Djokovic had it the toughest on grass

S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Hitman said:
Lets not forget Djokovic also had to deal with Del Potro's peak on grass also during that time....the five hour epic semi in 2013.
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This one is underrated because of the extremely poor level Djokovic showed in the final. But before the final he was in great form.
 
Third Serve

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
StrongRule said:
This one is underrated because of the extremely poor level Djokovic showed in the final. But before the final he was in great form.
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Same story with USO 2012 but there, the drop in level wasn’t all his fault. Wind had a bit of a role to play.
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
Nadal. He had to deal with peak Federer and peak Djoker.
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Hitman said:
One of my favorite grass court matches of the last 10 years.
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Yes, it was very high quality. Though I didn't believe even for a moment that Del Potro can win the match.

But I understand why Djokovic fans don't talk about it much. It is very hard to take when you fail to win the title after a great win.
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Third Serve said:
Really? After the absolute demolition job against Delpo, I figured that Slam was Djokovic’s.
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He lost the first set 6-2 to Ferrer in the semifinals. I was mad when rain stopped the match. Would be interesting to see how it would continue at the same day.
 
alexio

alexio

G.O.A.T.
NoleFam said:
I had a few of them but that was like 12 years ago. Lol. I'm not buying another Samsung though.
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it's nice to see that you are not one of those people who rush as soon as a new product is released, try to buy a new phone (for example) as soon as possible, who are subject to a universal influence on their brain, and who love and appreciate what they really like, and not what's really fashionable at the moment (especially this tendency is strongly traced among admirers of the iphone;)
 
InsideOut900

InsideOut900

Legend
StrongRule said:
LOL, Nadal wasn't in his prime after AO 2014. He was coming from his worst clay season since 2004.
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His prime ended after Wimbledon 2014, when he got injured before the USO season.

2014 Wimbledon was very much a decent level from him for 3 rounds and just got outplayed by Kyrgios.

Physically he was still in his prime. And if 2018/2019 is post-prime, no reason to think 2014 wasn't still prime.

No version of Djokovic except for 2016-2017 loses to that Kyrgios in Wimbledon. 2019 would be close, but he still did well pre-final.
 
NoleFam

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
alexio said:
it's nice to see that you are not one of those people who rush as soon as a new product is released, try to buy a new phone as soon as possible, who are subject to a universal influence on their brain, and who love and appreciate what they really like, and not what's really fashionable at the moment (especially this tendency is strongly traced among admirers of the iphone;)
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Yea I'm not really someone who will go with what everybody is buying just because it's popular and the "in" thing. I was a big HTC fan and I loved their phones, bought like 3 or 4 of them, but then they basically went under unfortunately. So when I was going to get a new one, I didn't see any phones I liked and didn't want to spend $1000 for another phone when I would have to get another in 2 years, since they never last, so I bought a cheaper Samsung. Not the worst phone I've had but not among the best either.
 
Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
NoleFam said:
Yea I'm not really someone who will go with what everybody is buying just because it's popular and the "in" thing. I was a big HTC fan and I loved their phones, bought like 3 or 4 of them, but then they went basically went under unfortunately. So when I was going to get a new, I didn't see any phones I liked and didn't want to spend $1000 for another phone when I would have to get another in 2 years, since they never last, so I bought a cheaper Samsung. Not the worst phone I've had but not among the best either.
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BB Key2 LE... telling you.
 
Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
StrongRule said:
Yes, it was very high quality. Though I didn't believe even for a moment that Del Potro can win the match.

But I understand why Djokovic fans don't talk about it much. It is very hard to take when you fail to win the title after a great win.
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I talk about it quite a bit. I can look at matches as standalone events, instead of just looking at the whole tournament. Tough loss in the final after the epic semi, but that doesn't dappen how awesome Djokovic v Del Potro W 2013 was.
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
InsideOut900 said:
His prime ended after Wimbledon 2014, when he got injured before the USO season.

2014 Wimbledon was very much a decent level from him for 3 rounds and just got outplayed by Kyrgios.

Physically he was still in his prime. And if 2018/2019 is post-prime, no reason to think 2014 wasn't still prime.

No version of Djokovic except for 2016-2017 loses to that Kyrgios in Wimbledon. 2019 would be close, but he still did well pre-final.
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No. Nadal's prime clearly ended after the injury in AO 2014. Nadal who lost to Ferrer and Almagro on clay, should have lost to Nishikori and Andujar and also struggled against players like Simon and Youzhny was anything but prime. Nothing close to that happened to him in any year between 2005-2013. His level on clay in 2014 was way closer to 2015 than to his prime. And even though he somehow won RG 2014, it was clearly his least impressive slam win. His level at Wimbledon was at most decent, nothing more.

Don't get the comparison with 2018-2019. I rate these two years higher than 2014 for Nadal.
 
The Guru

The Guru

Legend
I mean Nadal faced Fed 3 times in his prime and Djokovic twice in his prime (18 was a prime performance) in 5 of his 6 best runs. It's tough to argue against Nadal having it tougher. He also is kinda to blame for that himself with his injuries and 6 straight years of suckitude. He coulda had some more easy draws like he did in 2010 if he was there to capitalize on them.
 
InsideOut900

InsideOut900

Legend
StrongRule said:
No. Nadal's prime clearly ended after the injury in AO 2014. Nadal who lost to Ferrer and Almagro on clay, should have lost to Nishikori and Andujar and also struggled against players like Simon and Youzhny was anything but prime. Nothing close to that happened to him in any year between 2005-2013. His level on clay in 2014 was way closer to 2015 than to his prime. And even though he somehow won RG 2014, it was clearly his least impressive slam win. His level at Wimbledon was at most decent, nothing more.

Don't get the comparison with 2018-2019. I rate these two years higher than 2014 for Nadal.
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2014 RG was better than any Slam win he got during 2017-2020 (bar FO 17), arguably better than RG 2006 and RG 2013, but on par at the very least.

As for rating 2018 Nadal ahead 2014 at Wimbledon, I am talking about physical capabilities, not level. The fact that he underperformed is another story, but that was no 2015 Nadal who showed up in Wimbledon either.(2015 being a year his game and physical ability were down)

Frankly, except for confidance, I am not even sure how much better Nadal was during Wimbledon 2019-2019, but I guess it's kind of pointless to discuss given he crashed out early in 2014.
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
Were Djokovic has one advantage which i dont think has been mentioned is facing a better Murray on grass.
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
InsideOut900 said:
2014 RG was better than any Slam win he got during 2017-2020 (bar FO 17), arguably better than RG 2006 and RG 2013, but on par at the very least.

As for rating 2018 Nadal ahead 2014 at Wimbledon, I am talking about physical capabilities, not level. The fact that he underperformed is another story, but that was no 2015 Nadal who showed up in Wimbledon either.(2015 being a year his game and physical ability were down)

Frankly, except for confidance, I am not even sure how much better Nadal was during Wimbledon 2019-2019, but I guess it's kind of pointless to discuss given he crashed out early in 2014.
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Based on what? For me it is clearly his worst slam win. He actually had cramps during the fourth set in the final, so physically he was also far from his best. And the comparison with RG 2006/2013 is not even worth a discussion.
 
D

Deleted member 779124

Guest
Djokovic having the tougher draws at the USO most times more than balances it out.

He beat Nadal in 2011 and 2018 as well to win it.
 
R

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
The Guru said:
I mean Nadal faced Fed 3 times in his prime and Djokovic twice in his prime (18 was a prime performance) in 5 of his 6 best runs. It's tough to argue against Nadal having it tougher. He also is kinda to blame for that himself with his injuries and 6 straight years of suckitude. He coulda had some more easy draws like he did in 2010 if he was there to capitalize on them.
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Pretty much this. By straddling the Federer and Djokovic eras, Nadal in general had the toughest comp of the 3, though that doesn’t make him better. He had only 2010 to dominate at his peak while Fred and Nole had a greater number of weak years to feast on. But it’s also not a credit to Nadal that he can’t stay healthy or compete in certain fast and indoor conditions
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
NoleFam said:
I'm sorry but going through a sequence of Tsonga, Cilic, Dimitrov and Federer in the final is tougher than playing a lesser draw and playing Federer in the 2008 final. The reason is, playing many tough opponents wear you down where you are less sharp for the last match. I can think of more than one Slam where this worked against Djokovic and he wasn't as great in the final as he was throughout the tournament, and ended up losing.
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With 2014 you have a great point. Difficult draw for Djokovic.

I just disagree with the other instances.
 
BackhandDTL

BackhandDTL

Hall of Fame
mike danny said:
With 2014 you have a great point. Difficult draw for Djokovic.

I just disagree with the other instances.
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My ass. Djokovic was lucky to play notorious chokers like Cilic and Dimitrov considering he was playing very mediocre tennis until the F.

If he had say 2007 Soderling in the QF/SF he’d be going skiing.
 
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