What's wrong with the New York Open?
- Thread starter lunaticmochi
- Start date
Google to the rescue:
But there were a few things organizers of the New York Open could control — the color and surface of the court itself — and their choice is almost completely off the tennis grid: black hardwood.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/10/sports/tennis/new-york-open-tennis.html
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
What's wrong with Sam Queerry 's head ?? he has NO hair on top of his head anymore
First thing I noticed today was his rapidly expanding "sweetspot."
tennis tom
Legend
Gimeltob sighting at NYO! TC commentators focused on Mardy Fish in the stands during the Isner / Tomic match mentioning his being the new captain of the US Davis Cup team--and low and behold--there's Justin sitting next to him unshaven--no mention of Justin by commentators quickly segueing to Mardy.
tennis tom
Legend
Lot's of great players and matches going on and there's still fewer fans then for a challenger midweek--whoever handled the marketing dropped the ball. Even if the sponsors are picking up the tab for the tournament, they would probably like to see some butts in the stands. It's an embarrassment for tennis and a diss to the great players there. In the olden days, club pros would charter buses or vans to take members to pro-events, and that would solve the transportation issue. Maybe the organizers didn't want to promote the tournament because they feared AOC would protest it as an example of an elitist event.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Well said, Tom. Of the 40 hard core tennis guys I know in the area, only 2 other guys went. If USTA tennis junkies are not going, then no one is. Someone should have given 10 free tickets to each tennis club pro in every tennis club within a 90 minute radius. Very weak marketing.
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tennis tom
Legend
Thanks for the story--maybe they need to combine it with a wine auction.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Will head back today to watch Isner and Querry matches.
$30. I'm curious if the numbers will increase since it's Saturday.
$30. I'm curious if the numbers will increase since it's Saturday.
TennisaGoGo
Semi-Pro
I went twice today this week. I loved it but I’m a big tennis nut. It is a tough sell to casual fans when you’ve got free quailes at USO in August. Another issue is you’re pretty much limited to one match which can get repetitive if the players are baseliners. The second court is either dark, used for doubles (boring), or practice (which is awesome but only for hardcore fans). I did see Isner’s serve close up and I dont know how he’s ever been broken in his career.
If you live on LI or Queens and have a car the coliseum is easy to get to. Box office has no line and concessions are reasonable. The whole thing was easier than going to a movie and about the same price.
If you’re in this board and live in the area, you should have gone.
If you live on LI or Queens and have a car the coliseum is easy to get to. Box office has no line and concessions are reasonable. The whole thing was easier than going to a movie and about the same price.
If you’re in this board and live in the area, you should have gone.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
mikeeeee
Professional
I was watching the NYO the other night and was wondering how they afford to pay the players and for the overall cost of the event when no one buys tickets? Are the sponsors solely backing the event? What sponsors would want to affiliate when no one attends and maybe a thousand people are watching at home with the tennis channel being the only real way to do it conveniently?
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
i was there last night. thought the same thing. reasons, to me, why no one attends:
* commute is miserable (1’15” from westchester...)
* winter! no one visits NY in winter
* everyone’s in the mountains (if like most you rented a seasonal, you’re gonna use it)
* there’s no place to “hang out”. at outdoor events it’s fun just people watching (probably more for the non-hardcore types)
* no random encounters with the players (at us open they are waking amongst us)
* no close proximity to courts (even the practice courts are really close) unless you get box seating
* vendors suck...
* nothing for kids to do when they eventually get bored
* unrecognizable player names (unless you’re a fanatic)
* only 2 courts of play to watch... people get bored easily, especially if the matchups suck, or names unrecognizable
why to go:
* tix are cheap if they let you walk down to 100 level.
* not bad seat in the house
* no crowds
* parking is easy
if honestly rather pay to go watch us open quallies (which are free), than for this event if I had to choose.
I do like that the ball doesn’t bounce up much... wondering if it helps s&v’ers at all.. (it sounds like a covered basketball court)
my $0.02
did see lleyton on the sidelines coaching for thompson.
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D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
branding IMO.
kinda like the blue clay courts they tried in madrid.
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D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
but that old guy had an arm! musta been a 3rd baseman in his youth.
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tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
This shows it is the stars that that bring in the crowds .
Otherwise there is no explanation for one event bringing in 70 people and the other 70000 any given day
Otherwise there is no explanation for one event bringing in 70 people and the other 70000 any given day
George Turner
Hall of Fame
New york open the moral 5th slam?
Got it, thanks.
tennis tom
Legend
HEAR!, HEAR!
tennis tom
Legend
Another angle on why some of the best players from around the planet are going begging to scrounge up an audience :
We now have Tennis Channel which makes it easy to get your fill of tennis without having to leave the comfort of your couch and your twice baked potato for $2.50.
The switch-over from the club-tennis ladder aspirational mindset to the league tennis mindset. Today league players travel all the time far and wide to other clubs and get their fill of foreign exotic venues satisfying their need to see the world--at least provincially. In the olden days, before the two car family household and cheap gas, you stuck to your home turf, maybe played at two different venues if you were lucky, one on weekdays and maybe another on the weekend.
Your goal if you aspired to improve was to move up your club ladder and beat the better players at your club--now you're on a team and you don't necessarily care about improving your own game as much as your team beating the enemy at the other club--team think. I haven't seen a club ladder in ages--if your're the best player at your club, you're probably largely ignored--or have to sand-bag to play on a team.
So, how does it help your team by watching some of the best players on the planet playing in your hood? Did any team-captain in the NYC environs say to their team, "Hey, let's all pile into the Dinali, Rangerover or the Cayenne, and go out to Long Island, and watch some of the best players, especially the many Americans, play tennis and see what we can learn from them!"
We now have Tennis Channel which makes it easy to get your fill of tennis without having to leave the comfort of your couch and your twice baked potato for $2.50.
The switch-over from the club-tennis ladder aspirational mindset to the league tennis mindset. Today league players travel all the time far and wide to other clubs and get their fill of foreign exotic venues satisfying their need to see the world--at least provincially. In the olden days, before the two car family household and cheap gas, you stuck to your home turf, maybe played at two different venues if you were lucky, one on weekdays and maybe another on the weekend.
Your goal if you aspired to improve was to move up your club ladder and beat the better players at your club--now you're on a team and you don't necessarily care about improving your own game as much as your team beating the enemy at the other club--team think. I haven't seen a club ladder in ages--if your're the best player at your club, you're probably largely ignored--or have to sand-bag to play on a team.
So, how does it help your team by watching some of the best players on the planet playing in your hood? Did any team-captain in the NYC environs say to their team, "Hey, let's all pile into the Dinali, Rangerover or the Cayenne, and go out to Long Island, and watch some of the best players, especially the many Americans, play tennis and see what we can learn from them!"
asifallasleep
Hall of Fame
1) People who live in Manhattan hate going to Long Island. It's a royal pain and takes forever.
2) No one is flying into NYC to see this 250 tournament and then they have to commute to Long Island? - forget it.
3) A tournament in a big city should be easily accessible..................like when the year end championships used to be at Madison Sq Garden.
4) Long Island isn't NYC it might as well be Des Moines Iowa.
2) No one is flying into NYC to see this 250 tournament and then they have to commute to Long Island? - forget it.
3) A tournament in a big city should be easily accessible..................like when the year end championships used to be at Madison Sq Garden.
4) Long Island isn't NYC it might as well be Des Moines Iowa.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
Attended the NY Open today.
This was an amazingly convenient venue,
and INFINITELY more enjoyable than the US Open.
1) Travel is cake. Easier parking.
No lines. No city traffic jams. No nothing.
No waiting for crowded subways.
Just pull up into the huge vacant parking lot, and walk 20 feet to the front door of the stadium.
Forgot something in the car? Just walk outside and grab it in 30 seconds.
2) No crowds. No lines. No security BS. No nothing.
3) Great seats. No jockeying for bleacher seats.
You don't lose your seat if you get up.
Sit anywhere you want.
I had an entire section of the stadium all to myself.
4) Great view of 2 courts at the same time.
No twisting your neck.
5) Amazing quality tennis on display.
Top 200 is an amazing level of tennis.
6) Venue is immaculate.
Everything seems new.
You can eat off the floors.
7) Dirt cheap. For $20, this was a steal.
US Open is like triple the price.
8) Best of all? The weather!
No oppressive US Open heat, sun, humidity.
I always leave the US Open after baking in the sun for 3 hours.
NY Open was nice and cool, indoors, with perfect lighting.
What a great experience.
So relaxing and enjoyable.
What a great way to get some tennis fix in the middle of winter.
I am absolutely heading back later this week
to see Isner, Tiafoe, Millman, and Rubin, MackMcD.
We get it. You're promoting the event for whatever reason but it's not sustainable and unless you're ultra sarcastic I am in awe of how you're trying to make this event seem worthwhile.
tennis tom
Legend
"god" has spoken--Don't include me in your royal "WE"--this goes under the heading of "Let no good deed go unpunished'. Time To Play Sets, takes time and effort to compose a well thought out review AND some guy comes out of left field dismissing it in two lines. BGod has to have a pretty huge ego to use that blasphemous web-name--but, maybe it is really G-d and he had a bad day on the courts or it was too rainy to play--I'll take it up with Al Gore since he controls the climate down here. It's due to clowns like bg, that I have moved the short-cut to this site, right next to the trash bucket, tiring of toiling to educate those who don't want to be educated for free--it's probably best to not wise them up--make them pay for it.
Well, Time to Play Sets, I appreciated your well thought out review, as I'm sure 99% of the others reading it did too! Don't let the a-holes get you down. The sole detractor is what is termed on the internet review sites as an "anomaly", putting it charitably.
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tacou
G.O.A.T.
Really? everyone seems to be saying transportation takes at least an hour.
tennis tom
Legend
Where are you coming from?
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
LOL, thanks the thumbs up, but it's all good.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I am known to have very unpopular opinions here.
I think NYTA made the mistake of going on a Friday night.
Literally the worst session to attend, with respect to driving.
I went tonight Saturday, and it took me 48 mins. to drive there, and NYTA lives closer than I do.
It took me 42 mins. to get home.
I also parked at the Marriott, and avoided the $15 parking fee. LOL
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TimeToPlaySets
Legend
That's precisely why this tournament is such a pleasure treasure,
and the very reason it blows away the US Open.
All the city ilk and international tourists are eliminated !
If US Open is a Spring Break loud disco nightclub with sweaty bodies packed wall to wall,
then the NY Open is a quiet night at the local wine bar, where you get the corner sofa.
There is simply no comparing the 2 events,
as they serve very different crowds and mindsets.
NY Open is for hardcore tennis junkies
US Open is a media scene for tourists and autograph seekers.
One is the local fine arts cinema,
while the other is the 20 screen Multi-Super-Duper-Hyper-Ultra-Mega-Double-Extra-Triple-Extreme-Infinity-Plex.
Baking in 100 degree sweltering heat, with people packed everywhere ?
Get up and your bleacher seat is gone? Rain delays? Sunburn?
F all of that.
NY Open is indoors and you get 5 seats to yourself.
There was literally no one on line when I got myself a burger!
I am ruined. I don't think I can ever attend US Open again.
Ironically, you will see bigger stars at the NY Open.
At the US Open, you can't even get within 1000 feet of a top ATP player without getting trampled.
Hell, you can barely even see them practice.
The practice fence is packed 5 people deep. You get to see backs of heads.
$60 for some nosebleed seats that require binoculars in some NFL sized stadium.
At the US Open, I have never even come within shouting distance of an well known pro.
Just anonymous qualifiers, which is what I prefer anyway (vantage point)
But tonight, for $20, 45 mins, and $0 parking, I saw #9 Isner play.
I have never seen #9 at the US Open. I've not even been there on the same day #9 is on the grounds, LOL!
Not without binoculars. (made that Armstrong mistake once, and never went back)
At NY Open, I moved my seat every set, and saw all angles.
I would never have seen Isner at the US Open unless I brought my binoculars or paid $250.
Incidentally, this Isner was the most intense match I have seen in my life.
I know it's just some meaningless regional match,
but I felt like I was witnessing something incredible.
Now I know what "serve bot" means.
But, it was 2 serve bots pitted against each other.
I've never seen anything like this.
Neither player was able to return the other guys serve.
Maybe once per service game was a ball even put into play.
I am still trying to process it, and it warrants its own thread.
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TimeToPlaySets
Legend
All 3 clubs I play at have an internal singles ladder league.
It is definitely still a thing.
But, I'll raise you and say that the "team" concept stunts a player's development.
Watch a 3.5 USTA match, and big confident bashers turn into meek bunters and dinkers (which is the road to 4.0, granted)
What boggles my mind about this team nonsense?
People will fly across the country to "Nationals", to go play a 3.0 or 3.5 match.
What a colossal waste of $2000. I've got a better idea, spend $50 and play a +.5 at your local club,
and pretend that's your "nationals" match. Just saved you a week of your life and $2000.
(Now, take that $2000, and get 40 lessons in 40 days, and you will BE +.5 yourself!)
While it's sad that rec players invest hundreds of hours playing matches, trying to improve,
yet can not be bothered to go see the best in the world right in their backyard.
On the other hand, there is very little to learn from watching pros.
They are playing a different sport that requires a decade of full-time drilling.
There is no parallel to the rec player, since the rec player can't execute any of it with consistency.
On the other hand, watching pros does dispels many myths that can help the rec player.
Just tonight, I reinforced a few things I've observed in the past:
1) Pros hit more softly than people assume. Rec players try to crush winners. Pros keep the ball in play.
2) Pros hit with much less spin than people think. Rec players are obsessed with spin. Pros hit flat and low. I can see the label on the ball from the stands.
3) Pros hit 130 mph serves. Serve is the most overrated stroke in rec tennis b/c you will never serve like that.
4) Pros practically bunt back return of serve. Rec players take full wind up swings and try to crush winners. Pros just try to get the ball over the net.
4) Pros make tons of mistakes. They constantly screw up, and barely ever get mad. The rec player gets mad at every error. (Sign of an idiot)
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TimeToPlaySets
Legend
^^
That is why I made the effort to attend.
I assume this will not last.
It is a gift from the tennis gods.
There are ZERO futures or challengers events anywhere near here.
Just the US Open, which is a hot mess circus zoo!
I am actually going to call the event organizers and
volunteer to market this event properly for next year.
I can market the **** out of this thing.
I take it as a personal challenge to get people to figure out what they need, not what they want
Sat. night had a medium sized crowd.
It wasn't as vacant as the other days.
This would probably be a $250 ticket at the US Open.
I paid $19
That is why I made the effort to attend.
I assume this will not last.
It is a gift from the tennis gods.
There are ZERO futures or challengers events anywhere near here.
Just the US Open, which is a hot mess circus zoo!
I am actually going to call the event organizers and
volunteer to market this event properly for next year.
I can market the **** out of this thing.
I take it as a personal challenge to get people to figure out what they need, not what they want
Sat. night had a medium sized crowd.
It wasn't as vacant as the other days.
This would probably be a $250 ticket at the US Open.
I paid $19
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tacou
G.O.A.T.
I see I see, thanks. 48 minutes is a bit of a hike for the movies but I could certainly manage it for some tennis.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Watch out, your vehicle may be towed.
Moose Malloy
G.O.A.T.
There used to a tournament in Long Island the week before the USO and it got great crowds, so I'm not sure I buy the location as a reason for lack of interest in NY Open. Mac, Edberg, Lendl, Chang regularly played it. Rafter won it before winning USO in '98.
Moose Malloy
G.O.A.T.
tacou
G.O.A.T.
Well 48 minutes is 1-2 freeway exits in LA haha48 mins isn't much of a hike to see a movie in LA
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I think tennis has been dying a long slow death ever since the Borg and Mac era ended.
My assumption is that the only people who watch tennis are those who play it.
It's not like NHL, MBA, MLB, Soccer, and NFL where drunk obese men yell at the TV.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, the ATP is definitely not a charity case for tournaments. Reminds me of when a good, long time restaurant goes out of business and all the locals talk about how good it is and how it was a staple of existence for so many years...but then say, "...but I hadn't been there in years". Takes money to operate and if no one in Memphis was stepping up to induce cash and make it profitable, it was up for grabs. And calendar spots are a fricken premium anymore, so basically something has to give somewhere to get a slot anymore. They won't add anything else.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Does anyone know how the accounting of these tournaments works?
Sponsors pay money to have their brand promoted.
Spectators pay money to watch on TV and live.
The event pays out prize money.
Who "owns" the event? Who needs to make a profit?
Sponsors pay money to have their brand promoted.
Spectators pay money to watch on TV and live.
The event pays out prize money.
Who "owns" the event? Who needs to make a profit?
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Do you know this specifically about this Hempstead Marriott?
Or are you just talking in generalities?
I parked out in the auxiliary parking lot, where i doubt even employees would venture.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I am tempted to go back yet again today for the final.
2 factors are holding me back.
That #90 serve bot Isner clone is not going to get beat.
He is the mirror image of #9 Isner, and the other finalist was a qualifier.
He might as well just not even show up.
Only serve bot vs. serve bot is interesting.
Serve bot vs. regular player will be a standard 6-4 6-4 affair.
Also, tickets are hovering at $35. What!??!
I'd accept that for an Isner/Querry final, but with the big stars gone, it's 2 nobodies in the final.
As a consumer who extracts maximum value from his expenditures,
I expect some sort of discount, since I know the demand curve has been impacted!!
2 factors are holding me back.
That #90 serve bot Isner clone is not going to get beat.
He is the mirror image of #9 Isner, and the other finalist was a qualifier.
He might as well just not even show up.
Only serve bot vs. serve bot is interesting.
Serve bot vs. regular player will be a standard 6-4 6-4 affair.
Also, tickets are hovering at $35. What!??!
I'd accept that for an Isner/Querry final, but with the big stars gone, it's 2 nobodies in the final.
As a consumer who extracts maximum value from his expenditures,
I expect some sort of discount, since I know the demand curve has been impacted!!
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tennis tom
Legend
Yup! They pack the place for ice hockey--sounds like a lack of marketing due to the sponsors picking up the tab--but, I can tell you sponsors like to see butts in the seats. And, the top 100 players deserve to have some people watching them breaking their asses. My guess is the tournament was not promoted over the media, TV, radio, papers nor to the tennis community--going to the clubs and giving out some tix to club pros who could spread the word. The gate is probably not a big revenue generator--but you want an audience!
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Putting my $20 where my mouth is.
Heading back down for the finals!
Heading back down for the finals!
socalmd123
Professional
Schnur is playing great but Opelka's serve is gonna be almost impossible to break.
The Safinator
Rookie
It's not the inaugural event. It was in NY last year, too, just not at Nassau Coliseum. Memphis lost it's sponsorship, so it had to go somewhere.
It was at the Nassau Coliseum last year.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
This was another awesome match.
Serve bot crushed Schnur 6-1.
Then it got very even in the 2nd set.
Went to TB and Schnur pulled it off !
2nd set was also dead even, Schnur was serving 125mph, no slouch!
3rd set TB. Multiple breaks. Just the height of tennis.
Schnur was crying at the speech. I Get it.
He is a Futures/Chall. player, and he's never won an ATP match.
Now, I think he was 2 points away from winning an ATP Event!
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
You know my #1 take away from this week at the NY Open watching ATP 250 ?
Bunt/block the serve return. I think I will be blocking every ROS from now on.
Clueless 3.5's take a full swing at a serve, and try to crush winner
ATP250 bunt it back. Pushing wins titles.
