Hit Easy Slice serve with more power

Rubens

Rubens

Hall of Fame
Excellent video. Not sure whether there's anything new? but great technique.
Here's the same video, without going through the link:

Edit:
Actually, I had some trouble understanding the subtitles, but now I think I understand what part of the teaching is "new". Specifically, it is the idea of deliberately hitting off the center of the string bed (discussed at 5:50 and 14:05 in the video), slightly to the left of the center when looking through the strings... While the idea of deliberately hitting off center is not new, this is the first time I see it being applied to the slice serve. Maybe you guys have seen this before?
Deliberate off-center hits have been strongly debated when discussing ground strokes, and I disagree with trying to do it, as it is hard enough just to hit the sweet spot when receiving fast shots. But the serve is a different beast. Worth trying?
 
Last edited:
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
I just love BS and useless videos because they're all over the place.

Elbow video, wrist video, forearm video, ankle video, milk and cookies video, it never ends.

There's only one way to determine if a spin serve is hit properly. You have to be on the receiving end.

Either the serve "brakes" or it doesn't! Another aspect is how far does it brake and what happens when the spin serve strikes the ground.

Please research before you come up with replies.
 
TennisDawg

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Too much time talking about the continental grip. Just tell the viewers to use the continental grip and move on. A lot of online instructors do that and it’s annoying.
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Jake Speeed said:
I just love BS and useless videos because they're all over the place.

Elbow video, wrist video, forearm video, ankle video, milk and cookies video, it never ends.

There's only one way to determine if a spin serve is hit properly. You have to be on the receiving end.

Either the serve "brakes" or it doesn't! Another aspect is how far does it brake and what happens when the spin serve strikes the ground.

Please research before you come up with replies.
Click to expand...

Please research the difference between brake and break before replying.

J
 
Clash Ah ah

Clash Ah ah

Rookie
Jake Speeed said:
I just love BS and useless videos because they're all over the place.

Elbow video, wrist video, forearm video, ankle video, milk and cookies video, it never ends.

There's only one way to determine if a spin serve is hit properly. You have to be on the receiving end.

Either the serve "brakes" or it doesn't! Another aspect is how far does it brake and what happens when the spin serve strikes the ground.

Please research before you come up with replies.
Click to expand...
I can see from the motion picture what’s happening. Thanks anyway!
 
3virgul14

3virgul14

Rookie
TennisDawg said:
Too much time talking about the continental grip. Just tell the viewers to use the continental grip and move on. A lot of online instructors do that and it’s annoying.
Click to expand...

It might be obvious for you but many lower-level players or beginners have difficulty digesting such info. For me it's still not natural to understand grip changes for different shots.
 
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
Grip changes can be on going during a match. Think about it.

Your wrist is the final "fine tuning element" in awkward shot making. An example would be low shots at the net digging up a well placed drop shot. My single handed backhand grip for ground strokes, would never work for hitting a backhand overhead smash.

I served with an advanced continental grip, for all three serves using pronation, no wrist. Ball toss is the key to accurate placement. That is, where on the court the ball will hit. Yes, body angle and movement also plays a roll in ball placement.

You have to train your mind to "see" all this stuff if the learning process is expected to not be long term.

Because of my concepts in instruction, many called me the Tennis Whisperer. Sounds crazy, but I have
"extreme" issues with the way tennis is taught. Even as far back as 1972 when I started and I find instruction methods haven't improved.

The reason is easy to understand if you're clever enough to see it. The fault lies with the instructors.

JS
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
A no-go without a picture
Eastern_Backhand_Pic.jpg
 
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
J011yroger said:
Eastern backhand you simpleton.

J
Click to expand...

How do you talk to people like you?

I don't hit my backhand with the same grip. Life and tennis isn't that simpleton.

In fact, if I hit two different height balls on my backhand side, depending on the heights, I'll use two different grips.

Get a grip on that,

JS,

Brake, break.
 
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
J011yroger said:
I get along great with people like me, you are probably better off not talking to people like me.

J
Click to expand...
You're talking to me by replying.

I'm giving information up for "everybody."

And there's always someone who tries to do bad with this.

You should think about others.

JS
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Jake Speeed said:
You're talking to me by replying.

I'm giving information up for "everybody."

And there's always someone who tries to do bad with this.

You should think about others.

JS
Click to expand...

I love talking to people like you!

It's the highlight of my day.

If talking to idiots on the internet were a paying job I'd be a billionaire.

I think about others all the time.

J
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
J011yroger said:
Freeze video of your serve at contact. Bet your racquet is too vertical.

J
Click to expand...
So you assumed it’s my grip? Shame, how could you think of me gripping that spin effect Wilson? Weak tt’er...
More on that, you haven’t even payed attention to the fact that the photo has been taken on court, not in the living room..
 
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
J011yroger said:
I love talking to people like you!

It's the highlight of my day.

If talking to idiots on the internet were a paying job I'd be a billionaire.

I think about others all the time.

J
Click to expand...

Why are you so envious and jealous of people you don't know?

Which is the reason you started this.

Possibly, if you were really a tennis Guru, your attitude would be totally different.

You have to have a good looking game first before you put yourself on a pedestal.

JS
 
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
Rubens said:
Sort of like when this thread was started by someone who just wanted to give information for everybody, and your first contribution to the thread was

"I just love BS and useless videos because they're all over the place." ?
Click to expand...

What's wrong with truthful advice? Do you have something against the truth?

JS.
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Dragy said:
So you assumed it’s my grip? Shame, how could you think of me gripping that spin effect Wilson? Weak tt’er...
More on that, you haven’t even payed attention to the fact that the photo has been taken on court, not in the living room..
Click to expand...

Did you do what I said?

J
 
J011yroger

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Jake Speeed said:
Why are you so envious and jealous of people you don't know?

Which is the reason you started this.

Possibly, if you were really a tennis Guru, your attitude would be totally different.

You have to have a good looking game first before you put yourself on a pedestal.

JS
Click to expand...

I do know you.

You are all the same.

J
 
D

dominikk1985

Legend
I didn't watch the video but I hit my lefty slice like this too. Used to hit a carve slice but then a coach in my club told me a trick (wasn't even coaching me that day but just yelled it over the court when he coached another guy:)) which was to use a more extreme BH grip and just do my normal swing with pronation.

It immediately worked very well, it probably has a little top spin component but it has a lot of bite.

Just try it out yourself, do your normal serve (assuming you are able to do a proper pronated serve and no a pancake push serve) but with a full BH grip. Might need to experiment a little with the toss but when you get that right that works well
 
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
I take nothing back as to what I say about tennis instruction.

I tell it like it is, you either get it or you don't.

I will say one thing, I see basic 101 replies all the time even some foolish ones, but I have never commented on these remarks badly or personally. I don't start the trolling.

And FYI, many videos are BS and so is much of the advice.

Pat the dog. :laughing:

JS
 
M

mental midget

Hall of Fame
lots of ways you can hit a slice serve...if you do too much 'carving' though, especially if you're shorter, you can't put too much pace on it and the opponent can see it coming. hitting the ball around 130/2 o'clock, and just angling the face a bit at impact (swing path still mostly into the court, just a slight extra bit of 'carve') should give you all the angle you need, with velocity.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
I also find that if I just carve around the outside of the ball, I only get a lot of side spin. If I do proper internal shoulder rotation (ISR) on the finish which is more aligned with how the top pros hit, my serve is much heavier and harder to return. Then, I don’t have to place it very wide and I can still bother the returner.
 
soft_manatee

soft_manatee

Rookie
jacob speed

i would <3 to hear more about ur coaching theory

we here at the usta r looking 4 a genius outsider 2 redefine our approach to comp. development and reading ur posts calling out online tennis instructors, it really struck me that u might b the guy

its getting harder and harder 2 find a lone wolf who doesnt play by the rules and who tells it like it is!

msg me 4 deets: pmcenroe69@usta dot gov
 
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
Interesting inquiry.

I'd be hard pressed to believe Patrick McEnroe is hanging out in this Forum? If I made the inquiry, it would be private.

But that's me.

Nice try.

JS
 
D

Deleted member 771407

Guest
3virgul14 said:
Hi folks, have seen the video of the Matsuo pro, the guy makes it really easy with a trick in the grip and where to hit the ball.

It is going for a hitting action - pronation rather than carving the ball. Very interesting imho. Anyone tried before?

- TENNIS FREAKSEasy way to slice serve
Click to expand...

I think there is very little difference in the technique of all 3 serves (flat, slice and kick), what really changes is the contact point, and how much you push up vs forward with your legs (kick vs flat and slice)

I have had good success on the slice recently, in fact if I don't focus on hitting flat my serves will end up with some degree of slice. I won a lot of easy points on the T during advantage and wide during deuce.
Carving the ball really isn't the right way of thinking about it, in the beginning anyway, and I'm amazed this video is the only one pointing it out. In terms of feeling you will end up feeling that you are "brushing" or carving the ball ever so slightly, but it is still achieed through pronation and a relaxed arm. It's just contact point and timing, the overall gesture is the same.
 
D

Deleted member 771407

Guest
Rubens said:
Excellent video. Not sure whether there's anything new? but great technique.
Here's the same video, without going through the link:

Edit:
Actually, I had some trouble understanding the subtitles, but now I think I understand what part of the teaching is "new". Specifically, it is the idea of deliberately hitting off the center of the string bed (discussed at 5:50 and 14:05 in the video), slightly to the left of the center when looking through the strings... While the idea of deliberately hitting off center is not new, this is the first time I see it being applied to the slice serve. Maybe you guys have seen this before?
Deliberate off-center hits have been strongly debated when discussing ground strokes, and I disagree with trying to do it, as it is hard enough just to hit the sweet spot when receiving fast shots. But the serve is a different beast. Worth trying?
Click to expand...

I think the main "new" theory is to not focus on carving the exterior of the ball but focus on the timing of the pronation.
 
Jake Speeed

Jake Speeed

Professional
Gael4 said:
I think there is very little difference in the technique of all 3 serves (flat, slice and kick), what really changes is the contact point, and how much you push up vs forward with your legs (kick vs flat and slice)

I have had good success on the slice recently, in fact if I don't focus on hitting flat my serves will end up with some degree of slice. I won a lot of easy points on the T during advantage and wide during deuce.
Carving the ball really isn't the right way of thinking about it, in the beginning anyway, and I'm amazed this video is the only one pointing it out. In terms of feeling you will end up feeling that you are "brushing" or carving the ball ever so slightly, but it is still achieed through pronation and a relaxed arm. It's just contact point and timing, the overall gesture is the same.
Click to expand...

Ball placement, contact point, racket direction and obviously pronation.

Those things vary depending on the serve, but none of this is difficult.

Here's the secrete. I had all my students learn a proper service motion before hitting balls into the service area for placement.

I would have them turn their backs to the net and just serve balls into the back curtain.

I'm giving up information seen no place in the Forum La La Land. And I get trolled. :laughing:

Pat your dog. :p
 
G

GuyClinch

Legend
This is a cool video - like pro who is learning - I tried hitting slice serves but just swinging across the right side of the ball - the 'slicing' idea. This gets you alot of bend - but not much power. And just like the pro I felt weird hitting this to the center - because you end up slicing almost behind the ball. But Takako Suzuki idea of timing the pronation - catching the ball a little lower and hitting with trailing on inside of racquet seems to solve all those problems.

I think lots of people use the Suzuki idea without really being able to verbalize it - even people who talk about just using the slicing motion - they still let the pronation happen. But here he really explained in detail what you want to happen at contact.. So strikes me as a good video. And the guys slice serve was pretty excellent - good bend and good zip..

I have to test this out.. But I think its going to help.
 
Dragy

Dragy

Legend
Jake Speeed said:
Here's the secrete. I had all my students learn a proper service motion before hitting balls into the service area for placement.

I would have them turn their backs to the net and just serve balls into the back curtain.
Click to expand...
It’s a very good approach for initial motion learning (and for cleaning up techniques midway).

(However, it’s not a novelty and has been discussed multiple times on here)

Now when coaches put newbies with no ingrained motions at the baseline and make them try serving into the box... that goes all the ways but one leading to correct techniques.
 
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