Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
I think people want to see these young guys beating the likes of Nadal and Djokovic in the majors before believing any hype.
Alcaraz Hype
- Thread starter James P
- Start date
This guy is just really easy to cheer for. No prima Donna attitude and unnecessary drama.
RaulRamirez
Legend
Have "we" lost the capacity to just enjoy the game, and a very exciting young talent who has great court sense and competitive drive? Just enjoy watching him - what's not to like about Alcaraz?
"Well, he's no Rafa.". Yeah, he must suck if he's not arguably the best teen player of all-time who became (arguably) the best player of all-time.
Yes, we can all point to guys (and girls/women) who we predicted great things for, but they never fulfilled what we saw as their potential. So what...just enjoy what he brings to the court.
"Well, he's no Rafa.". Yeah, he must suck if he's not arguably the best teen player of all-time who became (arguably) the best player of all-time.
Yes, we can all point to guys (and girls/women) who we predicted great things for, but they never fulfilled what we saw as their potential. So what...just enjoy what he brings to the court.
onefineday
Hall of Fame
The hype is getting more justified in my eyes. If he makes the RG SF, I am in.
onefineday
Hall of Fame
Is it hard for you that other people might not enjoy what you do, or might see things in Alcaraz that you don't? I get you enjoy him but I don't think we need a hive mind re what we do and don't enjoy in tennis.
RaulRamirez
Legend
I'm not arguing against that, nor would I ever use the term or want a "hive mind". Different preferences and opinions are great. It's just the prevailing mentality here and elsewhere of one having to be the greatest or an ATG or they stink.
I have no idea if he'll win 21 majors, 5 or none. Right now, I'm enjoying watching him play. That's all I'm suggesting.
Minutes after Emma Raducanu wins 3 qualies and 7 main draw matches without dropping a set to win the US Open - and does so with almost every positive personal attribute imaginable (intelligence, poise, grace) people are debating on the one hand, whether she will be the "goat" and conversely, whether she'll ever win anything again. She was 18...just enjoy the moment.
You don't have to like Alcaraz or Raducanu, but why the need among so many to overly hype or tear down.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
There was a distinct lack of enthusiasm for Rafa because everyone was so enamoured with Federer they just didn't want anyone spoiling his party. They hung on to the Federer is GOAT forever even though he could hardly buy a victory against Rafa.
Agree. Plus, there were quite a lot of doping rumours surrounding nadal in the early days. The whole Spanish sports doctor network is very cloudy and they didn't even have anti-doping laws until recent years. With his physique and style, he raised a lot of eyebrows, but as I've always said, doping doesn't help you hit great shots, just helps you hit your shots for longer.
He wasn't winning because he outlasted guys.
kevaninho
Hall of Fame
The biggest difference, for me, is that Alcaraz isnt having to topple anyone substantial in his runs.
The worlds best player isnt even playing in Miami, and he came up short against Nadal in IW.
Young Nadal was denied his Miami title by facing the best player in the world.
Its great for the kid if he wins ( and im hoping he does ), but if Nadals AO title is being scrutinized for Novak not playing, then every tournament is the same.
Is there one thing that you can concede where another player (or for that matter any other male) is better than Rafa?
onefineday
Hall of Fame
That's great you enjoy him. Your suggestion that we all enjoy him is of course, just that, a suggestion. I think about 80% are with you on it.
RaulRamirez
Legend
Wow: I guess reading comprehension is just not your thing.
Have a good day.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Yep agree, not on par with Nadal obviously unless he does something hugely special - in any case hopefully he does win tomorrow.
Also Nadal's 2005 season itself would have been good enough to be World No. 1 in a lot of other years (had it not been for someone else being so dominant)
TopspintheTerrible
Hall of Fame
You don’t have to like him or be a fan but he is good for the sport.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
5, 6, 7, whatever. Still a generation in tennis. Djokovic and Thiem are from separate generations for example.
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
Let’s not go overboard now
onefineday
Hall of Fame
Ok. Nothing much to say about such a factual statement.
onefineday
Hall of Fame
No, I can read. You can't bear to hear it, that's all.
Enjoy what you enjoy, and perhaps keep your 'suggestions' to yourself. I think everyone here is capable of enjoying things as they please.
Merci and farewell.
ElChivoEspañol
Hall of Fame
The tennis tour and media desperate need someone to take over the huge vacuum that the big 3 will leave behind. They will hype theflipping lights out of the first guy that shows a shadow of what the big 3 can do.
Enter Alcarazz
No objective tennis player would ever dare to say Alcaraz is better than Nadal at the same age of 18.
It’s all about $$$$.
Aslan T
Rookie
Strawman? Who's saying that???
For sure he's better than Djokovic, but not better than Nadal.
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
But there are different ways to talk about a generation.
For example, Tsitsipas did not play in the first NextGen Finals, but he's of that generation.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
How high do we rate:
@Zoid @helterskelter and whoever else wants to chime in
- Alcatraz' speed?
- Alcatraz' ability to turn defense into offense?
- Alcatraz' shot tolerance?
- Alcatraz' return of serve?
@Zoid @helterskelter and whoever else wants to chime in
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
2006 baggy was pretty good tbh although not very consistent
ibbi
G.O.A.T.
This is beautiful
(could do without the stupid music though)
(could do without the stupid music though)helterskelter
G.O.A.T.
I am on holiday and so on my phone so briefly: He is promising but has a long way to go to reach Djokovic or Nadal levels. Very good core groundstroke game. Some weaknesses in serve, return, shot tolerance, and over hitting.
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
This is beautiful
This is entirely too cute
Rattie
Legend
Awww, lovely moment. Carlos is clearly delighted to have him back in time for the final later.This is beautiful
VashTheStampede
Professional
I think it’s hard to surpass the hype of teen Nadal and Gasquet. I think they turned pro at 15 and were touted as prodigies. Gasquet was on the cover of a tennis magazine at age 9.
However, I think Alcaraz’s hype is comparable to that of Djokovic and Murray in that they were all around 18/19 when they started grabbing people’s attention.
-Alcaraz speed? Faster than Novak, maybe Rafa speed. Hard to compare. I'd say pure line speed Rafa and Alcaraz are better than Djokovic, but Djokovic's flexibility and end-range control makes them all really close. Gun to the head on speed rank I go: Peak Rafa, Alcaraz, Peak Djokovic.
- Ability to return defense to offense? This is where Rafa and Novak shine. Alcaraz is behind in this category for me. Rafa and Novak at end-range are the best of all-time. Alcaraz is good, great even, but Djokodal are freaks in this category. Novak's sliding backhand is the BOAT, Rafa's running forehand is probably the BOAT. They weren't too shabby on their weaker sides either.
- Shot tolerance? Peak Djokodal still way ahead. Alcaraz is always looking to attack. A young Novak was similar actually, way more trigger-happy on the forehand. For now, he's behind in shot tolerance.
- Return-of-serve. He's doing really well, but still about 2% less on 1st and 2nd return points won, but he is really high up there.
But there are categories where I think Alcaraz is ahead:
- volleys. Unbelievable how good this kid's hands are. Rafa's court awareness and ability to close the net is better, but for pure hands I put Alcaraz first.
- Slice. Looks technically so sound and comfortably slicing, which again, I'm just blown away but considering he is 18 with a 2HBH...Just doesn't make sense.
- Drop shot. Hands down this is almost his trademark these days. The forehand dropper he tried 46 times in the sunshine double, and won 41 so far.
- lob. The guy's lob has been off the charts recently. Especially off the backhand.
He's still a fair way off:
- Peak Djoker/Rafa serve.
- Peak Djoker return.
- Peak Rafa weight of shot.
- Peak Djokodal consistency and ability to just not miss point after point. AKA 2012 AO final.
There are so many positive signs with this kid though. He's hitting his first-serve in the mid 130's...I still think he needs to become a spot-server like Fed with his height, if he wants to really get his serve points won % higher. He has such a good +1 ability off both wings that he just needs to hit his spots and take advantage of the first ball as fed did so well (probably the BOAT at serve +1).
Comes forward a lot and it's exciting to wonder how good his net game can get in the next 5+ years.
Drop shots, lobs, sneaking, slicing. usually having this many shots in the toolbelt delays development because young players pick the wrong shot at the wrong time, but he seems to read the game so well and play the right shot so often. We will see how this develops.
This is really cute haha. He seems so real and authentic... for me he reminds me a lot young Nadal, but I like him already.This is beautiful
I am not gonna lie, a lose today would be really disappointing for me as a new fan
dapchai
Legend
I think Carlos will win Miami today, but in order to justify the hype train it's better to wait at least until the end of the clay season.
Comparing him to Rafa at the same age is impossible at the moment: on the one hand Rafa had an advantage of one month younger when the respective tournaments took place, on the other hand Rafa had to meet Roger who was #1 and winning left and right in 2005 while Carlos is only going to play Casper who has never made it to the top 5 and is obviously a couple of levels below Roger.
Comparing him to Rafa at the same age is impossible at the moment: on the one hand Rafa had an advantage of one month younger when the respective tournaments took place, on the other hand Rafa had to meet Roger who was #1 and winning left and right in 2005 while Carlos is only going to play Casper who has never made it to the top 5 and is obviously a couple of levels below Roger.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
It is not hype if it is true. If people are saying he will win 7-8 Slams, it is not hype in my opinion. Anything more than that is hype until he wins 5 Slams in the next five years.
Well, this is not 2004-07 anymore
ghostofMecir
Hall of Fame
Good stuff as per usual, @Zoid
One thing that Alcaraz has that’s very similar to Djoko is the stillness of his head when hitting off balance BHs with power. He technique on that BH is something else, and it looks like it cannot be broken down. Off balance, full run, pretty big cuts, and that head stays absolutely still. His little light steps make it look like he’s floating like Federer. And then there’s his point reset demeanor—he never seems to get down, plays every point, comes back after disappointing points like they never happened much like Rafito does.
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Sampras-Bruguera 1993
Legend
The hype train is much bigger cause the ATP knows their screwed once the big 3 retire. Lots of hype but until he develops a serve I don’t see what the hype is. Dude couldn’t even beat a broke back way past prime 36 years Nadal at IW. I wouldn’t be hyping up a dude that couldn’t manage that
chrischris
G.O.A.T.
The hype is hyper accurate. Alcaraz has game
tomatitotarifa
Rookie
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
This dude will win 28 majors. you heard it here first. you can tell me i am right later in time
onefineday
Hall of Fame
I'll buy in to it fully when he beats Nadal and Djokovic on his way to Rome 1000.
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
IIRC Zverev just had 20 years old when he won Rome in 2017, which is also very young and he deserved his hype had the time.
Zverev was decent but he is no Alcaraz
Alcaraz has top 10 wins at majors while Zverev still does not have one after probably 6 years on tour
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Yep, almost everyone thought that it was just a matter of time before he started dominating.
ghostofMecir
Hall of Fame
Very few players ever (yes, ever) have played 20 consecutive matches at the level Alcaraz just has. He’s 18 going on 19 and has not been soundly beaten yet while he’s given out plenty of whippings. It’s pretty much unheard of. And it’s because he doesn’t have any real weaknesses other than a serve that doesn’t have good placement, but at least produces power.
Something that amazed me this Miami Open was his winning % on 1st serve DESPITE not having a lot of aces/unreturneds/one-two combos. This is something I’ve only see from Rafito himself even if Alcaraz does hit a bigger 1st serve. Once he learns to place the serve better, get some more free points…it looks like nightmare territory for most opponents.
75% 78%, 79%, 74%, 78%, 83% of first serve points won with not many easy points and on a slow hard court. That looks like peak Rafito behavior.
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