he gave you a path to find Him, wouldn't you be excited to not only continue exploring His vast creation through science and know Him?

Why are evolutionist so bitterly against God? Do you know what I am mean by an "EVOLUTIONIST"? It is one that believes the world has no plan and no purpose. It just happened. Everyday you explore science you discover the incredible intelligence that went into that creation.

The more you prove this world, the more you prove something created it. It is too full of intelligence, order, and structure. There is exteme intelligence in this universe of which I am glad science continues to uncover. I believe God wants us to discover his vastness. It is awesome!

So, why are the Jews still around? Why hasn't the turbulence of their entire history genecided them? This is just one thing out of a hundred we can go over.

So if we come to a conclusion that something is holding the Jews and the nation Isreal together, can we assume it is something greater than us?

If we can, then we can go out and gather the evidence that supports this right? We can come to conclusions based on the information we have right? Even science doesn't have all the answers but still has its projections and conclusions right?

I will say it once again, with no god and no creator, life is meaningless, we have no purpose except to live and then die. Survival of the fittess takes over, suicide increases, depression increases, people that need God have been told their is no God, yet creation screams otherwise!

No God, no hope. We need something greater then ourselves to solve our problems. Man can not solve his sin.

[nickybol]

All those poor fellows need a god to keep them from doing wrong things. All those poor fellows like Bungalo Bill need a god to give purpose to their live, to solve their problems. It`s just pathetic.

Live is void and meaningless. Life has no purpose but dying. If someone wants to commit suicide, let him. Why should you stop him?

[dannyjjang]

well if you believe in God there is a limit, if you dont there isn't...
And the goals are very different believers has their ultimite goal that they can never fufill, to obey WHAT GOD has told them to, but that is the fuel for the believers.

My theory of existence of God? is he gave us knowledge of right and wrong. That is fascinating to me, ever since as a little kid we know stealing is bad. We sub conciously know the right and wrong. Many people say sex , masturbation is natural for us, but God proclaimed to have sex after marriage, and masturbation is an adultery. Why do little kids shows negative attitude when someone says "sex" most likely kids reply with an "eww"...


Wtf am i saying..im not good at writing well my point is God is good to know....badfadarw