4.5: Josh v Scott

Cashman

Cashman

Hall of Fame
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Maybe I also ought to back up 3-5' or so? Standing further back would at least give me a bit more time and that seems to have been the most critical variable. I think his depth was more damaging to me than his angle, which argues in favor of scooting back.
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Definitely worth a try. To me, depth is king. If you can hit deeper from further back then you don’t have to worry about angles, because you’re depriving your opponent of good court geometry.

I can’t hit consistently deep to save my life, which is why I always end up at the net. If I stay back I will always cough up a short ball before my opponent does.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Cashman said:
Definitely worth a try. To me, depth is king. If you can hit deeper from further back then you don’t have to worry about angles, because you’re depriving your opponent of good court geometry.

I can’t hit consistently deep to save my life, which is why I always end up at the net. If I stay back I will always cough up a short ball before my opponent does.
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If depth is King, I am the court jester.

And I approach [no pun intended] the solution the same as you: get my butt to the net!
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
1/10 did not S&V on opponent's serve, username does not check out

Just kidding, looks like some great hitting. Haven't been able to watch the whole video yet but hoping to pick up some tactics and such.

Are there any points in the match that you wish you had done differently so I know what to look out for when I watch the whole thing?
 
N

nyta2

Hall of Fame
seems like you did well when you threw up a moonbally type shot, that attacked his strike zone vertically, it often led to you winning the point or putting yourself in control of the point (eg. 1:22, 1:33)
it *seemed* to me like you prefer to drive to the ball, *but* he LIKES when you drive the ball to him, and if you don't penetrate the court (pushing him back), he will attack and put you on the run.
many/most of your drives landed near the service line, and were immediately attacked. while most of your "moonbally" type shots often led to a short ball from him.
my $.02

side note, i have this problem too.. i'm stubborn about hitting my favorite shot(s), even if it means my opponent *likes* when i hit my favorite shot :p
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
nyta2 said:
seems like you did well when you threw up a moonbally type shot, that attacked his strike zone vertically, it often led to you winning the point or putting yourself in control of the point (eg. 1:22, 1:33)
it *seemed* to me like you prefer to drive to the ball, *but* he LIKES when you drive the ball to him, and if you don't penetrate the court (pushing him back), he will attack and put you on the run.
many/most of your drives landed near the service line, and were immediately attacked. while most of your "moonbally" type shots often led to a short ball from him.
my $.02

side note, i have this problem too.. i'm stubborn about hitting my favorite shot(s), even if it means my opponent *likes* when i hit my favorite shot :p
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Couldn't stay away eh?

J
 
OnTheLine

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
nyta2 said:
seems like you did well when you threw up a moonbally type shot, that attacked his strike zone vertically, it often led to you winning the point or putting yourself in control of the point (eg. 1:22, 1:33)
it *seemed* to me like you prefer to drive to the ball, *but* he LIKES when you drive the ball to him, and if you don't penetrate the court (pushing him back), he will attack and put you on the run.
many/most of your drives landed near the service line, and were immediately attacked. while most of your "moonbally" type shots often led to a short ball from him.
my $.02

side note, i have this problem too.. i'm stubborn about hitting my favorite shot(s), even if it means my opponent *likes* when i hit my favorite shot :p
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Oh how I have missed "my $.02" and your signature smiley: :p
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
nyta2 said:
seems like you did well when you threw up a moonbally type shot, that attacked his strike zone vertically, it often led to you winning the point or putting yourself in control of the point (eg. 1:22, 1:33)
it *seemed* to me like you prefer to drive to the ball, *but* he LIKES when you drive the ball to him, and if you don't penetrate the court (pushing him back), he will attack and put you on the run.
many/most of your drives landed near the service line, and were immediately attacked. while most of your "moonbally" type shots often led to a short ball from him.
my $.02

side note, i have this problem too.. i'm stubborn about hitting my favorite shot(s), even if it means my opponent *likes* when i hit my favorite shot :p
Click to expand...

"Welcome Back, Kotter"!

It never occurred to me to moonball as a strategy [a couple were out of desperation and a couple were, shall we say, unoptimally struck] but I get what you're saying. Hitting short is a weakness of mine as this video demonstrates and I did realize I was having better success with the slice because at least it was semi-deep.

But I'll keep the idea in mind for the next time.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Bender said:
Are there any points in the match that you wish you had done differently so I know what to look out for when I watch the whole thing?
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I had a couple of chances on volleys where I just didn't do much with them.

Most of my regrets are at the net. Most of my tactical mistakes were on the BL involving lack of depth but, as Dylan wrote, "You don't need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind is blowing.": anyone can see I'm hitting too short.
 
N

nyta2

Hall of Fame
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
"Welcome Back, Kotter"!

It never occurred to me to moonball as a strategy [a couple were out of desperation and a couple were, shall we say, unoptimally struck] but I get what you're saying. Hitting short is a weakness of mine as this video demonstrates and I did realize I was having better success with the slice because at least it was semi-deep.

But I'll keep the idea in mind for the next time.
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watch kenin's comeback today against ferro... she used a healthy dose of moonballing to cool down ferro, and get her out of rhythm, while buying herself time.
 
N

nyta2

Hall of Fame
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
I had a couple of chances on volleys where I just didn't do much with them.

Most of my regrets are at the net. Most of my tactical mistakes were on the BL involving lack of depth but, as Dylan wrote, "You don't need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind is blowing.": anyone can see I'm hitting too short.
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yeah, you definitely dictated some points, got to net, but didn't do enough to finish it.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
nyta2 said:
yeah, you definitely dictated some points, got to net, but didn't do enough to finish it.
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I was deliberately staying back to force myself to work on my ground game [such as it is]. Normally, I'd be attacking the net like a ravenous diner at a buffet.

And yes, I wasn't volleying as well as I typically do, probably because of the pace and placement of Josh's shots.
 
A

AnyPUG

Hall of Fame
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Watch as my buddy Josh [lefty] gives an object lesson on how to punish short balls.
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Actually, your buddy starts with a lesson on how to get a short weak reply and then punish. tbh, he serves a lot better (more spin and pace) and hits ground shots well. He has got a far superior technique compared to his opponent (mostly hits neutral stance groundies and swings fast on the rise). His opponent's ground shots are open stance without a lot of leg action to compensate for the missing core rotation(which would have come from neutral or semi-open).
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
AnyPUG said:
Actually, your buddy starts with a lesson on how to get a short weak reply and then punish. tbh, he serves a lot better (more spin and pace) and hits ground shots well. He has got a far superior technique compared to his opponent (mostly hits neutral stance groundies and swings fast on the rise). His opponent's ground shots are open stance without a lot of leg action to compensate for the missing core rotation(which would have come from neutral or semi-open).
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Yeah, his opponent has a lot of work to do! :cool:
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
nyta2 said:
hehe, no..
i played @Topspin Shot this weekend (crushed me 3-6 still couldn't break his serve.... though i did improve over the bagel and breadstick he gave me last time)...
after chatting and reminiscing, made me think about you guys, so here i am :p
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Rematch at my club in the spring?

J
 
Papa Mango

Papa Mango

Professional
Finally saw the full video again, Josh has a tick where he turns his head on every groundstroke/OH/volley and still hits a mean clean ball...
How?:unsure:
 
N

nyta2

Hall of Fame
Papa Mango said:
Finally saw the full video again, Josh has a tick where he turns his head on every groundstroke/OH/volley and still hits a mean clean ball...
How?:unsure:
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hehe, definitely play him on clay next time,... and don't brush the courts before hand :p
 
N

nyta2

Hall of Fame
onehandbh said:
Wouldn't fast grass courts be better?
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grass you get a clean bounce, just low... so won't necessarily exploit the fact that he's not keeping his eyes on the contact...
obviously as an s&v'er it's good since the bounce will be low
 
Cashman

Cashman

Hall of Fame
nyta2 said:
grass you get a clean bounce, just low...
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Maybe if you’re playing at Wimbledon, but I don’t think I’ve ever played on a grass court that doesn’t have a decent element of variable bounce.

Different areas of the court will bounce very differently depending on things like wear, grass quality and sun exposure. If it’s a sunny day the bounce can change noticeably over the course of the match. It’s pretty normal to get the odd ball that randomly rears up or dies on you. It’s one of the major incentives to serve and volley.

One of the courts at my club also has a large tree root running under the northern service box, which makes things interesting.
 
Dartagnan64

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
My comments:
1) Black shirt needs to take more advantage of his leftiness and work on a really good slice serve. The toughest lefties I play can hit slice and kick serves from the same toss and it's brutal to judge where it's going after the bounce. Get jammed or stretched for the first 3 service games before I'm able to adjust.

2) Blue shirt is very right in saying that the depth of shot was what got him killed, but it was really who could get the other person running first that was the key. Whoever dictated play and got the opponent hitting on the move, got the short ball to attack most of the time and black shirt definitely did well at the attack.

Definitely looked like black was the all round better player and that blue was just trying to hold on a lot of the time. Reminded me of myself when they asked me to play up in club league a few years ago. I could stay in points for a while but eventually the opponent got the short ball and put me away. If I could get 3 games in a set I felt like a hero.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Dartagnan64 said:
My comments:
1) Black shirt needs to take more advantage of his leftiness and work on a really good slice serve. The toughest lefties I play can hit slice and kick serves from the same toss and it's brutal to judge where it's going after the bounce. Get jammed or stretched for the first 3 service games before I'm able to adjust.
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Josh [black] doesn't have a sick lefty kick like some of the southpaws I play. But his TS serve has plenty of action as viewed from receiver's standpoint. When he develops a flat serve, he'll be even more effective.

2) Blue shirt is very right in saying that the depth of shot was what got him killed, but it was really who could get the other person running first that was the key. Whoever dictated play and got the opponent hitting on the move, got the short ball to attack most of the time and black shirt definitely did well at the attack.
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I [blue] agree although his level is high enough that a short offering will likely result in a good shot that puts me on the defensive. The running is a consequence of the good shot which is a consequence of the short ball.

And it wasn't a two-way street: when I got him on the run, he sometimes came up with pretty darn good passing shots.

Definitely looked like black was the all round better player and that blue was just trying to hold on a lot of the time.
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Yeah; as I wrote in my opening comments, I knew I was in trouble from the very first point based on how he flattened out his BH for a CC winner [OK, not technically a winner since I got my frame on it].

On the upside, I did win the TB in fading light, more due to his errors than my great play though.

Note: I used to be dead even with him in 2018 & 19 [2 losses in 3rd set TBs]. But he has been taking lessons and it showed.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Cindysphinx said:
Another fun video! Thanks for posting.

My feedback is that I wish I had your silky hands.
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Here's my secret: take 20 years off playing and when you return, if your BH is as bad as mine was, you decide that the simplest solution is to come to the net off of everything. This is also how I developed my 1HBH slice [they kind of go together].

You develop net skills very quickly that way.

Have you ever tried the following 2 drills? If you can get the hang of the 2nd one, you officially will have SHs ["Silky Hands"]. It really forces you to relax the grip [is that an oxymoron?] which is so crucial when hitting touch shots.

Give it a try: you'll be completely frustrated at first but gradually you will start getting the hang of it.

www.essentialtennis.com

2 Tips for Better Touch -

Improving Tennis Touch or Hands
www.essentialtennis.com www.essentialtennis.com
 
P

pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Watch as my buddy Josh [lefty] gives an object lesson on how to punish short balls.

From the very first point, I knew I was in trouble.

Our two previous official meetings were 3rd set TBs [he won both]. But he's been taking lessons and it showed...big time.

Comment away. You needn't advise me to hit deeper...I know, trust me.

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Trying to be straight to the point, sorry for the language.

My take on your game:
Lots of sitter volley, you should really look into your volley shots man, look up edberg and practice the volley that actually threaten people.
You don't want your volley to attract lobs, passing shots, or more shots back, otherwise it is not a volley but a point giver.

If you want to earn the name of S&V, at least make your volley a killer, not a sitter.
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
pencilcheck said:
Trying to be straight to the point, sorry for the language.

My take on your game:
Lots of sitter volley, you should really look into your volley shots man, look up edberg and practice the volley that actually threaten people.
You don't want your volley to attract lobs, passing shots, or more shots back, otherwise it is not a volley but a point giver.

If you want to earn the name of S&V, at least make your volley a killer, not a sitter.
Click to expand...

Yea, just play like Edberg.

Idiot.

J
 
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