Jonathan P.
Rookie
after watching tons of videos look like Wawrinka has the simple motion...
Which one of the Pros ATP or WTA has the simple "easy copy" serve?
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Jonathan P.
Rookie
His serve doesn't seem as complicated as Federer for example... and yet is very effective, not elegant to watch as other player but effective. For a recreational player should be more than enough.
mbm0912
Hall of Fame
unless you have the fast twitch muscles of stan....good luck
Jonathan P.
Rookie
Thats why I am asking for advice/opinions...
Jonathan P.
Rookie
Nadal is a lefty... Im having a hard time trying to mirror the image in my head to do the same thing with my right hand.
Jonathan P.
Rookie
LOL.... not that simple either.
Jonathan P.
Rookie
Those look promising... very straightforward. I just prefer the platform stance vs pinpoint but I can give it a shot.
Jonathan P.
Rookie
It looks so easy, I dont know why is so difficult to to it... I guess that's why he is #1... or maybe and just need and few extra thousands practice repetitions + the athletic condition. But it is always nice to dream.
From my experience getting some coaching - "copying" a pro serve is a lot harder than it looks. I got some coaching at one point, and things my coach pointed out that pros were doing that I wasn't were things I would never have noticed looking at a video, and would have never gotten right without somebody watching me and correcting things as I went.
(I made a change the coach suggested - it felt *terrible*, I shanked like the first 10 serves I tried with it. After 4-5 hours of practice I got it. But for the first 2-3 hours of trying the change, I had literally no idea whether I was remotely on the right track. Same thing with my forehand, when I got some instruction. Any significant change you make will totally mess up your timing and your contact point and your muscle memory.)
Moreover, on a video, you can't see cause and effect. The motion is fluid because it's a kinetic chain - each part of the body works in harmony with each other. But unless you're an expert, you can't tell from the video what parts of the motion are things you need to think about doing and do, and what parts naturally flow from the rest. If you try to "force" a motion that should be naturally flowing from something else, you'll get nowhere.
(I made a change the coach suggested - it felt *terrible*, I shanked like the first 10 serves I tried with it. After 4-5 hours of practice I got it. But for the first 2-3 hours of trying the change, I had literally no idea whether I was remotely on the right track. Same thing with my forehand, when I got some instruction. Any significant change you make will totally mess up your timing and your contact point and your muscle memory.)
Moreover, on a video, you can't see cause and effect. The motion is fluid because it's a kinetic chain - each part of the body works in harmony with each other. But unless you're an expert, you can't tell from the video what parts of the motion are things you need to think about doing and do, and what parts naturally flow from the rest. If you try to "force" a motion that should be naturally flowing from something else, you'll get nowhere.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
I tried to replicate his serve motion for a long time and kept failing, so I thought it was extremely hard to do, started overthinking it. one day it just clicked during a match and i served out of my mind; since then i've been able to do it with relative ease (not the same results tho ofc). it's easy once you get it.
of course it looks a bit different (fedr is the only fedr in the world, you can't out-fedr the fedr) but i am now able to play a serve relatively smiliar to his, which has served (no pun intended) me well over the past year
Zeref
Professional
No matter how fluid and easy going it looks, from experience , copying it is so difficult. I get specially jammed trying to attain that perfect "Crown". My shoulders get locked from that position and then i am unable to accelerate much
. Dimitriov seems to be trying to copy it too and fails miserably, his service motion is nowhere near as fluid.But u are right about Djokovic service motion ( especially 2015 ), It looks so complex, never trying it.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
One of my practice partners tried that too, but he has a good serve and his entire game has an uncanny resemblance to dimitrov's. Also Dimitrov's serve looks less like Federer than Tsonga's serve. Tsonga has a very similar serve (and strokes in general) to the Fed, and he can serve bulletsNo matter how fluid and easy going it looks, from experience , copying it is so difficult. I get specially jammed trying to attain that perfect "Crown". My shoulders get locked from that position and then i am unable to accelerate much
But u are right about Djokovic service motion ( especially 2015 ), It looks so complex, never trying it.
Jonathan P.
Rookie
I prefer the platform because it feel more natural to me. Every time I try the pinpont I get locked and cant jump.
Jonathan P.
Rookie
100% true... some little movements and adjustments are almost impossible to catch and after you see yourself on a video you realize your are actually doing things way way different of what you think you are doing.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
100% agreed. Are you a coach? Because that was exactly what I've heard from a few coaches.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
It's also not great. I don't know. I feel like his shoulder movement is a bit too horizontal or his hips open early or something, so he doesn't really get a reliable kicker, so when he serves with kick, he's really pushing it.
Many serves who look a bit like each other can have very different results based on subtle differences. Look at the difference between Federer and Dimitrov.
I actually think the motion probably will affect the 2nd serve more than the first serve, cause even it's an somewhat inconsistent motion players are strong enough to hammer the ball.
I would honestly say there's not really a perfect motion. There are elements that are very important and almost always good, and there are a few elements that have a bit of a pace/accuracy tradeoff. I'd say Federer and Djokovic have very good serves for average pace/good accuracy, and Roddick had the perfect technique for max pace. Seriously, the fact that Roddick served 65% first serves in for his career with his technique is a miracle.
There's also a lot gonna depend on player physique.
all in all I'd really say to pick a good serve that's naturally close to your own.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Please post a video of your serve. Preferably with the camera behind you.
weelie
Professional
For some reason, Gasquet is the guy I think of when I am trying to get my 2nd serve back in order. His is maybe not the best serve on the tour, but still good enough.
To me it seems people want to copy the Federer serve as he is the best of all time. Looks very solid, but I would not know how to emulate it. Of course, who ever you emulate, you end up looking like yourself. I tried to copy Agassi for all shots as a kid.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
This post is as if I myself posting this.
From all my observations, to replicate Wawrinka looked easiest to me. He has very simple motion and generates tremendous pace from that simple motion. I have tried to copy his motion and I feel it helped me a bit (though i am not sure if I am rightly copying him).
In other players, have a look at the serve of Filip Krajinovic. He also has simple motion.
maximus
Semi-Pro
I agree. Wawrinka has the simplest look.
Topspin Slice
Rookie
Wawrinka has a simple service motion, but I think it only works for him because of how unusually strong he is. Rather than copy one serve, it’s a good idea to look at many and see what they all do in common. There’s a lot of ‘noise’ in a serve, and you can end up copying unnecessary peculiarities in a service motion which distract from the important bits
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Plamen1234
Hall of Fame
This one:
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
yes.. that helps if you are 4 feet taller than the net.
Devin
Semi-Pro
Federer's serve actually used to be different. I should probably refresh my memory, but his toss was a bit higher back then and he generated power with more wrist snap and brute arm acceleration back then. He was able to serve harder back then.
Now, he relies on a more fluid and more kinetically efficient serve technique. He can't get the power that he used to, but he has improved his placement.
Now, he relies on a more fluid and more kinetically efficient serve technique. He can't get the power that he used to, but he has improved his placement.
accidental
Hall of Fame
Any pros serve would be 'easy' to learn, but take forever difficult to master
Go to any junior tournament and you'll see a dozen poor quality Federer serves
Go to any junior tournament and you'll see a dozen poor quality Federer serves
Jonathan P.
Rookie
That's my point, it might not be the best serve ever but the worse serve of any atp is still better that the best sever of any recreational player. Not good enough for the pros but more that enough for recreational.
Rubens
Hall of Fame
PrinceMoron
Legend
flanker2000fr
Hall of Fame
For 99.999% of the people on this forum, having Dimitrov serve would be a massive improvement.
ForumMember
Hall of Fame
Whom you are counting out in that .001%??
Purplemonster
Hall of Fame
Almagro has a very easy motion, well at least it looks like it is.
