I am curious, is the Head Pro Tour 630 280 in any way similar to the Head Radical Twin Tube midplus version (1995 version)? Currently I have the twin tube Midplus and I am thinking of selling it and buying the Pro Tour "Made in Austria" version. I need input. Which on is better? I know the Pro Tour 280 is worth more money, but that is all I know.
Head radical twin Tube Midplus vs. Head Pro Tour 280
- Thread starter dt101
- Start date
Doc Hollidae
Hall of Fame
interesting. just picked up 2 made in austria pt 280s
both have twaron in them. that's all i know.
i'm pretty sure the Twin tube radical (zebra) is lighter than the PT280 by quite a bit...
The TT Tour MP and PT280 are relatively similar in specs, the weight differential would be .1-.2 oz at most. The PT280 is lower powered and more flexible. You probably won't notice much of a difference outside of that.
I'm sure if vsbabolat sees this thread he'll be able to provide more accurate information on the specs.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
Both of those racquets are from the same mold and have very similar specs.. They are both excellent racquets. Asking which one is better is like asking what flavor of ice cream is better?
Thanks. But do you think they both feel similar?
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The twin tube radical was quite a bit different. I got a preferred player sponsorship with Head during their transition phase from the older no gimic, "classic" construction rackets and their new "hi-tech" offerings.
Unfortunately...I bought in hook, line, and sinker into the "hi-tech" mindset of the day.
Much preferred the raw ball feel and assuredness of the Prestige Classic and PT280, which Head both still made available at the time, but instead went with the "twin tube" Radical Tour as it was kind of seen as the Babolat Pure Drive "must have" tech of the day.
This said, is the Radical Tour a bad racket? No, not really. It took me years after when I discovered this board, that oh wait, maybe the PT280 is a better racket.
In other words, this board DOES tend to bias you toward the more "old school" frames as somehow being better. (i.e. when I tried the Premier Tour out, I was drooling...thinking this is awesome and get this BETTER than the much vaunted PT280...now that the 280 years later is revered and almost kind of viewed like a "cult" classic, I think to myself how could I ever think that? So believe it or not, one person when he was in an *unbiased* state did NOT hate the Premier Tour, so sue me and throw a bag of chips at me).
Objectively speaking though, I would say that the Radical Tour is a FANTASTIC player's frame that offers decent spin, with pretty good control, good comfort for its stifness, excellent stability, and most of all very good get up and go for a player's racket. As for the zebra graphics, they were generally something you either hated or loved, but personally I fell right in the middle and thought it was (in my best Simon voice) "ok, flashy, perhaps a bit over-indulgent, but ok. If I'm being honest here, I don't think you're quite as good looking as you think you are (not saying I wouldn't do you though)."
On paper, I would say that the twin tube Radical Tour TRUMPS the PT280 and I think in most player's hands would help them out more in actual results. Where the 280 wins is for more highly advanced or fine wine sippers among us.
The 280 has that classic, aged feel. It's the kind of racket where if it's drizzling slightly outside, you'll feel every last rain drop and it's unique contours and sensations on your racket. With the twin tube construction, however, you'll find that it's a technology that really does do what it says on paper, but it has a tendency to make rackets feel slightly disconnected in a floating on a cloud of oatmeal sort of way.
You can never quite put your finger on it as everything's nicely muted yet crisp, flexy yet stiff, paradoxically in tune, control is good/power is good, etc. BUT you still get this vague sense at the end of the day that something's missing and everything's vague. Have you been drugged? You don't know, just know that you have no memory of what's just been going on for the last few months with the racket or so. In other words, in ONE word, numb.
There's just something about twin tube rackets that leaves you feeling less than exhilarated or enthralled and numb at the end of the day.
On paper though, I would give the 280 a definitive edge in terms of actual tangible PERFORMANCE aspects in one area only...and that is, ever so slightly, more control (which to your average consumer could just as easily be interpreted as this racket's underpowered and therefore must have a radical design flaw).
Unfortunately...I bought in hook, line, and sinker into the "hi-tech" mindset of the day.
Much preferred the raw ball feel and assuredness of the Prestige Classic and PT280, which Head both still made available at the time, but instead went with the "twin tube" Radical Tour as it was kind of seen as the Babolat Pure Drive "must have" tech of the day.
This said, is the Radical Tour a bad racket? No, not really. It took me years after when I discovered this board, that oh wait, maybe the PT280 is a better racket.
In other words, this board DOES tend to bias you toward the more "old school" frames as somehow being better. (i.e. when I tried the Premier Tour out, I was drooling...thinking this is awesome and get this BETTER than the much vaunted PT280...now that the 280 years later is revered and almost kind of viewed like a "cult" classic, I think to myself how could I ever think that? So believe it or not, one person when he was in an *unbiased* state did NOT hate the Premier Tour, so sue me and throw a bag of chips at me).
Objectively speaking though, I would say that the Radical Tour is a FANTASTIC player's frame that offers decent spin, with pretty good control, good comfort for its stifness, excellent stability, and most of all very good get up and go for a player's racket. As for the zebra graphics, they were generally something you either hated or loved, but personally I fell right in the middle and thought it was (in my best Simon voice) "ok, flashy, perhaps a bit over-indulgent, but ok. If I'm being honest here, I don't think you're quite as good looking as you think you are (not saying I wouldn't do you though)."
On paper, I would say that the twin tube Radical Tour TRUMPS the PT280 and I think in most player's hands would help them out more in actual results. Where the 280 wins is for more highly advanced or fine wine sippers among us.
The 280 has that classic, aged feel. It's the kind of racket where if it's drizzling slightly outside, you'll feel every last rain drop and it's unique contours and sensations on your racket. With the twin tube construction, however, you'll find that it's a technology that really does do what it says on paper, but it has a tendency to make rackets feel slightly disconnected in a floating on a cloud of oatmeal sort of way.
You can never quite put your finger on it as everything's nicely muted yet crisp, flexy yet stiff, paradoxically in tune, control is good/power is good, etc. BUT you still get this vague sense at the end of the day that something's missing and everything's vague. Have you been drugged? You don't know, just know that you have no memory of what's just been going on for the last few months with the racket or so. In other words, in ONE word, numb.
There's just something about twin tube rackets that leaves you feeling less than exhilarated or enthralled and numb at the end of the day.
On paper though, I would give the 280 a definitive edge in terms of actual tangible PERFORMANCE aspects in one area only...and that is, ever so slightly, more control (which to your average consumer could just as easily be interpreted as this racket's underpowered and therefore must have a radical design flaw).
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Deuce
Banned
It wasn't a positive difference to me.
I preferred the original Radical over the Twin Tube.
I also prefer the Pro Tour over the Twin Tube Radical.
That said, the Twin Tube Radical was significantly more solid and hit with a lot more feel than most of today's crap.
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
Hey thanks for all the great input.
So to sum it all up the Pro Tour 280 just has a better feel. Does the 280 feel more like the Prestige Classic 600 "Made in Austria" version? I like the way the Prestige feels.i would say that the pro tour is definitely like a midplus version of the PC. this is just my opinion here. iTym: Thanks for the review. Good stuff there
The only thing that the pro tour lacks is at the net in my point of view. Its not hard to hit a great volley, but when being smacked a winner it seems a little difficult to control. This is where i think the radical has the edge. The balance i think is a little more head heavy than the PT.
In terms of feel i would go for the PT. But if you just like bashing the ball the Radical is definitely great.
But this is all relative. If you really wanted to know the difference between the two, you need to try it for yourself.
The only thing that the pro tour lacks is at the net in my point of view. Its not hard to hit a great volley, but when being smacked a winner it seems a little difficult to control. This is where i think the radical has the edge. The balance i think is a little more head heavy than the PT.
In terms of feel i would go for the PT. But if you just like bashing the ball the Radical is definitely great.
But this is all relative. If you really wanted to know the difference between the two, you need to try it for yourself.
Deuce
Banned
The iPrestige Mid's feel is closer than the Prestige Classic Mid's to the feel of the Pro Tour.
I don't think the Pro Tour and Prestige Classic Mid feel similar at all. They're both great racquets, but quite different.
The Prestige Classic Mid has a very soft, pocketing feel, whereas the Pro Tour's feel is more comfortably crisp - similar to the iPrestige Mid in that way.
I don't think the Pro Tour and Prestige Classic Mid feel similar at all. They're both great racquets, but quite different.
The Prestige Classic Mid has a very soft, pocketing feel, whereas the Pro Tour's feel is more comfortably crisp - similar to the iPrestige Mid in that way.
Tend to agree that the Prestige Classic 600 and the PT280 are really not that alike. I've demoed and owned both extensively. The made in Austria Prestige Classic 600's have a raw, CRISP, animalistic, cagey quality to them that the later TW releases and designed in Austria releases didn't have. I'd say these later releases of the Prestige Classic have more of the PT280 feel which I would describe as being a little more like buttery than raw-RAW in the strictest sense of the word. To me, a good PT280 felt like a SOLID chunk of high-quality butter. It gives a solid sensation but is still buttery goodness WITHOUT feeling all mushy on you.
The twin tubes are mayonaisse by comparison...ooh-la-la.
The twin tubes are mayonaisse by comparison...ooh-la-la.
galain
Hall of Fame
!Tym
Without wanting to derail this thread, have you ever played with the Prestige Pro? I am passing curious about this, because we see so much being written about the Prestiges and the Pro Tours, yet a Head sponsored friend of mine who has tried every iteration of the Prestige refuses to use anything else except his brown PPros. To him, they are a night and day difference from everything that followed (although he does admit to liking the PT 630 very much - it just aint his PPro). I haven't had the pleasure yet of any extensive court time with the Prestige Pro - they're hard to find - but if you have any insights it'd be great to hear them.
BTW - just to keep this on topic - my friend never cared for the original Radical models. He felt the balance was a bit strange, the feel not on the same level as the Prestige Pro (or the PT) and the control lacking in comparison as well.
Without wanting to derail this thread, have you ever played with the Prestige Pro? I am passing curious about this, because we see so much being written about the Prestiges and the Pro Tours, yet a Head sponsored friend of mine who has tried every iteration of the Prestige refuses to use anything else except his brown PPros. To him, they are a night and day difference from everything that followed (although he does admit to liking the PT 630 very much - it just aint his PPro). I haven't had the pleasure yet of any extensive court time with the Prestige Pro - they're hard to find - but if you have any insights it'd be great to hear them.
BTW - just to keep this on topic - my friend never cared for the original Radical models. He felt the balance was a bit strange, the feel not on the same level as the Prestige Pro (or the PT) and the control lacking in comparison as well.
jayserinos99
Hall of Fame
Hi, I'm not !Tym but I can add to the brown PPro versus Prestige Classic versus Pro Tour 630 comparison somewhat. Definitely the PPro was the most solid out of the 3 but for me I had some times where I'd hit it late but when I took that nice relaxed swing the ball just had that heaviness and pace to it that was scary. The Prestige Classics that I use are the Trek font Prestige Classic and it's the Prestige I use the most as it has that blend of being solid and yet easy to get around. It doesn't have the solidness of the PPro but I feel that the Trek is just easier to use over the long haul as I'd be too tired using the PPro during long matches. The Pro Tour 630 (well mine) were quite flexy but it was definitely more user friendly for me, especially on returns. The Prestige Classic does have a more firm feel than the Pro Tour 630. I think that the Pro Tour 630 volleys well as well, no sluggishness issues with me.
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
Guys what is the closest frame to a PC600/Brown Prestige Pro etc... that is more forgiving, THAT IS THE QUESTION, it is the PT630, period.
Guys it is depressing, why are we even talking about a Brown Prestige Pro that is even more impossible to find than the PT630 which costs so much money. I would not even want to play with it. It is like driving 50 miles with a 1953 corvette to work everyday
Anyway, I have made one of my PT630 to hit even closer to a PC600 by manipulating extreme string tension between mains and crosses. Only problem I have shaped the head of the PT630 to be 600'ish which is more oval, it played closer to a PC600 but was not forgiving like before. It reminded me of the head shape of the Premier tour IMO only it had CAPS, was dense and balanced correctly
Guys it is depressing, why are we even talking about a Brown Prestige Pro that is even more impossible to find than the PT630 which costs so much money. I would not even want to play with it. It is like driving 50 miles with a 1953 corvette to work everyday
Anyway, I have made one of my PT630 to hit even closer to a PC600 by manipulating extreme string tension between mains and crosses. Only problem I have shaped the head of the PT630 to be 600'ish which is more oval, it played closer to a PC600 but was not forgiving like before. It reminded me of the head shape of the Premier tour IMO only it had CAPS, was dense and balanced correctly
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I play with most of the racquets you guys mention here. Brown Prestige Pro, Brown fading to Red Prestige Pro, Green/Silver Prestige 600, PT 280, and PT630. BTW, I am only talking about "Made in Austria" stuff here.
The difference between the PT280 and PT630 is HUGE! The PT630 is very very very flexible, almost like noodle. That IS the ONLY reason why it volleys like crap! Since it's so flexi, you have to work harder when you block back volleys and because of that it's much harder to control. On the other hand, PT280 is noticeably more stiff and that is why it volleys much much better. I play with the PT280 now as my volley is much more solid and I can get much more power AND control from the baseline. The PT630 is good for people with arm issue as it's very soft and flexible, too flexible, for that matter.
So, I would say that the PT280 is much more closer to the Prestiges.
Now, for the brown Prestige Pro, I used to play with it, but wanted to concentrate on grooving with the PT so that's why it's been collecting dust. What I recalled was that it's much more stiff than the PT630, solid as granite, and has high swing weight because the balance is around 4-6 point head light. I will string it up again and start playing more serve and volley with it because that's what it excels at. Plus, I want to see if I can improve my game with it.
The PT280 (full cap) has almost identical balance point, swing weight, feel, and flex as the brown Prestige Pro. PT280 = Brownie re-incarnated. There, I let the cat out. Now watch the price of the PT280 sky-rocket! LOL
Anyone wants my PT630? :twisted:
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MichaelChang
Hall of Fame
The OP asked about Radical Twin Tube and PT280. and it seems now the discussion has become PC/PT differences. lol.
frekcles
Semi-Pro
Keep your TT zebra and just buy the PT280. They're both excellent racquets in their own right. You can't go wrong with either.
Good luck!
hyogen
Hall of Fame
so which one came first between the pt280 and 630? i have a 280 sitting on my desk right now... beckoning me.
looks like the 630 doesn't have the trisys system... IDS integrated damping system on it, while my pt280 does.
if i find the pt280 to be more stiff than what I want, maybe someone would trade me for their 630
looks like the 630 doesn't have the trisys system... IDS integrated damping system on it, while my pt280 does.
if i find the pt280 to be more stiff than what I want, maybe someone would trade me for their 630
You're right...did I say mayonaisse? I meant structurally reinforced mayonaisse. It's still useful and has it's own kitsch appeal still I guess, one of the better technologies produced I'd say in all seriousness.
Btw, never tried the original Prestige Pro, but I believe Michael Chaho is one of those in the club that says the Prestige Pro was really the best. I don't really doubt that it was. This said, my Made in Austria Prestige Classics weighed 13.1 oz. strung due to the custom grip mold I used, a Prince 4-1/8th grip copied from the Prince POG Mid, in which I use a VERY heavy filler matierial/resin compared to the standard *expanding* PU foam used for racket handles...plus, the fact that I only use leather grips.
Honestly, the first time I tried them with this mold, the rackets became TOO heavy to handle for me. But MAN were they solid, and when I connected, MAN, did I connect! Like a sonic boom going off...or at the very least a howitzer styled after Mark Philipoussis on his best behavior circa 1998 or so.
The thing is, on the first day I can remember airing and whiffing quite frequently and it was kind of embarrassing. The balance and weighting just felt so weird to me...too narrow a head with too much mass centered in both the head (CAPs) and the handle, with no mass in the middle/throat area. This more than the weight is what really seemed to throw me off.
Then, I got used to it, and didn't really have any problems after that, go figure.
This said, the racket that REALLY shined with the extra weight of my custom grip mold was the Pyramid Tour. I mean seriously the racket just went to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL with the extra weight. At 13.2oz. I discovered the WEIRDEST thing, the racket actually felt MORE maneuverable to me...ridicuously maneuverable for the weight to the point that I just couldn't believe what was happening. Weird, got all the benefits of extra weight, but NONE of the drawbacks. In fact, the racket just maneuvered and handled so much better it was really shocking. One-handed backhands especially became easier than with ANYTHING I've ever tried by a landslide. Again, I really have no clue as to why this is, it just is/was.
At 12.8 oz? Eh, the racket just felt more solid but became heavy and sluggish feeling when I first bought the rackets and with the stock 4-1/4th pallets put on the tacky version of the Fairway leather grips (heaviest leather grips I've tried out...didn't like them either).
Again, weird but once I got to the magic 13.1-13.2 oz. barrier it was like turning into liquid magic out there for me. Have no explanation for it whatsoever, none, except to say that the racket just seemed to have this feel at this weight that you had just unlocked its secret, MAGIC balance point and THIS was the unpublished spec at which the racket was DESIGNED to harmonate/resonate/jive-a-late just BEAUTIFULLY in a way that was more beautiful than words. It was like their were angels floating around and everything, even the squirells rummaing for twinkies through my bag stopped to clap.
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Azzurri
Legend
!Tym you gave me a HEADache ( not pun intended)
Where did you get that avatar!!!???
Azzurri
Legend
Hey thanks for all the great input.
The "made" and "designed" in Austria racquets are the same..made in the same place. Only difference is the grip and grommets are finished in CR...
MichaelChang
Hall of Fame
some PT was at some time made in china. so those "designed' in austria PTs are really made in China.
for the PC, it has always been made in Austria. the "designed" ones means they are finished in Czeck. ( the racket says "Made in Czech Republic"). The TW classic MidPlus belong to this catetory as well.
Azzurri
Legend
Don't know about those other racquets. The made in Chezch (spelled wrong) PC 600 are still made in Austria..the frame itself. There was soe kind of issue with labeling where and who designed or made and there is a whole story about this..must do a search, but the PC 600 is supposed to be the same Made or designed in Austria.
vsbabolat
G.O.A.T.
The Pro Tour 630 was never made in China. The Pro Tour 280 had SMU's after it was discontinued that was made in China. Those have made in china in the throat and or a black butt cap the head logo stamped in silver on it (not a a black sticker or a hologram sticker) also with China on the butt cap.
There were some at the end of in line Pro Tour 280 production that were made in Kennelbach, Austria and finished in the HEAD Ceske Budejovice, Czech Republic factory. Those have Designed in Austria, "HEAD Barcode Label Inside" and the Hologram Sticker on the Butt cap.
MichaelChang
Hall of Fame
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
I agree
Dare I say what you have just said people will get out the noose on me.
As for the PT280, you are talking about the Chinese earlier version or the later version ?
Also there were no PT280 that came stock with full original cap, you have to add that and it has to be the original one not the cheap plastic ones that came from iprestige MP onward.
Anyway are your PT630's like NEW to NEW?
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As I had noted in my email, I'm talking about "Made in Austria" only.
I have several 8/10 condition PT630. I am still deciding when to sell them but not definite yet.
I added the full CAP from the LM. It doesn't matter for me whether they are cheap plastic. I just like the way they are hitting now. However, it's freaking more head heavy for sure. 4 point headlight.
I have several 8/10 condition PT630. I am still deciding when to sell them but not definite yet.
I added the full CAP from the LM. It doesn't matter for me whether they are cheap plastic. I just like the way they are hitting now. However, it's freaking more head heavy for sure. 4 point headlight.
hyogen
Hall of Fame
i may be interested a little later in your PT630s. gonna stock up on pt280s/630s...maybe i'll just stick with one.
Speedygonzalez
Rookie
Pro_Tour_630: Great avatar! Every ten seconds I have to wipe off the saliva from my desk. Regarding installing CAP on the PT280:what are your experiences? I have new CAPS for my PT280s but I didn't dare to install them yet. Does it affect playing characteristics?
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
which avatar were you talking about? you should have seen the one before that,
it got deleted. as for the CAP, are they original PT630 CAPS? IF so do not install them you will render your PT630 useless. Please send them to me since they will make your PT630 play like a 2X4, :twisted: seriously...................Just kiddin, it will affect the playing characteristics of your PT, some like it some do not, it all depends what your stock frame weighs, if it starts off on the high side then adding CAP will make it swing much heavier. They are very easy to install but once you sting them and take them off they it gets tricky putting them back on, you need to heat and shape the grommets. Like I said if you put them on and decide you do not like them send them to me and put new iprestige MP XL NON caped grommets from TW, they are much lighter
I have a few dozens PT630 not sure how much tandayu has
Speedygonzalez
Rookie
Pro_Tour_630: Thanks for the info! I was referring to your current avatar. That bunch of PTs looks just gorgeous...
Regarding the CAPS I have the full cap versions of the LM prestiges mp, not the shorter ones of the iprestiges. I read these would fit the PTs as well. I must say that I haven't played too much with the PTs yet since I am having a good time with the iprestige mid. I have both the full capped 630 and the 280 with bumper guard. They are all Austrian made and because I liked the way they played and couldn't detect large differences I just left the bumper guards.... Unfortunately I don't have a scale to weight these babies.... But besides swingweight, does installing caps affect the racquet in any other ways?
Regarding the CAPS I have the full cap versions of the LM prestiges mp, not the shorter ones of the iprestiges. I read these would fit the PTs as well. I must say that I haven't played too much with the PTs yet since I am having a good time with the iprestige mid. I have both the full capped 630 and the 280 with bumper guard. They are all Austrian made and because I liked the way they played and couldn't detect large differences I just left the bumper guards.... Unfortunately I don't have a scale to weight these babies.... But besides swingweight, does installing caps affect the racquet in any other ways?
Pro_Tour_630
Legend
you might make a mess out of your keyboard.
CAP IMO does add stability
hyogen
Hall of Fame
you might make a mess out of your keyboard.
so be it. i need a new keyboard anyways
let's see the pic
hyogen
Hall of Fame
stronzzi70
Professional
HEAD RADICAL TOUR TWIN TUBE.....How much weight with full cap than the normal caps.?
