This girl is hitting perfect ATP forehands, even at 4.5-5.0 level. It’s hard to understand why pro women still mostly insist on WTA style. And that way they’re giving the misogynistic men ongoing grounds to argue that it’s an inherent weakness of women .
WTA style to me is for a developing players who will eventually learn to cut down on the backswing and learn to hit ATP style.
How long do they need to develop for?!
This girl is hitting perfect ATP forehands, even at 4.5-5.0 level. It’s hard to understand why pro women still mostly insist on WTA style. And that way they’re giving the misogynistic men ongoing grounds to argue that it’s an inherent weakness of women .
That is old news, women have occasionally hit atp forehands for 30 years now.
It can work but the advantage for women isn't as big as they don't have as much excess racket speed which means their topspin can sit up when they don't have enough strength.
Errani is a good example for this, she hits a heavy spin and it works on clay but on hard court it can get punished.
If you are strong enough like kuznetsova or stosur it can work though.
It really depends on the body. You need to be able to generate pop in a short window and some prefer a longer and smoother acceleration.
I don't think it is as simple as "the future is ATP and it is just an evolution" because ATP forehands have existed 20 years ago in the WTA (mauresmo, henin) and you could argue that even before that huber, sanchez and sabatini hit atp forehands and yet it didn't fully catch on.
I think it is good for some and not so much for others but the advantage isn't as big as on the atp because you don't have as much excess strength that needs to be converted into spin.
Hmmm. In that case no rec player should try to hit ATP forehands, right?!That is old news, women have occasionally hit atp forehands for 30 years now.
It can work but the advantage for women isn't as big as they don't have as much excess racket speed which means their topspin can sit up when they don't have enough strength.
Errani is a good example for this, she hits a heavy spin and it works on clay but on hard court it can get punished.
If you are strong enough like kuznetsova or stosur it can work though.
It really depends on the body. You need to be able to generate pop in a short window and some prefer a longer and smoother acceleration.
I don't think it is as simple as "the future is ATP and it is just an evolution" because ATP forehands have existed 20 years ago in the WTA (mauresmo, henin) and you could argue that even before that huber, sanchez and sabatini hit atp forehands and yet it didn't fully catch on.
I think it is good for some and not so much for others but the advantage isn't as big as on the atp because you don't have as much excess strength that needs to be converted into spin.
6, 7 years is my guess. Thats with coaching, training partners...How long do they need to develop for?!
Hmmm. In that case no rec player should try to hit ATP forehands, right?!
I presume you don’t think rec people can swing faster than pro women.
... I would laugh at any 4.0 male trying to generate enough power this way. It’s not that it can’t be done, but the 4.0 male adult player just doesn’t have the goods to do this. Nor do most 4.5s.
This girl is hitting perfect ATP forehands, even at 4.5-5.0 level. It’s hard to understand why pro women still mostly insist on WTA style. And that way they’re giving the misogynistic men ongoing grounds to argue that it’s an inherent weakness of women .
In the first video, the girl didn't hit a good ATP forehand, due to her lack use or simply lack of shoulder strength. that makes her over-rotate shoulder. she can get away with it at her current level but this weakness will be explored by opponent if she moves up.
WTA forehand are used by female player by design, not by mistake. Remember this, there are many high paid coaches. When they are paid and train girls doing that, there got to be a reason. Amateurs like us usually aren't more correct.
She's developed that forehand around a rather extreme grip.
I would be extremely surprised if she did anything in regards to stroke production as well as Djokovic.Yeah, Djokovic's grip is plenty extreme. She seems to be going even more extreme. She also doesn't seem to be timing the turn of the racquet into the ball as nicely as he does. But in any case she's hitting the ball well.
I would be extremely surprised if anyone but several ones we all know did anything in regards to stroke production as well as Djokovic. Girl just hits decent forehands, and her main advantage against peers will be ability to hit same quality forehand with shorter preparation, in tighter situations time-wise, therefore her shot tolerance will be higher.I would be extremely surprised if she did anything in regards to stroke production as well as Djokovic.
she finishes too much to the left. the highest racquet head speed happened after contact point.Don't know what you mean by the OP girl overrotating the shoulder. Do not see it in the video.
I often face a choice where I can hit an outright winner or an atp kind of shot that will travel slower and will be returned.Hmmm. In that case no rec player should try to hit ATP forehands, right?!
I think WTA forehand has a relation to the emergence of big babe tennis. I don't remember Graf having such a huge take back either though her FH was neither ATP nor WTA and something else altogether, lol. For really tall women, particularly the more long legged and less balanced ones, it made sense to maximise power and pull the trigger early. I don't know that it needs to be taught to shorter women who could ideally use their better movement to defend well and make their opponents beat themselves. This may be where the coaching got a bit one size fits all.That is old news, women have occasionally hit atp forehands for 30 years now.
It can work but the advantage for women isn't as big as they don't have as much excess racket speed which means their topspin can sit up when they don't have enough strength.
Errani is a good example for this, she hits a heavy spin and it works on clay but on hard court it can get punished.
If you are strong enough like kuznetsova or stosur it can work though.
It really depends on the body. You need to be able to generate pop in a short window and some prefer a longer and smoother acceleration.
I don't think it is as simple as "the future is ATP and it is just an evolution" because ATP forehands have existed 20 years ago in the WTA (mauresmo, henin) and you could argue that even before that huber, sanchez and sabatini hit atp forehands and yet it didn't fully catch on.
I think it is good for some and not so much for others but the advantage isn't as big as on the atp because you don't have as much excess strength that needs to be converted into spin.
Most players would add bigger backswing for power, as kids do for punches and throws unless they are taught the proper way, or have some talent put together with lots of practice to figure better way.Also, there aren't many female rec players in this forum and particularly not those who have played high level tennis as juniors. It would be interesting to ask THEM how they feel about it. I asked my coach whether they intentionally teach girls to have a bigger takeback and he said no, they add a bigger takeback naturally while looking for power. One other thing that doesn't really come out in these ATP vs WTA comparisons is whether the point of contact is the same, whether it is equally out in front for both styles.
This girl is hitting perfect ATP forehands, even at 4.5-5.0 level. It’s hard to understand why pro women still mostly insist on WTA style. And that way they’re giving the misogynistic men ongoing grounds to argue that it’s an inherent weakness of women .
Obviously a good player but I wouldn't say her forehand is a model ATP forehand. She has some aspects but falls short in other respects. One of main similarities is the fact her stroke start to finish remains predominantly on the right side but here's where I see a difference. She actually lays the racquet back in the pat the dog and then accelerates forward. There is a definitely hitch there for anyone with a train coaching eye. ATP players 'flip' their racquet in the uncoiling phase. Also the finish high-above a shoulder delineates a very long vertical swing path. Much more classical then a ATP forehand which is on average more linear compact swing path. Lastly, what's with the Hawaiian grip!??! Anyhow, can you be a 4.5 with no tournament history?!
The wristy-ness of her forehand, probably due to her grip, is going to give her issues with players who hit flag and hard. Lastly couple with a babolat frame, that a recipe for injury.
I wish her well but there will be wrist problems.
This is completely wrong. A number of players on my 4.0 team hit the ATP-style forehands.
Do they average as fast as the professionals? No, but they usually are shorter, older, and spend limited hours training. For example, one of the guys is Filipino, about 5'5", over 50, and looks like he's going to get the bump up to 4.5. His forehand is a weapon.
Do they average as fast of balls as the 4.0 players who hit WTA-style? Yes, probably. When you factor in speed and spin, they hit as well.
I don't think there's any reason for the adult rec-player to worry about the ATP or WTA style. However, from experience, I don't think there's any reason not to teach the ATP-style from the start. With adult men I'm not seeing any loss of pace or spin.
Guys at the 4.0 level are all over the place in terms of how they hit. Some guys only dink. Some guys try to hit as hard as they can. Some look like complete hacks. Others have very pretty strokes. In my experience, the level is defined primarily by less fitness and consistency than higher levels.
With 4.0 Players a "Sitting up" topspin isn't also that big of a problem because even a heavy but soft ball will trouble 4.0 players.
...
So, I take you believe the WTA-style forehand, even at the rec-level, creates a flatter ball?
I'm not sure I completely understand your post. The question above restated: Do you believe the primary advantage/disadvantage to the ATP-fh is more spin production?
I agree in principle however proof is in the pudding. If her forehand is effective vs. her competition and doesn't give her wrist issues more power to her. However, if it doesn't well....a few tweaks might go a long way.I think she is actively using her wrist to accelerate the racquet as she runs out of shoulder and hip rotation, and the windscreen wiper finish instead of a forearm roll is her just bending the elbow. I.e she is forcing it. She is doing her best, but compared to her backhand which just looks natural, even when warming up she can't seem to control the depth or height of shot whereas her partner is giving very consistent balls back.
When match plays begins the points are all forehand short balls or errors, and she runs around many forehands to hit a backhand. So thats how good she feels her forehand is. So maybe its still under construction but also maybe someone just "thinks its better and she should learn it that way" rather than letting the player do what is natural to them. It's the same when choosing a single or double hand backhand, you can add up the positives and negatives all you like but in the end you need to choose the one that is most comfortable for you.
But what do I know
She lays the racket back actively rather than a passive flip back. It’s WTA style, maybe not as exaggerated as others.Giorgi has been doing it for years
No. Not on any that she isn't moving backwards on. It's well within the range of ATP forehands.She lays the racket back actively rather than a passive flip back. It’s WTA style, maybe not as exaggerated as others.
Sorry, no racket flip no ATP forehand.No. Not on any that she isn't moving backwards on. It's well within the range of ATP forehands.
You can see here
You must be blind, it flips like a mofoSorry, no racket flip no ATP forehand.
This is the flip, mate. Not taking the racket head back actively and swinging from there.You must be blind, it flips like a mofo
Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. Great for Federer but you made silly & false claim about women and ATP forehands. Posting a Fed clip doesn't erase that fact.This is the flip, mate. Not taking the racket head back actively and swinging from there.
Anyway, you’ve seen what a real flip is.Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. Great for Federer but you made silly & false claim about women and ATP forehands. Posting a Fed clip doesn't erase that fact.
No one in the world has the loose wrist of the greatest player in history...it's a weak escape hatch to throw up a Fed clip tbhAnyway, you’ve seen what a real flip is.
No one in the world has the loose wrist of the greatest player in history...it's a weak escape hatch to throw up a Fed clip tbh
My presentation skills are as bad as my topspin backhand but did you get my point at least?Less Curious home videos though, ruining the vibe a bit
You are approaching YouTube coach golden rule of not making a video shorter than 8 min no matter how small a thing is. They are obligated, though, by YouTube monetizing principles, but we are free to keep our home videos just as long as needed to depict an idea. Follow the Code!
^Yes on track but not as good imodrops RH back at the end of backswing, but from there she's right on track:
The difference comes further on. She’ll be completing her rotation while swinging arm forward simultaneously. Djokovic will complete torso rotation with arm fully back, no chest flexion, just stretch, then pass the momentum to arm. The marker is exactly what I showed in those still frames: torso already facing the net while arm still trailing.^Yes on track but not as good imo
^See how she's leading with the rotation of the hips and shoulders and the racquet lags behind? That's multi-segmental, perhaps not to the extreme of Djokovic but multi nevertheless.