Who is a better player off clay Agassi or Nadal?
- Thread starter RS
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RS
Bionic Poster
Agassi is better at YEC and has 6 more masters but Nadal has a extra slam.
This kinda reminds of the Djokovic vs Nadal who is greater debate.
RS
Bionic Poster
Overall off clay?
jl809
Hall of Fame
Nadal is clear on grass (2 titles, 3 finals, 2 semis vs 1 title, 1 final, 2 semis), they split the hard court slams, and Agassi is clear on indoor hard (1 title and 3 Fs vs 2 Fs). Agassi possibly has a better M1000 resumé too but Nadal has superior overall outdoor win %
basically anyone not voting “by a bit” or “even” is being cheeky
basically anyone not voting “by a bit” or “even” is being cheeky
RS
Bionic Poster
You set the record straight on 04-06 vs 14-16 as well but now the comments have been blocked
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Here are all the big titles that you can win outside of clay.
AO, IW, Miami, Wimbledon, Canada, Cincinnati, USO, Madrid Indoors, Paris Indoors, WTF - Agassi won all of them, Nadal is lacking Miami, Paris Indoors and WTF.
It should not be hard to see who is the better player off clay, Agassi has shown he can win anywhere outside of clay, fast and slow outdoor hard, fast and slow indoor hard, and fast grass. (Though Nadal didn't have a chance to play on fast grass to show he can do it also.)
Nadal will be seen as greater, as his slam count is higher overall, but off clay record as a whole across the season is lacking. - He is 0-8 in finals from Miami-Paris Indoors-WTF combined.
AO, IW, Miami, Wimbledon, Canada, Cincinnati, USO, Madrid Indoors, Paris Indoors, WTF - Agassi won all of them, Nadal is lacking Miami, Paris Indoors and WTF.
It should not be hard to see who is the better player off clay, Agassi has shown he can win anywhere outside of clay, fast and slow outdoor hard, fast and slow indoor hard, and fast grass. (Though Nadal didn't have a chance to play on fast grass to show he can do it also.)
Nadal will be seen as greater, as his slam count is higher overall, but off clay record as a whole across the season is lacking. - He is 0-8 in finals from Miami-Paris Indoors-WTF combined.
aldeayeah
G.O.A.T.
The indoor big title tally is Agassi 4 (1 masters cup, 2 Paris, 1 Madrid) vs Nadal 1 (1 Madrid)
Rafa has 5 additional finals (1 shanghai, 2 paris and 2 WTF) and Agassi 2 (TMC)
the gulf is not so big actually, although Andre clearly leads particularly if you include smaller events that Rafa kinda neglected
Rafa has 5 additional finals (1 shanghai, 2 paris and 2 WTF) and Agassi 2 (TMC)
the gulf is not so big actually, although Andre clearly leads particularly if you include smaller events that Rafa kinda neglected
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Nadal. Double the Uso is all you need to know as in Agassis day the USO was the main HC event which meant the field was stronger there which is why he only won twice.
Nadal also has double the wimbledons.
Anyone saying different is just bitter towards Nadal. Nadals resume off clay is ATG level and he has the same Majors as Agassis whole career number and more than Mcenroe. Add clay into the mix, well it is why Nadal is undisputed GOAT albeit Federer I think is very close.
Indoors tennis is utterly irrelevant anyway. Nobody cares one bit about the indoor season in truth.
RS
Bionic Poster
You have to consider AO as well.
RS
Bionic Poster
It is what it is.
RS
Bionic Poster
Agassi USO 01 or Nadal USO 13?
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
Ban OP
RS
Bionic Poster
What’s wrong with this?
RS
Bionic Poster
If Nadal gets one more slam will you put him ahead?
InsideOut900
Legend
Hitman
Bionic Poster
I already think Nadal is greater of the two outside of clay now, he has the slam count. Slams trump everything.
For versatility, Nadal needs to win big Indoors, that is where Agassi shines, he can win anywhere outside of clay. Which is why he is the better player off clay, he has won all the big titles that are on offer.
TimHenmanATG
Hall of Fame
I like Andre, but the answer to this question is clearly Nadal - and it's not even close.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Agassi
better on HC outdoors. agassi clearly higher peak and prime at AO. USO is close.
better on HC indoors. again, agassi with higher peak and prime indoors.
grass - Nadal had his luck with consistent higher bouncing grass. Granted, his prime/peak on 2000s grass is better than agassi's on older grass.
better on HC outdoors. agassi clearly higher peak and prime at AO. USO is close.
better on HC indoors. again, agassi with higher peak and prime indoors.
grass - Nadal had his luck with consistent higher bouncing grass. Granted, his prime/peak on 2000s grass is better than agassi's on older grass.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Yeah, would certainly give the nod to Nadal if it was only about who is better on grass.
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Agassi.
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Think it is close at the least.
Martin J
Hall of Fame
GOAT avatar.
TimHenmanATG
Hall of Fame
Come on.
If you could somehow teleport the late 2000s/early 2010s version of Rafa onto a hard-court in the 90s, against Andre, then it's not really going to be particularly close.
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Wasn’t thinking H2H. Anyway even so hard disagree considering the trouble Agassi gave great players like Roger and Pete even in non clay matches.
RS
Bionic Poster
Who do you think had tougher competition overall off clay?
NonP
Legend
Indoor is indeed the TB. No advantage for Bull offsets let alone overrides Dre's under the roof.
Anyhoo:
How can anything be the GOAT when it changes hands every other week?
Mine is tops and eternal, like everything related to moi.
All things considered it's the original SMB, but for sheer GOATness/replayability I'd go with SM3/World/64 (take your pick) or SFII. Throw in Zelda 1/Link/Ocarina/Breath (speaking as a non-diehard), FFVI/VII (though I still prefer V), DQV and Chrono (unrivaled storytelling and plain perfection, respectively) and you've got the top 10 (or 13) covered more or less.
This underrating of Dre on HC is downright comical when you consider not only those competitive matches vs. the HC BOATs but also the fact that he trails only the AO GOAT in # of dominant runs (65% of GW or higher, rounded) Down Under:
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Anyhoo:
How can anything be the GOAT when it changes hands every other week?
Mine is tops and eternal, like everything related to moi.
All things considered it's the original SMB, but for sheer GOATness/replayability I'd go with SM3/World/64 (take your pick) or SFII. Throw in Zelda 1/Link/Ocarina/Breath (speaking as a non-diehard), FFVI/VII (though I still prefer V), DQV and Chrono (unrivaled storytelling and plain perfection, respectively) and you've got the top 10 (or 13) covered more or less.
This underrating of Dre on HC is downright comical when you consider not only those competitive matches vs. the HC BOATs but also the fact that he trails only the AO GOAT in # of dominant runs (65% of GW or higher, rounded) Down Under:
Djokovic at AO vs Federer at Wim?
Please, the Wawrinka match in 2014 was the de facto SF. It was a QF match tho, I understand de-factos but it doesn't say it on the stat sheets
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
YEC is the key, also coke habit and Tomic like father ruined Agassi's real potential
Both relied on poly and big frames vs 85 and 90 sq inch top players and slo era conditions
Young Nadal could do nothing on hard court Slams and even on slowed down grass lost some beauties.
He just beat some qualifiers before getting killed by Roddick which Agassi owned properly even peak ARod was no match
Y El Aynaoui beat Nadal in straight sets in 2003 AO and also his now coach Moya in 4
Then in 2004 Blake who was inferior to Agassi
2005
Young Alcaraz would showing better level on hard courts earlier on than above at 18
Both relied on poly and big frames vs 85 and 90 sq inch top players and slo era conditions
Young Nadal could do nothing on hard court Slams and even on slowed down grass lost some beauties.
He just beat some qualifiers before getting killed by Roddick which Agassi owned properly even peak ARod was no match
| 2004 | ATP Masters 1000 Cincinnati OH, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | SF | Andre Agassi | 75 672 762 |
| 2003 | London / Queen's Club Great Britain | Outdoor Grass | SF | Andy Roddick | 61 675 766 |
| 2003 | Houston TX, U.S.A. | Outdoor Clay | F | Andre Agassi | 36 63 64 |
| 2002 | San Jose CA, U.S.A. | Indoor Hard | SF | Andre Agassi | 63 61 |
| 2000 | Washington DC, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | QF | Andre Agassi | 64 64 |
| 2000 | ATP Masters 1000 Miami FL, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | R64 | Andre Agassi | 62 63 |
Y El Aynaoui beat Nadal in straight sets in 2003 AO and also his now coach Moya in 4
Then in 2004 Blake who was inferior to Agassi
2005
| Q | I Heuberger | 0 | 3 | 6 | 6 | 3 | |||||||||||||
| R Nadal | 6 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 6 | R Nadal | 0 | 3 | 4 | ||||||||||
| A Roddick | 6 | 6 | 6 |
Young Alcaraz would showing better level on hard courts earlier on than above at 18
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
This is way off. Andre won 5 titles on indoor carpet alone. He won 46 HC titles in his career.
Adv. Edberg
Legend
Agassi most likely seeing that it was a tougher era back in the 90s.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Of course you're entitled to your lousy opinion...
But that's absolute horse **** that Agassi clearly had a higher peak at the AO... no way was his 95AO (his best AO) clearly higher level than Nadal of AO09 no matter how salty of a Fed fan you are....
Just proving you're nothing but a dishonest propagandist...
The higher bouncing grass you speak of is what Federer won all of his WImbledon titles on... so yeah, he must've had his luck on it too then, so clearly Petros better than Fed on grass yeah? Or will you backpedal on that too?
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
More rubbish that's out of context...
How many matches has Rafa played on HC v Federer and Djokovic compared to Andre v Sampras?
Rafa had >20 top 10 wins in 2013... how many seasons has Federer had with that many... ZERO
RS
Bionic Poster
More depth which will be considered tougher by some but what about Djokovic and Fed?
RS
Bionic Poster
Be civil man. I have had a few threads axed recently.
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