bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Interesting conversation:
Obviously private clubs/academies are representative of privilege. However, the majority of tennis is played outside of these settings. Courts are frequently public and free. Equipment is relatively inexpensive.
Privileged sports would be things like horse sports, boat sports, and golf.
As much as I think they are great discussions and appreciate them, there are SOOOOOOO many ads on YT. It stopped and played an ad several times in the first 10 or minutes alone so I just stopped. Not sure if that is YT's doing or if ET has any control over it, but it really makes it tough to sit through for me.
As for privledge...this.
The concepts of equity and privileged are really being misused by the current cancel culture to feel empowered in someway. I can't figure it out, but profiling seems to be the latest retro movement, unfortunately. There is no divide for access, except when people want to create it in their minds. Sure, we can look in the past of what was a prolific social class sport, but it has long since been at almost every city park.
I enjoy your posts but talking about "current cancel culture" got me puzzled... is this when GOP or Q-Anon, can't remember which, canceled Starbucks, Walmart, the NFL or more recently MLB?
I wonder if his view numbers will dip dramatically after the GSG match is shown. He's got nothing new to discuss it seems.
Obviously private clubs/academies are representative of privilege. However, the majority of tennis is played outside of these settings. Courts are frequently public and free. Equipment is relatively inexpensive.
Privileged sports would be things like horse sports, boat sports, and golf.
Yea that is definitely a fair point. Some zip codes don't have well-maintained public courts... and those zip codes tend to be in low income areas.I think "relatively inexpensive" depends on your income and where you live. If you live in a wealthy zip code, you will find public tennis courts every where within the county, and that the public tennis courts are very well maintained and clean. If you live a in less desirable zip code, you will find less access to public tennis courts, and the tennis courts often have cracks and poorly maintained. it has to do with funding and property taxes.
that's what I'm saying. There's nothing new for him to coach and really interest me after the GSG match. The doubles matches get less than 50% views than his singles matches and are less than even this teaching vids.Nah. His numbers would dip if he continued on the coaching lines. Seriously, go to YT and search any technique of concept in tennis and you will find a few dozen people taking the EXACT same information, repackaging it with their own names and little twists, and selling it. So a new channel with the new twist on old stuff peaks quick, but dies within a few years. Iam is smart to incorporate something that is more continuous and breathing with live match and edited match play. You never know exactly what is going to happen. I mean, GSG will peak numbers and there will be some lag, but people are always looking to watch sports, even high level rec, which seems even more relatable and attainable than pro sports for many.
I recall listening to a Racquet Podcast with Patrick McEnroe where he said tennis in the US has become sport for the privileged ("a lot of parents with Rolex's").Obviously private clubs/academies are representative of privilege. However, the majority of tennis is played outside of these settings. Courts are frequently public and free. Equipment is relatively inexpensive.
Privileged sports would be things like horse sports, boat sports, and golf.
that's what I'm saying. There's nothing new for him to coach and really interest me after the GSG match. The doubles matches get less than 50% views than his singles matches and are less than even this teaching vids.
I think that just speaks to Pat McEnroe's social circlesI recall listening to a Racquet Podcast with Patrick McEnroe where he said tennis in the US has become sport for the privileged ("a lot of parents with Rolex's").
At the time he was speaking on his experience as the General Manager of USTA player development. He also actively supports his brothers tennis project which provides access to under privileged kids in NYC.I think that just speaks to Pat McEnroe's social circles
Factoring all the equipment including rackets, string ( I do string my own rackets), balls and sneakers it probably costs me about a $1.50 an hour to play ( I don’t play much in winter so don’t have much indoor court costs.)Tennis is a global sport, and almost everywhere in the world it is relatively expensive. More expensive than tennis are the motor sports, horses and golf.
I'd argue that "playing tennis" and "player development" are two very different things.At the time he was speaking on his experience as the General Manager of USTA player development. He also actively supports his brothers tennis project which provides access to under privileged kids in NYC.
Factoring all the equipment including rackets, string ( I do string my own rackets), balls and sneakers it probably costs me about a $1.50 an hour to play ( I don’t play much in winter so don’t have much indoor court costs.)
I was providing info for me personally. I’m also buying premium equipment. Anyone can buy a stringer for a one time cost 300 bucks and learn to string. At least in US most people can play pretty cheaply recreationally. I can’t speak to other countries. Also to be an elite player generally requires privilege I will acknowledge although there are exceptions.That is a false "calculation", as most people who play tennis don't string their own racquets, don't play on public courts and don't stop in the winter (if they play seriously). That also doesn't include your medical bills, your transport costs related to your tennis, your bills for tennis lessons, your bills for your "other" tennis equipment (you don't string your racquets with your bare hands, do you) etc?
In short, you are lying to yourself what your actual costs are, and you are misrepresenting what it costs you to play tennis, and even then you are probably in the very slim group from the tennis population.
I was providing info for me personally. I’m also buying premium equipment. Anyone can buy a stringer for a one time cost 300 bucks and learn to string. At least in US most people can play pretty cheaply recreationally. I can’t speak to other countries. Also to be an elite player requires privilege I will acknowledge.
It’s one of a few sports that people can play most of their lives.Reading most of the comments, I'd just say that for a cheap sport, it sure looks like a lot of rich people are into it.
I was speaking generally for the country I live in. You’re right I didn’t approach the question from a global perspective which I don’t know much about.Yes, it became clear from your post that you are trying to justify your own calculation, but, unless one is a complete cheapskate, and cuts down considerably on the actual full experience from playing tennis as a hobby, it is not "cheap" by any means, and that in countries which maintain a cheap public infrastructure. That is not the case almost anywhere outside of the USA.
Reading most of the comments, I'd just say that for a cheap sport, it sure looks like a lot of rich people are into it.
Well if it’s a lifetime sport, and older people have more savings from working longer, isn’t that just simple math? If you’re comparing rec tennis players to rec basketball players, you’re basically saying that 45 year olds have more savings than 35 year olds. If the older demographic didn’t come out on top then there would be a big problem since that would mean that working longer provides a negative income.
Mind you, it's Mark Sansait channel...As much as I think they are great discussions and appreciate them, there are SOOOOOOO many ads on YT. It stopped and played an ad several times in the first 10 or minutes alone so I just stopped. Not sure if that is YT's doing or if ET has any control over it, but it really makes it tough to sit through for me.
Mind you, it's Mark Sansait channel...
Yeah seems they agreed to upload those chat videos through Mark.Too funny, I had not even noticed that. I saw the ET folks and just assumed, even though it says Mark at the beginning.
Yes, the reason you become rich is by saving. Also can you post a picture of the gold watch you got from working at Sears for 50 years?
I agree with that. I also think it depends on where you live. There are a lot of public courts out west and on the east coast. However, in the south most of the public courts are not well maintained and you don't have access to affordable instruction.I'd argue that "playing tennis" and "player development" are two very different things.
- Development of a top junior athlete is an expensive and exclusive thing for all sports.
- Recreational play is expensive and exclusive for some sports, but not too bad for others.
I agree with that. I also think it depends on where you live. There are a lot of public courts out west and on the east coast. However, in the south most of the public courts are not well maintained and you don't have access to affordable instruction.
What is the average price of an hour of tennis lesson in the USA?
No. It’s closer to the cost of a golf lesson ($60-$100 per hour). Football, Baseball and Basketball is all subsidized and or taught by volunteer coaches (parents). For elite players, they are on club teams and it is similar to kids in junior tennis developmental programs.About the same as a baseball, football, or basketball lesson.
Demand is a big issue.This is more a socialized issue than anything about privileged or equity. I agree that access to courts in different zip codes might be an issue, but that is because recreational folks and city managers are catering to demand, not because of exclusion.
There is also the idea of return and carrying capacity, where a large swath of land might support a single court and up to 4 people, a basketball court could be full court and host 10 people at the same time. Same concrete cost, better RIO for participation, especially if they can organize and charge for leagues. The cost for access of a racquet and balls might be a little higher than the cost of a basketball, but I don't think that is keeping anyone away. Expand that to a baseball or football field, especially in terms of maint cost, and you might be closer to the same number of participants able to use it within the same amount of land. Don't know, but sounds about right.
As far as transportation and such, the NBA, NFL, and MLB are chock full of players who walked uphill both ways for miles to go to schools or facilities where these fields were. That was certainly not a barrier. If there was demand for courts, they would be close enough for everyone to participate.
The inequality is, I have to pay most of the cost to participate in a sport, where so many other cities only fund the popular one's. Talk about being marginalized.
No. It’s closer to the cost of a golf lesson ($60-$100 per hour). Football, Baseball and Basketball is all subsidized and or taught by volunteer coaches (parents). For elite players, they are on club teams and it is similar to kids in junior tennis developmental programs.
As much as I think they are great discussions and appreciate them, there are SOOOOOOO many ads on YT. It stopped and played an ad several times in the first 10 or minutes alone so I just stopped. Not sure if that is YT's doing or if ET has any control over it, but it really makes it tough to sit through for me.
As for privledge...this.
The concepts of equity and privileged are really being misused by the current cancel culture to feel empowered in someway. I can't figure it out, but profiling seems to be the latest retro movement, unfortunately. There is no divide for access, except when people want to create it in their minds. Sure, we can look in the past of what was a prolific social class sport, but it has long since been at almost every city park.
About the same as a baseball, football, or basketball lesson.
No. It’s closer to the cost of a golf lesson ($60-$100 per hour). Football, Baseball and Basketball is all subsidized and or taught by volunteer coaches (parents). For elite players, they are on club teams and it is similar to kids in junior tennis developmental programs.
Team sports have a lot more cost efficiencies when it comes to coaching large groups, and their popularity makes them more accessibleAbout the same as a baseball, football, or basketball lesson.
Team sports have a lot more cost efficiencies when it comes to coaching large groups, and their popularity makes them more accessible
I don’t seriously get how people think tennis isn’t a privileged sport, individual sports are expensive from the start and tennis is very technical which means that if you want to be any good you need a lot of intensive one on one coaching
There is a reason why the ATP and WTA are full of upper and middle class kids
I don’t seriously get how people think tennis isn’t a privileged sport, individual sports are expensive from the start and tennis is very technical which means that if you want to be any good you need a lot of intensive one on one coaching
Natural selection automatically steered some groups towards it and some groups away from it.
Distance running?Which sport isn't technical at higher levels?
Distance running?