SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
You are wrong - Nadal plainly says he's not as good as he was in his earlier years. Square with this however you must.
A 38-year old player is the world no 3. Weak era?
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AceSalvo
Legend
Nadal always says he is injured during non-clay season all through his career. Nadal is a serial liar. So debunked. He likes to play the victim.
That’s not Fed.
You are moving goal posts here.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
This is called an argument. One side presents a claim, the other side (hopefully considers it), responds, and a dialogue ensues. So far, your response to my arguments has taken the form of ad hominem, either on me, or now on Nadal.
Sad.
AceSalvo
Legend
That’s not an argument when you cite something/someone who has been caught with lies and cheating. You are ignoring that fact. That’s called hypocrisy. First with 2004-2007 weak era and now with Nadal.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
You can give proof of Nadal lying? Please do so.
AceSalvo
Legend
Never missed a clay season. Caught cheating fined by umpires. Are you good??
You can give proof Fed is playing his best ever? Please do so.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
2011 Nadal prime but 2012 Wimbledon Djokovic baby? 2017 AO Nadal geriatric, but 2018 Wimby Nadal prime? I don't think so. I think if you dig deep enough you'll find that both have 0 "slams", but Fed has the Cincy h2h so he wins.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Why is your avatar Federer winning something in 2017? That shouldn't count.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Also fyi, Nadal's potential lies about injury don't prove he's lying about his assessment of his current performance. You need to prove he's doing that too.
Thanks.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
I was trying to prove a point about how ridiculous these arguments are. You can take away pretty much all slams from both dudes with these stupid arguments.
AceSalvo
Legend
Fed’s potential “belief” doesn’t prove that he is playing better than ever. You need to show Fed is playing his best ever too.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
How does that prove he was lying? When was he caught cheating/fined by umpires? I need more particulars.
I already provided you proof - Fed's own assessment. Would you like the exact quote?
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Fed's belief, coupled with that of other pros on the same level is certainly a substantial proof he's playing his best ever. Who is in a better position to judge? You?
AceSalvo
Legend
You can find the particulars in your free time. But it’s recorded he was cheating as fcalled out by the umpire.
You didn’t provide any proof that shows Fed is playing his best ever.
AceSalvo
Legend
I don’t need to judge. I can see the results and stats of what Fed did at his peak and what Fed is doing now.
As opposed to you clinging on to someone’s words and stating they have a potential to lie.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
So nothing, OK.
Yes, I invoked his quote which is a proof. Would you like me to include it in my next post, as well as those of his peers?
AceSalvo
Legend
Nothing for you at the moment since you don’t care to find it out. Thats on your ignorance.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
I think you're confused - you're the one using Nadal's supposed lies to prove that his assessment of his performance is untrustworthy in some bizarre attempt to state that pros in general can't be trusted to assess their own performance.
I haven't stated anyone is lying.
AceSalvo
Legend
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
He has more proof than you. Yours is more of an assumption.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
bump
AceSalvo
Legend
But you are quoting Nadal who has been caught lying and cheating. So it’s just your hypocrisy to use something that is not a fact to prove that Fed’s beliefs are facts.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
You haven't proved Nadal has lied about anything, and furthermore, even if I grant you that he lied about what you say he lied about, it doesn't prove he's lying with regards to his assessment of his performance. Please do this.
Thanks.
AceSalvo
Legend
As of now you have not proved anything that Fed’s beliefs are a fact. Please do that assessment too.
Nadal has been caught lying is a fact. But if you can’t accept it that’s your problem.
Stop using what Nadal says to try to prove Fed’s beliefs are facts. That’s so dumb.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Still waiting on proof that Nadal is lying about his performance assessment.
AceSalvo
Legend
Still waiting on proof regarding Fed’s beliefs. And no, what Nadal said does not prove anything.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Yes it does. It proves that your statement that all top performing pros will claim they're better than ever even thought their performance has "visibly" declined (so you're relying on your own assessment as being more valid than theirs, interesting) is FALSE. This in turn, lends more validity to my claim that Federer's quote about himself is trustworthy.
Also - the burden is on you to prove why Fed's beliefs are false, not me.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Sampras said the same thing when he was in his streak of not winning a single title.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Quote?
AceSalvo
Legend
You are trying to quote someone else to prove that Fed’s beliefs are fact. That is not a burden on me but on yourself.
So far you are criticizing others for using your weak era goal post movement logic. Then you put the burden on other to prove your claim that Fed’s beliefs are facts.
Stop running away.
AceSalvo
Legend
Plug out from TTW and I am sure you will find it. Stop asking others to do your journalism.
So far you have published any facts just assumptions of what you think maybe be right.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
You're confused (again). I'm quoting Nadal to disprove your claim that a top pro would say he was at his best even if he'd visibly declined. Nadal's doing the exact opposite of what you claimed directly disproves your attempt to question the validity of Fed's words, and now you need to move on to another tactic.
Thanks.
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Federer running around the tennis court like he's in his mid-20s and didn't show a single sign of fatigue (he ran more during the match than Djokovic did, BTW). The era is defined by a player's FORM, not their age. And with Federer's current form, being in the top 3 is not a surprise at all.
AceSalvo
Legend
You are just claiming other are confused when you are trying to quote someone else to prove Fed’s beliefs works the same as others. Kind of gives a warning that you just have nothing to back it up.
Still proven nothing.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Have you said anything that's verifiable or hasn't been proven wrong in this entire convo? Thought not.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
I've clarified what I did so many times, but it doesn't sink in with you. Starting to think there's a reason for that. Maybe when you unplug from Fedworship we can have a conversation.
Til then, Toodles.
AceSalvo
Legend
You have not proved anything other than just stating someone’s “belief”.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
That someone who is Federer, the point of our conversation, and is speaking about himself. But again, I guess you know better. You also know better than Laver, Djokovic, and McEnroe who have said similar things about him.
AceSalvo
Legend
You have clarified nothing so far. Stating one's beliefs becomes a fact is the only claim you have made so far. Maybe your Prete Worship and your anit-Fed worship has clouded all your through process.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Wrong again. Citing expert opinions is a powerful form of evidence used in court. So again, you have nothing.
AceSalvo
Legend
That some who is Federer, although is speaking about himself, has not shown he is better than ever when he way past his peak. You also know better that Laver, Djokovic, and McEnroe say thing that is just to create more attention and that which is good for the sport.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
LAVER says things to generate attention for the sport? Now that's a new one.
AceSalvo
Legend
Facts says that Fed has declined since 2010. Apparently you also know better that Agassi claiming he played weak after his comeback..
AceSalvo
Legend
That not a new one when Laver never said anything like that. His exact quote is this "He’s playing so well at the moment. I might venture he’s playing the best tennis of his life ". You can also venture along.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
You have a quote? Or more nothing?
AceSalvo
Legend
I said you know better than Agassi when you are claiming he played weak after his comeback. Same weak era logic disappears based on your claim Fed was playing better than ever after 27+.
NatF
Bionic Poster
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/last-match-was-best-i-ever-played-says-sampras-83754.html
"Everyone was getting better when I was No 1 in the world and winning majors left and right. I was 10 times the player as I got older. When I was dominating I didn't have any bad matches and players overall weren't as good. The 2002 US Open Pete would beat the 1994 or 1995 Pete easily."
Same sort of stuff Fed says.
SaintPetros
Hall of Fame
Oh, so quotes do count now? Sorry, I have trouble keeping up with your changing goalposts.
AceSalvo
Legend
Quotes do count when you claim opposite of what Laver said. Show the quote where LAver said "without doubt Fed is playing the best tennis ever". Said no one ever.
AceSalvo
Legend
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