Marat Safin- How Many Slams?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 771911
  • Start date

How many Slams for Safin?

  • Two- he overachieved as it was.

    Votes: 6 16.7%

  • Three- AO '02 should have been his.

    Votes: 8 22.2%

  • Four

    Votes: 3 8.3%

  • Five

    Votes: 7 19.4%

  • Six-eight

    Votes: 7 19.4%

  • eight-ten

    Votes: 1 2.8%

  • Ten- fifteen

    Votes: 1 2.8%

  • Fifteen- twenty

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Twenty one

    Votes: 2 5.6%

  • Sky is the limit

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • Total voters
    36
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
So, if Safin had really committed, how many slams would he have won?
Personally, I think his 2 slams and No.1 ranking show he committed himself just fine as it was. But, I know he probably had a couple more in him (AO '02, cough).
So, what do you think?
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Well, Safin was unlucky that injury struck him in 2005 just when he was finally fully committing to tennis in late 2004.

Hard to say how many slams as Federer still remained too good at the slams and Nadal also arrived at RG.

His best chances would have certainly been on HC more than on grass and clay. I'd say he wins 2006 AO since Federer was not in great form there. Has an outside shot at the 2005 USO too. I give him a couple more slams at least.
 
O

offtheline

New User
If he was hyper committed, mentally focused, etc., does that mean we lose out on the ATG racquet smashes? His unique box guests? The swagger? Yeah, the BH was legendary and when he was on he was so fun to watch. But, the other things also made Safin who he was as a player. So, I say four for fearing of losing out on too much of that if he went too much higher.
 
vandre

vandre

Hall of Fame
he was really close to winning the 02 aussie open (he won the first set against johannson, the second and third were decided by one break and the fourth went to a breaker). he had a bit of daylight at the 02 french (guga lost in the fourth round to the player who won that year [costa]). safin lost in straights to jcf in the semis that year. jcf wasn't exactly an "easy mark" on clay but i think that was his best shot at winning a title at roland garros. it would have been interesting to see what he would have done in 03 if he wouldn't have been injured.
 
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NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
He lost 2003 and post clay season 2005 due to injuries. He probably could have achieved more in 01-02 but he was still very young so not finding his head straight away isn't that strange. I think he could have easily been a borderline ATG like Courier or Murray with 4'ish slams.
 
D

Deleted member 779124

Guest
I think 4-5 slams was possible but nothing to suggest he could reach double figures of something.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
ElisRF said:
I think 4-5 slams was possible but nothing to suggest he could reach double figures of something.
Click to expand...
His best chances would have been on HC anyway. Clay and grass weren't his best surfaces despite reaching slam semis on both surfaces.

However, without injuries, he could have had more 2008-like Wimb runs even if he wouldn't have won the title.
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
mike danny said:
His best chances would have been on HC anyway. Clay and grass weren't his best surfaces despite reaching slam semis on both surfaces.

However, without injuries, he could have had more 2008-like Wimb runs even if he wouldn't have won the title.
Click to expand...

he could have certainly won the french and wimbledon if not for his mentality, especially french. safin with his game and the mental fortitude and drive of a hewitt and if he had stayed injury free (a lot of big IFs) could have certainly won the french atleast once, same with wimbledon, especially on the slow grass. he certainly had the game to be in the big 3's league
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
arvind13 said:
he could have certainly won the french and wimbledon if not for his mentality, especially french. safin with his game and the mental fortitude and drive of a hewitt and if he had stayed injury free (a lot of big IFs) could have certainly won the french atleast once, same with wimbledon, especially on the slow grass. he certainly had the game to be in the big 3's league
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No he was not going to win RG, point me which RG he was going to win assuming he playing fit
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
And to be clear I don't see him winning any Wimbledon, if he can't cashed 2002 Wimbledon for deep run, he is not winning any
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
NAS said:
No he was not going to win RG, point me which RG he was going to win assuming he playing fit
Click to expand...

Probably makes multiple SF's at both (Wimbledon less sure), but he isn't toppling Nadal or Federer at their pet slams. I think Ferrero has a decisive edge at the FO too, perhaps in 2004 he could grab the trophy? But it's worth saying, that despite the 2004 final being a serious choking exhibition the build up featured a lot of tough players in-form - so no guarantees.
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
NatF said:
Probably makes multiple SF's at both (Wimbledon less sure), but he isn't toppling Nadal or Federer at their pet slams. I think Ferrero has a decisive edge at the FO too, perhaps in 2004 he could grab the trophy? But it's worth saying, that despite the 2004 final being a serious choking exhibition the build up featured a lot of tough players in-form - so no guarantees.
Click to expand...
He is not defeating Ferreo and Costa or even Corrtrza apart from final Gaudio and Coria both played great
 
ChrisG

ChrisG

Professional
No way he win the FO, too many grinding spaniards and not enough Prestige mid to smash, his options would have been USO and Autralia to get more GS.
I wish the outcome would be different as he's one my childhood idol (Lendl in the 80's- Agassi in the 90's -Safin in the 00's), but let's be honest and enjoy what he gave us as it is.
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
If I recall correctly, Roland Garros was the slam Safin most wanted to win.
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
NAS said:
No he was not going to win RG, point me which RG he was going to win assuming he playing fit
Click to expand...
fit and focused not just fit. . 2002. 2003. safin himself admitted in later interviews that 2002 was a missed opportunity and that he played very ****ty against ferrero and could have played better
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
arvind13 said:
fit and focused not just fit. . 2002. 2003. safin himself admitted in later interviews that 2002 was a missed opportunity and that he played very ****ty against ferrero and could have played better
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He is not beating Costa and ferrero back to back in 2002 ,neither in 2003 I see him beating Costa, JCF, Verkerk, Coria to win QF, Semi and Final.
And in 2003 if he is coming from bottom draw then his draw become tougher from fourth round onwards .
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
NAS said:
He is not beating Costa and ferrero back to back in 2002 ,neither in 2003 I see him beating Costa, JCF, Verkerk, Coria to win QF, Semi and Final.
And in 2003 if he is coming from bottom draw then his draw become tougher from fourth round onwards .
Click to expand...

he is definitely capable of beating ferrero and costa back to back. this is a guy who who when playing to his potential beat prime federer at AO and a pretty good sampras at US Open. 2005 federer at AO is tougher than 2002 costa at French. and clay isn't grass. grass bothered him because as a tall guy it was difficult for him to deal with the erratic bounces. clay is a surface he grew up playing on.
 
arvind13

arvind13

Professional
arvind13 said:
he is definitely capable of beating ferrero and costa back to back. this is a guy who who when playing to his potential beat prime federer at AO and a pretty good sampras at US Open. 2005 federer at AO is tougher than 2002 costa at French. and clay isn't grass. grass bothered him because as a tall guy it was difficult for him to deal with the erratic bounces. clay is a surface he grew up playing on.
Click to expand...

and furthermore he beat agassi and kuerten back to back at the 1998 french open. kuerten the defending champion at RG and agassi the following year's champion. he was only 18. so yes, OFCOURSE he can beat ferrero and costa back to back at RG if he's playing his best tennis.
 
T

tonylg

Legend
Safin ran into peak Federer and was hopeless on the medium paced grass.

Born 10 years later with Federer in his 30s and grass no longer a proper surface, he would have cleaned up .. at least 10 hard court slams and maybe half a dozen Wimbledons too.
 
BGod

BGod

G.O.A.T.
Well he also dealt with injuries. I mean how do so many ignore or comb over this?

I voted 6-8 but lean on that 6.

The following are likely wins if he gathers himself more
2002 AO
2002 FO
2001 WMB

Following are Slams he had an opportunity but could have lost anyway
2001 USO
2004 AO
2004 FO
2005 FO

Anything beyond those is speculating in a world where he doesn't get injured or hampered. That 05 French gets lost in the shuffle but very realistic and him getting Nadal in the Final would have been something.
 
Sunny014

Sunny014

Legend
Adding to his 2 slams

2001 USO, 2002 AO, 2002 FO and maybe the 2004 AO, Federer was too good in those years but maybe this one too he could have stolen.

So 5-6 slams, putting him in Becker-Wilander-Edberg range.

He never had a shot at French after 03 and I believe even wimbledon was beyond his paygrade once Federer took over. Had he beaten Goran in 01 then he would have had a good shot at beating Rafter+Henman later on....

So thats just it.
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
arvind13 said:
he is definitely capable of beating ferrero and costa back to back. this is a guy who who when playing to his potential beat prime federer at AO and a pretty good sampras at US Open. 2005 federer at AO is tougher than 2002 costa at French. and clay isn't grass. grass bothered him because as a tall guy it was difficult for him to deal with the erratic bounces. clay is a surface he grew up playing on.
Click to expand...
I may have taken you seriously but then I realize that you are blind fan of Safin, only blind fans of Safin and Roddick give them those slam even when they in really lost that slam.
I remember around 2009 us open I was talking to my friend who was fan of Andy and he started talking about 2004 us open how if real Andy( don't know what that mean) showed in qf then he easily would have defeated Hewitt in semi and there was a chance he may have beaten Fed as he was leading a set and a break in Wimbledon.
I didn't even speak anything after hearing that type of hypothetical.
There is one thing Fed fans thinking about Rome 2006 because he had a MP but giving Safin RG 2002 or Wimbledon 2001 is just extreme like my friend example
 
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CyBorg

CyBorg

Legend
Safin should have won the 2002 Australian. And that's about it.

He had real injuries and had no control of his mentality.
 
M

MissileBackHand99

Semi-Pro
I’ve always personally thought that Safin was the most talented male player of his generation—above Federer, Nadal, Murray, Roddick, Djokovic, etc. Safin, unfortunately, didn’t have the innate/organic love for tennis that the others mentioned had (and he had said so himself—that he was more drawn to TEAM sports like hockey and soccer). He had the movement/agility of a Panther, was fantastic off of both wings, and had a serve that could be very hard to return. I say he wins 8-10 Slams if he had the love for the game that others had (injuries notwithstanding)
 
Drob

Drob

Hall of Fame
NAS said:
No he was not going to win RG, point me which RG he was going to win assuming he playing fit
Click to expand...


I get it, and I agree. However, a fit and focussed Marat Safin would certainly have been to RG SF several times and would have copped 2-4 clay M 1000. And, getting to the SF, there is always the chance of winning and going to the RG finals - especially if you have the skills of Safin.

Remember he went 24-4 in the clay-court season of 2000, winning Barcelona. (And, at the 2003 Barcelona final, he was leading two sets to one against Moya when he retired). Not considered a strong clay-court player, he nevertheless beat Guga Kuerten at the French Open in 1998, just missed beating Guga at the 2000 German Open final (7-6 in the fifth), which was then a Super Nine, made the French semifinals once, and bested Juan Carlos Ferrero on the dirt. In fact, he was 4-5 overall versus Ferrero on clay. You look at his clay-court record through 2004, and it shows some promise. But it was on one of those European courts in April 2005 when Marat's seemingly-revived career came to an end, although that would not be clear for another year or so.

Does anyone know exactly when and where the knee injury occurred?
 
Drob

Drob

Hall of Fame
BGod said:
Well he also dealt with injuries. I mean how do so many ignore or comb over this?

I voted 6-8 but lean on that 6.

The following are likely wins if he gathers himself more
2002 AO
2002 FO
2001 WMB

Following are Slams he had an opportunity but could have lost anyway
2001 USO
2004 AO
2004 FO
2005 FO

Anything beyond those is speculating in a world where he doesn't get injured or hampered. That 05 French gets lost in the shuffle but very realistic and him getting Nadal in the Final would have been something.
Click to expand...

I think the initial question by @Devtennis01 encompassed both ideas: which should he have won before 2005, and which would a focussed Safin have been likely to win in 2005 and the years beyond. Perhaps he can clarify before I vote.

To me, what is gone is gone. Any missed chances pre-April 2005 are not might-have-beens, they're blown chances in Marat's case. But given what he showed the world in January 2005, there are some possible might-have-beens all the way through the 2008 season, and even 2009 AO. After that, age would make it very unlikely to win another Slam.

So, I see the question quite differently. I see it as "how many Slams is Safin likely to have won from May 2005 - onward" to add to his two.
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Devtennis01 said:
So, if Safin had really committed, how many slams would he have won?
Personally, I think his 2 slams and No.1 ranking show he committed himself just fine as it was. But, I know he probably had a couple more in him (AO '02, cough).
So, what do you think?
Click to expand...
His problem was that he excelled on one surface, hard rubber/cement, on which he won his two majors.

No grass major, no clay major.

Which surface is responsible for leg/knee injuries? The same surface he favoured, hard rubber/cement.
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
Drob said:
I get it, and I agree. However, a fit and focussed Marat Safin would certainly have been to RG SF several times and would have copped 2-4 clay M 1000. And, getting to the SF, there is always the chance of winning and going to the RG finals - especially if you have the skills of Safin.

Remember he went 24-4 in the clay-court season of 2000, winning Barcelona. (And, at the 2003 Barcelona final, he was leading two sets to one against Moya when he retired). Not considered a strong clay-court player, he nevertheless beat Guga Kuerten at the French Open in 1998, just missed beating Guga at the 2000 German Open final (7-6 in the fifth), which was then a Super Nine, made the French semifinals once, and bested Juan Carlos Ferrero on the dirt. In fact, he was 4-5 overall versus Ferrero on clay. You look at his clay-court record through 2004, and it shows some promise. But it was on one of those European courts in April 2005 when Marat's seemingly-revived career came to an end, although that would not be clear for another year or so.

Does anyone know exactly when and where the knee injury occurred?
Click to expand...
I just think it is insulting to other players to give him a slam when he is loosing in semi or quarter final, I can understand AO 2002 final hypothesis but saying he is winning Wimbledon 2001, RG 2002, 2003 2000 is damn insulting to other players .
 
Drob

Drob

Hall of Fame
NAS said:
I just think it is insulting to other players to give him a slam when he is loosing in semi or quarter final, I can understand AO 2002 final hypothesis but saying he is winning Wimbledon 2001, RG 2002, 2003 2000 is damn insulting to other players .
Click to expand...

Sure. i thought I said what is done is done, but that what might have been but for the devastating knee injury is worth considering. Perhaps my RG ideas were somewhat fanciful. Just that he was no pushover on clay.
 
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U

urban

Legend
I remember some Roland Garros in the late 1990s, when the early rounds were really dominated by Safin. He was always in the centre of attention. Didn't he beat Agassi and Guga once back to back. Once he looked like a future winner, but did run into a super strong Magnus Norman in the quarters, and lost a close 4 setter. Best match of the RG tournament that year. He and Flipper looked like the new Robocop generation of tennis, their Bercy final was a masterpiece. Safin was big, strong but also fast and mobile, had all the shots, big serve, court opening forehand, great backhand, and soft hands in the forecourt. The soft life and the women took too much out of him.
 
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boredone3456

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
without injuries I think he would have probably had a slightly different level of focus and maybe done more. He certainly had the ability. But he was also hit or miss even when he wasn't injured so...I would say maybe 1 or 2 more majors because I certainly think he was good enough. But I don't think it would have been an astronomically higher count.
 
U

urban

Legend
Safin was very popular in France due to his first name. Marat was a famous Jacobine politician, and was killed by a Girondist woman, Charlotte Corday. In Brussels is a famous picture Death of Marat by David.
 
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NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
Drob said:
Sure. i thought I said what is done is done, but that what might have been but for the devastating knee injury is worth considering. Perhaps my RG ideas were somewhat fanciful. Just that he was no pushover on clay.
Click to expand...
I never said he was pushover, I was around 15 when he won us open beating Sampras, I liked him really but when people come with 8 - 9 slam margin for Safin that is where I have a problem.
At best I see him winning around 5
 
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