Are line judges penalized for making bad calls?

TagUrIt said:

Something I’ve always wondered, I know it’s their job, but generally there can repercussions to doing your job badly. Do line judges get an allowance of bad calls a year/season? What about the contrary, are they rewarded when a player challenges and haweye show that they made the correct call?

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Sentinel said:

Their prize money is reduced by a few thousand dollars per bad call.

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TagUrIt said:

Something I’ve always wondered, I know it’s their job, but generally there can repercussions to doing your job badly. Do line judges get an allowance of bad calls a year/season? What about the contrary, are they rewarded when a player challenges and haweye show that they made the correct call?

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TagUrIt said:

Something I’ve always wondered, I know it’s their job, but generally there can repercussions to doing your job badly. Do line judges get an allowance of bad calls a year/season? What about the contrary, are they rewarded when a player challenges and haweye show that they made the correct call?

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Sudacafan said:

Are line judges penalized for making bad calls?

Ask Ramos.

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TagUrIt said:

Something I’ve always wondered, I know it’s their job, but generally there can repercussions to doing your job badly. Do line judges get an allowance of bad calls a year/season? What about the contrary, are they rewarded when a player challenges and haweye show that they made the correct call?

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SystemicAnomaly said:

Fallacious assumption. We should not assume that HawkEye is infallible. There are undoubtedly times when the linesperson has actually made the correct call and HawekEye's calculated approximation reverses that correct call. Last I heard, the average accuracy for the HE system was 3.6 mm. So those HE calls where it shows the ball to be 1-2 mm (or even 3-5 mm) In or Out could very well be Wrong.

Perhaps we should penalize HE for making incorrect calls.
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SystemicAnomaly said:

Fallacious assumption. We should not assume that HawkEye is infallible. There are undoubtedly times when the linesperson has actually made the correct call and HawekEye's calculated approximation reverses that correct call. Last I heard, the average accuracy for the HE system was 3.6 mm. So those HE calls where it shows the ball to be 1-2 mm (or even 3-5 mm) In or Out could very well be Wrong.

Perhaps we should penalize HE for making incorrect calls.
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Hmgraphite1 said:

By an large the human error machine was way worse, saw calls this year that 2-3 inches or more wrong by the humans heye is awesome. You cannot be serious

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Rattler said:

I don’t doubt it, but I have a question. What round was the tournament in, when you saw these errors?

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heninfan99 said:

yes. they are assigned to work Kyrgios and Fognini matches as punishment.

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Hmgraphite1 said:

Believe it was early rounds in October

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Hmgraphite1 said:

By an large the human error machine was way worse, saw calls this year that 2-3 inches or more wrong by the humans heye is awesome. You cannot be serious

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SystemicAnomaly said:

@Rattler


Au contraire, I am quite serious. My primary point is that neither the HE system nor the certified (human) linesperson is infallible. When HE reverses a call made by a linesperson, the HE call must be accepted but there is no guarantee that HE is actually right and the human is wrong. Note that the stated HE accuracy, 3.6mm, means that half the time HE's error will be 3.6mm or less and half the time its error will be 3.6mm or greater.

Note that the HE is a projected (calculated) guess based on the ball's pre-bounce trajectory. HE never (or almost never) see the actual bounce event. A competent/certified linesperson should see the actual bounce most/nearly all of the time. Sure, a human linesperson will space out every once in a while (due to boredom, fatigue, etc) but I would say that errors of 2-3 inches by a certified linesperson would not happen very often. Under what circumstances did you witness this much error from an actual linesperson?

Note that I had witnessed quite a few HE errors in two (back-to-back) matches at the BOW Classic (Stanford) where shots that appeared to be more than 6" long were deemed to by IN by the HE system. In these matches, there was a moderately strong wind with pretty strong gusts along the length of the court. If the wind gusts occurred just prior to (and during) the bounce, HE got it wrong. This error was quite evident to the chair umpires, to the linepersons and to many, if not most, of us watching the match.

I doubt that this much error from the HE system happens very often, but it can occur. I believe that there may have been times when it had been requested that the HE system be turned off for a match.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2013/jul/08/hawk-eye-wimbledon
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junior74 said:

They should lose one finger for every bad call. That will teach them a lesson.

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Rattler said:

Kinda what I suspected...these are usually staffed with more...inexperienced line umpires.

They are usually nervous, (who wouldn’t be?) and not usually comfortable with Hawkeye...if they are on a show court...so errors happen.

I’d be surprised by really bad errors in later rounds, but they do happen.

Was this an ATP or WTA event?

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SystemicAnomaly said:

@Rattler


Au contraire, I am quite serious. My primary point is that neither the HE system nor the certified (human) linesperson is infallible. When HE reverses a call made by a linesperson, the HE call must be accepted but there is no guarantee that HE is actually correct and the human is wrong. Note that the stated HE accuracy, 3.6mm, means that some of the time its error will be 3.6mm or greater. Half the time?

Note that the HE is a projected (calculated) guess based on the ball's pre-bounce trajectory. HE never (or almost never) see the actual bounce event. A competent/certified linesperson should see the actual bounce most/nearly all of the time. Sure, a human linesperson will space out every once in a while (due to boredom, fatigue, etc) but I would say that errors of 2-3 inches by a certified linesperson would not happen very often. Under what circumstances did you witness this much error from an actual linesperson?

Note that I had witnessed quite a few HE errors in two (back-to-back) matches at the BOW Classic (Stanford) where shots that appeared to be more than 6" long were deemed to by IN by the HE system. In these matches, there was a moderately strong wind with pretty strong gusts along the length of the court. If the wind gusts occurred just prior to (and during) the bounce, HE got it wrong. This error was quite evident to the chair umpires, to the linepersons and to many, if not most, of us watching the match.

I doubt that this much error from the HE system happens very often, but it can occur. I believe that there may have been times when it had been requested that the HE system be turned off for a match.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2013/jul/08/hawk-eye-wimbledon
.

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tennytive said:

I was a line judge and worked tournaments for Virginia Slims and Volvo in Chicago. We were trained not to look at the ball, look at the line instead. It's technique and experience more than how perfect your eyesight may be. As Rattler said, performance good or bad went into consideration for following rounds and finals. We used less than full crews in early rounds which meant calling the center line on serves and running to your sideline after. Finals had full crews and best position was center line… one call and you could watch the rest of the point courtside, best view anyone could have. I had to call serves one match between Roscoe Tanner and Borg but by then they were on the exhibition tour so not as hard as when they were in their primes.

As far as Hawkeye goes, I differ with their interpretation that a ball can touch a fraction of the line as fine as the sliver of the ball outline they occasionally show on replays. Even compressed to the max my guess is that only 45 to 50% of the bottom of the ball at most would contact the court which means that even though from above the ball would look to have caught the line, the edge of the ball would not be in contact with the court. However the powers that be have ruled that HE is the final word so it is what it is.

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