Blake Handed QF Entry ... Then NOT. What's Fair? >>>

P

pound cat

G.O.A.T.
Reuters, The Associated PressPublished: March 2, 2007

TENNIS

The defending champion James Blake was handed a quarter-final berth at the Las Vegas Open after the ATP reversed a quirk in the rules of its new round-robin format that had seen him ousted in bizarre fashion.

Needing to beat the Argentine Juan Martín del Potro on Thursday with the loss of no more than five games to advance to the quarter-final, Blake, the top seed, was leading, 6-1, 3-1, when his opponent retired because of breathing problems, handing the American a walkover.

However, Blake was then told he would not advance as the rules said that games won or lost in a walkover did not count. His place would go to Evgeny Korolev on a head-to-head basis after the Russian beat Blake earlier in the competition. After lengthy discussions, however, the ATP backtracked and awarded Blake a place in the final eight. (Reuters)

Safin and Hewitt have spoken out and are furious. Korolev has learned his first lesson about how the ATP works. Blake thinks it's fair.

Who here thinks they did the right/wrong thing?
 
illkhiboy

illkhiboy

Hall of Fame
Hmm. Well obviously the rules need to be worked on. I guess the rules should have been followed and Blake ousted. But it would be unfair to Blake wouldnt it? He was well on his way to getting a victory with the loss of less than 5 games. The ATP think-tank should have come up with a system beforehand, that is, a pro-active one than the reactive last-minute decision they came up with. It just reflects poorly on the competition and ATP.
 
dubsplayer

dubsplayer

Semi-Pro
No.

And Blake should be ashamed of himself for accepting the berth into the qtrs even if the original rule was stupid to begin win. I'm not a big fan of his but now I've completely lost any iota of respect for him.
 
dima

dima

Banned
I think it was unfair to begin with, so whatever they did, it could only make it worse.
 
larlarbd

larlarbd

Banned
OutRageous , Blake should be ousted & the qtrs place should be given to FEDERER ( as he has been so lucky this year & being handed the AUS2007 trophy by gonzo - why not this one ) ?
Just Kidding . Blake should not have taken the place for free neither should he handover it to the other guys - stick with the original rule as they started playing with . Then after tourney file complaint against the rule if it seems unfair .
 
M

mica

New User
I'm a huge Blake fan, but I think it's unfair to Korolev. The rules are what they are, and if they need to be changed, in the middle of a tournament is not the time to do it. Unfortunately, I also think the rule itself is unfair,although to a lesser extent. Apparently JMDP was also unaware of the rule and stated yesterday, that had he known, he would have just played out the match seeing as it was almost over anyway. In a case like this where the outcome of a tournament turns on so many variables, perhaps the tournament officials should have notified the players of all the possible consequences in a more proactive way? Granted it's the probably the player's responsibility to familiarize themselves with the rules, but still, it's a tough situation and it's the ATP that created it, not the players. I would bet that 90 percent of the players didn't know.

The rule just presents too many potential problems. Imagine if, for instance, JMDP and Korolev were good friends and the same set of circumstances occurred, except JMPD wasn't really having any medical problems other than perhaps exhaustion, but felt that there was no way he could win. Then he decides to withdraw, effectively getting his friend into the quarterfinals and denying the other guy the chance even though he was playing the match he needed to play to advance. The rules should not leave openings for that kind of strategizing.
 
JRstriker12

JRstriker12

Hall of Fame
Here's the inside story from tennis mag. http://tennisworld.typepad.com/travelblogue/

The ATP basically put Blake in a bad postion - as Safin says in the tennis mag piece linked above. If he turns down the advance, he basically messes over the tourney direcotrs who paid his $300,000 appreance fee, if he accepts, then he looks bad.

Personally, I am a bit disappointed in Blake, that he didn't turn down the offer to go through the the QF - it would have been beyind classy and a great show of sports man ship in the face of a serious screw-up by the ATP. But then again, what pro tennis player in their right mind would want to do advance to the next round of any tournament?

Really the ATP needs to either fix this problem or bannish the round robin format. TO make matters worse, the recently happened at another ATP event.

FWIW - Korolev did receive $11,000 even tough he was bumped from the draw.
 
malakas

malakas

Banned
JRstriker12 said:
Here's the inside story from tennis mag. http://tennisworld.typepad.com/travelblogue/

The ATP basically put Blake in a bad postion - as Safin says in the tennis mag piece linked above. If he turns down the advance, he basically messes over the tourney direcotrs who paid his $300,000 appreance fee, if he accepts, then he looks bad.

Personally, I am a bit disappointed in Blake, that he didn't turn down the offer to go through the the QF - it would have been beyind classy and a great show of sports man ship in the face of a serious screw-up by the ATP. But then again, what pro tennis player in their right mind would want to do advance to the next round of any tournament?

Really the ATP needs to either fix this problem or bannish the round robin format. TO make matters worse, the recently happened at another ATP event.

FWIW - Korolev did receive $11,000 even tough he was bumped from the draw.
Click to expand...

yeah don't victimise now Blake.He's the one who advanced taking Korolev's rightfull place.:roll:
And did you read his interview?He just tries to suck up to DeVil liers.

Korolev wasn't granted any ATP points.They just tried to shut him up with some money.Isn't it strange that "he wasn't available for a comment" ? :roll:
 
Feña14

Feña14

G.O.A.T.
Round Robin's are rubbish at the best of times but now they do this?

You can't blame Blake for taking it but it is unfair on Korolev, especially after Korolev beat Blake in the Round Robin.

I guess Blake is what the fans want to see (not me personally, i'd prefer to see the youngster Korolev) so that's why the ATP did it.

You have to ask yourself the question; if it was Korolev who had missed out because of Del Potro retiring, would the ATP of done the same thing for him?

I think not!
 
T

tintin

Professional
what kind of rubbish thing is that?:mad:
the spot should have gone to Korolev breathing problems or not
the ATP is rubbish to award the spot to Blake cause he sure as hell doesn't deserve it
I hope he gets bounced next round
 
E

EuroMagnum

Rookie
It's perfectly fair. It's not Blake's fault that the other guy had breathing problems and couldn't continue. I think this rule really needs to be re-written, because as it is, if you didn't want someone to continue in the tournament all you have to do is play them and retire and they're out.
 
dubsplayer

dubsplayer

Semi-Pro
"TO make matters worse, the recently happened at another ATP event."

Yes it did but nothing was done in the middle of BsAs to change that result. This smacks of favoritism to an American player playing in an American tourney.

If it was Korolov who was playing JMdP - does anyone in their right mind think the rule would have been reversed?
 
C

Condoleezza

Banned
pound cat said:
Reuters, The Associated PressPublished: March 2, 2007

TENNIS

The defending champion James Blake was handed a quarter-final berth at the Las Vegas Open after the ATP reversed a quirk in the rules of its new round-robin format that had seen him ousted in bizarre fashion.

Needing to beat the Argentine Juan Martín del Potro on Thursday with the loss of no more than five games to advance to the quarter-final, Blake, the top seed, was leading, 6-1, 3-1, when his opponent retired because of breathing problems, handing the American a walkover.

However, Blake was then told he would not advance as the rules said that games won or lost in a walkover did not count. His place would go to Evgeny Korolev on a head-to-head basis after the Russian beat Blake earlier in the competition. After lengthy discussions, however, the ATP backtracked and awarded Blake a place in the final eight. (Reuters)

Safin and Hewitt have spoken out and are furious. Korolev has learned his first lesson about how the ATP works. Blake thinks it's fair.

Who here thinks they did the right/wrong thing?
Click to expand...

Blake is American, no?
And where is Las Vegas .... ?
Hmmm .....
;)

Enuff said.


Condi
 
D

dmitat

New User
Korolev has to sue ATP!!! He has same amount of sets as Blake and 18 games against Blake's 15. If Blake - DP would continue play no one knows what would happen. He could twist his ankle or something else... Blake was lucky enough to get a second chance to get back into the tournament with this new format.
If ATP came up with its rules they have to be punished for breaking them. And Korolev should be awarded QF points and prise money as no one is going to stop Blake from playing now. They already sold all possible advertisement and stadium seats on his name. ATP would keep him there even if they would need to put him on life support.
 
malakas

malakas

Banned
EuroMagnum said:
It's perfectly fair. It's not Blake's fault that the other guy had breathing problems and couldn't continue. I think this rule really needs to be re-written, because as it is, if you didn't want someone to continue in the tournament all you have to do is play them and retire and they're out.
Click to expand...

I think you didn't understand the situation.
Bottom line:According to the rules Korolev should advance but Blake with the help of the ATP stole his place.
 
dubsplayer

dubsplayer

Semi-Pro
EuroMagnum said:
It's perfectly fair. It's not Blake's fault that the other guy had breathing problems and couldn't continue. I think this rule really needs to be re-written, because as it is, if you didn't want someone to continue in the tournament all you have to do is play them and retire and they're out.
Click to expand...

Yes, the rule needs to be re-written ( though in all likely rr is going to be binned) but you don't re-write a rule in the middle of a tournament!
 
vive le beau jeu !

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
mica said:
I'm a huge Blake fan, but I think it's unfair to Korolev. The rules are what they are, and if they need to be changed, in the middle of a tournament is not the time to do it. Unfortunately, I also think the rule itself is unfair,although to a lesser extent. Apparently JMDP was also unaware of the rule and stated yesterday, that had he known, he would have just played out the match seeing as it was almost over anyway. In a case like this where the outcome of a tournament turns on so many variables, perhaps the tournament officials should have notified the players of all the possible consequences in a more proactive way? Granted it's the probably the player's responsibility to familiarize themselves with the rules, but still, it's a tough situation and it's the ATP that created it, not the players. I would bet that 90 percent of the players didn't know.

The rule just presents too many potential problems. Imagine if, for instance, JMDP and Korolev were good friends and the same set of circumstances occurred, except JMPD wasn't really having any medical problems other than perhaps exhaustion, but felt that there was no way he could win. Then he decides to withdraw, effectively getting his friend into the quarterfinals and denying the other guy the chance even though he was playing the match he needed to play to advance. The rules should not leave openings for that kind of strategizing.
Click to expand...
i agree with most of what you've said.
excepted for one point : "90 % of the players didn't know".
according to what hewitt said, most of the players knew.

Hewitt said he and several other players had been told the rule by the ATP before del Potro's withdrawal.
"Me and a few other guys were sitting in the players lounge watching the match. We said, 'is there any way that Korolev gets though?' And they said, 'if del Potro withdraws'. Even on TV they were saying it, so everyone was aware of the rule."The rules are in place -- you can't do anything about that. So that's why I'm a little bit gobsmacked. It really is amazing."
Click to expand...
see : http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=120999&page=2#39

they created an ankward and unacceptable situation... and they made it even worse by changing the rules in the middle of the tournament, instead of applying the rules, admitting their system purely sucks, learning the lesson and changing it before it happens again in another tournament.

it's tennis, not circus.
 
The Grand Slam

The Grand Slam

Hall of Fame
Safin and Hewitt have spoken out and are furious. Korolev has learned his first lesson about how the ATP works. Blake thinks it's fair.
Click to expand...

I just lost whatever tiny, miniscule speck of respect I had for Blake.
 
MasterTS

MasterTS

Professional
Shame on your blakey.. hope you drop out of the top 10 and land yourself back finishining school in harvard.
 
AsgerHO

AsgerHO

Rookie
It´s absurd! i can´t belive it happened. But hey well, Blake is american, Las vegas is in the US, what can you expect.

Check the RR thread as well, the poll thread, I have mentioned it there as well
 
T

tuk

Rookie
That's why round robin format is such a joke...Blake should have been out when he lost to Korolev to begin with if it wasn't for the round robin format...
you win then you advance (no mather how did you do it, or how many games you lost in the process), you lose then you're out, that's the way it has always been and that's the way it should be....
I don't really pay attention to what goes on in joke tournaments, but now that you mention it....what Blake should do is go to tournaments that real men play, like Dubai, Acapulco or even some NO ROUND ROBIN Challenger:grin:....just kidding....but still round robin sucks....
 
Ash Doyle

Ash Doyle

Professional
Changing the rules in the middle of a tournament to make the tournament directors happy kills the integrity of the sport big time. This is a major knock against ATP tennis.

It's a bad situation for Blake, but it does lower my opinion of him a little if accepts the quaterfinal like this. He's in a bad situation...damned if he does, damned if he doesn't; but I'd like to think in the same situation I would be a better sportsman and do the fair thing.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Too much at stake here for TTC. Attendance and viewership would strongly depend on Blake going thru.

As someone pointed out, the fact that he is American must have played a role. When the Bryans found their careers in jeopardy, they sued the ATP, which then settled for lesser changes. The case against the ATP was pretty sketchy - something about financial wrongdoing. The governing board has every right to do whatever they want, actually. Rumor is that the Bryans threatened to expose the appearance fees for singles players. Also, they got US heavyweights like JMac and Martina on their side.

As far as Korolev goes, he probably gave up his rights to sue if he verbally agreed to do so in exchange for more money. There would be witnesses to the verbal conversation.
 
malakas

malakas

Banned
I don't think that Korolev was so easily persuaded.Not according to what Hewitt said anyway.But James Blake was quick to state that Eugeny a nice guy and wouldn't mind because that was commonsense (to him!) what happened and that he would probably be on his way to IW by now!:rolleyes: And that not going deep into a tournament wouldn't hurt Korolev since he would have plenty of chances to get deep in many tournaments in the future!:roll:

Blake,keeps falling lower and lower in my eyes.I guess Spadea was right about him.
 
G

Green

Guest
If you read the statement made by the ATP ceo carefully, it seems Del Potro's statement that he could have finished the match played an important part in the ATP's decision. If he had just kept quiet, I believe Korolev would be advancing. However, by saying he was capable of continuing to play, he basically forced the ATP into a corner by raising the fear of the very situation the ATP most wants to avoid: a player losing or retiring on purpose for the benefit of another player.

I understand why people here are upset but I don't understand why no one criticizes Del Potro for retiring from a match he was able to continue. To me, this is just as big a deal because it also calls into question the integrity of the sport.
 
malakas

malakas

Banned
Oh pleaseee what he was going to say??That he would stop playing anyway so that Blake would disqualify??It's extremely ridiculous that they try to pull unefficient explanations as a reason for this shame!
Not only did Blake know about this,since he was the VC of the players council,the same council that had signed these same rules!But he also had already played in previous RR tournies!And everyone knew about this rule as Hewitt said.They mentioned it even in the TV all the time.

Besides since when ignorance of the laws negates any wrongdoing??:roll:
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Green said:
If you read the statement made by the ATP ceo carefully, it seems Del Potro's statement that he could have finished the match played an important part in the ATP's decision. If he had just kept quiet, I believe Korolev would be advancing. However, by saying he was capable of continuing to play, he basically forced the ATP into a corner by raising the fear of the very situation the ATP most wants to avoid: a player losing or retiring on purpose for the benefit of another player.

I understand why people here are upset but I don't understand why no one criticizes Del Potro for retiring from a match he was able to continue. To me, this is just as big a deal because it also calls into question the integrity of the sport.
Click to expand...

You are right. But Del Potro is a nobody and who exactly knows how sick/injured he was? On the other hand, the ATP CEO and TTC TDs are rich and powerful guys, and so people's attention falls on them. Their decision is much more far-reaching that one player faking it or not.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
malakas said:
Blake,keeps falling lower and lower in my eyes.I guess Spadea was right about him.
Click to expand...

I think every competitive, successful person is like that, to be honest.

Read the accounts of sandbagging and cheating in 3.5/4.0 leagues and you will see how people behave even when there is no financial gain.

All these guys came thru the junior ranks, where it is parents and children cheating at all costs. Then come the satellites, challengers and futures, where it is make or break, but no money. That kind of mentality is hard to forgo overnite.

And outwardly they have to pretend to be nice guys, as that is what the press and sponsors want these days - role models for kids, playing charities, etc.
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
A win is a win, so Blake actually deserves to be in the QF, but you cant just change the rules, however stupid they are, mid tournament. Korolev should have been let through, with the rules being changed AFTER the tournament is over.

Better yet, how about just get rid of the round robin format altogether.
 
G

Green

Guest
malakas said:
Oh pleaseee what he was going to say??That he would stop playing anyway so that Blake would disqualify??It's extremely ridiculous that they try to pull unefficient explanations as a reason for this shame!
Not only did Blake know about this,since he was the VC of the players council,the same council that had signed these same rules!But he also had already played in previous RR tournies!And everyone knew about this rule as Hewitt said.They mentioned it even in the TV all the time.

Besides since when ignorance of the laws negates any wrongdoing??:roll:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand your point. My point is that Del Potro basically admitted retiring from a match he could have continued and in the process eliminated the player (Blake) who more than likely would have anvanced under the rules. How is the ATP supposed to tolerate this?
 
malakas

malakas

Banned
sureshs said:
I think every competitive, successful person is like that, to be honest.

Read the accounts of sandbagging and cheating in 3.5/4.0 leagues and you will see how people behave even when there is no financial gain.

All these guys came thru the junior ranks, where it is parents and children cheating at all costs. Then come the satellites, challengers and futures, where it is make or break, but no money. That kind of mentality is hard to forgo overnite.

And outwardly they have to pretend to be nice guys, as that is what the press and sponsors want these days - role models for kids, playing charities, etc.
Click to expand...

yes you are right.One of the few good things that can come out of this,is actually that Blake has fallen from his saint pedestal and been revealed to all the fans and his fellow players.No more mr congressman nice guy James!
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Blake should give 50% of whatever he makes from now on in the tourney (minus tennis-related expenses) to Korolev.
 
Supernatural_Serve

Supernatural_Serve

Professional
There are rules, and then there are rules for "special" people.

Way to go Blake, way to show all the fans and kids

- the meaning of sportsmanship
- how to take anything you can get
- and how rules mean nothing

What a degenerate low life.
 
D

deucecourt

Rookie
No way is it fair to the Russian. However I think delPotro tanked on purpose trailing 3-1 in the second set so Blake wouldn't advance.
 
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