Can Serena be considered an all time top 5?
- Thread starter KG1965
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Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Borderline top 10
conjoshruk
Semi-Pro
Personally, I think Serena would be at least no. 2 or 3 on the ATG. She is behind court because of being 1 slam short still. But her 23 slams surely puts her ahead of Evert on 18, I know her win loss percentage is lower then Evert's, but everything else is higher. She's ahead of Graf and Martina N imo.
Definitely top 5!
Definitely top 5!
PerilousPear
Professional
At least in top 5 Serenas of all time
D
Deleted member 22147
Guest
She's been slugging it out against poor opposition in a homogenised era where nobody can hit a volley anymore. Imagine if Graf didn't retire at 30 and tried to keep slugging it out for a decade - she'd have won at least a few more slams.
So no male from the last 15 years is top 5 either?
I'm probably good with that, just checking.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Serena and her marketing team have built her entire legacy and narrative around being the 'GOAT' and claiming the slam record. So sure, let her be top-5, but we all know that falling short of GOAThood, because of how high the bar has been set, will be considered a failure.
Serena - you are NOT the GOAT.
Serena - you are NOT the GOAT.
D
Deleted member 22147
Guest
I'm not one to declare a "greatest of all time", or even a list. i think you're a product of your own era and that's that. But if people are making these lists then that needs to be taken into account - whether people like it or not. You don't just compare players, you have to take into account the sport they are playing.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
Everything else isn't higher than Evert.
Check the records that Evert holds, I think, respectfully, you may be surprised.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Imagining hating Serena so much that you can’t even see her tennis abilities. She’s not the GOAT, that belongs to Steffi but shes 1000% top 5. Margaret doesn’t even factor for those saying she’s in the top 2 let alone top 5.
Dislike Serena for her antics and terrible behaviour sure but don’t pretend she’s not one of the ATG’s.
Dislike Serena for her antics and terrible behaviour sure but don’t pretend she’s not one of the ATG’s.
ibbi
G.O.A.T.
I think she makes a major play for top 5, yes, but never been convinced she'd climb much higher than that. Her success in the 2002-06/07 period when the womens game was actually strong coupled with her stupid longevity are enough to get her that high. I just think the slams she's padded her resume with for the past 10+ years don't hold up to much, and her god tier choke in 2015 is an all time thumbs down.
I think judging her now at 39 years old and holding her failures against her is pretty unfair. Just the fact she's in a semi final is testament to her strengths. Nobody should be winning majors at this age.
I think judging her now at 39 years old and holding her failures against her is pretty unfair. Just the fact she's in a semi final is testament to her strengths. Nobody should be winning majors at this age.
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
I’ve always liked Venus more. Wish she was the more successful sister
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
Sure.
Indeed, Venus has the better game. Too bad for her medical condition that prevented her from playing to the best of her potential.
mxmx
Hall of Fame
I think she's the Atg. If people wanna call Federer the Atg due to being great in more than one generation (even people are moving goalposts with him), we have to treat Serena the same.
Consider who she faced and how long she still is great. Believe me, I HATE the race card, but with her in particular, if she was of different race, people would call her greater than Federer. How can someone with her game, record and goat serve not be considered top 3? To me shes top 1.
Her personality and race should not affect how great she is at the game of tennis.
Consider who she faced and how long she still is great. Believe me, I HATE the race card, but with her in particular, if she was of different race, people would call her greater than Federer. How can someone with her game, record and goat serve not be considered top 3? To me shes top 1.
Her personality and race should not affect how great she is at the game of tennis.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
I wouldn't but she would have to be in the discussion.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
I must have been counting somebody twice. I can't count little Mo because I don't count pre open era players when I think of the men list. Was just thinking of her after I remembered the movie with Leslie Nielsen.
Graf
Navratilova
Evert
Court
Serena Williams
I'd like to include Seles just from childhood memories when she was on fire but that wouldn't be right. Graf is my number 1. The rest can be changed about.
Graf
Navratilova
Evert
Court
Serena Williams
I'd like to include Seles just from childhood memories when she was on fire but that wouldn't be right. Graf is my number 1. The rest can be changed about.
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
She's probably top 5 for me but the chance to be no 1 disappeared a long time ago, regardless of what happens from here. She's now played 10 more years than Graf did and yet only has 1 more slam?
Spencer Gore
Legend
I'd say she just misses the Top 5: Lenglen, Connolly, Court, Navratilova and Graf are ahead of her. But she's definitely Top 10 and an all-time great.
skaj
Legend
Who are you talking about here?
Karma Tennis
Legend
If I take all of the Greatest Women Players in the history of the sport and have to select one in a Battle for the Planet, my pick would be ...
Evert on a Red Clay court.
All the players mentioned above were incredible players at their peak.
But Evert, at her peak, on Red Clay was at another level. Evert excelled across three different Eras of the Game. None of the others did.
Smith-Court changed the Sport during her Era.
Navratilova is possibly the greatest Serve and Volley player of All Time.
Graf amassed and amazing number of Big Titles ... but Seles's shadow looms over that a bit.
Serena has taken the Women's game to another level.
So Evert for mine in Singles.
Smith-Court / Navratilova in Doubles.
... For the Planet !!!
Evert on a Red Clay court.
All the players mentioned above were incredible players at their peak.
But Evert, at her peak, on Red Clay was at another level. Evert excelled across three different Eras of the Game. None of the others did.
Smith-Court changed the Sport during her Era.
Navratilova is possibly the greatest Serve and Volley player of All Time.
Graf amassed and amazing number of Big Titles ... but Seles's shadow looms over that a bit.
Serena has taken the Women's game to another level.
So Evert for mine in Singles.
Smith-Court / Navratilova in Doubles.
... For the Planet !!!
Ginger ninja
Semi-Pro
Evert is not top 5, penalized for her horrific commentating
Court, Graf, Navratilova, Williams and BJK all more worthy (I’d also put Henin and Mo Connolly ahead of her)
Court, Graf, Navratilova, Williams and BJK all more worthy (I’d also put Henin and Mo Connolly ahead of her)
One slam is no big deal, but Court won many more tournaments, has a higher winning % of any other player post 1960 was also a great doubles player. Still, one should not compare players from distant eras. Serena is the greatest of her era which began about 2000, Court was the greatest of her era 61-73, Evert-Navratilova were the greatest of their era 74-late eighties, then Graf till 99 which was a very weak era after Seles was stabbed.
serveandvolley_
Rookie
This is how I see it. Everyone was great in their respective eras.
It's impossible to imagine who would beat who at their peaks as technology and the game has changed too.
On a side note, Serena and Venus' peak were in very strong eras.
D
Deleted member 770948
Guest
D-Lite
Hall of Fame
IconicAmen Amen.
D-Lite
Hall of Fame
Why are you including Connolly? She won 9 majors.
D-Lite
Hall of Fame
I don't get why people are neglecting this, other than to suit their own agenda. Within tennis circles, Serena is overwhelmingly the GOAT or one of the GOATs overall, let alone on the WTA. People are entitled to dislike her for her outbursts and attitude, grunting etc, but some seem to hold such venom for her it just comes across a bit... You know...
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Karma Tennis
Legend
Uh-Oh, watch out ... all the North Americans are starting to wake up for the new day.
Every single one of Margaret Smith-Court's victories is worthy. She was away from her home base for many many months at a time, unlike the majority of her European and North American competition.
In the 1960s, flying around the planet was not the party it is today (pre COVID-19). She conquered the AO AND the overseas events while most of her main competition - who she would easily beat on their Home turf - weren't prepared to come Down Under and compete with her here. You know why? Because they all knew they had no chance of beating her in Australia.
The 2020 US Open was set up for Serena. It should have been a formality for her. Yet she crumbled once again. She is a great player. But she's not the GOAT, whatever that means.
Every single one of Margaret Smith-Court's victories is worthy. She was away from her home base for many many months at a time, unlike the majority of her European and North American competition.
In the 1960s, flying around the planet was not the party it is today (pre COVID-19). She conquered the AO AND the overseas events while most of her main competition - who she would easily beat on their Home turf - weren't prepared to come Down Under and compete with her here. You know why? Because they all knew they had no chance of beating her in Australia.
The 2020 US Open was set up for Serena. It should have been a formality for her. Yet she crumbled once again. She is a great player. But she's not the GOAT, whatever that means.
RaulRamirez
Legend
Yes.
Spencer Gore
Legend
She won 9 slams in a row.
By the age of 19.
She was undefeated at slams from the age of 16.
She won the Grand Slam, the first woman (and second player of any gender) to do so.
She was injured in an accident which ended her tennis career at age 19.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Good for her.
3 of these were US Opens which had a draw size of 8! That's like skipping a full week of a tournament and playing your first match in the Quarter finals. Participation limited to just American and British players.
The other Slams were probably worth a bit more but still had very limited representation - and she got first Round byes in almost all of them
D-Lite
Hall of Fame
Wow, that's very interesting - and it appears she only dropped 1 set in those finals.
Ginger ninja
Semi-Pro
yep, definitely one of the best ever
helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
I don't think the draws were eight players. I think that Wikipedia only has the draw from the last eight on. That's why it calls the draws "Final Eight." Also, Connolly's career win/loss record at the US Open is listed on her page as 19-2, so she clearly won more than three matches in each of her title runs.
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