Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Federer is the consummate insider with opinions so white bread they make white bread look like Schwartzbrot.
Are you going to keep repeating this new theme with different kinds of bread ? "Nuanced repetition", is that it ?
Federer on Sharapova ban
- Thread starter Maestroesque
- Start date
Are you going to keep repeating this new theme with different kinds of bread ? "Nuanced repetition", is that it ?
I used to love track and field. Watched all their events etc. And then I got tired of all the doping scandals. Athletes I liked like Gatlin, Lashawn Merritt, Gay. Then Campbell-Brown, Asafa Powell.
I got tired watching them and wondering whether they were doping or not. I'm just praying that Alyson Felix is never caught doping since I'd be totally crushed. Gay was a very big disappointment. I think he just couldn't deal with Bolt's success.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
I quit watching a long time ago with all the scandals. I can understand your thoughts about Felix
Now I have been hearing that even the Kenyans are suspect. I'd be crushed if the Ethiopians are caught doping (I know there are a couple names in the Meldonium list!) since I've been a long time fan of Haile and Bekele. I just hope they are clean.
I quit watching a long time ago with all the scandals. I can understand your thoughts about Felix
Now I have been hearing that even the Kenyans are suspect. I'd be crushed if the Ethiopians are caught doping (I know there are a couple names in the Meldonium list!) since I've been a long time fan of Haile and Bekele. I just hope they are clean.
The sport is rife with doping. I liked Bekele and Dibaba. Those Kenyans are something else though. It's a shame though, what's happening.
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
Sure it may.
Rule 10.4 she conceded would not apply.
That leaves Rule 10.5. for a potential reduction from 2 years.
From the decision:
Paragraph 78 "Article 10.5 requires consideration of the player's moral fault, judged against the necessarily strict standards set by the requirement for utmost caution"
Paragraph 90 "On the findings of fact set out above the player cannot prove that she exercised any degree of diligence, let alone utmost caution, to ensure that her ingestion of Mildronate did not constitute a contravention. To the contrary her concealment from the anti-doping authorities and her team of the fact that she was regularly using Mildronate in competition for performance enhancement was a very serious breach of her duty to comply with the rules."
This part merits repeating. THE PLAYER CANNOT PROVE SHE EXERCISED ANY DEGREE OF DILIGENCE, LET ALONE UTMOST CAUTION"
Rule 10.5 doesn't help Pova who is at best grossly negligent.
If she is to get it down -- and I don't see any basis in the rules for it -- she better hope CAS disagrees with the tribunal's assumption in para. 101 "that the WADA Code, in particular in allowing for reductions of sanction on grounds of lack of intent and lack of any or significant fault, does properly reflect the principle of proportionality." ( I made this point elsewhere but I think you killed the thread.
)
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
You've spent several years playing with your poo in the world's longest thread devoted to excretion rates of the non-Meldonium kind.
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
No, it won't.
In case the winner is proved to have doped the tournaments that he won remains without a winner.
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dr325i
G.O.A.T.
And you are so sure about that because.....??
She is a **** player and a doper but I would smash her back doors in all night long every night. No wonder dimitrov had weak legs for so long !For such tasks Fed sends his winkman:
No! The jealousy toward Nadal and djokovic knows no bounds by certain members of players fanbases.
There is no suspicion over Nadal or djokovic by anyone who matters .
Tennis_Hands
Banned
When the morally bankrupt pseudo-intellectuals use all their knowledge to spin it and defend doping for whatever other purpose they have on their agenda, you know that the society is in deep ****.
Federer comes from a society that does not tolerate such things, so even though he was a kind of diplomatic, he still wanted to make a statement about the zero tolerance against doping.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
What a load of sanctimonious crud!
'Zero tolerance' is a doctrine responsible for mass incarceration, but Federer is too stupid to know that.
And Donald Trump is not the product of pseudo-intellectualism and he's going to be Combover-in Chief.
So the deep poo is on your hands, mr hands.
'Zero tolerance' is a doctrine responsible for mass incarceration, but Federer is too stupid to know that.
And Donald Trump is not the product of pseudo-intellectualism and he's going to be Combover-in Chief.
So the deep poo is on your hands, mr hands.
When the morally bankrupt pseudo-intellectuals use all their knowledge to spin it and defend doping for whatever other purpose they have on their agenda, you know that the society is in deep ****.
Federer comes from a society that does not tolerate such things, so even though he was a kind of diplomatic, he still wanted to make a statement about the zero tolerance against doping.
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
It is not the doctrine that determines what is being done.
Doctrines were formulated and overruled by the same subjects, if their interests dicatated that. Too bad that you don't know that.
You find a resemblance between yourself and Trump?
I find that very fitting.
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
What about all those athletes who are ahead of the testers, who take drugs specifically created as PED's, then when those drugs are added to the list a few years later, move to a new drug till the testers ban it. And so on.
This isn't about cough syrup or coffee or tea. I think it makes perfect sense to catch people who were ahead of the system. I presume such people do not declare what they are taking. Obviously, the testers will take into account specific cases where people have declared a condition and that they were on medication (which later got banned) for a specific period.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Is this supposed to make any sense? I can't see any.
It is not the doctrine that determines what is being done.
Doctrines were formulated and overruled by the same subjects, if their interests dicatated that. Too bad that you don't know that.
You find a resemblance between yourself and Trump?
I find that very fitting.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
But isn't Federer planning to play mixed doubles with Hingis in the olympic games. Seems like double standards to me.
dudeski said,
Like the use of a hypobaric chamber for example?
https://www.healthstatus.com/health_blog/sleep-2/in-home-hypobaric-chamber-or-alti
Tennis_Hands
Banned
dudeski
Hall of Fame
Testing 10 year old samples will uncover all kinds of banned substances like EPO that were banned 10 years ago but 10 year old testing technology couldn't detect them.
Tennisanity
Legend
Federer is not stupid. He's very vocal about drug use, no one who is so smart would be dumb enough to be so vocal and risk being the most ridiculed guy in history. Look at Lance Armstrong. Absolutely ridiculous man.
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
I agree with Federer here. I'd like to see WADA appeal and try to hit Maria with a 4 year ban. These "medical symptoms" are bogus. And the company that produces Meldonium seems to think it could enhance performance, as described in a NY Times Article:
"On its website, Grindeks, the Latvian company that is the main supplier of the drug, said that in addition to its use for cardiovascular disease, the medication was used “for the improvement of work capacity of healthy people at physical and mental overloads and during rehabilitation period.” it's no coincidence that 7 other Russian athletes were caught with it in their systems the week Sharapova was.
"On its website, Grindeks, the Latvian company that is the main supplier of the drug, said that in addition to its use for cardiovascular disease, the medication was used “for the improvement of work capacity of healthy people at physical and mental overloads and during rehabilitation period.” it's no coincidence that 7 other Russian athletes were caught with it in their systems the week Sharapova was.
Your suggestion is without merit.
WADA does not impose a ban, the ITF does.
And unless further evidence is found, the ITF cannot increase its suspension period arbitrarily.
And it has nothing to do with Federer or what you would like to see.
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
I'm no expert on the organizations involved. But if Sharapova can appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, so can the ITF. They went for a 4 year ban.
And I'm saying I agree with Federer that whether intentional or not, Sharapova should have known better. Look at the list of banned substances, and don't take them. Plain and simple.
You cannot appeal what you yourself have done, unless new evidence comes up. That is how these things work.
And if they increase the ban, it is not an "appeal." Appeal system is for existing judgments, not an endless opportunity to file more and more charges.
Yeah when the list is buried with 4 levels of email links and uses the medical name, not the name under which it is sold.
Easy to feel good about yourself when judging people, but when the same thing happens to you, you will claim it was a technicality and the information was not properly disseminated. Not to mention that the banning itself seems to have been on flimsy grounds.
When there is an overwhelming bias in favor of an institution, laws and rules lose their meaning. It becomes the duty of a judge or jury to restore sanity. Otherwise every profession could require an insane amount of work of an individual just to be eligible to earn a living.
I don't understand all the hoopla over this - FED is 100% right - it can't be more straight forward - you know what you are taking into your body and why.
If you are a sportsman (woman) and have to follow rules you should monitor if what you are taking is on the ban list - its very simple. Everything else is BS
If you are a sportsman (woman) and have to follow rules you should monitor if what you are taking is on the ban list - its very simple. Everything else is BS
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
You have no idea what you are talking about here. The ITF SOUGHT A FOUR YEAR SUSPENSION. The independent tribunal reduced that to two years. While Sharapova has a right to appeal, so do the ITA and WADA.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-doping-tennis-sharapova-idUSKCN0YU1W3
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
By that logic you should be able to drive whatever speed you want, and if you get caught it isn't your fault because the sign was too hard to read.
I was about to mention that example.
Just imagine how drivers would react to having their licenses suspended for 2 years every time they exceeded the speed limit by 0.1 mph. That is what you are asking of tennis players. Or being asked to notify the DMV of your location every moment of your life so that they can conduct blood alcohol tests at random. I mean, what is more important to society: preventing deaths and injuries due to drunk driving or preventing Sharapova from possibly (but unproven) being able to last one more set? Don't you agree that you as a driver is a far greater possible menace to society and should be tested for alcohol all the time?
Heck, red light cameras had to be disabled here because drivers railed against them, using many different excuses.
When it comes to others behavior, people love burdensome laws.
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
The company that manufactures the drug has openly said it can be used in a performance-enhancing capacity. It is meant to be used for 4-6 weeks, again according to the company that MAKES IT. So why else would Sharapova use it for a period 86 TIMES the intended period of use?
We aren't talking about testing. We're talking about how to punish someone that was caught with a banned substance. It is part of the conditions of employment for a pro athlete to be drug tested, if you don't like that, do something else with your life. As far as your example, police can use DUI checkpoints whenever and wherever they want, and we are obliged to stop and submit to whatever tests necessary. How they enact those measures is their prerogative, but if a driver is caught it's on them, and they have to own the consequences.
Cup8489
G.O.A.T.
For such tasks Fed sends his winkman:
Is this real? Did she fully check him out? haha
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
No coincidence at all. They were a pack of cheaters, with all knowing the benefit of the drug.
Fail arguments.
It has been clarified repeatedly that one course is for 4 to 6 weeks, and can be repeated as needed.
Secondly, if a drug is not banned, then your argument does not apply for the previous 85 times, and how many times one takes it is not anyone's business. It is not a retroactive ban.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Have I ever given you my argument against strict enforcement of the foot fault rule at the rec level?
Have I ever given you my argument against strict enforcement of the foot fault rule at the rec level?
That is not intrusion into personal life, but enforcement of a rule of the game. You should understand the difference.
From another thread:
Nature, the most respected science journal on the planet, on WADA's testing methods:
Nature believes that accepting 'legal limits' of specific metabolites without such rigorous verification goes against the foundational standards of modern science, and results in an arbitrary test for which the rate of false positives and false negatives can never be known. By leaving these rates unknown, and by not publishing and opening to broader scientific scrutiny the methods by which testing labs engage in study, it is Nature's view that the anti-doping authorities have fostered a sporting culture of suspicion, secrecy and fear.
Federer seems to be a guy with limited mental capabilities and a deeply prejudiced mind which is unable to appreciate shades of gray. Not surprising given that most top players like him are quite uneducated.
Nature, the most respected science journal on the planet, on WADA's testing methods:
Nature believes that accepting 'legal limits' of specific metabolites without such rigorous verification goes against the foundational standards of modern science, and results in an arbitrary test for which the rate of false positives and false negatives can never be known. By leaving these rates unknown, and by not publishing and opening to broader scientific scrutiny the methods by which testing labs engage in study, it is Nature's view that the anti-doping authorities have fostered a sporting culture of suspicion, secrecy and fear.
Federer seems to be a guy with limited mental capabilities and a deeply prejudiced mind which is unable to appreciate shades of gray. Not surprising given that most top players like him are quite uneducated.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
So by your logic, if the suspension could be enforced without "intrusion into personal life" (not clear on what that means), then the suspension would be justified?
I thought your argument was something else entirely.
W
Well, imho it doesn't matter what Fed thinks. So far, he's just a tennis player. A good one, but just a tennis player.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
Reported
My questions are broad-ranging and cannot be confined into small boxes. Look at the big picture: "the anti-doping authorities have fostered a sporting culture of suspicion, secrecy and fear."
Always look at intent rather than literal wording. Intent is what matters. It tells the true story which isolated facts cannot.
Remember how he used to call Nadal 1-dimensional before he started losing to him every time and then decided to strike a bromance with him? He always seems to need to be on top above others, in tennis and in stature. Unfortunately, wearing Rolex watches and driving Mercedes cars is not enough to cultivate sophistication in thinking.
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
This is why he goes to Cicis and not law school.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Djokovic or Nadal would do the trick.
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