"Federer plays better on faster surfaces" myth busted

O

OhYes

Guest
“When I came here I was positively surprised that conditions are fast and not slow like they were in previous years. I feel like the court allows to keep the rallies short with a good and dominant serve and immediately searching for the point,”

He was beaten today in straights by clay court specialist.

Should we stick to....idk... beautiful backhand ? :unsure:
 
beast of mallorca

beast of mallorca

G.O.A.T.
OhYes said:
“When I came here I was positively surprised that conditions are fast and not slow like they were in previous years. I feel like the court allows to keep the rallies short with a good and dominant serve and immediately searching for the point,”

He was beaten today in straights by clay court specialist.

Should we stick to....idk... beautiful backhand ? :unsure:
Click to expand...

Maybe, big nose and nice wavy hair, in addition to that bootyful bh :-D
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Only for someone completely ignorant about tennis it comes as a surprise that fast surfaces are detrimental to older players, who have lost a lot of their reflexes and sharpness in their age. The same type of people wouldn't recognise the difference in ability when talking about one player removed over a decade from his peak..

Well done.

:cool:
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
I don't know why he would prefer faster courts at this point in his career to be honest. His success this year came on slower courts: IW, Miami, played well at Madrid, RG and Wimbledon. He was worse at AO, Cincy, Shanghai and so far here, all faster conditions. His most impressive performance in faster conditions was Dubai. It's a double edged sword now since these faster courts allow younger and fresher legs to turn the tables on him, and rob him of time from the baseline.
 
O

OhYes

Guest
Tennis_Hands said:
Only for someone completely ignorant about tennis it comes as a surprise that fast surfaces are detrimental to older players, who have lost a lot of their reflexes and sharpness in their age. The same type of people wouldn't recognise the difference in ability when talking about one player removed over a decade from his peak..

Well done.

:cool:
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I don't know who are those ignorant people, I am just saying Roger was pleasantly surprised that speed of court was faster. I am sure he wouldn't say the same if court was slower than before.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
OhYes said:
I don't know who are those ignorant people, I am just saying Roger was pleasantly surprised that speed of court was faster. I am sure he wouldn't say the same if court was slower than before.
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As usual, once your poor efforts at discussing tennis are highlighted, you turn back to even poorer efforts at irony.

:cool:
 
O

OhYes

Guest
KINGROGER said:
Federer is 38 and about 7-10 years from his prime tennis.

Faster courts would’ve helped back in 2011-2012.
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So what cinditions does he need to beat clay court specialist ? If fast court isn't good enough, maybe he should retire.
 
Johnatan

Johnatan

New User
OhYes said:
“When I came here I was positively surprised that conditions are fast and not slow like they were in previous years. I feel like the court allows to keep the rallies short with a good and dominant serve and immediately searching for the point,”

He was beaten today in straights by clay court specialist.

Should we stick to....idk... beautiful backhand ? :unsure:
Click to expand...
I believe that he just did not play good today, and when that happens sometimes you just feel out of timing and rhythm and you feel like the court is so fast and that everything happens very quickly...
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Tennis_Hands said:
Only for someone completely ignorant about tennis it comes as a surprise that fast surfaces are detrimental to older players, who have lost a lot of their reflexes and sharpness in their age. The same type of people wouldn't recognise the difference in ability when talking about one player removed over a decade from his peak..

Well done.

:cool:
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Agree. Federer has been exactly a decade from his peak. He is old.
NoleFam said:
I don't know why he would prefer faster courts at this point in his career to be honest. His success this year came on slower courts: IW, Miami, played well at Madrid, RG and Wimbledon. He was worse at AO, Cincy, Shanghai and so far here, all faster conditions. His most impressive performance in faster conditions was Dubai. It's a double edged sword now since these faster courts allow younger and fresher legs to turn the tables on him, and rob him of time from the baseline.
Click to expand...
Cherry-picking too much? How come you strategically ignored the US Open which is slower but mentioned the Australian Open where he has won titles in 2017 and 2018? Also, Wimbledon is not slow by any means. It is still the Slam with most aces and short points.
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Sport said:
Agree. Federer has been exactly a decade from his peak. He is old.

Cherry-picking too much? How come you strategically ignored the US Open which is slower but mentioned the AO? Also, Wimbleodn is not slow by any means. 8t is stull the Slam with more aces ans short points.
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Maybe because the USO was med, not fast like the AO, and maybe because his fitness wasn't 100%. Didn't he even say it wasn't? I myself tend to ignore results when players aren't 100%. Wimbledon this year was as slow as I have ever seen it in the last 15 years and it definitely wasn't fast, and the best you can call it was med and even that is the low end of medium.
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
NoleFam said:
Maybe because the USO was med, not fast like the AO, and maybe because his fitness wasn't 100%. Didn't he even say it wasn't? I myself tend to ignore results when players aren't 100%. Wimbledon this year was as slow as I have ever seen it in the last 15 years and it definitely wasn't fast, and the best you can call it was med and even that is the low end of medium.
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Federer hasn't won the USO since 2008 and has won the AO in 2017 and 2018. Nothing suggests that he plays better in slower surfaces.

I don't think conditions played a role in the loss. Age and facing a good opponent are the main factors. Roger is 38, it is quite unsurprising that he lost today.
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Sport said:
Federer hasn't won the USO since 2008 and has won the AO in 2017 and 2018. Nothing suggests that he plays better in slower surfaces.

I don't think conditions played a role on the loss. Age and facing a good opponent are the main factors. Roger is 38, it is quite unsurprising that he lost.
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I'm not talking about 2017, where he was clearly better on faster courts. I am talking about this point in his career in 2019, the now, not last year or the year before. His results this year were better in slower conditions.

Well I personally think they do since he is being robbed of time from the baseline by these guys. I could never imagine Thiem doing that to him 3 or 4 years ago even. Of course age plays a role since that's why I said "younger and fresher legs". What part is not connecting?
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
NoleFam said:
I'm not talking about 2017, where he was clearly better on faster courts. I am talking about this point in his career in 2019, the now, not last year or the year before. His results this year were better in slower conditions.

Well I personally think they do since he is being robbed of time from the baseline by these guys. I could never imagine Thiem doing that to him 3 or 4 years ago even. Of course age plays a role since that's why I said "younger and fresher legs". What part is not connecting?
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I don't buy your theory without support from results in Slams. His results at the US Open (slower) were far worse than at Wimbledon (faster).

Of course you can make the excuse "he WaS InJuREd" but the point is: he still did nothing at the USO, so you have no empirical support from Slam results.
 
Martin J

Martin J

Hall of Fame
Sport said:
Cherry-picking too much? How come you strategically ignored the US Open which is slower but mentioned the Australian Open where he has won titles in 2017 and 2018? Also, Wimbledon is not slow by any means. It is still the Slam with most aces and short points.
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Wimbledon was extremely slow this year (for grass standards) which helped Federer's movement and return. Moreover, the bounce was very low and even Nadal was troubled by Fed's slice (something he rarely is affected by). That is one of the reasons he pushed Novak this year, who had hard time dealing with the sharp slices and the low/inconsistent bounce. The other is that Djokovic simply didn't play that great.
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Sport said:
I don't buy your theory without support from results in Slams. His results at the US Open (slower) were far worse than at Wimbledon (faster).

Of course you can make the excuse "he WaS InJuREd" but the point is: he still did nothing at the USO, so you have no empirical support from Slam results.
Click to expand...

The USO was med this year, not slow, which I thought was a well established fact by now. It was not slow as last year. Wimbledon, on the other was slower with a lower bounce, which definitely helped him, especially with his slice. It also helped him that conditions were slowed which gave him more time, and he was able to hang with Djokovic from the baseline.

It was Federer himself who said he was injured, which is not something I pulled from thin air. I do have empirical support from Slam results. SF and F in RG and Wimbledon, and 4th round in AO.
 
PeoplesChamp

PeoplesChamp

Legend
NoleFam said:
The USO was med this year, not slow, which I thought was a well established fact by now. It was not slow as last year. Wimbledon, on the other was slower with a lower bounce, which definitely helped him, especially with his slice. It also helped him that conditions were slowed which gave him more time, and he was able to hang with Djokovic from the baseline.

It was Federer himself who said he was injured, which is not something I pulled from thin air. I do have empirical support from Slam results. SF and F in RG and Wimbledon, and 4th round in AO.
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2019 U.S. Open is officially listed as slow HC on ultimatetennisstatistics.com
 
PeoplesChamp

PeoplesChamp

Legend
NoleFam said:
2019 USO is listed at 61 speed on ultimatetennisstats, which is considered med fast. I don't know where you got that. They are also off. 90s Wimbledons were medium and 2010's Wimbledon were very fast?
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Pick a player, then 2019, performance, select slow hc, and you will see the U.S. Open labeled slow hard.
 
Enga

Enga

Hall of Fame
Tennis_Hands said:
Only for someone completely ignorant about tennis it comes as a surprise that fast surfaces are detrimental to older players, who have lost a lot of their reflexes and sharpness in their age. The same type of people wouldn't recognise the difference in ability when talking about one player removed over a decade from his peak..

Well done.

:cool:
Click to expand...
Yeah, it shouldn't come as a surprise. I'm gonna get labeled as a Federer apologist, but in recent years I feel Federer isn't that good on fast courts anymore. Speed and reflexes like you mentioned could be part of it. The time when Federer was playing on fast courts regularly was a lifetime ago. Even if he ever was good at it, it has been long enough to forget how. Though I'm not convinced he was ever better at fast courts than slow courts. I've always thought he was simply better at courts that have low bounces because he can cover his weaknesses better and use the biting slice to much better effect.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Enga said:
Yeah, it shouldn't come as a surprise. I'm gonna get labeled as a Federer apologist, but in recent years I feel Federer isn't that good on fast courts anymore. Speed and reflexes like you mentioned could be part of it. The time when Federer was playing on fast courts regularly was a lifetime ago. Even if he ever was good at it, it has been long enough to forget how. Though I'm not convinced he was ever better at fast courts than slow courts. I've always thought he was simply better at courts that have low bounces because he can cover his weaknesses better and use the biting slice to much better effect.
Click to expand...

He was plenty good on fast courts. It is just that when he was emerging the game was moving away from them and he was chasing a moving target and needed to constantly catch up with the changes when he was supposed to just hit his prime. He even changed his racquet head size at a time when it wasn't normal for a player looking for a breakthrough to change at the very moment when he was getting results. People underestimate how much more difficult it is for a player to establish himself when the very conditions he plays in are constantly changing and he has to reinvent himself depending on how the changes he makes affect his results.

:cool:
 
PeoplesChamp

PeoplesChamp

Legend
NoleFam said:
I don't see that. The only tournament that even comes up as "slow" for 2019 when I select Djokovic is MC.
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Now it won't come up for me. It was there, I know I'm not crazy lol. Anyway, they were a tick faster than 2018. I guess they could be considered medium. Still not very quick.
 
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