J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Everyone on this forum is an "outlier" ... and I'm not talking about tennis technique.
I'm nuttier than a Payday bar.
J
Everyone on this forum is an "outlier" ... and I'm not talking about tennis technique.
I'm nuttier than a Payday bar.
J
I've tried it because of Agassi's takeback. But for some reason it cause open face at contact too and too flat of a shot. Now I just take racquet back and don't worry too much about the face angle.
your wording connotes that you think it's "wrong" somehow... which is how i used to think...get away with it....
this has nothing to do with topspin or backspin... (a club face is angled to promote backswing, but both racquet and golf club need to be "square" at contactI only looked at the first bh In the video, but judging from that, regarding your golf swing comparison, you are of course comparing a topspin groundstroke, with a backspin golf shot. The more vertical plane of the golf swing naturally results in a more open clubface as well.
your wording connotes that you think it's "wrong" somehow... which is how i used to think
but what i'm saying is at least one high level specifically teaches it this way
this has nothing to do with topspin or backspin... (a club face is angled to promote backswing, but both racquet and golf club need to be "square" at contact
the core concept is the forearm rotation part (which to me is more pronounced when the racquet face is open on the backswing)
IMO, and from experimenting, opening the face on the 2hbh backswing rotates the forearm "away" from contact more, giving you more "runway" to rotate the forearms into contact for more racquet head speed (but previously i presumed that any gains in rhs would be offset by being more inconsistent...
and presumed that only elite athletes like hewitt had the talent to pull it off... so a no-talent-bum like me should stay away from it.
As you tagged me... imho, arm-roll contribution is grip-dependent. With full W grip it all goes into spin. Now with conti - think of serve, the famous "pronation" or ISR, as we got educated by @Chas Tennis - goes fully into pace. We may conclude, disregarding odd wrist positions, that with E grip (non-dominant hand for 2HBH) arm internal rotation, aka rolling, will add to pace quite a bit.Interesting that you are thinking arm rotation adds to rhs ... I've always thought that about the flip fh. Now I have started to question that in my mind. I now wonder if arm rotation on flip is only adding to topspin (more rh drop and more ww ???). If arm roll adds rh propeller, and any release of wrist extension adds 2nd lever release (nunchucks) ... is it only the lever release that adds to rhs? Note: if nunchucks also has a rotation element ... than I need a different analogy.
I've asked that here on ttw several times ... no bites ... I thought it would it would definitely be @Dragy catnip.
To me ... the main elements of 2hbh pace ... in this order were 1) shoulder turn 2) left arm extending straight into contact 3) lag/waggle with very relaxed hands/wrist. That said ... only hit from open backswing, so nothing to compare to other than a frustrating 30 minutes with ball machine trying to stay square/closed in 2hbh backswing.
lol, i'm not smart enough to understand what you just wrote...Interesting that you are thinking arm rotation adds to rhs ... I've always thought that about the flip fh. Now I have started to question that in my mind. I now wonder if arm rotation on flip is only adding to topspin (more rh drop and more ww ???). If arm roll adds rh propeller, and any release of wrist extension adds 2nd lever release (nunchucks) ... is it only the lever release that adds to rhs? Note: if nunchucks also has a rotation element ... than I need a different analogy.
I've asked that here on ttw several times ... no bites ... I thought it would it would definitely be @Dragy catnip.
To me ... the main elements of 2hbh pace ... in this order were 1) shoulder turn 2) left arm extending straight into contact 3) lag/waggle with very relaxed hands/wrist. That said ... only hit from open backswing, so nothing to compare to other than a frustrating 30 minutes with ball machine trying to stay square/closed in 2hbh backswing.
As you tagged me... imho, arm-roll contribution is grip-dependent. With full W grip it all goes into spin. Now with conti - think of serve, the famous "pronation" or ISR, as we got educated by @Chas Tennis - goes fully into pace. We may conclude, disregarding odd wrist positions, that with E grip (non-dominant hand for 2HBH) arm internal rotation, aka rolling, will add to pace quite a bit.
that is/was my experience as well... in general i'm searching for dumbed down technique(s) that even a talentless guy like me can execute.I've tried it because of Agassi's takeback. But for some reason it cause open face at contact too and too flat of a shot. Now I just take racquet back and don't worry too much about the face angle.
that's definitely what i'm learning nowOne thing I've learnt over time, regarding tennis, is to try not to dismiss anything that works for someone as poor technique (which you weren't necessarily doing), or something that will "only work for them", you'll be surprised with the gains you can make if you give unorthodox techniques a chance.
lol, i'm not smart enough to understand what you just wrote...
but i specifically was addressing "forearm" rotation (not arm) contributing to overall rhs... kinda like how pronating (forearm rotation) contributes to rhs on the serve.
Well there's another layer of different arm bend: I suppose, bent-arm FH makes RF travel into the ball more with strong grips because of ISR. So for Sock upper arm internal rotation still contributes to RH coming from lagged position into and past contact.So ... we would expect Federer fh is gaining more rhs with the flip arm rolling than say a Sock.
that is/was my experience as well... in general i'm searching for dumbed down technique(s) that even a talentless guy like me can execute.
Well there's another layer of different arm bend: I suppose, bent-arm FH makes RF travel into the ball more with strong grips because of ISR. So for Sock upper arm internal rotation still contributes to RH coming from lagged position into and past contact.
Now if you compare Fed's almost-eastern and Nadal strong-SW, the latter will convert more arm roll into spin, while the former - into pace. But actually both are reasonable to apply RHS for combo of spin and pace.
I’m happy now arm roll is King! Well, after torso turn which is Emperor...Regardless ... you have me back to thinking most ATP forehands are gaining rhs (not just spin) with the flip.
i always suffering from kaizen, something i hope to never be cured...I remember your 2hbh looking very solid ... you haven't caught that @Curious disease have you.
i always suffering from kaizen, something i hope to never be cured...
that is/was my experience as well... in general i'm searching for dumbed down technique(s) that even a talentless guy like me can execute.
makes sense...For me the RF angle at takeback is all about the left hand grip. With a solid Eastern, the RF is slightly closed.
Have you had your morning coffee? Time for a pirate quiz question:
Nadal has just hit is max rhs flattest fh with a closed rf. It travels on a line for a good distance before spin/gravity turns it into a heavy dipping path.
Quiz question:
Assuming everything the same ... incoming ball, racquet, strings, etc ... could Nadal reproduce that same shot with a square rf if you allow him to alter swing path and swing speed?
You are going to be torn between saying you don't do ttw quizzes and a derogatory dark shade response.
I do not want to filter out _all_ posts by @travlerajm . But could I ask for a feature where I could put on a banned list _any_ post that refers to using a wristband?? I can't take it anymore......No.
For example. There is only one guy in history among pros (to my knowledge) who used a 27.5” frame at 12 ounces and with 360sw and who didn’t use a wrist band. That’s an extreme outlier racquet spec. It’s almost impossible to hit a decent volley with a spec like that, so no one else would try to play with something like that. But that spec makes it easy to really whip the racquet down and up on the serve to generate a lot of racquet head speed with outlier technique that no else uses, so that guy won a few trophies.
I do not want to filter out _all_ posts by @travlerajm . But could I ask for a feature where I could put on a banned list _any_ post that refers to using a wristband?? I can't take it anymore......
makes sense...
reminds me of what jolly mentioned earlier (eg. the open face on take back is partially a function of your grip and type of shot you're trying to hit)..
i have a grip closer to semi-western which is probably why i tend to have a vertical/closed face on takeback
I feel your pain. I definitely do not understand - but I do sympathize ... BTW - that is why I did not want to get married - I was afraid that an added weight of a wedding band would adversely affect my forehand......You don't understand the blood, sweat, and tears it took to rework my backhand after switching to a Galaxy watch from my Fitbit...
J
yeah in one of the books I have it has a matrix discussing the pro/cons of the left/right grip combinations. then I think the yandell site has an article(s) about the bend configurations of the arms. somewhere I was reading about the different take backs (straight, loop, etc,...). at some point I was researching the amount of racquet drop via the left hand (eg 0 to 45degrees).The more one talks about 2hbhs ... the more you find out how many ways there are to hit one. I'm barely gripping the racquet with my left hand on backswing ... racquet and rf controlled by right arm/hand. Just checking with shadow swing ... about all left arm/hand is doing is help support rh up position. This continues through going into lag with the telltale bowed right hand (right hand bows racquet down to lag position ... left hand still doing nothing more than light grip).
Then from lag ... arm triangle swing mainly controlled by right arm until the left arm extending/hitting.
It's my right hand (cont) that is controlling rf all the way to contact. At contact ... less than clear to me how much left hand eastern grip is controlling rf vs right hand, because at contact both hands working together virtually as a single grip.
If I had to only pick one at contact controlling rf ... it would be the right hand, with left primarily boosting the pushing of arm triangle into contact. Obviously not totally that simple ... because what about those shots from your bh corner where you do a little extra with left hand for cc angle. ???
Some evidence for me that my right hand was dictating more of the rf at contact was experimenting with grip changes with ball machine. When I kept my right cont, and moved left from east to sw ... good to go. I didn't like it as well ... but no problem hitting the same basic stroke. BUT ... when I rolled my right from cont to lf east ... BAD things happened. I have no idea how many reps it would have taken to be "good to go".
IMO ... the fact you can hit a 2hbh with so much variation including stances makes it a very fun stroke. My guess is it worked in my favor during tournament years to hit 1hbh (particularly slice) because even if my baseline game was stronger with the 2hbh ... I needed to be a s&v player for best results. For one thing ... I was never in the kind of shape to play every match in a long grinding match from the baseline. 1hbh skills (or lack of) migrated to net skills. Most players with decent 1hbh are going to hit a decent bh volley. Also c&c ... 1hbh slice.
Close but not exactly the same.
Remember that half of the reason for racquet face angle is to counter the incoming ball (both trajectory and spin) so when I work on technique with a student and we do hand feeds first, then racquet feeds, then progress to hitting you will see the racquet face closing slightly (very slightly) in each progression, so if you tried to hit with a closed racquet face against some park player bozo you would hit the ball into the ground on your side of the court before it even got to the net
J
I feel your pain. I definitely do not understand - but I do sympathize ... BTW - that is why I did not want to get married - I was afraid that an added weight of a wedding band would adversely affect my forehand......
yeah in one of the books I have it has a matrix discussing the pro/cons of the left/right grip combinations. then I think the yandell site has an article(s) about the bend configurations of the arms. somewhere I was reading about the different take backs (straight, loop, etc,...). at some point I was researching the amount of racquet drop via the left hand (eg 0 to 45degrees).
definitely a lot of variety. maybe at the end of the day, the solution is just to put a lot of hours on the court and do what comes naturally to allow you to consistently achieve your goal (eg, consistency, depth, pavement, power).
I brought my buddy's racquet to be strung and my stringer said "I didn't know he was married." I was like how do you know he is married, and my stringer pointed to the racquet where the paint was worn off the throat from the wedding ring on his prep for 1hbh.
J
hah, i just looked at my racquets... same chips! i too was wondering how the heck they get chipped there (no chance unless i throw it at a fence).I brought my buddy's racquet to be strung and my stringer said "I didn't know he was married." I was like how do you know he is married, and my stringer pointed to the racquet where the paint was worn off the throat from the wedding ring on his prep for 1hbh.
J
I brought my buddy's racquet to be strung and my stringer said "I didn't know he was married." I was like how do you know he is married, and my stringer pointed to the racquet where the paint was worn off the throat from the wedding ring on his prep for 1hbh.
J
makes sense...
reminds me of what jolly mentioned earlier (eg. the open face on take back is partially a function of your grip and type of shot you're trying to hit)..
i have a grip closer to semi-western which is probably why i tend to have a vertical/closed face on takeback
so now my wife found out about these posts and she wants to meet @travlerajm. To scold the person that is responsible for delaying our wedding....I feel your pain. I definitely do not understand - but I do sympathize ... BTW - that is why I did not want to get married - I was afraid that an added weight of a wedding band would adversely affect my forehand......
Jim Courier was talking about this at the Aussie open during the Kyrgios /Thiem match. Seems like Kyrgios (and a few other pros) hit their 2hbackhands with a slightly opened racquet face.
the commentary team seems to think it’s more of a result of wanting to bunt the ball back rather than drive at it. Probably wouldn’t see djokovic hitting such a shot.