how do you find time to study Engineering or Premed if you play college D1 tennis?

B

borna coric

Semi-Pro
I work for an IT company of about 2000 people. There are 10 people here that played D1 tennis from the Big 10, Pac-12, ACC, etc... Not a single one of them majored in either pre-med, Engineering or Computer Sciences in college. Their majors were: Economics, physiology, Sports management, International relations; I've asked each of them why they didn't major in pre-med or engineering and all of their responses were "I simply did not have time to do that. I had to practice tennis at least 4 hours every day and we played against other Universities in the conference on weekends. It was like having two full-time jobs. It is almost impossible to major in Engineering or Pre-med."

I am sure there are D1 tennis athletes that go on to become engineers and doctors but those are very few. Their advice to me if your kid want to major in premed or engineering, either go to a D3 school or just play tennis for fun.

These 10 people are now doing project management work for the company and they make 50% less than our engineers and software developers.

anyone care to comment?
 
esgee48

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Lab work and Home Work. Both eat up all you available time both before and after classes. For each unit in a course, you had to spend 1 hour per week in the classroom and maybe 4-6 hours extra. Labs were 3 hours per unit plus another 3 hours outside. And it gets harder as you complete more courses because the assumption is what you learned last quarter has been absorbed. {BIG NOT!!!} I was a Chemical Engineering Major (have the degree) and I chose education over tennis. Engineering mathematics is relatively easy. Chemical Kenetics and beyond is not. Gets into the realm of Advanced Physics [way beyond ordinary Intro to Physics.]

FWIW, periodically a group of very advanced level players would invade our local courts from UCSF. They would be then disappear after 1-2 years. They are either Pre Med or Interns or real MDs.
 
ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Really dedicated time management. My son’s coach is head of a D1 program and he has his players about 20 hours a week for tennis. The rest of their time is spent how they need. Still difficult in med when you get to intern time.


Probably posting from the court between sets.
 
B

borna coric

Semi-Pro
ChaelAZ said:
Really dedicated time management. My son’s coach is head of a D1 program and he has his players about 20 hours a week for tennis. The rest of their time is spent how they need. Still difficult in med when you get to intern time.
Probably posting from the court between sets.
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You need 120 credits to graduate. That means taking 5 classes of 3 credits per class if you want to graduate in 4 years. For engineering or premed major, one is expected to spend at least 4 to 5 hours for each credit per week in addition to 15 hours of class time. You're looking at 90 hours a week. If you have to practice 20 hours a week for tennis, that does not include tournament time and physical training time, I don't think the average Joe can play tennis and be in engineering or premed major, unless he is not the average Joe. He simply just run out of time.

Just checked my Penn State alma mater and almost everyone in the roster is either in liberal arts or business major
 
J

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Consider GA Tech-probably 80% +of non athletes major in engineering or computer science. However for the tennis team, usually just 1 guy on the tennis team majors in industrial engineering and the rest are mostly business majors with maybe one communications major at one of the top engineering universities in the nation. If a tennis player is serious about a STEM major, he/she is probably going to play for a D3 school or a highly selective academic D1 that is not a Power program.
Not only would players on ranked Power teams not have time for labs and practice, but also the players on the top teams were probably virtually schooled blue chips so it is unlikely they had the most rigorous background in AP sciences... There are D1 tennis players that do major in premed, chemistry, etc but they are usually at non Power schools where the coach will work with them as far as schedule.
 
J

justinmadison

Semi-Pro
It is definitely difficult but not impossible.

My son plays for a ranked D1 school. He is a senior and will graduate in 4 years with a BSCS. He has 12 hours left for his final semester. Two other guys on the team are seniors and will graduate this year with BSCS majors.

When he was visiting schools deciding where to go he talked with coaches about his major. Some were not supportive of a STEM degree. Part of the reason he went where he did is the coach there thought CS was a great major.
 
Imago

Imago

Hall of Fame
justinmadison said:
It is definitely difficult but not impossible.

My son plays for a ranked D1 school. He is a senior and will graduate in 4 years with a BSCS. He has 12 hours left for his final semester. Two other guys on the team are seniors and will graduate this year with BSCS majors.

When he was visiting schools deciding where to go he talked with coaches about his major. Some were not supportive of a STEM degree. Part of the reason he went where he did is the coach there thought CS was a great major.
Click to expand...

Did the coach hold a mustard degree in CS?

If you dedicate your life to tennis you must forget about education...
 
ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
borna coric said:
You need 120 credits to graduate. That means taking 5 classes of 3 credits per class if you want to graduate in 4 years. For engineering or premed major, one is expected to spend at least 4 to 5 hours for each credit per week in addition to 15 hours of class time. You're looking at 90 hours a week. If you have to practice 20 hours a week for tennis, that does not include tournament time and physical training time, I don't think the average Joe can play tennis and be in engineering or premed major, unless he is not the average Joe. He simply just run out of time.
Click to expand...

I work in education and at a college and know that routine well. I often work with college athletes and it is all the same where they have to manage their time between sports commitments, school aspirations, and trying to succeed in both. While a majority do not work on degrees in technical areas, there are plenty that do and succeed. Athletes playing D1 already have a high level of skill and aptitude in their sport so training is very different. Talking with my son's coach, they drill for improved physical performance and situational play (mental toughness) more than anything, and much of the time he has them is travel and matches. Most the players work on school work during that time as well.

So I agree that it isn't the norm, but it certainly is not impossible or that out of the ordinary. There are some pretty focused and dedicated people out there doing all kinds of things like that, and not just with sports but working full time, managing kids and family, and going to school full time. My wife is currently finishing her BS degree, working full time in the dental industry and teaches two classes at a college. My son is in practice or play 3-4 times a week for tennis (about 10 hours), is doing STEM work in high school, will graduate early and already has college credits with some decent prospects for tennis or academic scholarship. I see plenty of focused and dynamic people doing the same.

I think people aim low and hit their targets often.
 
B

borna coric

Semi-Pro
ChaelAZ said:
I work in education and at a college and know that routine well. I often work with college athletes and it is all the same where they have to manage their time between sports commitments, school aspirations, and trying to succeed in both. While a majority do not work on degrees in technical areas, there are plenty that do and succeed. Athletes playing D1 already have a high level of skill and aptitude in their sport so training is very different. Talking with my son's coach, they drill for improved physical performance and situational play (mental toughness) more than anything, and much of the time he has them is travel and matches. Most the players work on school work during that time as well.

So I agree that it isn't the norm, but it certainly is not impossible or that out of the ordinary. There are some pretty focused and dedicated people out there doing all kinds of things like that, and not just with sports but working full time, managing kids and family, and going to school full time. My wife is currently finishing her BS degree, working full time in the dental industry and teaches two classes at a college. My son is in practice or play 3-4 times a week for tennis (about 10 hours), is doing STEM work in high school, will graduate early and already has college credits with some decent prospects for tennis or academic scholarship. I see plenty of focused and dynamic people doing the same.

I think people aim low and hit their targets often.
Click to expand...

Your wife and son muct be very smart and hard workers. They will succeed under any circumstances.

However, there is one issue that I don't agree with you. STEM work in high school is not like college STEM. If you're going to play D1 tennis, for example, at Ohio State or Penn State, I just can't see how you can succeed in Engineering and be a competitive tennis player.

I'll take myself as an example, I majored in Mechanical Engineering in college I graduated in 4 years, including taking classes in the 3 summers. I easily spent at least 80 hours a week to study outside of the class room just to get my head above water. I just can't see how one can become a starter at D1 schools like Ohio State or Penn State can become an engineer with good grade.

This article about Josh Rosen said it all: http://beta.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-josh-rosen-plaschke-20170810-story.html
 
ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
borna coric said:
I just can't see how you can succeed in Engineering and be a competitive tennis player.
Click to expand...

I get ya. Tons of Yoda style words of wisdom out there, but I'll just bow out with this great quote attributed to Henry Ford.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right.”

All the best!
 
S

strike1

New User
I think it is very tough to try to do any major requiring labs. This weekend my son's D1 team had its last fall tournament. The boys were at the courts 10 hours a day, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. They don't work while they are there, because if they are not playing themselves, they are cheering on their teammates. They were all in the middle of midterms, so they would leave the courts, see the trainers, shower, eat and then go try to get in a little work before going to sleep and starting over the next day. I'll never forget when my son was doing his official visits, he went to visit an Ivy, and he stayed with one boy who was at the time pre med. He took my son to dinner and then went to study for a couple of hours before going to sleep -- and then woke up at 3 am to study more before he had to be at the courts at 7 am for warm up for their match that day! And that was a Saturday night! I wonder whether that player made it work and stayed pre med, but it sounded incredibly hard to manage. Luckily my son always wanted to study math so didn't have to make those choices.
 
I

illinoisportsfan

Rookie
I played tennis in college with a guy who was a Chemistry major. His schedule was insane. He would schedule all of his classes in the afternoon before practice, study and do labs all night and then get a little sleep in the morning. I guess he got his crazy overachieving genes from his dad. His dad was the superintendent of a pretty large school district in the area and would attend most of our matches in a three-piece suit and stand the whole time by his son's court.

College tennis players miss more class than athletes in any other sport besides baseball, so doing really demanding majors is hard. You're constantly studying in vans and hotels and taking tests early or making them up when you come back from a trip. Most of our duel matches were on Tuesdays and Thursdays during the week so I was always missing the same classes. It was not uncommon for me to miss the same class three times in a row.
 
S

slee83

New User
It's a good point. There will definitely be those incredibly high achieving kids who can play a D1 sport AND do very well academically in college, but my guess is that most D1 players will have a tough time, particularly with those majors. For those that are pre-med, remember that getting into a good medical school is extremely important for their careers, so that means not just surviving with the basic credits for graduation, but getting a high GPA in college, high test scores in your MCATs, etc. You're not going to get recruited to a med school because you are a D1 athlete the same way a college might recruit you.
 
B

borna coric

Semi-Pro
illinoisportsfan said:
I played tennis in college with a guy who was a Chemistry major. His schedule was insane. He would schedule all of his classes in the afternoon before practice, study and do labs all night and then get a little sleep in the morning. I guess he got his crazy overachieving genes from his dad. His dad was the superintendent of a pretty large school district in the area and would attend most of our matches in a three-piece suit and stand the whole time by his son's court.

College tennis players miss more class than athletes in any other sport besides baseball, so doing really demanding majors is hard. You're constantly studying in vans and hotels and taking tests early or making them up when you come back from a trip. Most of our duel matches were on Tuesdays and Thursdays during the week so I was always missing the same classes. It was not uncommon for me to miss the same class three times in a row.
Click to expand...

Now that I am working as a software developer in an IT industry, I know how hard it can be. Anyone who majors in Engineering or Premed and also starts on D1 college team REALLY get my respect !!!!
 
S

Shankadelic

Rookie
I finished with a EE degree while playing tennis for a smaller DI school (years ago, way before online classes were available). Not going to sugarcoated, it was tough. Dividing your time between academics, playing a sport, and just being a kid at college was not easy nor was it broken up into convenient blocks of time. Going to bail on Tuesday classes and afternoon labs to play in a tennis match three hour away for your school? Or bail on your team and go to classes/labs? If a top 7-9 player on your team, that decision is pretty much made for you, regardless of your major. Ultimately, one or two of those balls are going to get dropped at some point. In my case, I went to summer school every year to stay on track. Should I have dropped tennis and focus on academics, yes probably, especially since I knew I didn't have a future playing tennis for money. However, I thoroughly enjoyed college tennis so I kept playing.

borna coric said:
I am sure there are D1 tennis athletes that go on to become engineers and doctors but those are very few. Their advice to me if your kid want to major in premed or engineering, either go to a D3 school or just play tennis for fun.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter if you are playing a D1/2/3, NAIA, or JUCO, those coaches are expecting ample amount of time (20+ hours in some cases) from you if you are committing to play for them. If this doesn't sound reasonable or doable, then one should consider club tennis instead. My team was not good at all but we still spent just as much time on the court as a team from a Power 5 conference did.
 
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X

Xmantennis

New User
You can certainly major in engineering or pre-med at certain Universities. I know this is possible at all of the Patriot League schools who offer these majors.
 
I

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
esgee48 said:
Lab work and Home Work. Both eat up all you available time both before and after classes. For each unit in a course, you had to spend 1 hour per week in the classroom and maybe 4-6 hours extra. Labs were 3 hours per unit plus another 3 hours outside. And it gets harder as you complete more courses because the assumption is what you learned last quarter has been absorbed. {BIG NOT!!!} I was a Chemical Engineering Major (have the degree) and I chose education over tennis. Engineering mathematics is relatively easy. Chemical Kenetics and beyond is not. Gets into the realm of Advanced Physics [way beyond ordinary Intro to Physics.]

FWIW, periodically a group of very advanced level players would invade our local courts from UCSF. They would be then disappear after 1-2 years. They are either Pre Med or Interns or real MDs.
Click to expand...
im in the premed path, even intro bio courses are super study intensive, i can recite glycolosis, the citric acid cycle and all forms of cell respiration in plants. I learned that all for 1 test.
 
B

borna coric

Semi-Pro
Shankadelic said:
I finished with a EE degree while playing tennis for a smaller DI school (years ago, way before online classes were available). Not going to sugarcoated, it was tough. Dividing your time between academics, playing a sport, and just being a kid at college was not easy nor was it broken up into convenient blocks of time. Going to bail on Tuesday classes and afternoon labs to play in a tennis match three hour away for your school? Or bail on your team and go to classes/labs? If a top 7-9 player on your team, that decision is pretty much made for you, regardless of your major. Ultimately, one or two of those balls are going to get dropped at some point. In my case, I went to summer school every year to stay on track. Should I have dropped tennis and focus on academics, yes probably, especially since I knew I didn't have a future playing tennis for money. However, I thoroughly enjoyed college tennis so I kept playing.


Doesn't matter if you are playing a D1/2/3, NAIA, or JUCO, those coaches are expecting ample amount of time (20+ hours in some cases) from you if you are committing to play for them. If this doesn't sound reasonable or doable, then one should consider club tennis instead. My team was not good at all but we still spent just as much time on the court as a team from a Power 5 conference did.
Click to expand...

if you don't mind, did you graduate with honors in EE or just average in the pack? Did you also go on to obtain a Master degree and beyond?

The reason I asked is because it is very hard to get into a good Master or Ph.D. program in engineering like Georgia Tech or Carnegie Mellon with a mediocre grade.
 
R

RVAtennisaddict

Professional
Any college sport is hard w/demanding class/major. But can be done. I have several friends who played #1/2 at good D1 schools who were in my medical school class. I played D3 football. It is all about commitment.

And to be honest, college was WAY easier than medical school even with the sport.
 
S

Shankadelic

Rookie
borna coric said:
if you don't mind, did you graduate with honors in EE or just average in the pack? Did you also go on to obtain a Master degree and beyond?

The reason I asked is because it is very hard to get into a good Master or Ph.D. program in engineering like Georgia Tech or Carnegie Mellon with a mediocre grade.
Click to expand...
Don't mind at all, grab some popcorn while you read.

I did not graduate with honors overall as I did not start off well. In hindsight, should have not attempted to take a large number of hours my first year (again, long time ago but I am pretty sure I took 18 hours both semesters) so I spent the rest of the time climbing the grade scale to finish with a very low B average. I should have taken <14 hours to start with and add hours as I adjusted to being a student-athlete. I did that years following, which explains why I went to summer school.

I did not go for a second degree after I finished. I start working in an engineering position immediately after graduation that took me around the world for a while, then got married, then a couple of kids, and then picked up tennis again after not touching a racquet since my last match in college (18 year gap). Needless to say, aspirations of getting a 2nd degree fell by the wayside. Way more than you probably wanted to know but now you know some things about me!
 
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C

chrisb

Professional
borna coric said:
I work for an IT company of about 2000 people. There are 10 people here that played D1 tennis from the Big 10, Pac-12, ACC, etc... Not a single one of them majored in either pre-med, Engineering or Computer Sciences in college. Their majors were: Economics, physiology, Sports management, International relations; I've asked each of them why they didn't major in pre-med or engineering and all of their responses were "I simply did not have time to do that. I had to practice tennis at least 4 hours every day and we played against other Universities in the conference on weekends. It was like having two full-time jobs. It is almost impossible to major in Engineering or Pre-med."

I am sure there are D1 tennis athletes that go on to become engineers and doctors but those are very few. Their advice to me if your kid want to major in premed or engineering, either go to a D3 school or just play tennis for fun.

These 10 people are now doing project management work for the company and they make 50% less than our engineers and software developers.

anyone care to comment?
Click to expand...
You only take the scholly if you are 1. planning to be a pro, or 2 have no funding for college (try not to go on loans) If you were on scholly they own you. Go to a D3 school and major in a real major (pre med is not a major, but a sequence of several courses you must take) or go to a state school or go 2 years juco and than state school
 
D

Dave Mc

Rookie
Both of my sons were mechanical engineering graduates, one played D-II tennis, other played D-I tennis, both were nationally ranked programs. Neither boy was a genius, I can promise you, but they both worked the system the best they could to succeed at both academics and athletics. The formula seemed to be:
1) take classes every summer to lighten spring/fall semesters
2) get athletic adviser to re-arrange your class schedule to better fit athletics
3) inform professors just before any athletic events that will cause missed class so they can provide lecture material, makeup quiz, makeup test, etc.
4) report uncooperative professors to the dean, coach, and the athletic director to get situation resolved immediately
5) bring study materials while traveling for athletics
6) make friends with non-athletes in classes in order to get missed class materials
7) form study groups with teammates and/or classmates having same major
8) arrange alternate workout schedules with teammates having same academic conflicts
9) remember that once you graduate, your multi-tasking experience could give you an early advantage, especially if hiring managers are aware of and appreciate what you've accomplished!
 
S

skhong248

New User
John Urschel graduated magna cum laude (4.0) in less than 3 years and was pursuing a Masters in applied math all while playing for Penn State's football program (All Academic). As an NFL Pro - he completed his PhD ifrom MIT in the off-season. His specialties include discrete Schrödinger operators, high dimensional data compression, algebraic multigrid and Voronoi diagrams.
If you're motivated and undeterred - you will find the time and make the grades.
 
C

chrisb

Professional
skhong248 said:
John Urschel graduated magna cum laude (4.0) in less than 3 years and was pursuing a Masters in applied math all while playing for Penn State's football program (All Academic). As an NFL Pro - he completed his PhD ifrom MIT in the off-season. His specialties include discrete Schrödinger operators, high dimensional data compression, algebraic multigrid and Voronoi diagrams.
If you're motivated and undeterred - you will find the time and make the grades.
Click to expand...
he has to be an exceptional student to do that as well as a pretty good O line player. That is one out of how many?
 
Nostradamus

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
esgee48 said:
Lab work and Home Work. Both eat up all you available time both before and after classes. For each unit in a course, you had to spend 1 hour per week in the classroom and maybe 4-6 hours extra. Labs were 3 hours per unit plus another 3 hours outside. And it gets harder as you complete more courses because the assumption is what you learned last quarter has been absorbed. {BIG NOT!!!} I was a Chemical Engineering Major (have the degree) and I chose education over tennis. Engineering mathematics is relatively easy. Chemical Kenetics and beyond is not. Gets into the realm of Advanced Physics [way beyond ordinary Intro to Physics.]

FWIW, periodically a group of very advanced level players would invade our local courts from UCSF. They would be then disappear after 1-2 years. They are either Pre Med or Interns or real MDs.
Click to expand...
yes I was surprised calculus involved in engineering was easier than I thought. but they make you take way more than 3 semesters of calculus though, albeit you dont' really need it. P chem and beyond seemed pretty complicated. Quantum mechanics and theoretical physics is difficult but very interesting subject and that gets you going.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Beware of computer science. Unlike classical engineering and science, computer science courses require a lot of programming assignments which can stretch out very long and cause tension if you have bugs, and make planning your life very difficult.
 
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