Dominic Thiem's six hours daily workout
- Thread starter Lukhas
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MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
This dude is probably going to be so burnt out by the time he's 30.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Should be training tactics instead
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
I admire Dom's fitness but you're so right. He's been with Bresnik since he was 7 or 8 years old; it's time to inject some new blood into his coaching staff. Ball bashing and extremely lousy point construction off clay need to be addressed.
This guy below is newly divorced, newly bankrupt (again) and could help him with all these issues. Hire Boris, Dom!!!
ST VINCENT FAN
Rookie
I got burnt out just watching that
OldschoolKIaus
Hall of Fame
Thiem's biggest talent: achieving so much despite having Bresnik as his coach.
D
Deleted member 763024
Guest
Rafa needs his cannon fodder to be in good shape.
Purplemonster
Hall of Fame
Another problem he has which has held him back from more success is that he is way too nice and lacks the killer instinct to become a champion. He needs someone like Lendl as his coach. Lendl was a brute on the court and his goal was to win big titles and not just participate which is what Thiem does.
Rafa.the.Magnificent
G.O.A.T.
I'm full of admiration but just no! It's too much and it will hurt more than help. My 2 cents. Gotta love him, though!
And edited to add: Hope I'm entirely wrong.
And edited to add: Hope I'm entirely wrong.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
In fairness, Lendl was 10 times the player Dom is or will ever be. Lendl also choked away endless big matches and ended up 8-11 in major finals. He was 1-6 in the first seven slam finals he played, so not a "brute" at all in many respects.
Edberg was incredibly nice and gentle but still won 6 slams because he was a great player who had phenomenal gifts. Dom isn't in that league either. He's losing not because he's too nice, but because he's not as great as the guys winning majors.
wangs78
Legend
He’s doing way too much off court jogging. If he is trying to build stamina, then have him do drills followed by running halfway round the court or something. Running on a track and all that jumping up and down the stairs just looks like pointless wear and tear that will cause his knees to give out prematurely.
Zardoz7/12
Hall of Fame
Murray and Thiem have some of the most brutal training regimes and whilst it's paid dividends to both of their careers, their gruelling regimes surely take there tolls on their body?
I don't know Federer's training regime but whatever he does pays dividends without physical issues.
I don't know Federer's training regime but whatever he does pays dividends without physical issues.
OldschoolKIaus
Hall of Fame
I remember when I was young,Bresnik was scouting at the local tennis club (he worked together with one of the local trainer). Around 1997 or so.
All he said to me was: "Ah, ein Lefty!" which means "Ah, a lefty!".
Nobody of us local kids became a pro player lol
But it was already known back in those days that Bresnik was a drill-to-success coach. Brutal. Hard work.
All he said to me was: "Ah, ein Lefty!" which means "Ah, a lefty!".
Nobody of us local kids became a pro player lol
But it was already known back in those days that Bresnik was a drill-to-success coach. Brutal. Hard work.
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D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
If there was a scintilulla of truth to that surely he would bow out in the futures circuits or at the very least in round 1.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Stan is a teddy bear and look what he’s achieved.
Big_Dangerous
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm sure Fed and Nadal probably trained as hard in their younger days, but I do agree though, he spends all that time and still he only has one major final appearance and zero major titles to his name. At that point, you gotta realize that it's not about effort or shape. He's obviously fit enough to play 5 sets and 4 hours, but he needs to work on the more important aspects of the game - the mental part. Construct points better, become mentally stronger, and for goodness sakes, play fewer events. It seems like the guy plays a tournament nearly every week of the ATP Calendar.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
All 100% true, but it's almost impossible to become a mentally strong player when you're not, it's almost innate. The only great player I have ever seen become mentally a beast when they started out mentally fragile was Djokovic. Mentally strong players are few and far between: Mac, Pete, Boris, Nadal and a handful of others (and no, Federer isn't in that league). Maybe Thiem believes supreme fitness will gift him mental strength, but he wilts in big matches in slams. Hope he can overcome that, but it's going to be extremely difficult to "learn" mental toughness.
I don't know what Thiem thinks about that but Bresnik has stated time and time again that mental strength comes from being better prepared (physically and technically) than your opponent and the rest is nonsense. So yeah, not going to happen anytime soon.
He still plays a lot of events but much less than he used to, btw. He played 75 matches in 2018. Zverev played 83, Tsitsipas played 86, Nishikori 70...
E36BMWM3
Hall of Fame
I think about this and then I think about the drive and love they have for the game. The ultimate reward would be the big titles, but being able to play day-in and day-out at the highest possible levels is perhaps a reward for him in an of itself...
ibbi
G.O.A.T.
There are definitely guys on the tour who you can tell by now don't really care about taking that extra step and are just happy travelling all over the planet, playing tennis, and making their living - Tsonga, Monfils, Gasquet, etc. Sounds like a dream life.
But for a guy in what are supposed to be the prime years of his career to not be trying anything noticeably different to go beyond where he's gotten to already. To just be happy to be at the level he's at? How can he be resigned to that already?? I mean I suppose technically he has had the best fall swing of his career to date, but... The steps still seem too small and inconsistent to me.
Rafa.the.Magnificent
G.O.A.T.
Why would you say Federer isn't in the league with mentally strong players, @BeatlesFan? I know you must mean something very specific?
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
@Rafa.the.Magnificent
Short and sweet:
There is no way Pete Sampras, Boris Becker or Mac would ever have lost the slam finals listed below. Fed lost these ones due to mental fragility:
1. Wimbledon 2008
2. AO 2009
3. USO 2009
4. Wimbledon 2014
Sampras, Mac, Becker or Connors also would have learned by 2006 to expect 95% of Nadal's serves to be kicked high to the BH and they would either have learned how to hit a reply or punish these balls when they came so predictably. None of those guys lost so many endless matches while holding MP's either, as Fed continues to do.
Federer is a greater and more talented player than Rafa, but is nowhere near Rafa's mental strength IMO.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Were any of them playing at 33 like Fed did in Wimbledon 2014?
Big_Dangerous
Talk Tennis Guru
Now did he play 75 matches because he lost earlier than usual in some events? Gotta factor that into the equation. You make a deeper run, especially at the majors and bigger events with bigger draws, then you'll play more matches. However, if you flame out in the first or second round of several tournaments and your total matches played on the season gets cut down a bit.
Big_Dangerous
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't why you would say Fed isn't in that league. I mean, especially given 2017's resurgence, I'd say he's earned his way into that realm.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
He had that injury during IW at least, which forced him to retire and miss Miami.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
some weird serve drill he is doing. what is that ? and also what is that red band he is wearing on his chest ?
Big_Dangerous
Talk Tennis Guru
To be fair for #1 and #3 on that list, he was down in those matches and Rafa was getting better and better on surfaces outside of clay at that point. I mean Fed was down 2 sets to love against Nadal and not playing his best tennis for most of that year. Remember he lost to Nadal badly in the French Open final, and then before that he was surprisingly beaten by Djokovic in Australia in straight sets. I think it was pretty impressive that he rallied in the Wimbledon match to force 5 sets and have it go 9-7 in the 5th as well. I would make the argument that Rafa won that one, rather than Fed losing it due to mental fragility.
Same thing with Australia 2009. It was a great match that went 5 sets, but really it came down to who could play better in the 5th set, and that was clearly Nadal.
He played 25 events in total (that includes DC etc.).
Zverev = 25 events
Khachanov = 27 events
Tsitsipas = 32 events
Nishikori = 22 events
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
The point it that Federer should never have been in a fifth set with Nadal at the 2009 AO final, he should have wrapped it up in four sets. He was up a break in the first set, 4-2 and choked away that set. Nadal had just played a nearly 6 hour match with Verdasco and was clearly the inferior HC player to Fed in 2009. Fed utterly collapsed in the fifth set because his BH had been effectively destroyed and he couldn't stand it. It wasn't fatigue that did him in, it was mental fragility, IMO. I'm not trying to take credit from Rafa, he played amazing and deserved the win.
abmk
Bionic Poster
I don't know what you were watching, but Fed's BH was perfectly good in the AO 09 final.
It was Federer's serve that let him down in that match.
That built up pressure on him and that finally told on him in the 5th set with his game&mentality breaking down.
Otacon
Hall of Fame
I'm not convinced. None of the players you mentioned has ever dealt with someone of Nadal's caliber. Federer's problem was tactical and technical, not mental.
haqq777
Legend
Nice. I couldn't understand, where is he training? Location I mean. Nice courts.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
I watched the match again in its entirety last week. If you think his BH was "perfectly good," then please revisit his BP ratio in the match and how many BP's he blew on second serves to his BH. Weak slices into the net, time and time again.
abmk
Bionic Poster
There were a grand total of zero BHs into the net on BPs on 2nd serves from Federer.
Check it out in the point by point description here :
http://www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20090201-M-Australian_Open-F-Roger_Federer-Rafael_Nadal.html
That was Wimbledon 2008 final, not AO 09 final.
As far as overall BPs go, Federer was 6/19 on BPs.
Want to know the BP conversion in the AO 17 final ? 6/20.
As far as crucial points go, Fed's problems in the match were these :
could not hold on to a 4-2 lead in the 1st set, that's on the serve, not on the return.
could not convert on 3 BPs each in the last 2 return games in the 3rd set. Match could've turned very possibly in that.
4 UEs in the 3rd set TB incl. a DF on the final point.
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Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
Wild guess. Tenerife ?
More seriously, I don't think he mentioned the tennis club/hotel. They went here for the late day run:
http://tenerifetoptraining.com/en/training-camp/
He speaks perfect Terminator English.
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True Fanerer
G.O.A.T.
I'd like to point out that Federer was second only to Nadal this year at saving and converting break points. Pretty strong mentally IMO.
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/nadal-federer-break-points-infosys-dec-2018
https://www.atptour.com/en/news/nadal-federer-break-points-infosys-dec-2018
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
That match was perfect example of fraud's mental demons causing him lose the match.
Atleast five of his nadal losses are like this, where he had no business losing...
(Dubai 2006, Hamburg 2008, Australian open 2009, Wimbledon 2008 - putting powderpuff 2nd serve into net, 2011 madrid, with 2011 RG and 2012 AO being 50-50)
Bahia del Duque, Tenerife. Gulbis's physio has (or used to have? not sure) his clinic/office in that hotel. Since Gulbis started working with Bresnik (Thiem's coach) in 2012 they've always spent their pre-season there.
ak24alive
Legend
Speaking about Dominic's workout and it's payoff I think this is his off season workout which lays down the foundation for the whole year. Once the year starts I am sure he focuses more on the tennis specific training.
Now that the debate is about Roger's mental strength I would admit that although Rog is a solid mental spicemen he isn't in the same league as Nadal and Djoker.
However it should be noted that excluding the Nadal inflicted pain Fed has less upsets at the bigger stages at his peak than Djokodal had at their peak.
It's this guy Nadal against whom your mental ability and your patience is tested. But we will talk about that later. Lets talk about Federer's countless chokes once he went past his peak.
Throughout the 2010s Roger lost many matches he shouldn't have considering the pre match odds. There was a pattern in most of those matches. Federer chocked. Whenever he was in a position where it mattered a lot he choked. He lost his nerves. He rushed through it and ended up losing the point and hence the match.
I mean why would you take just 5-8 seconds to serve on a break point which is virtually a match point or a set point?
And why would you take the ball so early while facing a BP when you know that it has a higher risk involved with it?
I know you have played risk-reward tennis ever since you lost the physical edge but why not grind it out on important points like you used to when you were young?
I know fans here will say, "AGE".
But no it isn't just that. It's stubbornness. It's a sign of a lower(compared to Djokodal) adversity quotent. Much of Federer's unexpected losses since 2010 have been chokes.
Age and decline are the reasons for his losses in GS finals to Djoker. Although he did choke in a few of them too.
Djoker and Nadal will have lesser chokes than Roger going forward in the twilight of their careers simply because of their willingness to dig in again and again. But they will be outplayed more than Roger was since 2010 (obviously after adjusting for the fact that he had to face 2 of the GOATs in his post prime era). Why?
Well because they don't have that serve and that first strike game.
Now going back to the time when Nadal owned Fed in his own peak. We all know that Roger's problem against Rafa were technical and tactical which is why a comparison between Novak's good results and Fed's bad results against Rafa isn't particularly a good one. I wouldn't say that Roger neutralised his technical disadvantage against Rafa but he dealt well with it as his BH got better throughout his peak years. His tactics against Rafa where pretty solid too as he would attack with his FH creating angles and building pressure. He kept it very tight and most of the time he stood ahead of Rafa until Rafa snatched the most important points. Fed would serve pretty well, getting love or 15 games consistently even in some matches on clay. He would get a lead in the Nadal service game and then choke it. Why did he choke all these BPs?
Well he would attack on them prematurely (clearly he got nervous).
Trying to go into the net with bad approaches and getting passed.
Trying to go for the lines without proper point construction and ending up hitting it out or hitting it into the net.
Not having a proper attack-defence combo.
He went either all attack or all defensive.
He played the least important points the best way.
But played the most important points the worse way.
The finish line got to him. The journey suits Fred well. He gets nervous at the thought of it ending.
And Rafa was Rafa. Always there to punish bad play. Always waiting for the opportunity.
It is safe to say that Federer has the worst adversity quotent of the big 3. Yet it is quite high.
The bolded is not true of Novak vs Rafa.
So yeah I agree with @BeatlesFan on this one. Fed ain't in the same league as Nadalovic in the mental strength department.
Now that the debate is about Roger's mental strength I would admit that although Rog is a solid mental spicemen he isn't in the same league as Nadal and Djoker.
However it should be noted that excluding the Nadal inflicted pain Fed has less upsets at the bigger stages at his peak than Djokodal had at their peak.
It's this guy Nadal against whom your mental ability and your patience is tested. But we will talk about that later. Lets talk about Federer's countless chokes once he went past his peak.
Throughout the 2010s Roger lost many matches he shouldn't have considering the pre match odds. There was a pattern in most of those matches. Federer chocked. Whenever he was in a position where it mattered a lot he choked. He lost his nerves. He rushed through it and ended up losing the point and hence the match.
I mean why would you take just 5-8 seconds to serve on a break point which is virtually a match point or a set point?
And why would you take the ball so early while facing a BP when you know that it has a higher risk involved with it?
I know you have played risk-reward tennis ever since you lost the physical edge but why not grind it out on important points like you used to when you were young?
I know fans here will say, "AGE".
But no it isn't just that. It's stubbornness. It's a sign of a lower(compared to Djokodal) adversity quotent. Much of Federer's unexpected losses since 2010 have been chokes.
Age and decline are the reasons for his losses in GS finals to Djoker. Although he did choke in a few of them too.
Djoker and Nadal will have lesser chokes than Roger going forward in the twilight of their careers simply because of their willingness to dig in again and again. But they will be outplayed more than Roger was since 2010 (obviously after adjusting for the fact that he had to face 2 of the GOATs in his post prime era). Why?
Well because they don't have that serve and that first strike game.
Now going back to the time when Nadal owned Fed in his own peak. We all know that Roger's problem against Rafa were technical and tactical which is why a comparison between Novak's good results and Fed's bad results against Rafa isn't particularly a good one. I wouldn't say that Roger neutralised his technical disadvantage against Rafa but he dealt well with it as his BH got better throughout his peak years. His tactics against Rafa where pretty solid too as he would attack with his FH creating angles and building pressure. He kept it very tight and most of the time he stood ahead of Rafa until Rafa snatched the most important points. Fed would serve pretty well, getting love or 15 games consistently even in some matches on clay. He would get a lead in the Nadal service game and then choke it. Why did he choke all these BPs?
Well he would attack on them prematurely (clearly he got nervous).
Trying to go into the net with bad approaches and getting passed.
Trying to go for the lines without proper point construction and ending up hitting it out or hitting it into the net.
Not having a proper attack-defence combo.
He went either all attack or all defensive.
He played the least important points the best way.
But played the most important points the worse way.
The finish line got to him. The journey suits Fred well. He gets nervous at the thought of it ending.
And Rafa was Rafa. Always there to punish bad play. Always waiting for the opportunity.
It is safe to say that Federer has the worst adversity quotent of the big 3. Yet it is quite high.
The bolded is not true of Novak vs Rafa.
So yeah I agree with @BeatlesFan on this one. Fed ain't in the same league as Nadalovic in the mental strength department.
ak24alive
Legend
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