Is it time for racquet companies to sell their magical pro stocks to the retail public?

D

Djokovicfan

Professional
I understand that racquet companies, in order to maximize profits, try to market each new racquet as being better than the last one. Isnt this kind of a hopeless pursuit, when more and more people are getting truthful information from the internet? Doesnt head realize that if they started to sell djokers racquet almost untouched like wilson honorably did the rf97, people would buy it like crazy? Why not at least sell racquets that start with the same core/layout as djokers racquet but with some modern tweaks to make it more player friendly? Just because most ppl wouldnt be able to deal with the weight of djokers racquet doesnt mean there arent TONS of people out there who would play BETTER with it. If head doesnt want to sell it themselves they should at least sell the design plans to a third party manufacturers. I see tons of people using the rf97. As much as wilsons QC is apparently degenerate, they should be given praise for selling (close to) feds racquet.
 
chikoo

chikoo

Hall of Fame
Djokovicfan said:
I understand that racquet companies, in order to maximize profits, try to market each new racquet as being better than the last one. Isnt this kind of a hopeless pursuit, when more and more people are getting truthful information from the internet? Doesnt head realize that if they started to sell djokers racquet almost untouched like wilson honorably did the rf97, people would buy it like crazy? Why not at least sell racquets that start with the same core/layout as djokers racquet but with some modern tweaks to make it more player friendly? Just because most ppl wouldnt be able to deal with the weight of djokers racquet doesnt mean there arent TONS of people out there who would play BETTER with it. If head doesnt want to sell it themselves they should at least sell the design plans to a third party manufacturers. I see tons of people using the rf97. As much as wilsons QC is apparently degenerate, they should be given praise for selling (close to) feds racquet.
Click to expand...

they should. let the people make the choice.
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
It's difficult to convince people to buy new iterations of racquets when it's apparent that pro stocks remain the same frame.

At least when pro stock frames are difficult to get a hold of, those who aren't particularly interested in pro gear pick up the newest versions. If they see pro stock frames in the stores however, they would start asking questions.
 
Moveforwardalways

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Actually, I do not think many rec tennis players would buy pro stock racquets. Why? Pro stocks require the player to provide the power and spin. Any normal rec 3.5 player who demos a retail Pure Aero and a pro stock frame is going to buy the retail Pure Aero 9 times out of 10. When you ask them, they will tell you how much worse they played with the pro stock.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
styksnstryngs said:
Poor horse
Click to expand...

I meant, what is your opinion on providing a pro stock for the general end consumer?

Playability is one thing, although, to be fair, most recreational players don't know ****, and play like it, so, when has playability ever been the culprit of the buyer's decision?

What we are left with is: price, technology, access to pro equipment (exclusivity) etc, so, these are the things I would like to hear an opinion on.

"Poor horse" might be suitable on some level, but it is interesting to hear the thinking behind it.

A few (short) sentences might be enough.

:cool:
 
styksnstryngs

styksnstryngs

Professional
Tennis_Hands said:
I meant, what is your opinion on providing a pro stock for the general end consumer?

Playability is one thing, although, to be fair, most recreational players don't know ****, and play like it, so, when has playability ever been the culprit of the buyer's decision?

What we are left with is: price, technology, access to pro equipment (exclusivity) etc, so, these are the things I would like to hear an opinion on.

"Poor horse" might be suitable on some level, but it is interesting to hear the thinking behind it.

A few (short) sentences might be enough.

:cool:
Click to expand...
I think that people that really want a pro stock and are good enough to justify it can find one if they look hard enough anyways.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
styksnstryngs said:
I think that people that really want a pro stock and are good enough to justify it can find one if they look hard enough anyways.
Click to expand...

That is not the issue.

The issue is transparency of the product substance and availability.

For example, I am curios to know, why is not possible/viable for the raquet companies to offer pro stock raquets along with their recreational offerings?

Is it a matter of price, lack of resources etc. or is it merely a marketing approach?

Wilson came up with the RF raquet.

Does it sell, and if "yes" then that is the debunking of the myth about pro raquets not being bought just because the players play worse right there.

I know a lot of people that would be better off with other raquets than the ones they use, yet they use and like what they chose, so why is that applicable to the pro stock raquets and not to other lines that are equally unsuitable for all sorts of players?

:cool:
 
Moveforwardalways

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Tennis_Hands said:
That is not the issue.

The issue is transparency of the product substance and availability.

For example, I am curios to know, why is not possible/viable for the raquet companies to offer pro stock raquets along with their recreational offerings?

Is it a matter of price, lack of resources etc. or is it merely a marketing approach?

Wilson came up with the RF raquet.

Does it sell, and if "yes" then that is the debunking of the myth about pro raquets not being bought just because the players play worse right there.

I know a lot of people that would be better off with other raquets than the ones they use, yet they use and like what they chose, so why is that applicable to the pro stock raquets and not to other lines that are equally unsuitable for all sorts of players?

:cool:
Click to expand...

The RF97 sells because it has Federer’s name on it. And I think it is also probably the most common racquet sold second hand or sold back to TW because it is too heavy. Not too mention it is stiffer than Federer’s actual racquet according to many. Unless you get Federer autographing a Wilson H22, it’s not going to fly off the shelves. JMO.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Moveforwardalways said:
The RF97 sells because it has Federer’s name on it. And I think it is also probably the most common racquet sold second hand or sold back to TW because it is too heavy. Not too mention it is stiffer than Federer’s actual racquet according to many. Unless you get Federer autographing a Wilson H22, it’s not going to fly off the shelves. JMO.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, but ultimately what is sold second hand on TW is not indicative of what the general public buys and keeps.

Also, the raquet companies can continue to sell raquets with the players' name on them, and sell pro stock, which will target a customer who knows better than to look for a raquet only because it has a certain name on it.

I find it highly amusing that players that are somewhat knowledgeable about raquets take the marketing view of the companies as somewhat reasonable, when they themselves don't believe in it.

:cool:
 
M

makinao

Rookie
If you really want real, authentic, red-blooded, new or used "pro" racquets, you can buy them from retailers like Prostocktennis.com. If that's not enough, turn them over to Priority One for customization. But at US$400 for a new Head TGT339.2 frame, or up to US$411 Wilson Pro Stock 97 Blacked Out 16x19 "specially blacked out by the Wilson Pro Room for a high-ranked ATP pro", a lot of recreational players will be scared away by the price.
 
Vlad_C

Vlad_C

Semi-Pro
Frankly I never understood why companies don’t sell the pro-stock racquets alongside their regular lineup. Clearly there is a demand for these, so why not take advantage of that?

Wilson has done just that with their RF97 Autograph, and I’m willing to bet it was a huge commercial success. The racquet was literally flying off the shelves when it was first introduced, it sold out immediately in most stores (at least here in Canada), and they’ve been increasing the price every year in order to keep up with the demand.

I can see the argument that companies might be concerned that those racquet would cannibalize the sales of their regular models, and this might be true to some extent. Without looking at some marketing research data, it would be impossible for us to say for sure what financial impact it would have, and whether it would result in lower revenue overall. Who knows, maybe this is why they’re not doing it.
 
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Vlad_C

Vlad_C

Semi-Pro
vsbabolat said:
Companies should but they wont because they have a very low opinion of the consumer.
Click to expand...

I just think they should because there's money to be made in it, as Wilson clearly showed with their very successful RF97 Autograph.

The notion that the average recreational player wouldn’t know how to use these racquets is not really a relevant argument, in my opinion. Most people realize that just because they’re buying Djokovic’s racquet, they’re not really going to be able to play like him. But that doesn’t prevent people from wanting the racquet anyway.

Around here, where I live, there are plenty of people who can barely keep a car going in a straight line without crashing. Yet that does not prevent the local dealership from selling a Ferrari or a Lamborghini to any d-bag who shows up at their door with a suitcase full of cash.
 
SeeItHitIt

SeeItHitIt

Professional
Pro stock, retail stock, new old stock, take stock, whatever. I know it’s a transparency thing, but Toyota, Chevrolet and Ford don’t exactly sell the ‘race’ versions of the common badges you see zipping around the high speed ovals either. Maybe some guys would play better with an h22 than a Blade he orders with the push of a button, but at the end of the day, it’s the Indian and not the bow.
 
vsbabolat

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
SeeItHitIt said:
Pro stock, retail stock, new old stock, take stock, whatever. I know it’s a transparency thing, but Toyota, Chevrolet and Ford don’t exactly sell the ‘race’ versions of the common badges you see zipping around the high speed ovals either. Maybe some guys would play better with an h22 than a Blade he orders with the push of a button, but at the end of the day, it’s the Indian and not the bow.
Click to expand...
You can’t compare nascar to tennis
 
E

elkabras

Rookie
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

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96831ee6e6446586e82befb592deed36.jpg


0c595432640f2537b2d2a819bd74cd4b.jpg



Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk
 
M

makinao

Rookie
SeeItHitIt said:
Pro stock, retail stock, new old stock, take stock, whatever. I know it’s a transparency thing, but Toyota, Chevrolet and Ford don’t exactly sell the ‘race’ versions of the common badges you see zipping around the high speed ovals either.
Click to expand...

vsbabolat said:
You can’t compare nascar to tennis
Click to expand...

Its the same thing in audio. Consumer audio is a totally different world from professional audio, and therefore are available in different types of stores. You will you probably never see a Schoeps CMC 6/MK 2 Stereo Microphone Set or a Solid State Logic AWS 924 24-channel mixer in your local Stereo Exchange, and the price ($3,125.00 and $85,375.00 respectively) will shock you. But it's available RETAIL, albeit in the pro audio departments of stores like sweetwater.com, which only musicians and music production people know about. You just have to know where to look.
 
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S

Spin

New User
Vlad_C said:
I just think they should because there's money to be made in it, as Wilson clearly showed with their very successful RF97 Autograph.

The notion that the average recreational player wouldn’t know how to use these racquets is not really a relevant argument, in my opinion. Most people realize that just because they’re buying Djokovic’s racquet, they’re not really going to be able to play like him. But that doesn’t prevent people from wanting the racquet anyway.

Around here, where I live, there are plenty of people who can barely keep a car going in a straight line without crashing. Yet that does not prevent the local dealership from selling a Ferrari or a Lamborghini to any d-bag who shows up at their door with a suitcase full of cash.
Click to expand...

Where do you live?
 
S

Sean Sullivan

New User
BounceHitBounceHit said:
Will today's retail frames (played by the vast majority of rising juniors/future ATP/WTA superstars) become the "pro stocks" of tomorrow? ;)
Click to expand...

Honestly, this is a good question. At what level does a "pro" become introduced to the option of "Pro Stock" racquets and do they all "take the plunge" or stick with what got them there?

Let's take Zverev for example, he apparently made his way up as a teen playing with a Head IG Speed MP 315 (possibly because he thought, as most people did, that it was Djokovic's frame). Now, he's used to that frame and has made the top 10 with it, so he paintjobs this "formerly retail" frame (with some mods) and it is now a "pro stock" version of the current Speed MP.

The question to me is at what point as you become top junior or emerging pro do they pull you aside and tell you "Hey kid, you've been doing this all wrong - stop playing with that toy racquet, here's a real one."? And do the majority of pros just drop their retail frames of many years and instantly gel w the currently available "pro stock" frames?

Question #2 is how good do you have to be to tell your sponsor to "GTFO with your current range of pro stock frames. you'll continue to produce my current frame for me as a "pro stock" from now on."?
 
P

Povl Carstensen

Legend
I hope and think they discover what kind of weight they need to play professional tennis. The only player I ever noticed going down in (sw)weight, was Murray. I remember him playing slower swings with a lot of plow through many years ago
 
J

jxs653

Professional
Djokovicfan said:
I understand that racquet companies, in order to maximize profits, try to market each new racquet as being better than the last one. Isnt this kind of a hopeless pursuit, when more and more people are getting truthful information from the internet? Doesnt head realize that if they started to sell djokers racquet almost untouched like wilson honorably did the rf97, people would buy it like crazy? Why not at least sell racquets that start with the same core/layout as djokers racquet but with some modern tweaks to make it more player friendly? Just because most ppl wouldnt be able to deal with the weight of djokers racquet doesnt mean there arent TONS of people out there who would play BETTER with it. If head doesnt want to sell it themselves they should at least sell the design plans to a third party manufacturers. I see tons of people using the rf97. As much as wilsons QC is apparently degenerate, they should be given praise for selling (close to) feds racquet.
Click to expand...
It never occurs to me people play poorly because of lack of selection. Head's adding pro spec racquets to their provision will satisfy people's curiosity for a while but it won't help people play any better.
 
kramer woodie

kramer woodie

Professional
In my opinion most rec players are incapable of swinging a pro-stock. The swing weight is just too high. Even my standard Yonex SV98+, when borrowed to try with a swing weigh of 342, gets comments that it is too heavy to swing. Rec players just can't get enough racket head speed period.

If manufactures were to offer pro-stock, I think their sales would decline, because the masses would find those pro-stock unusable. Just
my 2 cents. However, the majority of RF97s I see on the court are the light version and those who try out the real RF97 quickly get tired and
give up on the racquet.

Aloha
 
D

Djokovicfan

Professional
Moveforwardalways said:
Actually, I do not think many rec tennis players would buy pro stock racquets. Why? Pro stocks require the player to provide the power and spin. Any normal rec 3.5 player who demos a retail Pure Aero and a pro stock frame is going to buy the retail Pure Aero 9 times out of 10. When you ask them, they will tell you how much worse they played with the pro stock.
Click to expand...
Why do so many ppl play with and love the rf97 then?
 
kimguroo

kimguroo

Legend
Wow. You still believe there is magical rackets......
Also pro stock does not mean you will play like pros.

I believe over 90% recreational players will be totally fine with retail rackets.
 
D

Djokovicfan

Professional
Moveforwardalways said:
The RF97 sells because it has Federer’s name on it. And I think it is also probably the most common racquet sold second hand or sold back to TW because it is too heavy. Not too mention it is stiffer than Federer’s actual racquet according to many. Unless you get Federer autographing a Wilson H22, it’s not going to fly off the shelves. JMO.
Click to expand...
People are buying rf97s like crazy because it IS feds racquet. Not because it has feds name on it.
Alot of ppl seek product validation when they buy the same thing a pro uses.
I cant stand the “only special tennis players are good enough to use pro racquets” argument.
Its like the lifeguard at the pool who doesnt let anybody under 18 in the hot tub because of “safety reasons”
Let the customer try and/or buy the racquet they want. The upcoming generation of middle aged rec players are very internet savvy, so eventually companies like head are going to look like theyre trying to convince adults that santa claus still exists.
 
A

axlrose

Professional
Moveforwardalways said:
Actually, I do not think many rec tennis players would buy pro stock racquets. Why? Pro stocks require the player to provide the power and spin. Any normal rec 3.5 player who demos a retail Pure Aero and a pro stock frame is going to buy the retail Pure Aero 9 times out of 10. When you ask them, they will tell you how much worse they played with the pro stock.
Click to expand...

Exactly. A Pure Drive or Aero Pro Drive is 100 times better than a TGK238.1 in an amateur's hand.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
jxs653 said:
It never occurs to me people play poorly because of lack of selection. Head's adding pro spec racquets to their provision will satisfy people's curiosity for a while but it won't help people play any better.
Click to expand...

That is wrong in two ways.

First, there are people that look for those pro specs to start customising their raquet, so there will be people who are going to use such an offer.

Second, for the majority of people it is not about playing better, but associating themselves with the game in a more genuine way.

Offering them what is essentially a fake, only exacerbates the fact that they are not even remotely close to playing a decent game, so they are both hacks and fools (for buying into the marketing).

:cool:
 
tennisBIEST

tennisBIEST

Professional
The really really fun thing to me is that these racquet companies GIVE these “special racquets” away for FREE!!!
 
PBODY99

PBODY99

Legend
I understand the longing for a frame from 20 years ago.
I do think that if companies set up a cu$tom $hop, players would drop the money, if the frames were produced to tight tolerances, with spare bumper kits included in the package price.
Well we can dream.
 
D

Djokovicfan

Professional
Tennis_Hands said:
That is wrong in two ways.

First, there are people that look for those pro specs to start customising their raquet, so there will be people who are going to use such an offer.

Second, for the majority of people it is not about playing better, but associating themselves with the game in a more genuine way.

Offering them what is essentially a fake, only exacerbates the fact that they are not even remotely close to playing a decent game, so they are both hacks and fools (for buying into the marketing).

:cool:
Click to expand...
What kind of racquet are you calling a fake? The rf97 or a racquet that a pro endorses but doesnt play with?
I agree with what i think you are saying tho.
 
D

Djokovicfan

Professional
kimguroo said:
Wow. You still believe there is magical rackets......
Also pro stock does not mean you will play like pros.
.
Click to expand...
THANKS FOR INFORMING US WITH THIS GROUNDBREAKING NEWS.
Ill sound the alarm and get in touch with tv broadcasters so they can spread this news across the world. To think that everybody thought that picking up a pros racquet would make you play like that pro, and they had no idea it was all just a myth! Please help me spread this message to everybody, i dont think anybody besides you and I knows this!
 
D

Djokovicfan

Professional
kimguroo said:
Because they think they are better than Federer hahahaha
Click to expand...
Noting that what you said probly wasnt that funny to anyone other than you, youre just left looking confused. Its good that you said what you said though, because you highlight the ineptitude of people who act like you need tennis superpowers to hold a true “king arther sword in the stone” ”hattori hanzo steel” special racquet that a pro uses. Id be surprised if any less than all of you who talk down to people telling them they arent good enough or strong enough to use a pro stock werent projecting frustration that you yourselves were too weak/too clumsy to play well with a racquet with typical pro stock specifications. We get it, youre better than the average player, and you cant play well with such a racquet; but stop assuming that just bc you fell short means everybody you ever communicate with will also fall short. Its 2 year old logic, and doesnt apply to reality.
 
Harry_Wild

Harry_Wild

G.O.A.T.
Djokovicfan said:
I understand that racquet companies, in order to maximize profits, try to market each new racquet as being better than the last one. Isnt this kind of a hopeless pursuit, when more and more people are getting truthful information from the internet? Doesnt head realize that if they started to sell djokers racquet almost untouched like wilson honorably did the rf97, people would buy it like crazy? Why not at least sell racquets that start with the same core/layout as djokers racquet but with some modern tweaks to make it more player friendly? Just because most ppl wouldnt be able to deal with the weight of djokers racquet doesnt mean there arent TONS of people out there who would play BETTER with it. If head doesnt want to sell it themselves they should at least sell the design plans to a third party manufacturers. I see tons of people using the rf97. As much as wilsons QC is apparently degenerate, they should be given praise for selling (close to) feds racquet.
Click to expand...

There are not enough players worldwide that are 4.5 and above that could actually play with a pro stock frame. This has been a on go discussion going back over 30 years when racquet manufacturers stop making such frames.:D
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Harry_Wild said:
There are not enough players worldwide that are 4.5 and above that could actually play with a pro stock frame. This has been a on go discussion going back over 30 years when racquet manufacturers stop making such frames.:D
Click to expand...

So, who are all those people buying that RF 97 frame, and what wooden frames people used before the age of technology arrived?

:cool:
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Djokovicfan said:
What kind of racquet are you calling a fake? The rf97 or a racquet that a pro endorses but doesnt play with?
I agree with what i think you are saying tho.
Click to expand...

The second.

I consider the bone stock RF 97 a pro raquet.

The customizations can be done for anyone who is willing to pay.

:cool:
 
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