Blade V7 Tennis Elbow??

Dartagnan64 · Feb 24, 2021

Robert F said:
Dartagnan64 suggested a similar idea that the added flex of the V7/lower power had me taking bigger cuts at the ball to get the same level of power. On court, I did feel at times I had to be more aggressive to get a similar response with the V7 compared to the V6.

I love 4G for its tensioin maitenence, so if I can get back into my V6's with lower tension 4G and keep tennis elbow at bay, I'll attempt lower tension 4G in the V7s.

Ditch 4G. Put in Velocity, Prince Premier Control or Technifibre Triax and keep the tensions down and focus on hitting smooth with a loose grip.
Once you get to this stage of TE you have to either abstain from tennis or totally soften everything up. You will not get better with any racket with 4G in it.

Take it from someone that has made that mistake not once but twice

Robert F · Feb 24, 2021

I think I'm addicted to 4G.
I was thinking of going to 48 pounds with 4G/TNT hybrid, then 48 pound with 4G soft if doing well. Then maybe 4G at 48. If it all works out well, then maybe try the V7's in the softest setup.
Got me thinking of trying some softer polys first.
At home I have 4G, 4G soft, KB Proline 2, Silver Tourna 7, and TNT.
Would the Proline 2 or Silver Tourna 7 be softer?

Outside of lower tension and softer strings, would there be any benefit of adding some weight to the handle to counteract the relative head heaviness?

Stratotanker · Feb 24, 2021

Pro Line II 1.30 stiffness is 209.7lb/in, while 4G 1.30 stiffness is 286.9lb/in.

Velocity 1.25 (Head's multi) is 153!

You can lookup most strings and their lb/in stiffness rating with TW's tool at this link: http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/reporter2.php.

The bottom line is that 4G is just brutal in terms of stiffness. I'm another voice for using a multi for at least one string job, just to see. You will simply not get better unless you give yourself a serious break from the poly.

Robert F · Feb 24, 2021

Great resource! Thanks.

Dartagnan64 · Feb 25, 2021

Robert F said:
I think I'm addicted to 4G.
I was thinking of going to 48 pounds with 4G/TNT hybrid, then 48 pound with 4G soft if doing well. Then maybe 4G at 48. If it all works out well, then maybe try the V7's in the softest setup.
Got me thinking of trying some softer polys first.
At home I have 4G, 4G soft, KB Proline 2, Silver Tourna 7, and TNT.
Would the Proline 2 or Silver Tourna 7 be softer?

Outside of lower tension and softer strings, would there be any benefit of adding some weight to the handle to counteract the relative head heaviness?

None of those strings will be soft enough. Ditch the poly until the arm heals. Unless you are making money at the sport, fooling around this way with TE is a bad idea. Even pro's take time off tennis if they get these sorts of injuries.

You either stop entirely or you soften everything to the max. If softening everything to the max still causes pain then stop entirely.

I'm going through my second bout of TE right now and I'm using a Phantom 100 O3 with Head Velocity. That's about as soft as someone can go without stopping playing entirely. My arm was starting to improve so I tried my Phantom 107G with gut/Cream and after one session is was worse again so back to the soft set up for a few more weeks.

My first bout of TE I tried to do things like you. Hybrids, lower tensions, moving weight around, lower RA racket. Took a year to hit on the Phantom with multis and that was the Eureka! moment. TE went away in about 4 weeks.

jalapeno74 · Feb 25, 2021

Fully agree with Dartagnan64 here.

Stop using Poly - period. Simple as that.
Use a low RA racket and string it up with a full bed of Multi (like Velocity) or Natural Gut and accept the fact that you need to change your game for the next weeks/months. It is the only way to continue playing

Robert F · Feb 25, 2021

My only argument with going to the low RA, is that I got the TE on a lower RA racquet. I was using V6 of blade for a few years and V5 before that which I think is a 66/67RA and then went to V7 which is a 62. Same strings and tension and then TE.

You could argue I was a TE waiting to happen and got lucky hitting with 4G for years in the Blades. It just seemed so odd it came about within 2 sessions on the lower RA racquet.
Regardless, I think I better string my V6 with a multi before considering a hybrid.

Villain · Feb 25, 2021

Personally, while I do think racquet stiffness makes some difference, I think string stiffness has a much larger impact for those experiencing arm issues. Give some softer strings (no poly, not even a “softer” poly) a try first and then assess where you’re at and see if you can continue playing. If a synthetic gut or multi works, stick with it for awhile. If not, natural gut and a lower RA racquet is your only real choice.

Dartagnan64 · Feb 25, 2021

Robert F said:
My only argument with going to the low RA, is that I got the TE on a lower RA racquet. I was using V6 of blade for a few years and V5 before that which I think is a 66/67RA and then went to V7 which is a 62. Same strings and tension and then TE.

You could argue I was a TE waiting to happen and got lucky hitting with 4G for years in the Blades. It just seemed so odd it came about within 2 sessions on the lower RA racquet.
Regardless, I think I better string my V6 with a multi before considering a hybrid.

Sometimes its not just RA which is merely a number reflecting flex in the hoop. There are some lower RA rackets that's aren't very arm friendly and some higher RA rackets that are arm friendly. It's about where you put the flex and where you put the weight.

That being said, I think strings and tension make more of a difference than the frame. The first point of shock absorption comes with the string-ball interaction. If that is significantly absorptive, then you can play with a steel racket and not feel anything. If there's no give in the stringbed, then all that shock goes into the frame and down the arm.

Big reason that so many power tweeners are arm killers is that they are so powerful that players use high tension poly in them. If they merely used muli they'd be fine. They'd launch balls everywhere, but the arm would hold up.

Robert F · Feb 25, 2021

With the full multi still string 48? Or 50?
Updated plan V6 in multi at 48, if doing well, go to hybrid with soft poly/multi, if going well go to higher tension hybrid or possibly full soft poly. then if doing well give V7 a try again in either hybrid or soft ploy.

eb_tennis_247 · Feb 26, 2021

Robert F said:
I've strung them the same with 4G usually between 52-54 pounds. With V5 and V6 no tennis elbow. Now after a few weeks with V7, I'm getting tennis elbow almost to the point where I'm thinking about taking some time off.

I’ve struggled with TE and it got worse on v7 (which I love).

my culprits were, I think:

1. Going from Clash Tour to Blade v7 16x19, I had timing issues which caused me to hit late and mishit
2. Mishits were more jarring
3. My pro strung it with HyperG at 55+, which killed my arm and shoulder
4. I played a lot with it
5. I hit tennis ball machine, with pressures balls, a lot
6. I served a lot and top of the frame mishits hurt my shoulder and elbow
7. It is a low(er) powered, control racquet, so it can tax your arm if your technique is not perfect

Now, I am on Clash 98, with gut, and it is a real therapy. Great racquet, shares many qualities with Blade. Easier to play with, more spin, more power, totally comfortable. Not a “blade” precision.

I do intend to heal my elbow, fix issues (1)-(6) where I can (e.g., play with Velocity MLT, adjust technique, adjust to timing through Clash 98), and probably go back to playing with Blade later in 2021.

Wilson Blade v7 16x19 is an amazing racquet for me, so I am going to fix my tennis so I can play it (Clash 98 is pretty awesome too).

Brad N. · Feb 27, 2021

Tennis elbow has a lot to do with poor technique. I would search some youtube videos to see where your faults are with the volley and slice or maybe even take some lessons with a local pro.

esm · Feb 27, 2021

eb_tennis_247 said:
I’ve struggled with TE and it got worse on v7 (which I love).

my culprits were, I think:

1. Going from Clash Tour to Blade v7 16x19, I had timing issues which caused me to hit late and mishit
2. Mishits were more jarring
3. My pro strung it with HyperG at 55+, which killed my arm and shoulder
4. I played a lot with it
5. I hit tennis ball machine, with pressures balls, a lot
6. I served a lot and top of the frame mishits hurt my shoulder and elbow
7. It is a low(er) powered, control racquet, so it can tax your arm if your technique is not perfect

Now, I am on Clash 98, with gut, and it is a real therapy. Great racquet, shares many qualities with Blade. Easier to play with, more spin, more power, totally comfortable. Not a “blade” precision.

I do intend to heal my elbow, fix issues (1)-(6) where I can (e.g., play with Velocity MLT, adjust technique, adjust to timing through Clash 98), and probably go back to playing with Blade later in 2021.

Wilson Blade v7 16x19 is an amazing racquet for me, so I am going to fix my tennis so I can play it (Clash 98 is pretty awesome too).

It might be the strung V7 balance and SW causing you all these problems.

Villain · Feb 27, 2021

Robert F said:
With the full multi still string 48? Or 50?
Updated plan V6 in multi at 48, if doing well, go to hybrid with soft poly/multi, if going well go to higher tension hybrid or possibly full soft poly. then if doing well give V7 a try again in either hybrid or soft ploy.

You can go a little higher. Try somewhere around 54-56 and see how that goes. It will still be far more comfortable than a poly at a much lower tension.

Fxanimator1 · Feb 27, 2021

Get rid of the 4G.

tennis347 · Feb 27, 2021

I have to agree that tennis elbow stems from technique mostly and secondly the racquet set up. Poly can be an arm killer if strung too tight and not changed frequently. The Blade v7 line is probably one of the most arm friendly players frames on the market. The problem comes in with their quality control. If you happen to get a racquet that is way above spec, this could contribute towards arm problems if you can't handle the higher SW. My suggestion is to pay the extra money to get a Blade that is at spec SW or slightly below. Lastly, in order to use the Blade you need sound technique and be at least a strong 3.5 or above. I have had some shoulder and minor elbow issues for years and have suffered any injuries playing with the Blade v7 98 16 x 19. The feel is the biggest selling point for me! The Clash 98 is not a bad racquet but it lacked stability and felt a bit hollow with balls hit in upper hoop. The Blade v7 is a really solid racquet and even on mishits there is no shock transmitted to the arm. I only use synthetic strings these days. Put a synthetic string in the Blade and you will never get any arm issues!

Dartagnan64 · Feb 27, 2021

eb_tennis_247 said:
Now, I am on Clash 98, with gut, and it is a real therapy.

Everyone with a history of TE needs to have a "comfort setup" they can go to when the arm acts up. Mine is the Phantom 100 O3 with gut or multi strings. Clash is a good option too depending on whether you want more power in the frame.

esm said:
It might be the strung V7 balance and SW causing you all these problems.

If you end up hitting late or on the frame or having to swing harder with a new frame, then yes, even a low RA frame can cause issues. Not sure SW by itself is an issue but rather how it may affect getting the frame to the ball on time, out front and on the sweetspot,

mike schiffer · Feb 27, 2021

Yeah it might be the stiff poly string.....no it's the grip.....no might be the racquet......no no wait it might be your brand of socks......you poly fiends love that string till it puts you on the sidelines knitting an elbow warmer......try a "soft poly.....lower your string tension.....arrrrrgh.......it's the poly, geniuses......syn gut,multies, nat gut good....poly bad......when you guys wake up and smell the tiger balm...I'll be over here playing without pain.....

Robert F · Feb 27, 2021

tennis347 said:
I have to agree that tennis elbow stems from technique mostly and secondly the racquet set up. Poly can be an arm killer if strung too tight and not changed frequently. The Blade v7 line is probably one of the most arm friendly players frames on the market. The problem comes in with their quality control. If you happen to get a racquet that is way above spec, this could contribute towards arm problems if you can't handle the higher SW. My suggestion is to pay the extra money to get a Blade that is at spec SW or slightly below. Lastly, in order to use the Blade you need sound technique and be at least a strong 3.5 or above. I have had some shoulder and minor elbow issues for years and have suffered any injuries playing with the Blade v7 98 16 x 19. The feel is the biggest selling point for me! The Clash 98 is not a bad racquet but it lacked stability and felt a bit hollow with balls hit in upper hoop. The Blade v7 is a really solid racquet and even on mishits there is no shock transmitted to the arm. I only use synthetic strings these days. Put a synthetic string in the Blade and you will never get any arm issues!

Agree technique can be a factor. But I haven't purposely changed anything recently. Of course things can slide.
What is odd for me is technique seemed the same, played with Blade V5 and V6 for years with 4G strung between 52 and 55 for years. Then go to V7 for 2 sessions and out comes the TE. Out of nowhere. And spec wise, you'd think it would be easier on my arm.
My guess its the added flex required me to swing harder.

tennis347 · Feb 27, 2021

Robert F said:
Agree technique can be a factor. But I haven't purposely changed anything recently. Of course things can slide.
What is odd for me is technique seemed the same, played with Blade V5 and V6 for years with 4G strung between 52 and 55 for years. Then go to V7 for 2 sessions and out comes the TE. Out of nowhere. And spec wise, you'd think it would be easier on my arm.
My guess its the added flex required me to swing harder.

The V7 Blade doesn't play well strung too tight. If using a poly, I would not go higher than 50lbs. If you get a frame with a very high swingweight that also be the culprit.

Have you had tennis elbow in the past or have you been playing a number of years?

PaulC · Feb 27, 2021

Robert F said:
Agree technique can be a factor. But I haven't purposely changed anything recently. Of course things can slide.
What is odd for me is technique seemed the same, played with Blade V5 and V6 for years with 4G strung between 52 and 55 for years. Then go to V7 for 2 sessions and out comes the TE. Out of nowhere. And spec wise, you'd think it would be easier on my arm.
My guess its the added flex required me to swing harder.

Wondering if you have read Chris of TW's ultra low tension thread below?
Low, low tensions. 30lbs feels great. 20lbs pretty good, too

Your objectives now are basically:

1. Not aggravates the TE

2. Retain similar feel and performance of 4G

3. Keep playing with V7 given it is an already an invested "sunk cost"

So why not try:

1. Replace regular 4G 1.30 with 4G SOFT 1.25 for mains (big stiffness drop, while energy return is still high, bouncy and retains similar feel and tension maintenance)

2. Hybrid the 4G Soft main with another ultra soft round thin poly cross (17g Isospeed Cream, or 17L Topspin CyberFlash etc), or another route maybe the uber soft Ashaway MonoGut ZX Pro 17.

3. Try the uber low tension per Chris of TW posting above at or below 30 lbs.

From my personal experience and current usage in 95-98 frames with polys, a 30 lb main and 22 lb cross combination achieve near nylon synthetic feel and performance yet the mains still snap back in place with good tension maintenance (too low to drop much further anyway).

So it should be good for TE, yet retains poly playability.

It may sounds too low to be playable...

I know, cos I was skeptical of Chris' post at first.

Once I tried it, I won't go back to my usual mid-40s poly-syn combo anymore.

Robert F · Feb 27, 2021

tennis347 said:
The V7 Blade doesn't play well strung too tight. If using a poly, I would not go higher than 50lbs. If you get a frame with a very high swingweight that also be the culprit.

Have you had tennis elbow in the past or have you been playing a number of years?

I played in my youth through high school. Gave it up for a couple years. Have been playing pretty regularly since the mid 2000s.
Never had TE in my youth.
About 10 years ago and about 5 years ago, I had really mild TE. I was able to play through it and some exercises/stretching helped the problem vanish pretty quick. I think I went to syn gut briefly and was able to go back to poly pretty fast. Think back then using Alu Power and maybe Proline2. But that was a while back.

I would say with COVID, my tennis volume went up over the spring and summer. There wasn't much else to do so buddies were eager to hit. So it would've made sense if I got it last spring or summer due to volume and possibly hitting in colder conditions later this fall. With clubs being closed I realized hitting in the low 40s Fahrenheit wasn't too bad. But that was months ago and this came on indoors with the switch to to the V7.

Robert F · Feb 27, 2021

PaulC said:
Wondering if you have read Chris of TW's ultra low tension thread below?
Low, low tensions. 30lbs feels great. 20lbs pretty good, too

Your objective now is basically:

1. Not aggravate the TE

2. Retain similar feel and performance of 4G

3. Keep playing with V7 given it is an already an invested "sunk cost"

So why not try:

1. Replace regular 4G 1.30 with 4G SOFT 1.25 for mains (big stiffness drop, while energy return is still high, bouncy and retain similar feel and tension maintenance)

2. Hybrid the 4G Soft main with another ultra soft round thin poly cross (17g Isospeed Cream, or 17L Topspin CyberFlash etc), or another route maybe the uber soft Ashaway MonoGut ZX Pro 17.

3. Try the uber low tension per Chris of TW posting above at or below 30 lbs.

From my personal experience and current usage in 95-98 frames with polys, a 30 lb main and 22 lb cross combination achieve near nylon synthetic feel and performance yet the mains still snap backs in place with good tension maintenance (too low to drop further much anyway).

So it should be good for TE, yet retains poly playability.

It sounds too low to be playable...

I know, cos I was skeptical of Chris' post at first.

Once I tried it, I won't go back to my usual mid-40s poly-syn combo anymore.

Agree with objectives 1 and 2. 3 would be great but not necessary. I can live using my V6 longer if necessary. But will definietly try the V7 in lower tensions after I feel healthy using the V6 with lower tensions and softer strings first.

I think I read that post a long time ago. I think I'll consider you ideas after I try the typical approach and especially if TE returns as I phase polys back in.

mike schiffer · Feb 27, 2021

Good luck with your poly obsession......as soon as I found out the culprit was my too stiff Titanium Head frame and the darn wire called poly was keeping me away from this wonderful game.....they were gone gone gone.......once you experience playing pain free......no twinges,spasms, or aches no meds can blunt....you may see the light.....ask me for details when your ready......in the meantime my best wishes and sympathy.....as Clapton said to Stevie Ray in the midst of his problem....Sometimes you just got to go thru it

Robert F · Feb 27, 2021

Well I've only had this issues for about a month and it is already getting better, so if I'm smart and in ease back in, I'm not sure I should rule out the use of poly forever at this point.
If it comes back then certainly would be a consideration to just stick with good multis, but I don't think I have enough evidence for that considering I played pain free with polys for years.

mike schiffer · Feb 27, 2021

I understand fellow player......I recently demoed a racquet with poly and all my shots dived into the court like magic....We... the walking tennis wounded...... have tried to put that stubborn TE behind us and after going thru self administered BPC155 shots...heat and cold treatments...massage....acupuncture....I wish I would never have picked up that miserable Wilson wide body profile racket that started my troubles.....So I have been to the edge and back and advise caution if things start to snowball lest you start an injury that leads to a chronic condition....Again best of luck

PaulC · Mar 1, 2021

mike schiffer said:
I understand fellow player......I recently demoed a racquet with poly and all my shots dived into the court like magic....We... the walking tennis wounded...... have tried to put that stubborn TE behind us and after going thru self administered BPC155 shots...heat and cold treatments...massage....acupuncture....I wish I would never have picked up that miserable Wilson wide body profile racket that started my troubles.....So I have been to the edge and back and advise caution if things start to snowball lest you start an injury that leads to a chronic condition....Again best of luck

Again, most stringers will tell you the keys: TENSION, TENSION, TENSION

Poly itself is not always the issue, particularly with many 3rd generation co-poly's stiffness rating approaching 170 and below, with energy return rating near 90, which literally can play and feel like nylon synthetic nowadays...

(*** That is: If you string it at least 10-20% below your normally nylon strings tensions per most manufacturer's recommendations. ***)

The poly strings that come with demo frames are almost always WAY too tight at 52+ lbs, IMO.

Robert F · Mar 1, 2021

PaulC said:
Again, most stringers will tell you the keys: TENSION, TENSION, TENSION

Poly itself is not always the issue, particularly with many 3rd generation co-poly's stiffness rating approaching 170 and below, with energy return rating near 90, which literally can play and feel like nylon synthetic nowadays...

(*** That is: If you string it at least 10-20% below your normally nylon strings tensions per most manufacturer's recommendations. ***)

The poly strings that come with demo frames are almost always WAY too tight at 52+ lbs, IMO.

Totally agree tension can be a big cause of TE
But why would TE show up all of a sudden in the exact setup I've used for V5 and V6 of the blade for several years in V7 after 2 sessions? I've been using between 50-55lbs of 4G for quite some time with V5 and V6.

Possible causes:
1.) New Frame--maybe the added flex makes me swing too hard or the SW is way off?
2.) I've been lucky all these years and TE finally caught up to me with a high tension for polys with a stiff string.
3.) Something subtly changed in my technique the last few weeks and finally gave me TE.
4.) Playing too much tennis this past year--feel my training volume grew over the year in 2020 but was highest in the summer/early fall. So again odd it shows up in January 2021.
5.) Playing with old balls. I'm grasping at straws, but I guess with more time on court and more training/practice sessions as opposed to matches, maybe I've had been hitting with more used balls?
6.) Again digging for causes, I think around the time I got TE, I had one training session where we focused on BH volleys.
7.) External cause to Tennis---trying to think if I did anything working out to aggravate it--triceps extensions, more weight room training volume, some static holds with the barbell at extensions and in the rack for pressing.

Yamin · Mar 2, 2021

Robert F said:
Totally agree tension can be a big cause of TE
But why would TE show up all of a sudden in the exact setup I've used for V5 and V6 of the blade for several years in V7 after 2 sessions? I've been using between 50-55lbs of 4G for quite some time with V5 and V6.

Possible causes:
1.) New Frame--maybe the added flex makes me swing too hard or the SW is way off?
2.) I've been lucky all these years and TE finally caught up to me with a high tension for polys with a stiff string.
3.) Something subtly changed in my technique the last few weeks and finally gave me TE.
4.) Playing too much tennis this past year--feel my training volume grew over the year in 2020 but was highest in the summer/early fall. So again odd it shows up in January 2021.
5.) Playing with old balls. I'm grasping at straws, but I guess with more time on court and more training/practice sessions as opposed to matches, maybe I've had been hitting with more used balls?
6.) Again digging for causes, I think around the time I got TE, I had one training session where we focused on BH volleys.
7.) External cause to Tennis---trying to think if I did anything working out to aggravate it--triceps extensions, more weight room training volume, some static holds with the barbell at extensions and in the rack for pressing.

Aside from 5 and 7 all seem legit. People are going a bit too hard on the "you have to use multi." For multi tension you're going to need it to be 55-60 depending on how you play. I'd say just get some hyper g soft and string at your normal tension. You should be fine in a few weeks with regular lifting.

I went from a shoulder/arm that had severe atrophy and no strength with severe tennis elbow playing at 40 lbs of head lynx on the v7 to now using 55 lbs of Hyper G Soft in a few months with only very light pain (I keep increasing tension). Any tension lower than that and I'm good.

Tyler twists and a string that isn't 4g stiff for a while and you'll be back to normal.

Dartagnan64 · Mar 2, 2021

Yamin said:
Aside from 5 and 7 all seem legit. People are going a bit too hard on the "you have to use multi." For multi tension you're going to need it to be 55-60 depending on how you play. I'd say just get some hyper g soft and string at your normal tension. You should be fine in a few weeks with regular lifting.

I went from a shoulder/arm that had severe atrophy and no strength with severe tennis elbow playing at 40 lbs of head lynx on the v7 to now using 55 lbs of Hyper G Soft in a few months with only very light pain (I keep increasing tension). Any tension lower than that and I'm good.

Tyler twists and a string that isn't 4g stiff for a while and you'll be back to normal.

I think everyone is different. I have trouble with poly as soft as Cream still. In a flexible frame with lead.
And I do Tyler Twists and stretching and everything else. Just old and bad tendons.

If you are young you likely can heal faster with less aggressive maneuvers but the safest approach is to a) stop playing entirely or b) play only with the softest setup you can. Then once you improve you can start adding stiffness back in.

There is a reason why NZ has done so well with COVID and the US hasn't. Half measures are often ineffective for many medical conditions.

Yamin · Mar 2, 2021

Dartagnan64 said:
I think everyone is different. I have trouble with poly as soft as Cream still. In a flexible frame with lead.
And I do Tyler Twists and stretching and everything else. Just old and bad tendons.

If you are young you likely can heal faster with less aggressive maneuvers but the safest approach is to a) stop playing entirely or b) play only with the softest setup you can. Then once you improve you can start adding stiffness back in.

There is a reason why NZ has done so well with COVID and the US hasn't. Half measures are often ineffective for many medical conditions.

Yeah for sure but this guy started the thread with saying he has mild pain and he's using one of the harshest strings. In this situation I think the fix should be pretty easy.

Robert F · Mar 3, 2021

After a full 9 days off. I played last night (almost a full 10 days off).
Still had some mild muscle tension/soreness in the muscle area and maybe some mild tendon tenderness around the tendon/bone insertion--prior to play.

Arm just felt some mild tension while hitting. No pain or jarring hits. Even BH volleys were fine, although I wasn't aggressive in hitting them.

Tried to be cognizant of how tight I was holding the racquet. Didn't think I was using a death grip.
The muscle felt used afterwards and today there is maybe a little more soreness then before but nothing with the tendon site.

I used my Blade CV V6 with Gamma TNT2 at 50 pounds. Shots seemed decent overall. My only complaint is cosmetic--the strings move around so much.
Hope to stick with this set up for at least a couple weeks or until the in play soreness goes away. If doing well, next step would be a hybrid trial.

Robert F · Mar 5, 2021

Well, problem with TNT2, lasted me just over 4 hours of play before breaking. So to finish up had to play with my 4G/TNT hybrid. Nothing seemed worse with it.

Elbow holding up pretty well. No jarring pain with any particular shot. Able to serve. Groundies fine. Still a little cautious with BH volleys and slice.
Some soreness throughout the day in the muscle bed but not really at the joint.

Znak · Mar 5, 2021

Robert F · Mar 5, 2021

I do plan to restring with mulit when I get the chance tomorrow.

oiler90 · Mar 14, 2021

Any racquet can contribute to giving a person tennis elbow. The most important factor above all is the frequency your small tendons in your arm are used to tolerating. Too much frequency change x multiple reps = traumatized arm. What can change freq? Grip size, racquet weight, balance, string tension, string type. Tends not to be swing style UNLESS the swing is changed.

Dartagnan64 · Mar 14, 2021

So I recently had a second bout of TE and the same thing that fixed it last time, worked for it this time.

ditched the poly. Strung with multifilament at mid tensions. Racket under 64RA. Reduced playtime to 3 days a week. Wore my counterforce brace. Percussion massage and flex bar exercise. Boom arm feels 95% back to normal in a few weeks.

Just remember that healing is more important than winning.

Luismp8a · Mar 14, 2021

Dartagnan64 said:
So I recently had a second bout of TE and the same thing that fixed it last time, worked for it this time.

ditched the poly. Strung with multifilament at mid tensions. Racket under 64RA. Reduced playtime to 3 days a week. Wore my counterforce brace. Percussion massage and flex bar exercise. Boom arm feels 95% back to normal in a few weeks.

Just remember that healing is more important than winning.

How much is mid tensions?

mike schiffer · Mar 15, 2021

yeah its the effing string poly fiends......it has been slowly inflaming and scarring that elbow tissue and now(all of a sudden)you gots the TE......i got to laff.....but it could be your windup......too much

FIRETennis · Mar 15, 2021

- Replace stock base grip with a leather grip - the Wilson leather one isn't too bad but any other one works too
- Get rid of 4G or any other poly that's hit with more than 10h
- Gut mains / ALU Soft or Element or 4G Soft crosses at like 55/50 - restring only the crosses when they are flat/sharp probably 20h+
- Focus on not being late on the ball and hit out in front
- Get a Theraband Flexbar and do the Tyler Twist exercises

Ryebread · Mar 15, 2021

Instead of going with a leather grip you can try two OG first. Even if one is a very thin, not much overlapping, approach.

Lorenn · Mar 15, 2021

Robert F said:
My only argument with going to the low RA, is that I got the TE on a lower RA racquet. I was using V6 of blade for a few years and V5 before that which I think is a 66/67RA and then went to V7 which is a 62. Same strings and tension and then TE.

You could argue I was a TE waiting to happen and got lucky hitting with 4G for years in the Blades. It just seemed so odd it came about within 2 sessions on the lower RA racquet.
Regardless, I think I better string my V6 with a multi before considering a hybrid.

The other part of the equation you are leaving out is how did you change using a new racquet. Odds are your timing was likely slightly off with the new racquet. If things felt different you might have also increased the tension in your body. My guess is the change in your timing is likely the cause. It was a big change between the V5 and V6...

FIRETennis · Mar 15, 2021

Ryebread said:
Instead of going with a leather grip you can try two OG first. Even if one is a very thin, not much overlapping, approach.

For testing if it helps, that works, but not a permanent solution as this makes it feel like gripping a baguette and lose all feeling of the bevels.

Dartagnan64 · Mar 15, 2021

Luismp8a said:
How much is mid tensions?

52-55 lbs depending on the power level of the frame

Dartagnan64 · Mar 15, 2021

FIRETennis said:
For testing if it helps, that works, but not a permanent solution as his makes it feel like gripping a baguette and lose all feeling of the bevels.

I routinely use 2 overgrips and can feel the bevels. I don’t need blister inducing sharp edges to get my grip right. And I use different grips for FH, BH, serve and volleys.

Robert F · Mar 15, 2021

Lorenn said:
The other part of the equation you are leaving out is how did you change using a new racquet. Odds are your timing was likely slightly off with the new racquet. If things felt different you might have also increased the tension in your body. If I recall correctly the weight and SW was reduced? I think it also went from Head heavy to Head light. Sweet spot also changed. My guess is the change in your timing, combined with trying to increase power(to make up for what was lost) is likely the cause. It was a big change between the V5 and V6.

I had no issues changing from V5 to V6.
V7 11.4oz, SW 328, 4pt HL, 62RA
V6 11.3oz, SW 326, 3pt HL, 66RA

So actually the wt and SW went up if up to manufacturer specs. It's so close, you'd think it wouldn't matter, but it did occur when I made the switch, will all other factors being the same.

Lorenn · Mar 15, 2021

Dartagnan64 said:
I routinely use 2 overgrips and can feel the bevels. I don’t need blister inducing sharp edges to get my grip right. And I use different grips for FH, BH, serve and volleys.

Heck I change the grip forehand to forehand sometimes. I have never had a bevel issue, but everyone is different in the amount of feedback they need.

Lorenn · Mar 15, 2021

Robert F said:
I had no issues changing from V5 to V6.
V7 11.4oz, SW 328, 4pt HL, 62RA
V6 11.3oz, SW 326, 3pt HL, 66RA

So actually the wt and SW went up if up to manufacturer specs. It's so close, you'd think it wouldn't matter, but it did occur when I made the switch, will all other factors being the same.

Changed my original post as I misread. In the end the V6 and V5 have quite a bit of difference. Going from V5 to v6 it would be easy to see why. V6 to V7 still many reasons for issues. The Racquets swing differently when they make changes. So using Ultra stiff stings when making a racquet switch, even if you think they are the same, is always a risky move. Small micro changes in timing cause micro mishits which does extra damage to the body. That combined with you were likely already stressing the area. Eventually age and what we did when we were young catches up with us all. To be fair some racquet designs do seem to be good at stressing elbows. I didn't have an issue with the V7 but I use gentle strings when trying new racquets. Harsh strings plus racquet switch will always be risky. I am odd in that I like to normally switch to a new racquet using either Head Velcocity or Techifibre Triax. Learn the racquet first then find the right strings for it. If I am given a racquet with random poly strings I will start at level zero and very slowly work my way up, until I feel I have a good understanding of the racquet.

Good news is a high percentage of players now fully recover from TE. They might have to change a little, but they normally recover... as long as they are not stubborn about trying the various suggestions and find what works for them.

Dartagnan64 · Mar 15, 2021

Lorenn said:
Heck I change the grip forehand to forehand sometimes. I have never had a bevel issue, but everyone is different in the amount of feedback they need.

Yes that is true. I just don't think you can dogmatically say that 2 overgrips is like a sausage and you lose bevel feel.

Robert F said:
I had no issues changing from V5 to V6.
V7 11.4oz, SW 328, 4pt HL, 62RA
V6 11.3oz, SW 326, 3pt HL, 66RA

So actually the wt and SW went up if up to manufacturer specs. It's so close, you'd think it wouldn't matter, but it did occur when I made the switch, will all other factors being the same.

Still possible that you were swinging slightly differently, swinging more (the new racket syndrome) and were just finally at that point where the tendons were done with 4G. My first case of TE came on in a racket I'd been using for 2 years and a string set up I'd been using for a year and a half. Only thing new was I was taking some serve lessons and practicing a bit more.

My second case of TE did occur with a new racket with my usual string set up. But again came after overpracticing a new serve motion with a lot of mishits. Softened the string bed to full bed multis, reduced the practice to shadow swings only and boom TE is almost healed.

But I will say the common denominators for my TE were always 1) serve practice and 2) polyester in the string bed. Eliminating the overpractice and softening the racket & strings fixed it both times.

FIRETennis · Mar 15, 2021

Dartagnan64 said:
ogmatically say that 2 overgrips is like a sausage and you lose bevel feel

Off topic but it's like asking 10 people if a certain dish is too salty...
Personally, when I tried two Wilson Pro overgrips on top of a regular Wilson basegrip, it felt very much like a sausage without bevel feel, to me.
It's completely different than removing the original regular Wilson basegrip and then adding two overgrips, that works fine in terms of feel but gets the opposite effect of making the racquet more HH.
OP should try and see what works for him.

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