Roddick lol. What kick serve? I'm sorry I don't understand.
I'm gonna go all Lew on ya and let it be known Andy is 4th all time in 2nd serve points won (56%).
Obviously that's not a direct measure of how much kick he got on his serves. But it was undoubtedly one of the best of all time to put himself in a position to win so many points.
Yes, his second serve points won is right up there with ATGs whose ground games were immeasurably better than his. Why? In no small part thanks to his super heavy kickers, loaded with both spin and pace.
I'm sure the people who are picking Thiem over Roddick would also argue that Thiem's ground game is much superior to A-Rod's. Well, then they've got a bit of an explanatory problem at their hands: How does Roddick then manage to win significantly more second serve points than Thiem (with a large part of them being kickers). Doesn't compute.
career return points won on hard = 36.5% for Thiem and 36.2% for Rod. Pretty similar.Have any stats on return points won on hard court for Roddick and Thiem? I'm not even sure Thiem's ground game is better than Roddick's on hard court (on grass absolutely not). Maybe it is. Not sure.
career return points won on hard = 36.5% for Thiem and 36.2% for Rod. Pretty similar.
So it does further point in the direction that Roddick achieves his superiority on second serve largely through a stronger serve.
Roddick lol. What kick serve? I'm sorry I don't understand. All Roddick knew is how to hit the ball the hardest he could and kill the ball. AR was such a one dimensional player. He even forgot how to hit FH after 2003. Well, Fed happened I guess.
Thiem can think. There is a difference. Your answer is Dominic.
So is everyone else who ever saw Roddick play. Roddick's serve is superior to Thiem in every single department. No comparison. And Roddick actually got his 140 MPH bombs in the court, unlike Thiem.@Red Rick is gonna be slightly angry with the comparison.
Roddick lol. What kick serve?
Roddick lol. What kick serve? I'm sorry I don't understand. All Roddick knew is how to hit the ball the hardest he could and kill the ball. AR was such a one dimensional player. He even forgot how to hit FH after 2003. Well, Fed happened I guess.
Thiem can think. There is a difference. Your answer is Dominic.
That’s impressive, considering his baseline game was not so much the reason for his success. Most players who lead the 2nd serve points stats are guys with dominant baseline games like Nadal.I'm gonna go all Lew on ya and let it be known Andy is 4th all time in 2nd serve points won (56%).
Obviously that's not a direct measure of how much kick he got on his serves. But it was undoubtedly one of the best of all time to put himself in a position to win so many points.
Compared to the rest of his generation, he did have a dominant baseline game. If you compare him to Nadal, then of course it doesn't look like a strong suit.That’s impressive, considering his baseline game was not so much the reason for his success. Most players who lead the 2nd serve points stats are guys with dominant baseline games like Nadal.
I disagree. AR’s forehand was not that special. If it was, his return stats would have been better.Compared to the rest of his generation, he did have a dominant baseline game. If you compare him to Nadal, then of course it doesn't look like a strong suit.
But in his prime, who else had a better forehand besides Fed/Nadal? Andy was right up there.
I disagree. AR’s forehand was not that special. If it was, his return stats would have been better.
Actually arguing Thiem over Roddick is a joke.Roddick lol. What kick serve? I'm sorry I don't understand. All Roddick knew is how to hit the ball the hardest he could and kill the ball. AR was such a one dimensional player. He even forgot how to hit FH after 2003. Well, Fed happened I guess.
Thiem can think. There is a difference. Your answer is Dominic.
According to Tennis Abstract, career HCs:Have any stats on return points won on hard court for Roddick and Thiem? I'm not even sure Thiem's ground game is better than Roddick's on hard court (on grass absolutely not). Maybe it is. Not sure.
Might not be an accurate measure however considering hard courts are slower now.
Yes, his second serve points won is right up there with ATGs whose ground games were immeasurably better than his. Why? In no small part thanks to his super heavy kickers, loaded with both spin and pace.
I'm sure the people who are picking Thiem over Roddick would also argue that Thiem's ground game is much superior to A-Rod's. Well, then they've got a bit of an explanatory problem at their hands: How does Roddick then manage to win significantly more second serve points than Thiem (with a large part of them being kickers). Doesn't compute.
Roddick lol. What kick serve? I'm sorry I don't understand. All Roddick knew is how to hit the ball the hardest he could and kill the ball.
Obviously never once saw Roddick play. Poster will have no idea how to pick A-Rod out of this line up...
Is Roddick the guy with the hair between Rafa and Soderling? The guy that played in the 2009 Wimbledon final right?
A big part of his lack of success on clay is mostly due to his *ahem* exceptional movement. Roddick looked like a drunk ballerina on hardcourts. On clay, well, I'm sure someone can find a fitting comparison.This. I wasjust going to argue this exact point.
Frankly, he was an underachiever on clay given how effective hisnkick serve was on dirt. He would have players reaching into the stands on some of those and then mess up so many rallies from + or even ++ situations.
Good lord this is an ignorant comment.
I disagree. AR’s forehand was not that special. If it was, his return stats would have been better.
I can see that you don't know much about tennis. You're in the right place to fix these errors! Welcome!Roddick lol. What kick serve? I'm sorry I don't understand. All Roddick knew is how to hit the ball the hardest he could and kill the ball. AR was such a one dimensional player. He even forgot how to hit FH after 2003. Well, Fed happened I guess.
Thiem can think. There is a difference. Your answer is Dominic.
There was no doubt that it was significantly better as an attacking groundstroke as opposed to a return of serve or defensive tool; I remember Sampras wrote in his book that something along the lines of Courier's FH having much the same issue and that going after it with the serve was actually a very good play for him because Courier lacked the time to wind up and tag it. He couldn't counterpunch/defend with it the way Agassi or Hewitt could with theirs, but the flipside was that it was probably the most consistent out of the pure blaster forehands of the time, to the point where the Roddick serve/FH combo was probably second only to Federer's in terms of effectiveness. Very few players had a serve that could compare with Roddick's, and when given a ball that was attackable his FH was absolutely lethal.
This reminds me of casual fans during Roddick's heyday that would watch highlight packages, see that Roddick's favorite serve was the heater down the T and just assume - for whatever reason - that was the only serve he had.
Yes, his second serve points won is right up there with ATGs whose ground games were immeasurably better than his. Why? In no small part thanks to his super heavy kickers, loaded with both spin and pace.
I'm sure the people who are picking Thiem over Roddick would also argue that Thiem's ground game is much superior to A-Rod's. Well, then they've got a bit of an explanatory problem at their hands: How does Roddick then manage to win significantly more second serve points than Thiem (with a large part of them being kickers). Doesn't compute.
Harmonic mean would be more appropriate because it can handle the times when he went up against unranked amateurs.Geometric mean of opponent's ranking, problably.
That was true only when he was hitting the forehand. Post Gilbert that was sparatic at best. He almost became a male Conchita Martinez at times, someone who had a very big and effective forehand but was determined to not use it, and use a spinny wasteful one instead. Dean Golfine was a horrible coach for him imparticular. A good coach, who has done well with a lot of players, just not with Roddick.
Roddick had it all. The T, the wide, the slice, the kick, the flat...all over 70% first serves in and an average second serve speed in the high 100's and sometimes the low 110's. Honestly it's a hard sell for which serve between his and Sampras' I would take. Sampras backed it up so well and was probably more clutch. But day in and day out it is a hard call.
Yep, he went back to his junior grinding game post BG and while it helped his consistency it hurt his chances against the big guys. The odd thing was, he didn't have to go to either extreme as a player to be effective IMO; there were plenty of times when he would actually use the spinny forehand to great effect and force an opening after moving his opponent around... at which point he would then simply roll the ball into said opening into instead of flattening it out. C'mon, Andy.
Not much. The window of spin is virtually the same between a 21 mm 98 beam and a 23 mm 100 beam. It's widely known now that string pattern dictates launch angle more than spin potential. Plenty of great kickers come off the frames with 18x20 string patterns.Most people agree that Roddick has a better kick serve but how much of it is do with the fact that he had a larger size racquet and a more open string pattern??
I disagree. AR’s forehand was not that special. If it was, his return stats would have been better.
It was special ... until he lost his mojo. Then he paired up with Stefanki and started overspinning it. Yup, that was the end of his fearhand.
Not much. The window of spin is virtually the same between a 21 mm 98 beam and a 23 mm 100 beam. It's widely known now that string pattern dictates launch angle more than spin potential. Plenty of great kickers come off the frames with 18x20 string patterns.
It'd help him out a bit, but it'd by no means be the difference maker. Roddick's kicker was so effective I'd wager he could swing with an 18X20 with Theim swinging a 16X19 and his would still be better by a fair margin.So Roddick would get more net clearance from his kick serve which would mean it would bounce higher given same rpm as thiem’s Kick serve. Hence Roddick’s kick serve would still be more effective with 16 by 19.