Babolat Pure Drive Roddick+ and Pure Control+...
No POG will ever serve better than a modern Babolat.
You guys did read I'm talking about spin (not flat) serves, right?
There should be a separate forum for those who believe that racquets, and not the individual players, create the shot.
Too much space is being wasted in this forum on this nonsense.
You might just as well ask 'Which racquet is best for doubles on Tuesday evenings?'.
There should be a separate forum for those who believe that racquets, and not the individual players, create the shot.
Too much space is being wasted in this forum on this nonsense.
You might just as well ask 'Which racquet is best for doubles on Tuesday evenings?'.
There should be a separate forum for those who believe that racquets, and not the individual players, create the shot.
Too much space is being wasted in this forum on this nonsense.
You might just as well ask 'Which racquet is best for doubles on Tuesday evenings?'.
I'm with Deuce on this one. This thread, and the fact it even got responses to the OP's question is ridiculous.
By the way Deuce, best racquet to hit Doubles with Tuesday Evenings would be the <insert racquet here>.
Do you honestly believe that everyone - or even the majority of people - who use a particular racquet will have the same ease hitting kick serves, or angled slice backhands, or drop shots?Well, the POG I asked about is the L-O-N-G-B-O-D-Y, which, regardless of it's 28 inch long length, has a lower sw than the POG OS and, even, the Mid. Everybody (well not everybody, I can see, now) knows that the face of a 28 inch long racquet will travel at a higher speed than that of a 27 inch long one, all other factors being equal. However, if you make the 28 inch long racquet easier to swing, the difference in extra speed is, even, higher. On paper, the POG L-O-N-G-B-O-D-Y seems like spin monster; specially on serves. Basically, what I was asking is if it was as good in practice as it seems to be in theory... Oh and btw, racquets do make a difference. If they didn't neither of you would have selected the models you're using
Do you honestly believe that everyone - or even the majority of people - who use a particular racquet will have the same ease hitting kick serves, or angled slice backhands, or drop shots?
Do you really believe that such generalizations are possible?
Honestly?
If so, we would all have to be built exactly the same way, with the exact same tennis abilities.
This isn't even to mention the variables of string, tension, added weight, shifting balance...
Yeah.
The majority of people that play with common off-the-shelf rackets will have more spin and more pace from a serve with a PD versus the exact same serve with most other rackets. This is assuming they have solid mechanics to begin with.
If one person is in a Porsche and another in a Ford Escort and they race, the majority of the time the person in the Porsche will win. If they both press the pedal (let's say they're automatics) similarly, the Porsche will almost always win.
If neither person can drive, then it doesn't matter. If they can both drive, the result will be predictable.
So... You HONESTLY believe the majority of the time someone won't serve better with a PD?
I think you're arguing just for the sake of argument. I wouldn't be surprised to find out you use a 90 inch frame or that you're against the PD and think it's an awful frame. This forum exists because there are real differences between rackets, many differences that are more subjective than objective.
The MAJORITY of people the MAJORITY of time will gain more pace and spin using a Pure Drive.
You really think I'm wrong?
Do you honestly believe that everyone - or even the majority of people - who use a particular racquet will have the same ease hitting kick serves, or angled slice backhands, or drop shots?
Do you really believe that such generalizations are possible?
Honestly?
If so, we would all have to be built exactly the same way, with the exact same tennis abilities.
This isn't even to mention the variables of string, tension, added weight, shifting balance...
No - it's assuming that they all have essentially the same mechanics - which is not possible.Yeah.
The majority of people that play with common off-the-shelf rackets will have more spin and more pace from a serve with a PD versus the exact same serve with most other rackets. This is assuming they have solid mechanics to begin with.
That's the most irrelevant analogy I've seen in a long time.Bottle Rocket said:If one person is in a Porsche and another in a Ford Escort and they race, the majority of the time the person in the Porsche will win. If they both press the pedal (let's say they're automatics) similarly, the Porsche will almost always win.
If neither person can drive, then it doesn't matter. If they can both drive, the result will be predictable.
I believe that the results of such a 'trial' would be absolutely and entirely unpredictable to anyone who does not personally know the players in question beforehand.Bottle Rocket said:So... You HONESTLY believe the majority of the time someone won't serve better with a PD?
No-one is saying that there are not differences in racquets. If that's the message you're reading, then you're not reading properly.This forum exists because there are real differences between rackets, many differences that are more subjective than objective.
I disagree.Bottle Rocket said:Obviously everyone has different results with different rackets and there are exceptions to all generalities, including the one I am making here. I think when it comes to spin on serves, it's a different animal.
Yes, I really think you're wrong.Bottle Rocket said:The MAJORITY of people the MAJORITY of time will gain more pace and spin using a Pure Drive.
You really think I'm wrong?
Compare to what? It is all relative, right? What is majority of people?? It can be from 16-60 yrs old, 5ft to 6ft+, 100lbs to 200lbs, a very fit person to a weekend warrior? It is different from one person to another person. There is no absolute right or wrong, it is like buying tennis shoes, some need stability, some need cushion, some need traction, etc.
Compared to anything!
Take every tennis player that knows how to hit a consistant serve with spin. Assume none of them currently play with a PD. Now give them all PD's and the MAJORITY of them will hit a serve with more spin. I don't care how old, how tall, how much they weigh, or what size shoe they wear.
This isn't so complicated. I am not saying there is a right or wrong. I am answering the posters original question and trying to defend my position. I think my previous post describes it pretty well.
I think to convince people the racket doesn't make a difference on serve is extremely misleading and dead wrong.
Why are you coming into this thread and taking the position you've taken without even trying a PD?
I'd be interested in your thoughts if you can get your hands on one.
What I am saying is that the racquet won't make the same difference for everyone - even for the majority.I think to convince people the racket doesn't make a difference on serve is extremely misleading and dead wrong.
My coach used to play with the ncode 90 and has been trying the PD for about the last 6 months. Both strung with TiMOs at 60lbs. When serving with the Babolat, I can return his serves with some placement, with kick serves at my chest (I am 6'5"), they have a tremendous amount of pace and spin. However, when he hits his kick serves with the Wilson ncode 90, I struggle just to get it over the net, forget placement. They are usually up around my neck and they feel so heavy that my ncode 6.1 95 (which is not a light racquet) struggles to plow through.
Obviously, some racquets are generally better for spin or certain styles of play; however, IMO, I have seen great serves from a lot of different kinds of racquets (HH, HL, heavy, light, OS, Mid, etc). Also, I have found that the elasticity or flexibility in the service motion, combined with strong momentum produces the best serve, both spin and pace. The idea that you have to be big, strong or swing a heavy (or HH) racquet to get the same results is misleading, IMO.
Hola Wilson,
I think you have problems with the "spin" concept. When you hit topspin against topsin you will feel the pace and spin and should have not much trouble locating your return. If you get underspin and you want to return with topspin, you will struggle. The same with flat balls.
I am sure your coach with his ncode 90 is serving with a lot less spin than with his PD.
My friend (a coach as well) plays with the ncode 90 and when I lent him my SW2 "Unbalanced" PD+ Cortex, served cannon balls. Never seen or felt before. He aced many of his quicks as well.
I do recommend to you some table tennis. That will teach you the basics about spin.
I understand spin, and I understand speculation. How can you claim that he is hitting with less spin? It is just an assumption based on the specs of racquet without any understanding of the player or swing? Rhetorical question, you can't.
And, we really don't need another SW2 discussion as it is irrelevant to this thread. It's seems like these SW2 fanatics look for every post to discuss some magical formula for adding weight to a racquet. If they spent this much time on the court, it wouldn’t matter.
It is my experience that players that rely solely on spin do not have great serves. Great serves come from (i) placement, (ii) depth, then (iii) spin, and finally (iiii) pace. The better variety and mix of these components, the better the service game.
My example was more anecdotal, in that, the technique and service motion are more important than simply the amount of spin. Take a racquet that most assume is not necessarily “spin-friendly” like the ncode 90, and I can attest to the amount of spin and kick you can achieve in the hands of someone with solid technique.
why is the OP's question stupid?
Hola Wilson,
Getting angry does NOT help you. You don't have to go anecdotal on me here. Plus I am not a SW2 fanatic. Just tested it and liked it. But my wrist doesn't take it.
Now regarding spin...any table tennis player will tell you that you have to watch the ball and concentrate on spin. I was trained to watch table tennis balls spin four hours a day six days a week for more than five years. I don't think you can attest to the amount of spin of a tennis ball regardless of techniques.
Not angry, amused by your assumptions without any actual understanding of the situation. And, you may want to look up the definition of anecdotal.
Also, a little advice, if your wrist is hurting, you should probably reconsider your technique? A heavy racquet will slow you swing, but should not cause pain in your wrist unless your technique is poor.
Regarding your last sentence, I am not sure what that is supposed to mean? Are you saying that tennis players can't judge the amount of spin? By your statement, it would appear that you are one of the chosen few in the world that can attest to the amount of spin on a tennis ball, congratulations.
And a bit interested in knowing if the POG LB has a chance of being among them.