Is Djokovic deserving of pity?

ffw2

ffw2

Hall of Fame
S

Slicehand

Guest
Hes not the bad guy, hes just not so ejoyable to watch, and that shows us that not always the perfect technique wins, people dont like that, also, he is not very charismatic, but hes dominating tennis and we should accept that, what boris cant ask to tje people is that they like him, we can respect his game and his wins, but a lot of people apreciate other things in tennis too, so to answer the question, no hedoesnt deserve pitty, just respect for what hes done
 
WildRevolver

WildRevolver

Hall of Fame
He's not deserving of our pity because he's deserving of our praise. He's a tremendous athlete. GOAT Winner. But he's also not the bad guy and Rafa and Roger are not the good guys. People make decisions on who they root for on a myriad of factors, many of which are intangible. Novak, for whatever reason, has never checked as many boxes in that category as the other two.
 
F

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
The article sums up the problem really. You can't tell the sporting public who they "ought" to like - it just backfires

I don't remember Djoko being "unpopular" back in 2011 or subsequently. It was only really around 2015 that his family and team started nagging at us about how much we ought to like him.

I do think he's been ill served by the social media age - his father's various unclassy comments and the behaviour of a small section of his fanbase hasn't helped, however unfair that seems.

Now he's had a heartbreaking loss maybe he will get more popular. Presumably he'd sooner have had the win.
 
Diablo XP

Diablo XP

Rookie
Fedforever said:
The article sums up the problem really. You can't tell the sporting public who they "ought" to like - it just backfires

I don't remember Djoko being "unpopular" back in 2011 or subsequently. It was only really around 2015 that his family and team started nagging at us about how much we ought to like him.

I do think he's been ill served by the social media age - his father's various unclassy comments and the behaviour of a small section of his fanbase hasn't helped, however unfair that seems.

Now he's had a heartbreaking loss maybe he will get more popular. Presumably he'd sooner have had the win.
Click to expand...

Reasoned, and thoughtful response here that really sums it up. I don't obsessively follow pro tennis like some here, but this is an accurate depiction of how my wife and I feel about him. We were both playing and watching in 2011 and did not get the weird "vibe" about Djoko that is obviously present now for us. Its just super easy to root against him.
Ten years or so ago he was easier to watch and be excited about. Now there is something off about him. I don't follow him closely enough to define exactly what it is, but man is it there.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
WildRevolver said:
He's not deserving of our pity because he's deserving of our praise. He's a tremendous athlete. GOAT Winner. But he's also not the bad guy and Rafa and Roger are not the good guys. People make decisions on who they root for on a myriad of factors, many of which are intangible. Novak, for whatever reason, has never checked as many boxes in that category as the other two.
Click to expand...
I think the main reason is his playstyle, it is very effective just not so spectacular as roger and rafa
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
How can anybody pity a guy who has won as much as he has and who is the undisputed number #1 player in the world?

So he couldn't quite pull off the CYGS but he has still won 4 Slams in a row which is almost the same. Few players have ever achieved that.

He worries too much about being loved. He should settle for fear and respect like other past tennis greats have done.
 
ffw2

ffw2

Hall of Fame
Mainad said:
How can anybody pity a guy who has won as much as he has and who is the undisputed number #1 player in the world?

So he couldn't quite pull off the CYGS but he has still won 4 Slams in a row which is almost the same. Few players have ever achieved that.

He worries too much about being loved. He should settle for fear and respect like other past tennis greats have done.
Click to expand...
Becker's angling for something, I suppose.

Probably not a coaching gig at this point.
 
The Fedfather

The Fedfather

Legend
Desrving of more compassion. Djokovic is a very affectionate person who got little affection throughout his career. Breaking down because of crowd support, his "I didn't expect anything" was sad. The racket smashing, screaming, smirking. That's the person Novak became partly due to the negativity he faced from early on and then after breaking the Fedal duopoly.

He is the most emotionally dependent on being liked out of the Big 3 and it's tough luck for him to end up being the antagonist.
 
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ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
ffw2 said:
Boris Becker thinks so.

"It is not acceptable that Novak is always the bad guy and Roger and Nadal are always the good guys - that is unfair," opines the massive-elbowed German.

www.eurosport.com

'It's not acceptable' - Novak Djokovic gets 'unfair treatment' compared to Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, says Becker - Eurosport

Novak Djokovic saw his dream of a 21st major title and the calendar Grand Slam fade away as Daniil Medvedev produced a stunning performance to win the US Open.
www.eurosport.com www.eurosport.com
Click to expand...


He is reaping what he has sown.

And it is not just his antics, but his whole camp and family create all the drama and dislike. It isn't just a few things, but a career of it, including and up to the racquet smashing, yelling around, and even mishaps like throat conking a line judge, but doing so in an angry moment. His appeal just is not there, so no...I don't have pity for who he is. Fact is (unfortunately, I suppose), he is the third wheel to one of the greatest rivalries of tennis between two gracious, respected, and mannered champions ever, so he will never pierce that veil or move out of that far reaching shadow.

As far as crying and the pressure, he was sure quick to comment around the hot topic at the Olympic on "pressure being a privilege", and was quite smug in the timing of it with Biles and Osaka. He got a big head and too much confidence, then folded worse than either Biles or Osaka, threw tantrums, and it was pretty much the same at the USO. Still not seeing anything to pity or feeling sorry for.

His actions through his career have not been acceptable for those used to higher caliber champsions, so fair is fair I guess.
 
V

Vagary

New User
I used to think if he didn't give it attention ever it would eventually pass and people would warm up to him naturally, but given how his one-way rivalry with the crowd is perpetuated in the media and among tennis commentators even potentially keeping his mouth shut did not and will not help, especially after the pathetic misunderstanding in the USO final.

At this point he should just be as abrasive as possible, call everyone out and gloat about his accomplishments, diss Fedal supporters and remind them how many potential matches he stopped. Shatter the loudness record for sheer volume of booing on a stadium. End this current discourse. Aspiring towards nobility has only made him grovel and earn him embarrassment.
 
P

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
It is a bit unfair because Djokovic is not that different from Nadal. Both on their own are quite boring to watch. But Nadal came first and latched onto the Federer train, who is by far the best player to watch tennis in the history of the game. The evidence is that Federer Djokovic matches are also extremely entertaining. Yes Djokodal matches are good too but that's only a consequence of them having established themselves as top players with their rivalry with Federer.
 
Jokervich

Jokervich

Hall of Fame
ffw2 said:
Boris Becker thinks so.

"It is not acceptable that Novak is always the bad guy and Roger and Nadal are always the good guys - that is unfair," opines the massive-elbowed German.

www.eurosport.com

'It's not acceptable' - Novak Djokovic gets 'unfair treatment' compared to Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, says Becker - Eurosport

Novak Djokovic saw his dream of a 21st major title and the calendar Grand Slam fade away as Daniil Medvedev produced a stunning performance to win the US Open.
www.eurosport.com www.eurosport.com
Click to expand...
I always say the same - I don't think anyone should give pity to multi-millionaire athletes who live comfortable lives, when there are people with genuine problems out there.

It's unfortunate he is not as liked as Roger and Rafa, but there are far worse problems you could have lol. He was clearly immensely liked anyway, as you could see with the crowd in the final.
 
ffw2

ffw2

Hall of Fame
Jokervich said:
I always say the same - I don't think anyone should give pity to multi-millionaire athletes who live comfortable lives, when there are people with genuine problems out there.

It's unfortunate he is not as liked as Roger and Rafa, but there are far worse problems you could have lol. He was clearly immensely liked anyway, as you could see with the crowd in the final.
Click to expand...
Yeah.

It's not really a sob story. Nine times out of 10 you get what you give. Even if it's completely phony. :censored:

Boris Becker is not moved by tears. But he is moved by the attention that they bring him.
 
JustBob

JustBob

Hall of Fame
ffw2 said:
Boris Becker thinks so.

"It is not acceptable that Novak is always the bad guy and Roger and Nadal are always the good guys - that is unfair," opines the massive-elbowed German.

www.eurosport.com

'It's not acceptable' - Novak Djokovic gets 'unfair treatment' compared to Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, says Becker - Eurosport

Novak Djokovic saw his dream of a 21st major title and the calendar Grand Slam fade away as Daniil Medvedev produced a stunning performance to win the US Open.
www.eurosport.com www.eurosport.com
Click to expand...

Roger and Rafa do not spend a significant amount of time saying and doing stupid things. Novak's "why don't people like me" wounds are entirely self inflicted.
 
weakera

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Mainad said:
How can anybody pity a guy who has won as much as he has and who is the undisputed number #1 player in the world?

So he couldn't quite pull off the CYGS but he has still won 4 Slams in a row which is almost the same. Few players have ever achieved that.

He worries too much about being loved. He should settle for fear and respect like other past tennis greats have done.
Click to expand...

He can't help it. He wants the love that Nadal and Federer get so badly. It's quite sad.
 
Gazelle

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
It's just his playstyle. Every shot seems exactly measured in required speed, spin and placement. It's incredibly effective, but leaves little room for improvisation, flair and entertainment.

His technique is usually great, but that gets overshadowed by his style.

I've often called Djok boring, but I remember I used to watch many of his matches from 2008-2011.
After that it just became too bland for me.
 
mtommer

mtommer

Hall of Fame
weakera said:
He can't help it. He wants the love that Nadal and Federer get so badly. It's quite sad.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and there's just an air of fakeness about him. It's emotions displayed that don't seem to match the circumstance appropriately. It's extreme emotional response, also at weird times. Perfect example of this is when Djokovic nearly got back that drop shot from Medvedev and started to slam his racquet only to stop. Really? You go to throw a racquet then? On that type of point? I mean, really? Where was the build up to the cracking point? All the easy misses prior, yet that's when you're "soooooo frustrated" and choose to show it? My visceral reaction when I first saw that was, "Seriously? I don't buy it. Knock off the showmanship and get back to playing."

Why has Nadal "broken through" despite similar play to Djokovic? Nadal's love of the sport, respect of prior players, determination to win, and so on all come through and they just don't from Djokovic.
 
weakera

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
mtommer said:
Yeah, and there's just an air of fakeness about him. It's emotions displayed that don't seem to match the circumstance appropriately. It's extreme emotional response, also at weird times. Perfect example of this is when Djokovic nearly got back that drop shot from Medvedev and started to slam his racquet only to stop. Really? You go to throw a racquet then? On that type of point? I mean, really? Where was the build up to the cracking point? All the easy misses prior, yet that's when you're "soooooo frustrated" and choose to show it? My visceral reaction when I first saw that was, "Seriously? I don't buy it. Knock off the showmanship and get back to playing."

Why has Nadal "broken through" despite similar play to Djokovic? Nadal's love of the sport, respect of prior players, determination to win, and so on all come through and they just don't from Djokovic.
Click to expand...


Yes. People can detect fakeness and Djokovic is so easy to see through. Always has been.
 
R

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
Remember when Nole broke through and he marketed himself as the funny guy on tour? Nole has always been someone that wants to be liked, but that’s not what fans respond to. They respond to the entertainment product on the court and his gamestyle for most of his career doesn’t have enough flair.

To be honest, Nole is probably the only one of the big 3 that I would want to hang out with in person. Federer is too obsessed with fashion and high society and im not in to fishing or PlayStation so that rules out nadal. But the gamestyle matters when it comes to being a fan
 
ElChivoEspañol

ElChivoEspañol

Hall of Fame
Gazelle said:
It's just his playstyle. Every shot seems exactly measured in required speed, spin and placement. It's incredibly effective, but leaves little room for improvisation, flair and entertainment.

His technique is usually great, but that gets overshadowed by his style.

I've often called Djok boring, but I remember I used to watch many of his matches from 2008-2011.
After that it just became too bland for me.
Click to expand...

this.

Incredibly effective, but boring style of play, also my personal opinion is that his ground strokes and movement in general are so disjointed, almost Medvedev like, it’s unpleasant to watch. He doesn’t have ANY flair.

You can win everything, but at the end of the day sports are entertaining activities, and if people aren’t entertained they will not rate you as high.
 
Autodidactic player

Autodidactic player

Professional
ChaelAZ said:
He is reaping what he has sown.

And it is not just his antics, but his whole camp and family create all the drama and dislike. It isn't just a few things, but a career of it, including and up to the racquet smashing, yelling around, and even mishaps like throat conking a line judge, but doing so in an angry moment. His appeal just is not there, so no...I don't have pity for who he is. Fact is (unfortunately, I suppose), he is the third wheel to one of the greatest rivalries of tennis between two gracious, respected, and mannered champions ever, so he will never pierce that veil or move out of that far reaching shadow.

As far as crying and the pressure, he was sure quick to comment around the hot topic at the Olympic on "pressure being a privilege", and was quite smug in the timing of it with Biles and Osaka. He got a big head and too much confidence, then folded worse than either Biles or Osaka, threw tantrums, and it was pretty much the same at the USO. Still not seeing anything to pity or feeling sorry for.

His actions through his career have not been acceptable for those used to higher caliber champsions, so fair is fair I guess.
Click to expand...

Last year, but still sums up Djokovic:

Novak Djokovic's lockdown antics make him public enemy number one at US Open

"So, in a nutshell, only COVID-19 itself has done as much to make itself as unpopular as Djokovic during the pandemic; just the latest chapter in a career that is becoming something of a cautionary tale.

Call it the Parable of the Third Wheel, the story of the man who so badly craves the kind of public affection showered upon his beloved contemporaries, Federer and Nadal, that he constantly finds ways to besmirch his own reputation".
 
Poisoned Slice

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
Take a cookie, Boris. I promise that when you're done eating it, you will be able to see your reflection in your shoes. Goran approved.
giphy.gif
 
ffw2

ffw2

Hall of Fame
RaulRamirez said:
Who said anything about pity? Not Becker, not Novak, just the OP and many who replied, with an educated guess that most didn't read the article.
Click to expand...
Ah, loyal reader #2 appears promptly on the scene.

Good to see you. :)

Are you familiar with the concept of subtext? Perhaps you're acquainted with implicit meaning?

No?

All good. You've still got the broken record bit to fall back on. :sneaky:
 
King No1e

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Fedforever said:
The article sums up the problem really. You can't tell the sporting public who they "ought" to like - it just backfires

I don't remember Djoko being "unpopular" back in 2011 or subsequently. It was only really around 2015 that his family and team started nagging at us about how much we ought to like him.

I do think he's been ill served by the social media age - his father's various unclassy comments and the behaviour of a small section of his fanbase hasn't helped, however unfair that seems.

Now he's had a heartbreaking loss maybe he will get more popular. Presumably he'd sooner have had the win.
Click to expand...
You're right, it was around 2015. A few things changed between the young Djokovic (who came within a few votes of knocking Federer off for FanFav in 2011 IIRC) and the later version:
- Started playing more conservative "boring" tennis. Young Nole was much more of a pure aggressive baseliner from the Agassi/Safin school. Over time he became more serve-reliant and content with waiting for errors.
- Started beating up on Federer consistently. Before, it was more of an even matchup and Djokovic would always need to play his heart out for his wins. Then Fed got older and Djokovic got more confident against him.
- Toned down his off court personality to become more PR-friendly. The public got to see less of the unfiltered off-court Djoker.

There were still times after that when he was just as revered as the other 2, though. Especially during his 2018 comeback. I think W18 was truly a high point for him and everyone involved.
 
B

BayAreaBooster

Rookie
ryushen21 said:
Nope. He's a reckless, arrogant, self-aggrandizing, p****. He almost threw his racquet into a ball boy in the USO final and had a racquet smashing tantrum. I feel no pity for him at all.
Click to expand...
Exactly. In terms of on court and off court demeanor, Fedal and their families are far classier. A person's character is known by how they react during duress. Of late I have noticed Djoker throws a tantrum (breaking racket, throwing into stands etc.) when pushed into a corner. Given this, it is understandable he will not earn his fan love no matter whatever cringey stunt he pulls off after wins.

That said, Novak has done enough in my opinion to be ranked the greatest among the Big 3.
 
ollinger

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Very much like Mantle and Maris. Mantle was more loved by the fans as he had gotten there first and had to deal with chronic injuries, seemed a little more fun loving. But everyone who knew them well would tell you Maris was a terrific guy, at least as well liked as Mantle by his teammates, maybe moreso.
 
Legend of Borg

Legend of Borg

G.O.A.T.
There's few thing more annoying in the tennis world atm than Becker's constant simping and brown-nosing when it comes to Djoker.

Did Djoker pay off all of his debt and now he's obliged to be his hype man? I get that he was his coach but this is something else.
 
ffw2

ffw2

Hall of Fame
Legend of Borg said:
There's few thing more annoying in the tennis world atm than Becker's constant simping and brown-nosing when it comes to Djoker.

Did Djoker pay off all of his debt and now he's obliged to be his hype man? I get that he was his coach but this is something else.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

It's all a bit much. Can't really imagine what he's after here.

Didn't Djokovic fire him? Does he need a reference?
 
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