This is what I'm looking for. String identical to Twist but better durability. I'll give Blackout a chance and see from there.
Pro's Pro Strings!?
- Thread starter Jura-SB
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This is what I'm looking for. String identical to Twist but better durability. I'll give Blackout a chance and see from there.
Karma Tennis
Legend
@illzoni, have you tried any of them in a full bed? Ignoring the durability aspect, I imagine your hybrids provide more pop but at the expense of less spin potential and less control potential.
We've been using full beds of 1.24mm Black Out in 2013 APD for a little while now and very happy with everything about that string. String bed durability, tension maintenance and notching are not an issue because I can re-string as frequently as I like - usually after 4 to 5 hours of typical hitting.
Have experimented with all sorts of poly/sg and poly/multi hybrids in the past but nothing comes close to a full bed of poly for players with long fast swings and proper stroke technique.
No, I haven't. My son's racquets are the priority and since he's only 14, I've been reluctant to go full poly in fear of the effects on his body. Conversely, I'm very tempted to do so to allow him to swing through fully with maximum control. I'm seriously tempted.
Is keeping him in a poly/SG hybrid actually saving any potential damage to his arm?
Would full-bed poly actually be better, allowing him better technique?
I have played full poly since juniors and never had pain and have used very stiff frames. I have a few points regarding poly, obviously I am no scientist/doctor.
Pain IMO is down to technique. I semi/coach juniors (babysit them more like hehe), and they all use full poly. The people with TE and shoulder problems in my club all have flaws in their technique (from poor shoulder positioning on the serve, to muscling the ball etc).
Pro's Pro and even most polys die quickly. Thanks to the low price of pro's pro, we can string frequently. Fresh poly is the best for your arm.
I would get my kid started on higher swingweights first before they start using poly. Loads of kids use junior rackets and swing them in bad ways and muscle the ball. The heavier rackets will force them to swing smoothly and efficiently. This is however dependant on their bodies, I would wait until they get out of that junior stage first and around 16 start changing equipment. So just a few things you can consider.
Karma Tennis
Legend
I tend to echo @Aretium's thoughts.
It really depends how big your son is physically, and the static weight of his racquet. If he is tall and (relatively) solid (ie starting to feel the effects of puberty) and he is using a heavier racquet (in the order of 330 to 350g strung) a full bed of 1.24mm Black Out would certainly be worth considering AS LONG AS YOU RESTRING EVERY 4 to 5 hours. He should have decent stroke technique and have a low grip pressure on the racquet handle for extra protection.
I believe the right Poly/SG hybrid does protect arms from tennis related injuries but it comes at a play-ability cost. Full bed poly should give him more spin potential and more control potential. Notice I use the word "potential". There are no guarantees that full bed of Poly would transform his game at the moment but you won't know unless you try. Certainly nothing wrong with sticking with the current equipment set-up for a couple more years though.
Revisit the tension settings with full beds of Poly. In a 16x19 pattern full bed of 1.24 Black Out, I suggest you start at about 48lbs and work you way up from there if he finds it has too much pop to control. Depending on hitting style you might also find some interesting (possibly desirable) results stringing the crosses slightly lower than the the mains.
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wmrhawk
Rookie
The PP I-String Soft is a nice alternative to syn gut in the crosses. You get the comfort with a little better string movement and spin. I am still experimenting, but blackout/I-String Soft is one of my favorite hybrids. It is also a favorite among several of my string clients, including a very good 14 yr old who plays about at the 4.0/4.5 level.
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I have been using Blackout 16 and Red Devil 16 on a Babolat APD GT for half a year now. I string Blackout at 42 lbs main, and Red Devil at 44 lbs cross. Sometimes when I hit all out, i feel it a little in my forearm afterward. But most of the time, I don't ever hit that hard, and I don't feel any pain at all. I can play until the main string breaks, which used to be 12 hours, but now is about 24 hours now that i am driving the balls more than just spinning it. Blackout on the main strings has very good spin, consistency, and tension maintenance, and is soft enough not to hurt my arm. Red Devil on the cross strings provides power, comfort, some ball pocketing, but still has good tension maintenance (probably because the thick 16 gauge is not overly worn by the time the main string breaks). I have a semi-western grip, and it provides plenty of spin to keep the ball in the court. If you are a flatter hitter, you will probably want to string it in the mid to upper 40s pounds tension-wise to keep the ball from flying out of the court. I used to use Vendetta nano 16 in the main strings instead of Blackout 16, and i really liked the slightly more ball pocketing of the Vendetta nano. But the greater control of the Blackout due to its lower power without any tramboline effect from the minimal ball pocketing of the string has made my game even more consistent. Blackout's low power level and lack of ball pocketing makes the ball response very predictable, thus increasing consistency and swing away confidence.
I am seeing that others are liking the combination of Blackout mains and Black Force crosses. Has anyone who has tried both Blackout/Black Force, and Blackout/Red Devil, please compare both. I have heard that Black Force does stretch significantly, so I am wondering if tension maintenance would be decreased compared to Red Devil, with the result being decreased consistency in Black Force compared to Red Devil (when both are used as crosses). Thanks.
Thanks for the review. Sounds a promising set-up. Need to get hold of a reel of BO to try this out. Have RD already.
tennisBIEST
Professional
Hey Karma! I used the APD 2013 about a year ago but we got sponsored by Head so it was sold off. I have one coming and I remember really loving that frame. I used PPPP, Red Devil, Ichiban Spin and I believe I had BlackOut mains and Tecnifibre SG crosses in it as well. I was wondering what tensions you been using the full bed of BO in APD? I've played BlackOut fb anywhere from low 40's to low 50's. I'll probably go mid 40's to start and go from there. I may also throw some Black Force or Red Devil in the crosses to soften it up if I need to. Let me know! Thanks!!
Karma Tennis
Legend
Hey tennisBIEST! We've tried it at several tensions including different tensions for mains and crosses. Personally, I think a full bed works better fresh in the low 50s than it does in the low 40s from a control perspective but at the cost of lower power and a little bit of comfort. (Especially so for long fast swings which are very well suited to the 2013 APD.). This is during warmer months. When it starts to get a bit cooler, probably look at mid to high 40s.
I guess it depends on your hitting style and what you are looking for in terms of power potential and comfort level. I don't see any great difference in spin potential between the low 40s to mid 50s. So I suggest you string according to your control -v- power potential requirements and comfort factor. On that basis I think your idea to start with mid 40s is a good one.
While I tend to use same tension for mains and crosses, I have noticed that dropping the tension of the crosses by a couple of lbs does soften the bed up a tad, certainly increasing the power potential and the launch angle. But you do pay a little price in control potential. I will probably eventually get around to getting a reel of Black Force to do some hybrid testing. But frankly, I can't see that it will make a huge difference for us because we re-string frequently.
Take all of my opinions in the context that we are using customised 2013 APDs, around 340g static weight and 8 Points Head Light balance (strung).
I guess it depends on your hitting style and what you are looking for in terms of power potential and comfort level. I don't see any great difference in spin potential between the low 40s to mid 50s. So I suggest you string according to your control -v- power potential requirements and comfort factor. On that basis I think your idea to start with mid 40s is a good one.
While I tend to use same tension for mains and crosses, I have noticed that dropping the tension of the crosses by a couple of lbs does soften the bed up a tad, certainly increasing the power potential and the launch angle. But you do pay a little price in control potential. I will probably eventually get around to getting a reel of Black Force to do some hybrid testing. But frankly, I can't see that it will make a huge difference for us because we re-string frequently.
Take all of my opinions in the context that we are using customised 2013 APDs, around 340g static weight and 8 Points Head Light balance (strung).
Karma Tennis
Legend
What do you mean when you say "quality"?
tennisBIEST
Professional
Thanks Karma!! Couple of years ago I used a Mamba tennis string called Black Spin $55(?) reel (Black Code Clone) in my Yonex RdiS 100 54/50 and it was quite nice. That racquet was low powered though. Can't wait to string up the APD! I've used BluTack in the handle before but ultimately took it out because I loved it all the same stock. Putting black force in the crosses with Blackout definitely helps with the serve...big pop and great spin!
Just a little update. Halfway through a reel of 1.33 Concept. I am now up at 58lbs in my 6.1 95, bearing in mind I was at 48 in my pro staff 90. The 6.1 is apparently a stiff racket, but this string is super soft.
So if you are looking for durability, control and comfort, this string could be for you. I may be looking for a stiffer poly next time because the 6.1 95 is a powerful frame.
So if you are looking for durability, control and comfort, this string could be for you. I may be looking for a stiffer poly next time because the 6.1 95 is a powerful frame.
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
Any input in on how Claycourt Plus compares to Gutex Ultra (I've only played with the latter)? Also, I recently played with some Prince Premier Control and I liked it. To be honest, seemed more like a mix between a multi and synthetic gut to me. Though it isn't super expensive, would love to find something on the cheap.
Ben42
Semi-Pro
Both were nice, but I like Claycourt Plus a little better. Both were good, comfortable multis. CC+ had a bit more control, Gutex a bit more power. For me it really came down to I put more shots in play with CC+ and more balls into the tape with Gutex.
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
Thanks. Any input on durability and spin?
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Zlatni
Rookie
I have used both gutex 17 and CC+.
I get more spin with gutex, but it is probably due to the fact that it is a much thinner string. It has more power as well.
CC+ is very controlled. I can get good spin, just not as much as gutex.
Gutex moves a lot, while CC seems to stay put. I am not a string breaker, so I have no issues with durability.
For my money CC is probably a best value multi.
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I get more spin with gutex, but it is probably due to the fact that it is a much thinner string. It has more power as well.
CC+ is very controlled. I can get good spin, just not as much as gutex.
Gutex moves a lot, while CC seems to stay put. I am not a string breaker, so I have no issues with durability.
For my money CC is probably a best value multi.
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BretH
Semi-Pro
I have used CC Plus as full bed at 55-60 lbs in 95-98 Sq in racquets. I love the feel of that string although I never used the string it's supposed to be similar to - X-1 Biphase. CC Plus has a hard outer coating that slows wear (is is a multi after all) and it also loses color where hit so you get a nice indication of where you are hitting the ball. I think this coating accounts at least for some of its feel. I think it would be a decent string for tennis elbow sufferers - soft but with more body than say a Forten Sweet. Once the outer coating wears through it's all over though - the string snaps right after.
Ben42
Semi-Pro
Similar in durability for me, but unlike Zlatni, I get better spin from CC+. They were both 16g.
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
Well I've ordered a reel of Claycourt Plus since you guys say it's good. It's tough to buy just a set, when reels are so cheap and bring down the cost per set exponentially. It's kind of like why nobody buys a small Slurpee.
skraggle
Professional
For me, that would be Plus Power 1.23.
BretH
Semi-Pro
Very interested in your impression.
tennisBIEST
Professional
Just wanted to throw out a quick update with the Black Out/Black Force hybrid compared to the full bed of Black Out. So I've gone back and forth with the BO/BF hybrid and fullbed of BO and the power, feel and comfort is heads and shoulders above the full bed of Black Out. The serves are just booming with the hybrid and the spin on my kickers are very nice. From the baseline I'd give a small edge to BO just because there is very little fear of over hitting. On the other hand the power level of the hybrid is quite addicting and the spin is possibly better than fullbed of BlackOut. Since I'm a big serve guy I've got to nominate the Black Out / Black Force as my new go to string setup.
skraggle
Professional
Even though I'm really happy with my signature setup, I will give this a try in one of my backup sticks next time I restring. Thanks for the update!
Karma Tennis
Legend
@tennisBIEST, Thank You for the great update.
Just remind me again, you are using 1.24mm Black Force? Can I also ask, what court surface are you testing / playing this combo on?
I have a reel of Mantis Comfort Poly 1.27 which I'm thinking of testing in the crosses with BO mains. The Mantis CP is a very very slick Poly and probably less powerful than the thinner Black Force string options (but probably more powerful than BO). I think I will try that first before I leap into Black Force. A CP test might be a good indicator as to whether to try 1.24 or 1.19 Black Force later on.
tennisBIEST
Professional
I'm using the 1.24 Black Force. See the thing that I love about Black Out is its muted low powered spin potential. Ive tried other polys in the crosses but Black Force just seems to be a really nice fit for Black Out. Black Force is obviously more powerful but it's still somewhat muted and doesn't get all bouncey like some polys. Funny thing is that we all know that Black Out is a copy of Tecnifbre Black Code and although I haven't hit with Black Code 4S Im thinking this may be a poor mans version of Black Code 4S
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ckhirnigs113
Rookie
What's the best Pro's Pro poly to cross with natural gut? I'm looking for the slickest cross to promote snap back of the mains. I also feel tension maintenance is important. From reading this thread and a few others, I'm leaning towards Black Force, Intense Heat, Red Devil, or Concept.
Anybody tried any of these (or other) PP polys in a gut/poly hybrid? I bought two used Ai98 racquets strung with VS Touch 1.30/RPM Blast 1.30 and I really like the setup, but I'd prefer a much cheaper cross string.
Anybody tried any of these (or other) PP polys in a gut/poly hybrid? I bought two used Ai98 racquets strung with VS Touch 1.30/RPM Blast 1.30 and I really like the setup, but I'd prefer a much cheaper cross string.
Concept holds tension the best of the polys I have used. Black force is very slick.
Help him @SpinToWin
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
I wouldn't recommend Red Devil or Intense Heat as a cross personally. Black Force and Concept are the better options.
ckhirnigs113
Rookie
Thanks for the info. My understanding is Black Force will be slicker and Concept will likely have better tension maintenance. I'll be using thick gauge natural gut (16 or 15L) so what is the best gauge cross to go with? I was thinking no thinner than 1.24.
ckhirnigs113
Rookie
Any gauge recommendations in Concept or Black Force? I read someone really liked Concept 1.28 compared to thinner options.
Lukhas
Legend
If I can bring myself to cut V-Star out of my frame, I'll start playing with Red Devil 1.19mm. But more importantly, I tried to search the thread about that and the comparisons between the twos weren't quite explicit enough for my thick skull: Vendetta or Nano Vendetta in 1.25mm and in gey? I gotta pick up one of the twos in an order to have free shipping , and I really don't know which one. I suppose I'm searching for liveliness, crispness and great pocketing, something of a different flavour to Red Devil.
, and I really don't know which one. I suppose I'm searching for liveliness, crispness and great pocketing, something of a different flavour to Red Devil.
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Muppet
Legend
Red Devil 1.19 is a very nice string. I strung it in a full bed @51/50 in my sig racquet. It feels a lot like Mosquito Bite red, except a little less dead and it doesn't last as long. It's very close though. I made the mistake of getting the 1.24 reel based on liking the 1.19. I thought it would have better control, but it's just a little mushier and lower powered. A reel of Mosquito Bite can be gotten for just $99.90, so now I'm struggling with whether or not to pull the trigger on that. First I'll check to see if my reel of Black Force 1.14 will suffice.If I can bring myself to cut V-Star out of my frame, I'll start playing with Red Devil 1.19mm. But more importantly, I tried to search the thread about that and the comparisons between the twos weren't quite explicit enough for my thick skull: Vendetta or Nano Vendetta in 1.25mm and in gey? I gotta pick up one of the twos in an order to have free shipping
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I have used 1.28mm and 1.33 mm. They play very similarly, but the 1.28 feels great, nice and crisp and both are quite comfortable. If you want a bit more durability go with the 1.33. I have also read the thinner gauges are much stiffer. Best string from pro's pro in my experience and the best playability duration of their polys (although Pro's Pro plus power is apparently better at holding tension???)
skraggle
Professional
Yeah, P!us Power holds tension decently in addition to having really nice playing characteristics. A full bed at low tension in my Radicals is pretty much ideal.
Is it similar to Signum Pro poly plasma? That string felt quite dull to me.
skraggle
Professional
I haven't tried SPPP, but have heard that they do play similarly. It is a bit thuddy, but I've grown to really like that feel. It pockets really well and is very predictable. I really feel like I can dial up and down on power and spin as needed with confidence. It might be a mental thing, but I only like it in a full bed in my IGs.
Cool, will have to try it.
ckhirnigs113
Rookie
Thanks for the info!
Lukhas
Legend
If I can bring myself to cut V-Star out of my frame, I'll start playing with Red Devil 1.19mm. But more importantly, I tried to search the thread about that and the comparisons between the twos weren't quite explicit enough for my thick skull: Vendetta or Nano Vendetta in 1.25mm and in gey? I gotta pick up one of the twos in an order to have free shipping
Oh well, I picked up a set of Plus Power instead. See ya in 2 or 3 months when I actually try it.
pro's pro RHS and pro's pro Teknik.
tennisBIEST
Professional
Hey just playtested the new PP HEXASPIN 1.25 LIME! I was hoping it played like Head Lynx and I was not disappointed! Has to be one of the easiest polys to string. The string exhibits zero bird nesting. Lays straight just like a Syn Gut. Plays more dead than lively and has a tad better than spin than Blackout. Strung it the same tension as my Blackout 50/48. I may even drop it to lower. Stretches very little on the drop weight machine and was a breeze to string. Has some nice grab on the ball like BO but better power. Better feel than BO and has notches very little in the 1.5 hour rally/set play. Not my best showing today...first day on clay and been playing a lot and have that dead arm feel. Other than that I really like this string....has potential. BO is the gold standard but this is another quality string from PP. Oh and I loooove the color!
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tennisBIEST
Professional
Is that what they're calling "NEON YELLOW"?
