Updated Reconstructing my FH (Video+games)

G

Gyswandir

Semi-Pro
Last April I posted this for feedback: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/reconstructing-my-fh-video.614057/
In essence, I wasn’t happy with my FH’s lack of penetration, especially on no pace balls.

I had a rare chance to take 2 weeks off during the holidays and play with a coach almost daily. The good news is I’ve finally figured out how to achieve the result I want. The bad news is there is a lot more to work on, but I guess that is tennis :)
Something that does frustrate me though is that no one managed to give me the cue I needed or highlighted the issue causing my problems. I just discovered it with trial and error.
The coach told me it was too low a take back, kept on telling me to extend the racquet into the direction I am hitting for longer, that I have too many errors on spacing (this I agree with, but it was/is a secondary factor)...what I found that actually helped were 2 things
- make sure that you aggressively rotate the hitting shoulder through the stroke
- make sure your upper arm is moving with your shoulder
Just adopting those 2 things has fixed about 80% of the issues I had on my FH

The following videos are from my 7th session, where I finally started to”get it” and try applying it.
First is CC to 11. Second is a couple of games. The coach was definitely taking it easy and I was having a really bad serving day, somewhat related to the windy conditions.

Things I still need to work on
- I have too high an elbow on my serve. Need to bring it down a bit. However, this might be due to an old shoulder injury. Not sure yet.
- spacing is a problem that requires me to have better anticipation and footwork, which needs better fitness for which I really need to lose weight.
- consistency: it is too early for me to judge on the FH, as I’ve tinkered with it a lot in the past 2 weeks. I’ve gone to a much higher back “slot,” which makes my shots a bit flatter. Need to experiment and see what happens if I go back to my previous “slot.” Nonetheless, need a lot of reps with the changes I’ve made. Also, I can now finally start paying more attention to my bh.

One thing I am still unable to do, despite consciously trying to, is to get that typical pat the dog position on the FH. I would like to at least see how it affects my stroke. Anybody have an opinion?

@tennis_balla @J011yroger @nytennisaddict
 
ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I think your thrid point is probably the most important right now, that it is too early to judge. throw down a few weeks of reps and see how you feel. You really don't need 'pat-the-dog' and you have what I hear people call a flop (racquet drops in the slot on edge, which I do as well) instead of a true flip which is the racquet laying back more naturally. Is it bad? I see pros and college players do it and they compete just fine, so up to you how important it is. overall though I think you mechanics are good and worth driving for a while to see how they feel. And get in some match time to see how well they hold hold up under pressure.
 
C

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
There have been detailed posts on 'separation' recently. Imagine a line between the two shoulders and a line between the two hips. Imagine viewing those lines from above and the changing angle that they would form. That is the 'separation angle'. I've seen estimates of 20-30 degrees at maximum, probably for young athletes. The hip turn leads on the forward swing. The separation angle varies during the forehand's turning back and turning forward. I think Djokovic shows 'separation' well but he is more flexible than most ATP players so don't attempt angles as large as he can do. This involves twisting the back and trunk and there is a risk of injury if there is too much stress on the back.

The biomechanical purpose is to get more uppermost body turn speed from the muscles between the hips and shoulders. For that, more separation gives better range of motion, stretching of the spine and trunk muscles, and maybe more control(?). I first learned about separation in the tennis references by Elliott, Reid and Crespo and also some old ITF presentations that have nice illustrations of separation. Published in the early 2000s. Separation stands out when you watch high level forehands and backhands.

You tend to turn the shoulder and hips more together. Compare videos.

The off arm of high level forehands is held up and straight and accelerated forward, around and back just before the forward uppermost body turn. This builds up momentum in the arm and when it is suddenly pulled into the body it adds to rotation speed to the uppermost body. It could be used to adjust timing too by adjusting when the off arm is pulled in ?

For these issues, find high speed videos of high level forehands and study the timing of shoulders and hips turning back and then forward. Look at the above two issues and search the forum for posts with more details and pictures. I have posted on many forehands as most don't show much separation.

For seeing these issues overhead videos are especially informative if you and find them.
 
Last edited:
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Your number one issue is the extra 10 kg you carry in your torso. I wanted to emphasise although you’re already aware. A tip: Write down every single item you eat and drink for a week and see how many of those were not really necessary.
 
StringSnapper

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Curious said:
Your number one issue is the extra 10 kg you carry in your torso. I wanted to emphasise although you’re already aware. A tip: Write down every single item you eat and drink for a week and see how many of those were not really necessary.
Click to expand...
I've seen some guys in league who have extra 10kg in their torso and they seem to translate it directly into power into the ball, they just hit insanely powerful / fast shots. IDK how it works LOL, its probably that they were great at tennis when they were young, had the technique down etc, and then gained the kgs later etc. Maybe more torso rotational power due to the weight?
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
StringSnapper said:
I've seen some guys in league who have extra 10kg in their torso and they seem to translate it directly into power into the ball, they just hit insanely powerful / fast shots. IDK how it works LOL, its probably that they were great at tennis when they were young, had the technique down etc, and then gained the kgs later etc. Maybe more torso rotational power due to the weight?
Click to expand...
It’s the movement, not the power. Now you may say you’ve also seen fat guys moving well. Their bloody good anticipation gives that illusion.
 
NuBas

NuBas

Legend
Gyswandir said:
Something that does frustrate me though is that no one managed to give me the cue I needed or highlighted the issue causing my problems. I just discovered it with trial and error.
[/USER]
Click to expand...

Just cause you post for help on a Tennis forum, doesn't mean everyone here is gonna have answers to your problems. From what I remembered you looked fine and what you're describing, you failed to show a video from behind that actually showed your ball path and how you were hitting.

You only showed us a side video (which to me looked fine)
 
StringSnapper

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Curious said:
It’s the movement, not the power. Now you may say you’ve also seen fat guys moving well. Their bloody good anticipation gives that illusion.
Click to expand...
if force = speed x mass and someone is overweight by a few kg, its potential that their mass increases more than they lose speed to have a greater increase in force right?

Wawrinka maybe not the best example but he has a large torso (although yes very fit) body shape, where he can put amazing force behind the ball. He probably can't rotate as fast as some runt of a player like Gilles Simon for example, though
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
StringSnapper said:
if force = speed x mass and someone is overweight by a few kg, its potential that their mass increases more than they lose speed to have a greater increase in force right?

Wawrinka maybe not the best example but he has a large torso (although yes very fit) body shape, where he can put amazing force behind the ball. He probably can't rotate as fast as some runt of a player like Gilles Simon for example, though
Click to expand...
When I say fat I mean fat, not muscle!;)
 
NuBas

NuBas

Legend
Gyswandir said:
Click to expand...

Where are these courts?

You move nicely considering you could be more fit and move better. Your forehand technique is a bit off, sometimes you rotate your forearm cause you're late on the shot and arm the ball.

Try having more of a loop or shape to your swing, its kind of a push right now. Backhand technique looks fine, consistency depends on how you strike the ball or how consistently you can have the same swing over and over. Serve looks OK but I'd work on your consistency and forehand as an immediate thing you need to fix.

You don't need to swing so hard at the ball, try relaxing a bit and hitting the ball with less, slow down your swing really pay attention to what you're hitting.
 
G

Gyswandir

Semi-Pro
NuBas said:
Where are these courts?

You move nicely considering you could be more fit and move better. Your forehand technique is a bit off, sometimes you rotate your forearm cause you're late on the shot and arm the ball.

Try having more of a loop or shape to your swing, its kind of a push right now. Backhand technique looks fine, consistency depends on how you strike the ball or how consistently you can have the same swing over and over. Serve looks OK but I'd work on your consistency and forehand as an immediate thing you need to fix.

You don't need to swing so hard at the ball, try relaxing a bit and hitting the ball with less, slow down your swing really pay attention to what you're hitting.
Click to expand...
Courts are in Dubai.
Regarding bolder part, can you explain and provide an example from the video? Unless you are referring to the shots, where I was out of position, don’t get it.
 
G

Gyswandir

Semi-Pro
NuBas said:
Just cause you post for help on a Tennis forum, doesn't mean everyone here is gonna have answers to your problems. From what I remembered you looked fine and what you're describing, you failed to show a video from behind that actually showed your ball path and how you were hitting.

You only showed us a side video (which to me looked fine)
Click to expand...
I was referring to the different coaches I played with too
 
G

Gyswandir

Semi-Pro
Curious said:
Your number one issue is the extra 10 kg you carry in your torso. I wanted to emphasise although you’re already aware. A tip: Write down every single item you eat and drink for a week and see how many of those were not really necessary.
Click to expand...
Have been using MyFitnessPal for more than a year. My net calories (eat - expenditure, which is estimated by Fitbit charge 2) daily average is 1800 calories. So, I have an issue with my base metabolism. According to Hitman, I probably have a hormonal problem.
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Gyswandir said:
Have been using MyFitnessPal for more than a year. My net calories (eat - expenditure, which is estimated by Fitbit charge 2) daily average is 1800 calories. So, I have an issue with my base metabolism. According to Hitman, I probably have a hormonal problem.
Click to expand...
Hormonal issues are not that difficult to diagnose I think. I know the torso weight is the hardest to lose but say you have a slower metabolism (whatever that means) you can still do that if really dedicated.
 
ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Gyswandir said:
Have been using MyFitnessPal for more than a year. My net calories (eat - expenditure, which is estimated by Fitbit charge 2) daily average is 1800 calories. So, I have an issue with my base metabolism. According to Hitman, I probably have a hormonal problem.
Click to expand...


I used MFP for several years and it is a good program for tracking. Some things I see happen often that can cause you to not lose weight while using are usually under estimating calries intake and over-estimating calorie burn. Sure you've already heard these tips if you post or read the MFP forums, but make sure you measure and track everything that goes in your mouth. For burn, Fitbit is known to inflate or misrepresent calories burned so use a more reliable general guide for calorie burn (for example, I have had several Fitbit's and deveices over the years and with tennis they all track miles of steps for a tennis match and give 1000's of calories burned, but for most the actual calories burned in a match might be in the 500 Kcal range). As mentioned though, see a dcotor and have hormonal balances checked to eliminate those issues. Even with that, basal metabloic rate issue can be compensated for and you should be good if identified.

All the best.
 
NuBas

NuBas

Legend
Gyswandir said:
Do you know anything about me, my life, or my health situation to make a snarky remark, when I didn’t ask you to?
Click to expand...

Ignore those comments, you look fine man. You move well for your situation.

What I meant was I think your swing path is too linear, if you try more low to high, creating a more C shape I think you'll find more consistency.
 
Hmgraphite1

Hmgraphite1

Hall of Fame
NuBas said:
Ignore those comments, you look fine man. You move well for your situation.

What I meant was I think your swing path is too linear, if you try more low to high, creating a more C shape I think you'll find more consistency.
Click to expand...
Comment was not directed toward op, was responding to posters about carrying weight around and the benefits of it.
 
G

Gyswandir

Semi-Pro
NuBas said:
Ignore those comments, you look fine man. You move well for your situation.

What I meant was I think your swing path is too linear, if you try more low to high, creating a more C shape I think you'll find more consistency.
Click to expand...
Ok got it now. It was intentional and according to the coach’s instruction to get more penetration, as I used to over spin the ball often resulting in shots that were too short. However, after my discovery, I want to experiment with my old swing and see what happens
 
NuBas

NuBas

Legend
Gyswandir said:
Ok got it now. It was intentional and according to the coach’s instruction to get more penetration, as I used to over spin the ball often resulting in shots that were too short. However, after my discovery, I want to experiment with my old swing and see what happens
Click to expand...

IMO your arm is slightly tight, let it go from your shoulders and completely allow your arm to relax. This will be hard if you're not used to it but its the best option.

Your forehand swing looks like you're holding back with your arm if that makes sense.
 
ByeByePoly

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Gyswandir said:
Courts are in Dubai.
Regarding bolder part, can you explain and provide an example from the video? Unless you are referring to the shots, where I was out of position, don’t get it.
Click to expand...

Court backdrop is awesome ... noticed that with your previous video. Good hitting ... you are taking big cuts at the ball in crazy wind, that is always very difficult to time. Post a video in less wind if you get a chance.

Some of us just time the ball better on our bh wing ... we both appear to be in that club. Your bh looks very smooth and natural.

- make sure that you aggressively rotate the hitting shoulder through the stroke

But not through contact.

- make sure your upper arm is moving with your shoulder

Hand moves with shoulder line until shoulder rotation ends, and arm continues on into contact.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Gyswandir said:
Last April I posted this for feedback: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/reconstructing-my-fh-video.614057/
In essence, I wasn’t happy with my FH’s lack of penetration, especially on no pace balls.

I had a rare chance to take 2 weeks off during the holidays and play with a coach almost daily. The good news is I’ve finally figured out how to achieve the result I want. The bad news is there is a lot more to work on, but I guess that is tennis :)
Something that does frustrate me though is that no one managed to give me the cue I needed or highlighted the issue causing my problems. I just discovered it with trial and error.
The coach told me it was too low a take back, kept on telling me to extend the racquet into the direction I am hitting for longer, that I have too many errors on spacing (this I agree with, but it was/is a secondary factor)...what I found that actually helped were 2 things
- make sure that you aggressively rotate the hitting shoulder through the stroke
- make sure your upper arm is moving with your shoulder
Just adopting those 2 things has fixed about 80% of the issues I had on my FH

The following videos are from my 7th session, where I finally started to”get it” and try applying it.
First is CC to 11. Second is a couple of games. The coach was definitely taking it easy and I was having a really bad serving day, somewhat related to the windy conditions.

Things I still need to work on
- I have too high an elbow on my serve. Need to bring it down a bit. However, this might be due to an old shoulder injury. Not sure yet.
- spacing is a problem that requires me to have better anticipation and footwork, which needs better fitness for which I really need to lose weight.
- consistency: it is too early for me to judge on the FH, as I’ve tinkered with it a lot in the past 2 weeks. I’ve gone to a much higher back “slot,” which makes my shots a bit flatter. Need to experiment and see what happens if I go back to my previous “slot.” Nonetheless, need a lot of reps with the changes I’ve made. Also, I can now finally start paying more attention to my bh.

One thing I am still unable to do, despite consciously trying to, is to get that typical pat the dog position on the FH. I would like to at least see how it affects my stroke. Anybody have an opinion?

@tennis_balla @J011yroger @nytennisaddict
Click to expand...
first thing i alwasy look for is the head lifting shortly after contact... to indictate you're looking at the contact... at contact... (i don't see you doing that). IMO the #1 thing that needs to be fixed, before looking at anything else (ie you might be shanking missing, because you're not seeing the ball and not making clean contact).

other than that, just more reps... i'd like to see you play lower, and shape the ball more (vs. drive with low net clearance), and would like to see your feet more active (adjusting steps) to help with better spacing, which improves consistency, etc...
 
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