Does Federer Actually Play With the RF97?

jackcrawford · Nov 17, 2017

Icsa said:
The SW number is very hard to believe when you compare it to:
- his previous racquet specs
- the other players specs
- the way RF is serving
- the way RF is able to simply flick the racquet and create bullet shots. The plow-through.

It smells like conspiracy to me... To sell more RF97A.

It's only hard to believe if you bought into the tinfoilhat crowd nonsense posted by crackpots about SW2, etc. Is it hard to believe he also upped his string tension quite a bit when he changed frames from 90 to 97? Is it also hard to believe he went from 85 to 90 to 97 sq in through the years?

sureshs · Nov 17, 2017

zalive said:
Then you pay attention about what you claim.
From Wilson site:

Pro Staff RF97 Autograph Tennis Racket

Co-designed by Roger Federer, the Pro Staff delivers the pure, classic feel players have come to love but with an all-new uncontaminated design. meticulous in detail and bold in its beauty, the new Pro Staff introduces a whole new dimension of engineered paint finishes and textures with matte black velvet, chrome touches, and laser engraving never before seen in tennis.

About Pro Staff RF97
Roger’s heart and soul lives in the new Pro Staff RF97. Roger worked tirelessly with Wilson designers across the globe to breathe new life into the iconic Pro Staff. Every detail was pored over to create a racket that provides an edge for players bold enough to pick one up and inspires players everywhere to go further than they’ve ever gone before.

I don't see any claim that Roger plays with the same racquet as retail, or similar. All they claim is that Roger helped them design it, the rest are vivid marketing descriptions which say nothing.

Roger may claim he plays with exactly this racquet and that he wanted players to play with his exact specs, but that's what Roger claims. Not Wilson.

I think they did, but even if they didn't, it maybe because of the legal stuff, since customization may be taken to mean that it is a different frame.

zalive · Nov 17, 2017

sureshs said:
I think they did, but even if they didn't, it maybe because of the legal stuff, since customization may be taken to mean that it is a different frame.

Of course it's legal stuff.
We'd then need to inspect all they ever claimed as Wilson and see what it was.
And then see if any claim made by Wilson conflicts with him playing, for example, with a different layup within a same mould.

jmacdaununder2 · Nov 17, 2017

Seinfeld voice: 'The lay up, of course, the lay up; it's a different lay up - how did I miss that?'

BounceHitBounceHit · Nov 17, 2017

sureshs said:
And his RA is not low as claimed but the same as the commercial one

I measured mine on a RDC this afternoon (with gut/poly at 26kg, NO string savers):

364grams
31.5 cm
338 SW
RA 68

I suppose the string savers weigh 2grams ?

[emoji462][emoji471][emoji462]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Lambsscroll · Nov 18, 2017

Right here.

http://www.tenniswarehouse-europe.c...ed_Match_Tennis_Racket/descpageRFF-RFATR.html

PSC85 · Nov 18, 2017

Lambsscroll said:
Right here.

http://www.tenniswarehouse-europe.c...ed_Match_Tennis_Racket/descpageRFF-RFATR.html

Sold out

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tennisreflectslife · Nov 18, 2017

Would have been great if the twistweight was also measured and released. Because according to TWU, there is a big difference between the first(red/black) and second(all black) rf97 as well. Would be great to know the twistweight of the real rf97 federer is using.

dgoran · Nov 18, 2017

After today I want David Goffin’s pro stock blade for $20,000

Lambsscroll · Nov 18, 2017

dgoran said:
After today I want David Goffin’s pro stock blade for $20,000

Tomorrow you will want Dimitrov's.

dgoran · Nov 18, 2017

Lambsscroll said:
Tomorrow you will want Dimitrov's.

Now that would be worth 20k

Povl Carstensen · Nov 19, 2017

dgoran said:
I am natural born skeptic so I have to ask:What is the proof that this is actual racquet that Roger plays matches with?

Sounds like an easy $12350 euros

Well TW is not just some small time operation in this field. To me it seems unlikely and unneeded they would/should run the risk of a shady transaction.

zalive · Nov 19, 2017

Povl Carstensen said:
Well TW is not just some small time operation in this field. To me it seems unlikely and unneeded they would/should run the risk of a shady transaction.

TW runs an honest business completely for what I can tell.
On the other hand, Wilson, I don't trust them least.
If Wilson delivered 'Roger's' racquets to TW...then you understand. In this case TW simply cannot know for sure are those real, all they can do is trust Wilson.
All this really looks like a small Wilson marketing campaign. And clever ones will understand why Wilson would want to do this.

sureshs · Nov 19, 2017

PSC85 said:
Sold out

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Darn I missed by chance to play like Federer.

But now I would rather have Goffin's real racket.

H22 fan · Nov 19, 2017

With that specs TW is trying to make you believe that Fed is actually playing with a retail frame.
I’m not buying that nonsense...

bkfinch · Nov 19, 2017

zalive said:
TW runs an honest business completely for what I can tell.
On the other hand, Wilson, I don't trust them least.
If Wilson delivered 'Roger's' racquets to TW...then you understand. In this case TW simply cannot know for sure are those real, all they can do is trust Wilson.
All this really looks like a small Wilson marketing campaign. And clever ones will understand why Wilson would want to do this.

Would you believe it if I told you the MGR/I is >21 with that spec?

IDK man this seems pretty legit and it's been added to Greg Raven's website as well.

MAX PLY · Nov 19, 2017

Clearly, TW (or perhaps the RF Foundation) can make another tidy sum selling tin foil hats.

PeterFig · Nov 19, 2017

zalive said:
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't carefully read Michelle's words.

Michelle, when you say RF's team, what do you mean? His Wilson team? Or his personal team? Who sent you those racquet(s), folks from Roger's personal team, or Wilson?

TW works with Roger's team on these RF Foundation items directly. Not Wilson.

zalive · Nov 19, 2017

PeterFig said:
TW works with Roger's team on these RF Foundation items directly. Not Wilson.

I didn't know you started to work with TW.

TW Staff · Nov 20, 2017

PeterFig said:
TW works with Roger's team on these RF Foundation items directly. Not Wilson.

Yes, just to clear things up, correct -- we work directly with RF's team -- his agent, his father, his manager, etc., not with Wilson or Nike for this specific gear.

I don't want to ruin the fairytale for you guys, but yes, this is an actual racquet used by Roger at several tournaments -- scuffed up by RF, the RF specific butt cap, RF's string setup, and what we are assuming (waiting for confirmation) are RF's stringing instructions as well.

Just as the rest of his autographed gear we offer is straight from RF's player's bag and from his personal wardrobes. And just how all of the Foundation items come with proof of authenticity, so does this racquet.

Let me know if you have any further questions,

Michelle, TW

TW Staff · Nov 20, 2017

PeterFig said:
TW works with Roger's team on these RF Foundation items directly. Not Wilson.

Yes, just to clear things up, correct -- we work directly with RF's team -- his agent, his father, his manager, etc., not with Wilson or Nike for this specific gear.

I don't want to ruin the fairytale for you guys, but yes, this is an actual racquet used by Roger at several tournaments -- scuffed up by RF, the RF specific butt cap, RF's string setup, and what we are assuming (waiting for confirmation) are RF's stringing instructions as well.

Just as the rest of his autographed gear we offer is straight from RF's player's bag and from his personal wardrobes. And just how all of the Foundation items come with proof of authenticity, so does this racquet.

Let me know if you have any further questions,

Michelle, TW

PeterFig · Nov 20, 2017

TW Staff said:
Yes, just to clear things up, correct -- we work directly with RF's team -- his agent, his father, his manager, etc., not with Wilson or Nike for this specific gear.

I don't want to ruin the fairytale for you guys, but yes, this is an actual racquet used by Roger at several tournaments -- scuffed up by RF, the RF specific butt cap, RF's string setup, and what we are assuming (waiting for confirmation) are RF's stringing instructions as well.

Just as the rest of his autographed gear we offer is straight from RF's player's bag and from his personal wardrobes. And just how all of the Foundation items come with proof of authenticity, so does this racquet.

Let me know if you have any further questions,

Michelle, TW

More importantly Michelle, did you secretly sneak the racquet onto the TW court for a quick hit?

I promise I won't tell anyone if you did.

TW Staff · Nov 20, 2017

PeterFig said:
More importantly Michelle, did you secretly sneak the racquet onto the TW court for a quick hit? I promise I won't tell anyone if you did.

Tempting, very tempting!

But no...but Chris was trying to get me to throw a natural gut hybrid into my frames!

Michelle

TW Staff · Nov 20, 2017

PeterFig said:
More importantly Michelle, did you secretly sneak the racquet onto the TW court for a quick hit? I promise I won't tell anyone if you did.

Tempting, very tempting!

But no...Chris was trying to egg me on to throw a natural gut hybrid into my frames!

Michelle

PeterFig · Nov 20, 2017

TW Staff said:
Tempting, very tempting!

But no...but Chris was trying to get me to throw a natural gut hybrid into my frames!

Michelle

Oh you should do it!!!
That's what I have in my RF97's - Luxilon Gut in mains (56lb) Luxilon Alu Power Feel in crosses (54lb). I'm even RF-geeking out with the powerpads

PS. I'm happy you guys posted the specs of Roger's frame on here. Facts are facts

zalive · Nov 20, 2017

Ok, I give up

I promised to trust TW, so I do.

mr.torrence · Nov 20, 2017

Love it. So the people that have been hating on the RF97 saying it's too harsh, boardy and just too damn stiff because of what the rating is, and that there's no way RF uses this racquet, are all going to use the whole 'buttery smooth' defense now and say they're incredibly plush and hits like a dream...I also wonder if lead tape enthusiasts are going to be ripping off layers of strips off of their unplayable frames and bump them down to a mere 340 sw too?

Nicholas Kakatsis · Nov 20, 2017

I cant remember who posted a while back a comment that RF must have lowered his SW- it was after AO iirc. Nice assumption. That said, the RF racquet had people fighting over 2 things imho and now we can address both: MgR/I and if RF's is the retail customized.

As for 1, MgR/I is not 21 but 21.16. Old school depolarized racquet. It may have been 21 at another era, but this proves MgR/I is not/should not be a constant but a useful tool.

As for 2, i used the avg specs of retail RFA97 on the customization and the RF's targeted ones. Definately, you can get there BUT the place to put the lead is close to the throat. From RF's frame there was no visible lead. And since those specs are apart from the averages, then there is some lead, most likely under the grommets ( since RF's frame SW is higher than the retail RFA). But if this is true, then we are talking about different weight distribution between the two frames. And if this is true then in my playbook, the retail is not RF's racquet. If we saw the lead on RF's racquet at the same place the auto tool suggests, then i would say that he is using a customized retail frame. But we dont and therefore i believe he uses a custom racquet.

Nicholas Kakatsis · Nov 20, 2017

I cant remember who posted a while back a comment that RF must have lowered his SW- it was after AO iirc. Nice assumption. That said, the RF racquet had people fighting over 2 things imho and now we can address both: MgR/I and if RF's is the retail customized.

As for 1, MgR/I is not 21 but 21.16. Old school depolarized racquet. It may have been 21 at another era, but this proves MgR/I is not/should not be a constant but a useful tool.

As for 2, i used the avg specs of retail RFA97 on the customization and the RF's targeted ones. Definately, you can get there BUT the place to put the lead is close to the throat. From RF's frame there was no visible lead. And since those specs are apart from the averages, then there is some lead, most likely under the grommets ( since RF's frame SW is higher than the retail RFA). But if this is true, then we are talking about different weight distribution between the two frames. And if this is true then in my playbook, the retail is not RF's racquet. If we saw the lead on RF's racquet at the same place the auto tool suggests, then i would say that he is using a customized retail frame. But we dont and therefore i believe he uses a custom racquet.

Nicholas Kakatsis · Nov 20, 2017

I cant remember who posted a while back a comment that RF must have lowered his SW- it was after AO iirc. Nice assumption. That said, the RF racquet had people fighting over 2 things imho and now we can address both: MgR/I and if RF's is the retail customized.

As for 1, MgR/I is not 21 but 21.16. Old school depolarized racquet. It may have been 21 at another era, but this proves MgR/I is not/should not be a constant but a useful tool.

As for 2, i used the avg specs of retail RFA97 on the customization and the RF's targeted ones. Definately, you can get there BUT the place to put the lead is close to the throat. From RF's frame there was no visible lead. And since those specs are apart from the averages, then there is some lead, most likely under the grommets ( since RF's frame SW is higher than the retail RFA). But if this is true, then we are talking about different weight distribution between the two frames. And if this is true then in my playbook, the retail is not RF's racquet. If we saw the lead on RF's racquet at the same place the auto tool suggests, then i would say that he is using a customized retail frame. But we dont and therefore i believe he uses a custom racquet.

zalive · Nov 20, 2017

Nicholas Kakatsis said:
I cant remember who posted a while back a comment that RF must have lowered his SW- it was after AO iirc. Nice assumption. That said, the RF racquet had people fighting over 2 things imho and now we can address both: MgR/I and if RF's is the retail customized.

As for 1, MgR/I is not 21 but 21.16. Old school depolarized racquet. It may have been 21 at another era, but this proves MgR/I is not/should not be a constant but a useful tool.

As for 2, i used the avg specs of retail RFA97 on the customization and the RF's targeted ones. Definately, you can get there BUT the place to put the lead is close to the throat. From RF's frame there was no visible lead. And since those specs are apart from the averages, then there is some lead, most likely under the grommets ( since RF's frame SW is higher than the retail RFA). But if this is true, then we are talking about different weight distribution between the two frames. And if this is true then in my playbook, the retail is not RF's racquet. If we saw the lead on RF's racquet at the same place the auto tool suggests, then i would say that he is using a customized retail frame. But we dont and therefore i believe he uses a custom racquet.

Fed's racquets have custom handle made by P1, meaning its weight distribution might be different as well, which includes moulded handle, silicone inside the handle and lead (possibly) added to the top of the handle.

The second aspect is, when you receive a large quantity of racquets, retail or pro stock, it's unlikely all the hairpins will be nearly identical, having identical SW. So P1 have a job making those racquets identical. SW will be corrected at 12 o'clock (the easiest place and this was shown on P1 pics as well AFAIK) to become identical. Then you have to make them swing identical as well which is achieved through identical specs, but this is where lead at the top of the handle can serve well because it's impossible to match all three specs coming from even slightly different hairpins (different SW and weight) just by siliconing - you need top of the handle to match specs. Looking from MgR/I angle, once SW is matched through 12 o'clock it will not make the hairpins identical (god knows how the difference is distributed through the hoop), but swing can nevertheless be made the same by using lead at the top of the handle and matching all three specs will be possible.

Eventually Roger's racquets even if they were from retail hairpins because of realistic reasons have to be matched to bit higher SW than average retail (or average provided to P1) because of letting enough room to customize them to identical specs. Provided handle will not be the problem, it goes to garbage, but hairpin's SW is. Anyway racquets have to be picked and minimum variance in SW is desireable with necessary upper SW limit set.

Some of what I've written above is speculation of the customization/matching process, but I think it's quite logical.

H22 fan · Nov 20, 2017

zalive said:
Ok, I give up I promised to trust TW, so I do.

Please, don’t do that....
You are the last one standing for the truth...

tennissavvy · Nov 20, 2017

crazy...that's all come to mind...wow

TW specs settle the dispute. If someone has more to add please check your ego.

LiquidWhip · Nov 21, 2017

Just waiting for the tin foil hat brigade to see this and start their counter attack...

gplracer · Nov 21, 2017

Just more confirmation that Peter was right all along.

terminator97 · Nov 21, 2017

I just picked up a scale and checked my RF97's.. all stock with the following..

1. Grip size 3 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 366g

2. Grip size 3 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 360g

3. Grip size 2 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 363g

4. Grip size 2 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 364g

5. Grip size 3 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 360g

6. Grip size 3 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

7. Grip size 2 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

8. Grip size 2 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

The gut is heavier than NXT..
And considering the P1 custom grip and leather may add a few grams, it is close enough to retail.

Lambsscroll · Nov 21, 2017

terminator97 said:
I just picked up a scale and checked my RF97's.. all stock with the following..

1. Grip size 3 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 366g

2. Grip size 3 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 360g

3. Grip size 2 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 363g

4. Grip size 2 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 364g

5. Grip size 3 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 360g

6. Grip size 3 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

7. Grip size 2 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

8. Grip size 2 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

The gut is heavier than NXT..
And considering the P1 custom grip and leather may add a few grams, it is close enough to retail.

What about string savers?

Geoff · Nov 21, 2017

I have a new P1 leather grip I can weigh if anyone is interested. The P1 leather grips are thinner than Wilson grips.

moon shot · Nov 21, 2017

Geoff said:
I have a new P1 leather grip I can weigh if anyone is interested. The P1 leather grips are thinner than Wilson grips.

I would think his buttcap without trap door weighs less too. Most of my loose buttcaps without trap doors are 4-6 grams lighter. Of course that could easily be made up inside the grip.

BounceHitBounceHit · Nov 21, 2017

TW Staff said:
Tempting, very tempting!

But no...but Chris was trying to get me to throw a natural gut hybrid into my frames!

Michelle

It plays great with Champions Choice and the Rogi spec. Mine just kinda found its way there through fiddling (sans power pads or string savers) [emoji471][emoji462][emoji471]. BHBH

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

PBODY99 · Nov 21, 2017

Lambsscroll said:
What about string savers?

Less than a gram given style & number.

terminator97 · Nov 21, 2017

Lambsscroll said:
What about string savers?

yes, 10 Babolat string savers per racket, no power pads though...

bkfinch · Nov 21, 2017

What I wanna know is where is the @travlerajm commentary on this

jmacdaununder2 · Nov 21, 2017

terminator97 said:
I just picked up a scale and checked my RF97's.. all stock with the following..

1. Grip size 3 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 366g

2. Grip size 3 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 360g

3. Grip size 2 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 363g

4. Grip size 2 / Wilson Gut Main 26kg Alu Rough 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 364g

5. Grip size 3 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 360g

6. Grip size 3 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

7. Grip size 2 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

8. Grip size 2 / NXT Power Main 26kg Alu Power 24.5kg Cross / Wilson Pro OG/ Wilson Dampener (1g) = 359g

The gut is heavier than NXT..
And considering the P1 custom grip and leather may add a few grams, it is close enough to retail.

Just curious, why the two different grip sizes? Also, why no power pads? They soften the feel as well as protecting the gut, at the expense of a little additional swing weight.

terminator97 · Nov 21, 2017

jmacdaununder2 said:
Just curious, why the two different grip sizes? Also, why no power pads? They soften the feel as well as protecting the gut, at the expense of a little additional swing weight.

Good question, I always played with a #3 but switched from a 2H backhand to a 1H and found the #2 grip better so transitioning to the #2's (plus OG). Maybe next string job I'll try the power pads.

mcvlinden · Nov 22, 2017

68 RA ? Sure...

moon shot · Nov 22, 2017

Saw this in another thread, if he changed his strokes it stands to reason he could have changed his specs to facilitate that.

Powderwombat said:
Which version of the strokes are you talking about OP? Federer's serve and forehand have changed dramatically throughout the years. His forehand now looks way different than it did 10 years ago.

(skip to 1:18)

With a lower swingweight he would be able to react quicker in taking the ball on the rise.

It’s also possible he began playing the 97 a higher swingweight and lowered it after he had a to lose control and overhit. His average rally shot does seem less potent and deep than with the 90.

As far as the racquet specs I’m still amazed TW lists the two versions of the RF as having exactly the same average. I doubt two sets of 10 frames of the same model from Wilson would average to exactly the same numbers. Mine ranged from 323 to 341 swingweight before I sold the lot.

Povl Carstensen · Nov 22, 2017

mcvlinden said:
68 RA ? Sure...

Yes, isn't that like a PS Classic? How should a player of Federers caliber be able to control that?

moon shot · Nov 22, 2017

Povl Carstensen said:
Yes, isn't that like a PS Classic? How should a player of Federers caliber be able to control that?

Nah, the Classic was 70, probably higher when it was sold with leather.

https://web.archive.org/web/19990911144646/http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage.html?PCODE=61

TennisHound · Nov 22, 2017

Wasn't someone saying RF was still playing with the 90 under a pj? His racquet is so different from anything ever made in the racquet industry that even the Wilson engineers and employees at Wilson don't know exactly what it is.

Povl Carstensen · Nov 22, 2017

TennisHound said:
Wasn't someone saying RF was still playing with the 90 under a pj?

Finally we got it settled.

PeterFig · Nov 22, 2017

TennisHound said:
Wasn't someone saying RF was still playing with the 90 under a pj? His racquet is so different from anything ever made in the racquet industry that even the Wilson engineers and employees at Wilson don't know exactly what it is.

I'm pretty sure it's actually the Pro Staff 85 under a pj. I heard from someone that heard from someone that shared the same bus as a second-cousin of a Wilson rep that Federer has never actually switched racquets in his career.

PeterFig · Nov 22, 2017

BounceHitBounceHit said:
It plays great with Champions Choice and the Rogi spec. Mine just kinda found its way there through fiddling (sans power pads or string savers) [emoji471][emoji462][emoji471]. BHBH

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I started with that combo.... but found the Alu Feel felt a little more crisp/responsive and had a more feel than the Alu Rough. Then when the Lux Gut came out i switched to that as it's not too different from Wilson gut but it's crazy durable!

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