Federer is 0-7 against top-2 in hardcourt Slams

Lew II · Sep 12, 2019

Federer never beat a top-2 in the hardcourt Slams. His score is 0-8.

vs #2 Agassi UO 2001
vs #1 Nadal AO 2009
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2011
vs #2 Nadal AO 2012
vs #1 Nadal AO 2014
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2015
vs #1 Djokovic AO 2016
Update: vs #2 Djokovic AO 2020

Yet he is the title record holder. Crazy stuff.

Nadal_Django · Sep 12, 2019

"Wait and vulture" is the name of his game.

tennis_pro · Sep 12, 2019

So many matches in 2002-2008.

Fiero425 · Sep 12, 2019

Lew II said:
Federer never beat a top-2 in the hardcourt Slams. His score is 0-7.

vs #2 Agassi UO 2001
vs #1 Nadal AO 2009
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2011
vs #2 Nadal AO 2012
vs #1 Nadal AO 2014
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2015
vs #1 Djokovic AO 2016

Yet he is the title record holder. Crazy stuff.

Fed's had a lot of pigeons in the finals he's won early on; Roddick the weakest in memory! Right now he's still doing better than Serena who can't beat anyone in these major finals she's been making! There's no doubt Fed will win if his path's been cleared like what Nadal got last week!

Lew II · Sep 12, 2019

True hardcourt GOAT Djokovic has 8 wins and 6 losses.

Lew II · Sep 12, 2019

tennis_pro said:
So many matches in 2002-2008.

Yeah because strong #2 Roddick, Hewitt and baby Claydal were too busy losing in the 1st/2nd round

Spencer Gore · Sep 12, 2019

A hugely revealing stat.

Thanks Lew. Keep delivering the facts.

Krish0608 · Sep 12, 2019

tennis_pro said:
So many matches in 2002-2008.

Lol. This sums up Lew II's expert cherry-picking

. Only goes to show how consistent Federer was even in his bad years. The ONLY bad loss was against Nadal in 2009. Lew as usual shooting himself in the foot.

Yugram · Sep 12, 2019

Nadal_Django said:
"Wait and vulture" is the name of his game.

W&V – sounds like a brand new style of play. Must be much more interesting than baseline slug from Djokovic and Nadal.

Pistol10 · Sep 12, 2019

I'll disagree with you lew this time. The statistics should include against top 3 not 2.

Because when Fed is no.1/2 he still face Rafa/Nole (as no.3) which is the same case when he's no.3 & they're the top.

BringBackSV · Sep 12, 2019

Fiero425 said:
Fed's had a lot of pigeons in the finals he's won early on; Roddick the weakest in memory! Right now he's still doing better than Serena who can't beat anyone in these major finals she's been making! There's no doubt Fed will win if his path's been cleared like what Nadal got last week!

Fed's path was clear, he still managed to lose to Grigor though.

Azure · Sep 13, 2019

How can Fed beat Fed in the finals of a slam? Its like saying Djokovic never beat the number one player in 2015.

KINGROGER · Sep 13, 2019

Yeah... because number 2 Nadal (based off his clay points mostly) wasn’t good enough to reach him in 2005-2009 apart from one time.... aside from that he had many wins over the true next best HC players around in that era. Agassi, Roddick, Djokovic, Nalbandian etc.

Fail thread.

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

Lew II said:
Federer never beat a top-2 in the hardcourt Slams. His score is 0-7.

vs #2 Agassi UO 2001
vs #1 Nadal AO 2009
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2011
vs #2 Nadal AO 2012
vs #1 Nadal AO 2014
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2015
vs #1 Djokovic AO 2016

Yet he is the title record holder. Crazy stuff.

2001 LOL. Do you see him in your dreams at night flashing his hardcourt cups?

beard · Sep 13, 2019

Azure said:
How can Fed beat Fed in the finals of a slam? Its like saying Djokovic never beat the number one player in 2015.

Fed had 7 chances to beat top 2 as OP showed.
He won 0 (zero) times!

KINGROGER said:
Yeah... because number 2 Nadal (based off his clay points mostly) wasn’t good enough to reach him in 2005-2009 apart from one time.... aside from that he had many wins over the true next best HC players around in that era. Agassi, Roddick, Djokovic, Nalbandian etc.
Fail thread.

True, Fed opponents in all those finals were mugs, as you described.
If no2 players couldn't get to finals, imagine in what shape was rest of the field while Fed was piling his weak era slams...

SummerBreeze said:
2001 LOL. Do you see him in your dreams at night flashing his hardcourt cups?

2001. Fed is equivalent 2006. Nadal, and 2007. Novak....

tennis_pro · Sep 13, 2019

One loss against Agassi when he was like 15, one loss against Nadal in 2009 (the only one he really should've won) and the remaining ones when he was 30+. What a joke.

Azure · Sep 13, 2019

beard said:
Fed had 7 chances to beat top 2 as OP showed.
He won 0 (zero) times!

He also won many times. How many times has Rafa reached the finals of a hardcourt ranked numbers 1-2 in the world between a reasonable time frame of 2005-2015? How many times has Fed reached the finals of a HC slam in the same period being ranked 1-2? I speak this as a Rafa fan mind you. Rafa reached AO finals in 09, 12, 14 and Fed reached 04,06,09,10. Rafa reached USO finals in 10,11 and 13. Fed reached in 04,05,06,07,08,09,15.

Fed's resume on HCs is more stacked compared to Rafa. Not diminishing any player here. Just saying that these arguments make one fan base angry and the other a chance to deride another. That is all.

Lew II · Sep 13, 2019

tennis_pro said:
One loss against Agassi when he was like 15, one loss against Nadal in 2009 (the only one he really should've won) and the remaining ones when he was 30+. What a joke.

30-34 years old is a perfect age for hardcourt tennis

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

beard said:
Fed had 7 chances to beat top 2 as OP showed.
He won 0 (zero) times!

True, Fed opponents in all those finals were mugs, as you described.
If no2 players couldn't get to finals, imagine in what shape was rest of the field while Fed was piling his weak era slams...

2001. Fed is equivalent 2006. Nadal, and 2007. Novak....

Yeah, and they lost on fed's turf in 4 and 3 sets respectively or do I have bad memory?

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

beard said:
True, Fed opponents in all those finals were mugs, as you described.
If no2 players couldn't get to finals, imagine in what shape was rest of the field while Fed was piling his weak era slams...

Makes no sence since if the field can hold up the no2 seed from reaching the final then we could say that field was strong no?
How did those so called mugs prevent the 2 GOAT's Novak and Rafa from reaching finals?

That argument of mugs in finals is ludacris.

If Hewitt, Safin and Roddick are mugs, what would you call Puerta, Berdych, Tsonga, Anderson, Ferrer, Söderling, Thiem... Tennis legends?

TheIntrovert · Sep 13, 2019

Azure said:
He also won many times. How many times has Rafa reached the finals of a hardcourt ranked numbers 1-2 in the world between a reasonable time frame of 2005-2015? How many times has Fed reached the finals of a HC slam in the same period being ranked 1-2? I speak this as a Rafa fan mind you. Rafa reached AO finals in 09, 12, 14 and Fed reached 04,06,09,10. Rafa reached USO finals in 10,11 and 13. Fed reached in 04,05,06,07,08,09,15.

Fed's resume on HCs is more stacked compared to Rafa. Not diminishing any player here. Just saying that these arguments make one fan base angry and the other a chance to deride another. That is all.

You’re speaking to a brick wall. Don’t bother wasting your time

Red Rick · Sep 13, 2019

I gotta admit this man knows how to find them

tennis_pro · Sep 13, 2019

Nadal_Django said:
"Wait and vulture" is the name of his game.

Rafael "Berrettini will be very very tough, no?" Nadal.

ABCD · Sep 13, 2019

SummerBreeze said:
If you do this with Rafa's resume very very closely you will find he is fighting Becker for top 10 spot. This can be very well argued, just watch very very closely. *not close enough, keep zooming*

Interesting statement. Please, analyse Nadal very closely and demonstrate that he is fighting with Becker for top 10 spot.

Lew II · Sep 13, 2019

Wins over the highest ranked opponent (#1, or #2 if you're the #1):

AO: Djokovic 4, Nadal 1, Federer 0
RG: Nadal 7, Djokovic 1, Federer 0
WI: Federer 5, Djokovic 3, Nadal 1
UO: Djokovic 2, Nadal 1, Federer 0

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

ABCD said:
Interesting statement. Please, analyse Nadal very closely and demonstrate that he is fighting with Becker for top 10 spot.

The difference between Pantera and me is I wasn't serious. Maybe ask him to do so? Comic relief here is through the roof.

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

Lew II said:
Wins over the highest ranked opponent (#1, or #2 if you're the #1):

AO: Djokovic 4, Nadal 1, Federer 0
RG: Nadal 7, Djokovic 1, Federer 0
WI: Federer 5, Djokovic 3, Nadal 1
UO: Djokovic 2, Nadal 1, Federer 0

How can you beat nr1 while being nr1? Please explain this to me.
Also how can you beat nr2 if nr2 fails to come through the draw?

ATP finals: Big fat 0

ABCD · Sep 13, 2019

SummerBreeze said:
The difference between Pantera and me is I wasn't serious. Maybe ask him to do so? Comic relief here is through the roof.

No problems.

Dear @Pantera, please analyse Federer's resume closely and argue that he is not top 5 of all time.

Lew II · Sep 13, 2019

SummerBreeze said:
How can you beat nr1 while being nr1? Please explain this to me.
Also how can you beat nr2 if nr2 fails to come through the draw?

ATP finals: Big fat 0

I explained in the brackets that you can beat the #2 if you're the #1.

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

Lew II said:
I explained in the brackets that you can beat the #2 if you're the #1.

Yeah and what if nr 2 does not show being nr1? You did not explain that sir.

Lew II · Sep 13, 2019

SummerBreeze said:
Yeah and what if nr 2 does not show being nr1? You did not explain that sir.

Weak era.

Federer either vultured weak eras or lost to big opponents. I can't find other interpretations to the stat.

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

Lew II said:
Weak era.

I rest my case haha

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

Lew II said:
Weak era.

Federer either vultured weak eras or lost to big opponents. I can't find other interpretations to the stat.

Reference to my post further above in this thread. No need to debunk this idiotic theory again and again.

aman92 · Sep 13, 2019

Wow..that's damning stuff. No way anyone can call him the hard court GOAT with that record

weakera · Sep 13, 2019

Brutal stat

tennis_pro · Sep 13, 2019

Federer: 0 wins against the world no 1 in 2004-2007. Pathetic.

OP is so high he can't even see clowds from above.

alexio · Sep 13, 2019

aman92 said:
Wow..that's damning stuff. No way anyone can call him the hard court GOAT with that record

wow,..anyone will forget about that record in the next morning once the sun comes up

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

alexio88 said:
wow,..anyone will forget about that record in the next morning once the sun comes up

It's not even a record. Just inventions of people who can't wait till everything naturally unfolds.

alexio · Sep 13, 2019

SummerBreeze said:
It's not even a record. Just inventions of people who can't wait till everything naturally unfolds.

alexio · Sep 13, 2019

tennis_pro said:
Federer: 0 wins against the world no 1 in 2004-2007. Pathetic.

OP is so high he can't even see clowds from above.

he's on cloud 9 currently...

Spencer Gore · Sep 13, 2019

Interesting thread, this.

Has Federer ever beaten a #1 seed in a slam final?

UnderratedSlam · Sep 13, 2019

You've just given Fedfans a new dilemma to solve.

Which excuse will they pick?

Because, as everyone knows, he is invincible when playing at his prime (which strangely coincides with the weak era) or when is not playing with mono (which he always seems to get when his rivals hit top form).

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

UnderratedSlam said:
You've just given Fedfans a new dilemma to solve.

Which excuse will they pick?

Because, as everyone knows, he is invincible when playing at his prime (which strangely coincides with the weak era) or when is not playing with mono (which he always seems to get when his rivals hit top form).

Strange to hear this from a fan of a player that never loses unless injured ('when healthy' is what the usually say nowadays). How do you want to debate something when the weak era fugasi is mentioned?

UnderratedSlam · Sep 13, 2019

SummerBreeze said:
Strange to hear this from a fan of a player that never loses unless injured ('when healthy' is what the usually say nowadays). How do you want to debate something when the weak era fugasi is mentioned?

Ivan Lendl never loses unless injured?

When did I ever say that?

SummerBreeze · Sep 13, 2019

UnderratedSlam said:
Ivan Lendl never loses unless injured?

When did I ever say that?

You said:

Because, as everyone knows, he is invincible when playing at his prime (which strangely coincides with the weak era) or when is not playing with mono (which he always seems to get when his rivals hit top form).

I was generalising too

never specifically saw you say that.

topher · Sep 13, 2019

Lew II said:
Federer never beat a top-2 in the hardcourt Slams. His score is 0-7.

vs #2 Agassi UO 2001
vs #1 Nadal AO 2009
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2011
vs #2 Nadal AO 2012
vs #1 Nadal AO 2014
vs #1 Djokovic UO 2015
vs #1 Djokovic AO 2016

Yet he is the title record holder. Crazy stuff.

If this is meant to be a criticism of Roger's HC titles, the list itself refutes that as he never played a top-2 player in his prime outside AO 2009 perhaps. This was because he was #1 during those years and the #2 Rafa was still figuring out hardcourts. Understandable as Rafa was young, but that's not Roger's fault nor his problem.

I find this almost as silly as @tennis_pro 's thread critiquing Rafa for not beating multi-RG winners at RG. I guess I'm just feeding the trolls today!

UnderratedSlam · Sep 13, 2019

topher said:
I find this almost as silly as @tennis_pro 's thread critiquing Rafa for not beating multi-RG winners at RG. I guess I'm just feeding the trolls today!

Didn't he also "blame" Rafa for not beating Borg at Tour de France?

Nothing Rafa does is enough for some people... The hatred runs deep and produces hilarious threads.

MambiPambi · Sep 13, 2019

That's because the field was much stronger between 2004-2007 when the #2 player was losing to a much tougher field.

UnderratedSlam · Sep 13, 2019

MambiPambi said:
That's because the field was much stronger between 2004-2007 when the #2 player was losing to a much tougher field.

Or because nobody else in the top 5 was consistent enough to be a regular threat?

MambiPambi · Sep 13, 2019

UnderratedSlam said:
Or because nobody else in the top 5 was consistent enough to be a regular threat?

Exactly, OR. The OP just presents one side of it.

Federer is 0-7 against top-2 in hardcourt Slams

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