Djokovic and Rafa need to thank Federer for setting lofty goals

cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
clayqueen said:
If Fedfans were so confident of his GOATness why the endless diatribe on Rafa? Every single day there are at least 2 new threads trying to dismiss Nadal's legacy in order to justify Federer's greatness. How many threads do you see of this nature against Federer by anyone else?
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Well, first of all, as it stands at the moment, Federer is greater than Nadal. His numbers prove it. But both are still active so who knows how it will all play out in the end?

Secondly, just because there are some aggressive Fedfans what does that have to do with your constant need to post that Federer is garbage next to Nadal when it's so obviously false?
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
clayqueen said:
What kind of logic is this? Federer could have lost to anyone else who made the final. We will never know.

You would say that but no reasonable person would say so. It's twisted logic.


Why stop at 2012? I get it. You want to airbrush Fed's losses to Tsonga, Gulbis and Stan in 2013, 2014 and 2015. Lol
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And yet you have no problem saying Nadal would have won many more slams if not for injuries.
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
titoelcolombiano said:
lol - they all pushed each other to greater heights that they would have reached on their own. If Rafa & Djoker were good but not great Fed would have probably hit 16 slams and retired comfortably in 2010.
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If that was the case he’d probably have won a CYGS, 7 consecutive Wimbledon’s and 5 consecutive AO by that point and made a mockery of the sport.
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
mike danny said:
Well it's not Federer's fault Djoker can't meet him anymore. He would have been ahead in the H2H a long time ago.

And it's not Federer's fault Rafa endlessly dodged him in late 2014 and 2015.

And LOL at a 22-23 H2H being damaging to Federer :rolleyes:
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Not to mention 2009 Djokovic losing at 3 slams to players Fed would go on to beat. H2H would be out of sight if he was good enough to reach 09 Fed, just like grandpa was good enough to reach Djokovic 4 times.
 
K

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
clayqueen said:
What kind of logic is this? Federer could have lost to anyone else who made the final. We will never know.

You would say that but no reasonable person would say so. It's twisted logic.


Why stop at 2012? I get it. You want to airbrush Fed's losses to Tsonga, Gulbis and Stan in 2013, 2014 and 2015. Lol
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Because Fed was 32-34 years old in those years and well past his prime.

And lol if you think anyone but Rafa is beating Fed in those tournaments. 08 Djokovic I give a slight chance, but with his first RG title on the line? No way do I see Fed blowing that one.
 
Zhilady

Zhilady

Professional
clayqueen said:
This thread is not about what Nadal is lacking or not lacking so it's irrelevant to the discussion. It's about Nadal and Djokovic needing to be grateful to Federer for setting lofty goals. Don't lose sight of the topic.
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And that's exactly what I posted. The lofty goals that Federer has set for Nadal.
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
Backspin1780 said:
There are multiple possibilities midlife lack of fulfillment/ empty nest syndrome compounded with unfulfilment in aging and major hormonal changes

But more likely a longstanding undiagnosed mild/ moderate personality disorder. Diffuclty in maintaining long lasting relationships and wild swings in mood, self esteem and self worth. Constant drama etc
Click to expand...

Hats off to you sir...

Although I could catch a little of your golden words at first sight
 
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B

Backspin1780

Semi-Pro
clayqueen said:
If Fedfans were so confident of his GOATness why the endless diatribe on Rafa? Every single day there are at least 2 new threads trying to dismiss Nadal's legacy in order to justify Federer's greatness. How many threads do you see of this nature against Federer by anyone else?
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What are you on about many fed fans dont have him down as GOAT. I dont have hin as GOAT either. There is ni GOAT just as there is no king if clay (and if there was it certainly is not nadal) fed is simply best player out of his era and the djokovic nadal era which followed him. He is most sucesful player.

I think you will find it is VB pitifully trying to call badal king of clay or making excuses for berdych, ferrer, peurta, injuredml murray
 
M

merlinpinpin

Hall of Fame
kevaninho said:
So theyre irrelevant to you? Youre just showing silly fan bias now.
Of course its a massive thing that he has a losing H2H against his 2 greatest chellengers.
Anyone who thinks that means nothing is just burying their head in the sand.
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It's anything but massive when Djokovic, who is 6 years younger, leads him by *one* match and has been studiously avoiding him this past two years (even going as far as to retire mid-match to make sure he stays ahead? that's a question, btw, but it's a very real possibility). Considering the age difference, this actually shows Federer in a very good light.

As for Nadal, he's still ahead by a fair margin, but the H2H is actually pretty respectable now (and partly a product of circumstances), and as they're currently avoiding each other on the other guy's favourite surfaces, things are likely to stay that way.
 
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Sum Buddy Ells

Sum Buddy Ells

Hall of Fame
clayqueen said:
Another thread serving as group therapy for lost Fedfans.
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At least there's a group of active Fedfans coming together here.

You should call in octobrina to join you in sullying this thread (and any other RF-related thread that doesn't even attack Rafa). You don't want to feel so alone

f637cdb09150d6a26a6bc6c4e120d0dd.jpg
 
titoelcolombiano

titoelcolombiano

Legend
ND-13 said:
Let us be fair .

Roger , like Usain Bolt, set a 100m WR @9:58

If Djokovic and Rafa are steadily climbing up from 11.0 secs to 10.5 to 10 now, does it help Fed ?

Fed is looking at himself to see whether he can do a 9.4 now
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I didn't know Fed could run that fast
 
I

I am the Greatest!

Professional
clayqueen said:
Fed has more than one Goalpost:
1. To win a slam 10 times
2. Is to have a positive h2h against Rafa and Djoker.
3. To be good on clay
4. To be better on h/c than Djoko
5. To win as many M1000s as Rafa and Djoker
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He is better and greater than Novak on hardcourts. What are you? An idiot sandwich?
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
I am the Greatest! said:
He is better and greater than Novak on hardcourts. What are you? An idiot sandwich?
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Best ranked opponent beat at AO: n.3 Ferrero.

wins over top-3: Djokovic 6 (big4), Federer 1 (ferrero).

Djokovic 9 wins and 1 loss against big4, Federer 4 wins and 7 losses.
 
I

I am the Greatest!

Professional
Lew said:
Best ranked opponent beat at AO: n.3 Ferrero.

wins over top-3: Djokovic 6 (big4), Federer 1 (ferrero).

Djokovic 9 wins and 1 loss against big4, Federer 4 wins and 7 losses.
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Here's another idiot again. What was Federer's age when Novak gained grounds on Federer on hard courts? Not to mention other hard court tournaments?

Djokovic winning that much against the Big Four states it's a weak era afterall. Kudos for you pointing that out.
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
merlinpinpin said:
It's anything but massive when Djokovic, who is 6 years younger, leads him by *one* match and has been studiously avoiding him this past two years (even going as far as to retire mid-match to make sure he stays ahead? that's a question, btw, but it's a very real possibility). Considering the age difference, this actually shows Federer in a very good light.

As for Nadal, he's still ahead by a fair margin, but the H2H is actually pretty respectable now (and partly a product of circumstances), and as they're currently avoiding each other on the other guy's favourite surfaces, things are likely to stay that way.
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Federer lost 21 of the 30 most important matches against Djokovic and Nadal, with surfaces by his side: 17 matches on hardcourt (4 indoors), 7 on clay, 6 on grass
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
Thanks Federer for creating the two best players ever.
 
ak24alive

ak24alive

Legend
clayqueen said:
Fed would love to have an 81 match winning streak on any surface.
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Yes sure but he already has a streak of 65 on a surface with one major and a few 250-500's. Only if there were more tournaments Fed would obviously have more given his form from those years. While the other beast has 81 on a surface with more tournaments. I think those streaks are almost the same. Maybe Rafa's even greater. Both of them ended in epic fashion too. So cheers on that.
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
ak24alive said:
Yes sure but he already has a streak of 65 on a surface with one major and a few 250-500's. Only if there were more tournaments Fed would obviously have more given his form from those years. While the other beast has 81 on a surface with more tournaments. I think those streaks are almost the same. Maybe Rafa's even greater. Both of them ended in epic fashion too. So cheers on that.
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If there were more tournaments on grass the competition would have been higher. And grass already has too many tournaments, it is an extinct surface in the world.
 
Federer and Del Potro

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
ak24alive said:
From 2003-2008 Wimbledon pick one player to beat him on grass. He was on a run and if at that time he faced more players he would win more. That's just plain and simple.
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Nah dude if we made Clay Season twice as long Nadal would face stiffer competition as it went on and he'd only double bagel people instead of triple bageling them. :cool:
 
ak24alive

ak24alive

Legend
Federer and Del Potro said:
If sheer volume directly equaled "higher competition" automatically then Grandpa Federer wouldn't still be winning slams on any surface. That's not how it works.
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Exactly my point. If you count the years Nadal went without a loss on his surface and Fed went on his surface then it looks different. You give an unbeatable man more to play sure his chances of a loss increases but the chances of win are still way more given his red hot form. So I am just saying Fed might have had 90+ consecutive wins if there was a masters on grass. Not crying for a Masters on grass here. Just stating what I feel.
 
Federer and Del Potro

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
ak24alive said:
Exactly my point. If you count the years Nadal went without a loss on his surface and Fed went on his surface then it looks different. You give an unbeatable man more to play sure his chances of a loss increases but the chances of win are still way more given his red hot form. So I am just saying Fed might have had 90+ consecutive wins if there was a masters on grass. Not crying for a Masters on grass here. Just stating what I feel.
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100 percent agree. While it would have been a monumental task regardless, as it's an absurd number, a higher volume of matches in a given season is much more conducive to maintaining such a streak then it spanning many years (which is what would be required for a grass court streak of that magnitude).

Not to mention it's actually paradoxical to say that the grass competition gets stiffer, as that actually makes Federer's grass streak even more impressive then.. So while I will agree that more matches = less of a chance to keep a streak (just basic math) I fully agree with you that if the grass season was considerably longer, Peak Grass Federer had a real good chance at a streak as insane as Rafa's clay streak.

I'd only put it at a lower chance because the extent of grass court competition is quite higher than clay..
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
Im(moral) Winner said:
But grass competition is tougher than clay. Current #1 can win 10 RGs no problem but isn't capable of making to the Wimbledon QF in over 5 years.
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Since 2004 only 4 players won Wimbledon and 5 players took 27 of the 30 places in the final.

That's not how I measure competition, though.
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
ak24alive said:
From 2003-2008 Wimbledon pick one player to beat him on grass. He was on a run and if at that time he faced more players he would win more. That's just plain and simple.
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You don't know what would have happened with a higher competition.
 
Federer and Del Potro

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
Lew said:
Too many high level tournaments, I meant.
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Grass court tennis isn't nearly extinct because it lacks popularity, it is sparse because it is incredibly hard to maintain grass courts. It also takes months of preparation to set them up/ is probably quite expensive.

The "lifetime" of a grass court is considerably shorter than that of a HC/Clay Court.

It is just logistically the most difficult of all the surfaces to manage.
 
ak24alive

ak24alive

Legend
Lew said:
Since 2004 only 4 players won Wimbledon and 5 players took 27 of the 30 places in the final.

That's not how I measure competition, though.
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At least all those 4 players won it twice.
What will u say about the 4 players who won FO since 2005? None barring one won it more than once and 2 of the other 3 won when the beast was at his worse or injured. Only Fed won FO when Nadal was fit and in form and that too without beating him. Such is the competition on clay.
 
A

axlrose

Professional
Laver: OK son. You may not be able to win a CYGS twice, but at least win 4 in a row once.

Federer: ....

http://www.**************.org/imgb/54727/rod-laver-roger-federer-is-playing-as-well-as-he-did-at-21-age-.jpg
 
Federer and Del Potro

Federer and Del Potro

Talk Tennis Guru
ak24alive said:
At least all those 4 players won it twice.
What will u say about the 4 players who won FO since 2005? None barring one won it more than once and 2 of the other 3 won when the beast was at his worse or injured. Only Fed won FO when Nadal was fit and in form and that too without beating him. Such is the competition on clay.
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At the end of the day, it's impossible for us to measure really (Peak Federer Grass vs Peak Nadal Clay - which is higher or "better") - the accomplishments are advantage Nadal (but what would the accomplishments look like if clay season was the incredibly short one? Or if grass season was as long as Clay season is now?) I have zero problem saying this - That my gut even tells me Nadal's peak level is maybe a tad higher surface to surface. But I also think it's disingenuous of people to not also include or consider some key factors - Clay gets 3 M1000 events per year. It is considerably longer then GC season - thus dominance is already much more possible from a sheer numbers standpoint during CC than GC season...form is much more likely to hold up over a couple of months than a couple of YEARS. And once again - the overall extent of the competition. Grass Court competition is generally better - and it's just more tailormade for upsets to happen (can be very generous to people catching lightning in a bottle on their serves a la Muller/Tsonga).

I find lack of parity boring regardless of what surface it occurs on. I personally found RG 2017 to be boring, and I found much of Wimbledon 2017 to be boring as well.

But it isn't on Nadal or Federer to create parity..it's on literally everyone else..and they're failing miserably at doing it...but at least they're consistent! They're failing to do it on ALL SURFACES. :oops:
 
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D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
Federer and Del Potro said:
Grass court tennis isn't nearly extinct because it lacks popularity, it is sparse because it is incredibly hard to maintain grass courts. It also takes months of preparation to set them up/ is probably quite expensive.

The "lifetime" of a grass court is considerably shorter than that of a HC/Clay Court.

It is just logistically the most difficult of all the surfaces to manage.
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I didn't say grass is unpopular.
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
ak24alive said:
At least all those 4 players won it twice.
What will u say about the 4 players who won FO since 2005? None barring one won it more than once and 2 of the other 3 won when the beast was at his worse or injured. Only Fed won FO when Nadal was fit and in form and that too without beating him. Such is the competition on clay.
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At the RG there were more different finalists.

But I repeat, this is not how I measure competition.

And clay is a specialistic surface too. Nobody will ever win 81 or 65 matches in a row on hardcourt.
 
D

Deleted member 757377

Guest
Maybe grass is more similar to hardcourt (peak surface for competition), while clay is more popular.

Sure if there were more tournaments on grass the competition would be higher. Maybe Federer would have won less Wimbledon titles. How many Wimbledon titles would you trade for some m1000?
 
ak24alive

ak24alive

Legend
Lew said:
while clay is more popular.
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Come on man!!
I like clay and I know there's more emphasis on the surface than grass from the player's perspective as it has many more tournaments and points than grass.
But that's just not how you judge how popular a surface is.
People love grass more than clay. Mostly because of Wimbledon but yes they do. Most players would give up a RG title for a Wimbledon. The general sentiment is that grass is the original tennis surface and Wimbledon is the Motherland although tennis was found mainly in France.
It's even more popular than Hard Courts if you ask me. When we are talking popularity a surface is basically the tournaments it hosts. There is this heavy attention during Wimbledon that is just not there even at the USO. So by that logic it's even more popular than HC's.
 
ak24alive

ak24alive

Legend
Lew said:
At the RG there were more different finalists.

But I repeat, this is not how I measure competition.

And clay is a specialistic surface too. Nobody will ever win 81 or 65 matches in a row on hardcourt.
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I ain't stating any opinion here but just for your information from 2005 to present Wimbledon has had 8 different finalists and RG too has had 8.
Wimby:
Roger
Roddick
Rafa
Berdych
Nole
Andy
Raonic
Cilic

RG:
Puerto
Rafa
Roger
Soldering
Nole
Ferrer
Stan
Andy
 
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