Feeling Blue After Appeal

spiderman123 · Nov 27, 2007

Last year was my first in USTA league and I was 3.0 self-rated.

I finished with 9-3 and was not expecting to be bumped up especially after a first round tournament loss (won the Consolation Draw though).

When I was bumped up, I was happy but after some discussion my captain suggested that I should appeal and it would be granted automatically if I was between 3.01 and 3.05.

For reasons known to none, I clicked those buttons (maybe I wanted to prove to myself that I was not a borderline case) and to my surprise, I was a 3.0 within seconds.

Now I have a 3.0 "A" against my name and I don't like it. True that I have not yet "mastered" 3.0 as I would have liked but it would have been nice to have a 3.5 label.

Sincere advice to anyone who is considering an appeal, think about this. If you are in a doubt, don't appeal. If you feel even a little bit happy about getting bumped up, don't appeal. You will play with better players and have earned this promotion. If you do get blown, you will come down next year but you have a new challenge to maintain this hard-earned level. If you do decide to quit playing tennis for whatever reason, you will retire as a higher rated player. I now am going into this season with added pressure.

I have learnt my lesson. I will never press that appeal button ever again.

bleach · Nov 27, 2007

That's true, but the other side of it is the feeling of not really being at the level you got bumped to unless your appeal was denied.

I know that sounds weird, but it's true. Here everyone appeals a bump up. A couple of years ago, I was bumped to 4.0 and did not appeal. I felt that I really didn't belong at 4.0. I was bumped back down for the next early start. From now on, I always appeal a bump. Not that I get upset about losing all the time, it's more of a feeling of belonging!

ten10 · Nov 27, 2007

I am very sorry about your "appealer's remorse" as it were. It was good for me to hear your story. My 4.0 teams would like to see me appeal my 4.5 bump. My Saturday team cap even says I'll get killed at 4.5 (no offense, she added). My season was soooo slam-dunk I though about the appeal just to prove I wasn't within that "appealing" range. I actually stayed awake last night thinking about e-mailing the DNTPR Section Coordinator to ask how close I am. I'd LOVE to be able to tell the 4.0 teams that an appeal by me would be denied.

In the light of day, and with the encouragement and wise words from folks on this site, I no longer need to even think about it. I'm 4.5, and I'm up for the challenge. Somehow I doubt that takes the sting out of it for you. BUT a friend of mine appealed her 3.5 bump, regretted it, appealed her appeal and lost. So she played another season and got bumped right back up again.

Do well in the spring, you'll get back to where you belong. You've learned a valuable lesson, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

gjoc · Nov 27, 2007

The other issue with appeals-down is that you’ll then be playing at a half-point below-level, which makes it far more likely that you’ll then receive three strikes and be disqualified during the next season.

Remember that it’s the same computer that already says you’re a 3.5 that will be deciding whether or not your wins at 3.0 should be considered strikes towards disqualification.

todot62 · Nov 27, 2007

To me, there is no downside to appeals. If you want to play up, play up. The real reason to appeal happens for mixed, combos and tournaments. Every combo team will want you. You also become popular for the new Tri-level league. If you're a good 3.0 you can play 7.0 mixed with a 4.0 woman or in tournaments, you can play 7.0 doubles with a 4.0 partner. Not to mention 6.0 mixed and 6.0 doubles. All of this is fun. During mixed weekends I played on two teams and would play as many as seven matches over two days. Now that's fun! You can also play both 3.0 and 3.5 league, allowing you to play twice as much tennis every week. How can that be bad?

Tod

SunDog · Nov 27, 2007

You can get your 3.5 rating back. Just contact your state coordinator and tell them that you made a mistake. It is a simple process. If you really have the appeal remorse, 3.5 is only a phone call away.

One of my friends had his rating appealed by his captain - against his will. The State coordinator is going to reinstate his higher rating.

10sfreak · Nov 27, 2007

I'm with todot62 on this one. I've recently been bumped up to 3.5 and have lost my appeal (not that I had much appeal to begin with! LOL!). You can always play up, but you can't play down. In trying to keep my 6.0 mixed team together, I'm having to try to find a 2.5 girl to play with...it's turning out a lot harder than I thought it would be. Seems everybody automatically gets bumped up to 3.0...Oh well, back to getting crushed during the adult league season...:-(

JavierLW · Nov 27, 2007

10sfreak said:
I'm with todot62 on this one. I've recently been bumped up to 3.5 and have lost my appeal (not that I had much appeal to begin with! LOL!). You can always play up, but you can't play down. In trying to keep my 6.0 mixed team together, I'm having to try to find a 2.5 girl to play with...it's turning out a lot harder than I thought it would be. Seems everybody automatically gets bumped up to 3.0...Oh well, back to getting crushed during the adult league season...:-(

But yet it's okay for players in their own level that didnt get moved up to get crushed by a bunch of appealees and self rates....

Im mixed by the appeal process. I think that it's stupid that the league has a whole system of rating people up, only to counter it by giving you a magical button that lets you go back down.

They claim that .05 is such a small little tiny margin, but reality is 80% of everyone probally wins their appeals. The system just doesnt move players up that high.

However I think this is the league's problem. If players want to appeal, as long as that system is in place they should be able to.

In my area, we used to always frown upon everyone that appeals, but when you are a 2nd or 3rd place team and everyone of your competitors appealed all their players, I think you almost have to do it. Because ultimately it's a league and you want your team to do well (or at the least not totally stink), and part of that is finding players that can compete with the competition.

Cindysphinx · Nov 27, 2007

Appeal? Are you kidding me?

You will have to pry my 3.5 rating from my cold, dead fingers.

Cruzer · Nov 28, 2007

todot62 said:
To me, there is no downside to appeals. If you want to play up, play up. The real reason to appeal happens for mixed, combos and tournaments. Every combo team will want you. You also become popular for the new Tri-level league. If you're a good 3.0 you can play 7.0 mixed with a 4.0 woman or in tournaments, you can play 7.0 doubles with a 4.0 partner. Not to mention 6.0 mixed and 6.0 doubles. All of this is fun. During mixed weekends I played on two teams and would play as many as seven matches over two days. Now that's fun! You can also play both 3.0 and 3.5 league, allowing you to play twice as much tennis every week. How can that be bad?

Tod

Somewhat valid point. The only catch might be if because you have a 3.0 rating some team captains at the next level might not play you or only use you as a last resort. Of course astute captains will realize that USTA ratings and actual playing ability are often not in sync and will play you as much as anyone else. You need to evaluate the team landscape and decide if having a 3.0 rating is going to have any effect on your ability to get to play in matches or not.

Cindysphinx · Nov 28, 2007

Appealing down can limit who you can partner with in places that don't allow more than 1 point difference between partners.

If I appeal down from 3.5, I can't play 8.0 mixed with The Superhero, who is now a 4.5.

He, uh, hasn't asked me or anything, but a gal can dream, can't she?

burosky · Nov 28, 2007

Cindysphinx said:
Appeal? Are you kidding me?

You will have to pry my 3.5 rating from my cold, dead fingers.

Kudos for the attitude! This is how people should be looking at getting bumped up. It is a sign of improvement. Just think about it. You are not the only person who got bumped up. Therefore, it doesn't automatically mean you are going to get creamed. Besides there are also a few who are on the verge of getting bumped down for one reason or another.

I am not in favor of the appeal process either. Take the "promotion" for what it's worth (personal improvement) and let the chips fall where they may. The NTRP system has it's flaws but don't let that take anything away from what you have achieved. Even if you don't feel you belong, there is a reason why you got bumped up. Focus on those reasons (strengths) and work on your doubts (weaknesses). Before you know it, you will feel you belong.

If you were in school, would you prefer to stay at the same grade after the school year or would you expect to be in the next grade up. If you do advance to the next grade up, would you rather go back to the lower grade? Just trying to make an analogy.

Cindysphinx · Nov 28, 2007

burosky said:
You are not the only person who got bumped up. Therefore, it doesn't automatically mean you are going to get creamed. Besides there are also a few who are on the verge of getting bumped down for one reason or another.

I'll add that there can be a heck of a confidence boost from getting bumped up, if you choose to look at it as a promotion. Last night, I played 6.5 combo. My partner and I just got bumped to 3.5, so we were a 7.0 team. Our opponents, we thought, were a 3.0 and a 3.5. Unbeknown to us, the 3.0 was bumped up so they were 7.0 also.

We creamed them, 6-2, 6-1. It was our best performance to date against tough opponents. Gotta think part of it was confidence, no?

BiGGieStuFF · Nov 28, 2007

Stay with the appeal. When teams start trying to recruit you it can boost your confidence

.

burosky · Nov 28, 2007

Cindysphinx said:
I'll add that there can be a heck of a confidence boost from getting bumped up, if you choose to look at it as a promotion. Last night, I played 6.5 combo. My partner and I just got bumped to 3.5, so we were a 7.0 team. Our opponents, we thought, were a 3.0 and a 3.5. Unbeknown to us, the 3.0 was bumped up so they were 7.0 also.

We creamed them, 6-2, 6-1. It was our best performance to date against tough opponents. Gotta think part of it was confidence, no?

Partly, probably but don't be shy to admit that you are improving. Nothing wrong with reaping the fruits of your labor. Think of this as validation.

todot62 · Nov 28, 2007

Cruzer said:
Somewhat valid point. The only catch might be if because you have a 3.0 rating some team captains at the next level might not play you or only use you as a last resort. Of course astute captains will realize that USTA ratings and actual playing ability are often not in sync and will play you as much as anyone else. You need to evaluate the team landscape and decide if having a 3.0 rating is going to have any effect on your ability to get to play in matches or not.

Great point and the very reason I captain my own teams. In the fall I had two 3.5 teams and one 3.0. The problem now is that most all of my 3.0's got bumped up and now I have too many 3.5's! Now comes the hard part. :shock: :?

Tod

AP328 · Nov 28, 2007

I am in the exact same spot, except I haven't clicked the button yet. My captain is begging me to appeal since we lost 4 players already. Our 2008 season already started.

I was pretty happy with the bump since I played well last season and we made the play-offs. Then, as directed, I called to coordinator to find out if I was in the appeal range. To my surprise, I was. My regular doubles partner was bumped and other players I have beaten this season were also bumped.

I don't think I want "appeal remorse" either...but here's my problem.
We have a long season here...late Sept to mid April. So the end of the year is half the season. There aren't many 3.5 teams this year. So if I don't appeal, it will likely be difficult to 1) find a team that isn't full and 2) get some playing time as a "3.5". If I do appeal and stay at 3.0, then I am worried I will not continue to improve. I know I play better against better competition.

From the earlier replies to the original post I read, it sounds like I should keep the 3.5 rating. However, I don't want to lose the chance to play regularly the second half of the season.

Thoughts?

spiderman123 said:
Last year was my first in USTA league and I was 3.0 self-rated.

I finished with 9-3 and was not expecting to be bumped up especially after a first round tournament loss (won the Consolation Draw though).

When I was bumped up, I was happy but after some discussion my captain suggested that I should appeal and it would be granted automatically if I was between 3.01 and 3.05.

For reasons known to none, I clicked those buttons (maybe I wanted to prove to myself that I was not a borderline case) and to my surprise, I was a 3.0 within seconds.

Now I have a 3.0 "A" against my name and I don't like it. True that I have not yet "mastered" 3.0 as I would have liked but it would have been nice to have a 3.5 label.

Sincere advice to anyone who is considering an appeal, think about this. If you are in a doubt, don't appeal. If you feel even a little bit happy about getting bumped up, don't appeal. You will play with better players and have earned this promotion. If you do get blown, you will come down next year but you have a new challenge to maintain this hard-earned level. If you do decide to quit playing tennis for whatever reason, you will retire as a higher rated player. I now am going into this season with added pressure.

I have learnt my lesson. I will never press that appeal button ever again.

burosky · Nov 29, 2007

BiGGieStuFF said:
Stay with the appeal. When teams start trying to recruit you it can boost your confidence .

This can be a double edged sword though. Those teams will try to recruit you on the assumption that since you are at the top of your level you will dominate. It can certainly boost your confidence but with that comes added pressure. With that added pressure, it can easily affect your game not necessarily because of nerves but because it may hinder you from trying new things to improve. It would be very easy to succumb to the pressure of winning by sticking to whatever it was that made you win on that level be it wrong or right. Instead of improving your game it could stagnate.

I suppose if winning is the only objective this doesn't matter.

cknobman · Nov 29, 2007

I say you should do something similar to what I did.

Play both 3.0 and 3.5 leagues in spring and make the playoff decision(if necessary). Youll get great practice at 3.5 which makes your 3.0 matches all the easier.
Play only 3.5 tournaments and dont expect to do great. As the season progresses your tournament results will improve.
By Early Start next year you will be bored with 3.0 and looking forward to 3.5.

It was an easy and smooth transition plus playing at two levels netted me twice the court time(which I like).

kevhen · Nov 29, 2007

Can't you appeal back to 3.5? Just play 3.5 matches this next year and you should get a 3.5 rating if they won't let you appeal up now that you appealed down.

I am sure if you email the right people they can make you a 3.5. Better to play higher level so you can continue to improve. Just play 3.5s.

todot62 · Nov 29, 2007

kevhen said:
Can't you appeal back to 3.5? Just play 3.5 matches this next year and you should get a 3.5 rating if they won't let you appeal up now that you appealed down.

I am sure if you email the right people they can make you a 3.5. Better to play higher level so you can continue to improve. Just play 3.5s.

Good point. When you appeal, there is also the choice to appeal up. You can appeal as many times, and when ever you want, so if you are truly having "appealer's remorse" just go back in and have yourself moved back up to 3.5. Simple, problem solved.

Now we can move on.

Tod

fe6250 · Nov 30, 2007

Appeal / Don't Appeal??

Personally, I don't think of the rating as a 'badge' of any kind. My abilities don't change - just because the computer spits out a new or different rating - only my reaction to that badge is impacted. I appealed last year and enjoyed the opportunities available to me in multiple leagues and actually even concentrated on the higher level league. Sandbagger? - I don't think so - I only played in tough matches against teams with strong and appealling players. Anyway - enjoy the opportunities the lower rating gives you and move up when you have to or when the lower rated league no longer provides you with a challenge.

Cindysphinx · Nov 30, 2007

I can see why you'd feel that way, fe6250. It won't surprise you to hear I had the opposite reaction to getting a higher rating.

For me, it was objective proof of what I suspected -- that I was getting a little better. I mean, you can tell if you are winning, and you can look up the records of the people you play, but you can never be completely sure where you stand in the close matches. It also made me feel a little better about the matches I did lose this spring. Apparently, the players who beat me were pretty good, and it wasn't just a case of me being bad (which is surely what it felt like when they kept getting the ball past me).

And around here, having the higher number opens up opportunities to play up (whereas appealing down opens up opportunities to play down). If I am a 3.0 instead of a 3.5, I can't easily find a captain who will even take my calls to play 7.5 combo or 8.0 mixed.

The other subtle psychological thing is that even if I did find a partner to play with me at a high level, that partner will likely see me as the weaker player by virtue of my lower rating. I have a friend who played up onto a 3.5 team, and the teammates snubbed her because they didn't wish to have their own ratings dragged down by playing with her. Had she been a 3.5, I doubt this would have happened quite as much.

fe6250 · Nov 30, 2007

Cindysphinx - I understand your point and not to sound sexist here, but I see that issue much more with the women's leagues than the men's leagues for some reason. I haven't seen any issues with men at our club and their actual ratings - especially with the better players as they are able to recognize talent over the badge. Either way - it didn't impact my ability to play on strong teams at either level.

AP328 · Nov 30, 2007

Ok, I understand you points and Cindy's reply. What I don't understand is how your abilities don't change. If you continue to play, you will, more than likely, improve. Now, I guess it would be your skills that improve rather than you ability. Did you mean your "physical ability" does not change?

fe6250 said:
Personally, I don't think of the rating as a 'badge' of any kind. My abilities don't change - just because the computer spits out a new or different rating - only my reaction to that badge is impacted. I appealed last year and enjoyed the opportunities available to me in multiple leagues and actually even concentrated on the higher level league. Sandbagger? - I don't think so - I only played in tough matches against teams with strong and appealling players. Anyway - enjoy the opportunities the lower rating gives you and move up when you have to or when the lower rated league no longer provides you with a challenge.

fe6250 · Feb 2, 2008

AP328 said:
Ok, I understand you points and Cindy's reply. What I don't understand is how your abilities don't change. If you continue to play, you will, more than likely, improve. Now, I guess it would be your skills that improve rather than you ability. Did you mean your "physical ability" does not change?

What I meant was that the day I got the 'bump', I wasn't any better than the day before it officially happened. The day I appealed back, I didn't suddenly get worse.

The 'bump' was objective validation that I had gotten better (whether I appealed or not) - appealing allowed me to play more as I was able to play 'up' and at the same level. This year I got 'bumped' again and didn't appeal as the old level did not offer anything for me anymore. I am however playing 'up' another level to continue to try to improve.

Applesauceman · Feb 2, 2008

I appealed every time I was bumped up. You can always play up, but not down. I felt more confident when my appeal was denied and saw it as an opportunity to improve when my appeal was approved. The denied appeal proved to me that I truly earned the bump up.

rockthebox · Feb 3, 2008

give them an email or call them

Feeling Blue After Appeal

Professional

Rookie

Rookie

Semi-Pro

Rookie

Rookie

Semi-Pro

Hall of Fame

G.O.A.T.

Professional

G.O.A.T.

Professional

G.O.A.T.

Hall of Fame

Professional

Rookie

Rookie

Professional

Legend

Hall of Fame

Rookie

Semi-Pro

G.O.A.T.

Semi-Pro

Rookie

Semi-Pro

Semi-Pro

Rookie

Similar threads