roddickfan90
Banned
i reckon safin could have dominated today if he played like he did back in 2000. i just want your thoughts to whether safin would beat nadal today if he played like he did against sampras in 2000, thankyou
safin of 2000 v nadal of 2008
- Thread starter roddickfan90
- Start date
MarrratSafin
Hall of Fame
He might, as he was hitting incredible shots with incredible pace back then, and yet not much errors. Nadal's shots are not that fast with more spin. But then Nadal's shots with all that spin are harder to handle than the flatter shots of Sampras.. who knows.
Clay lover
Legend
Even a Safin back in 2000 wouldn't always be the same person throughout the same match, let alone a whole tournament. That has always been his problem, and Nadal is just too consistent for him. I reckon 50/50 on hard courts and a landslide on clay. Grass? Who cares.
D
Deleted member 22147
Guest
50-50 on hard : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Nadal_Freak
Banned
Sounds about right to me hater.
roddickfan90
Banned
ye, i think marat would merc nadal on hard and carpet.
D
Deleted member 22147
Guest
Safin at his peak would hammer Nadal on any type of hard or carpet. Nadal would win on clay, but Marat could trouble him. When Marat was peak he played on fast grass, so how can you compare? Nadal won Wimbledon on green clay.
sargeinaz
Hall of Fame
No hate about it. Old Safin = murder of nadal on hard courts. No need to get defensive, it's not like your boy doesn't have 3 times the slams safin does.
Nadal_Freak
Banned
If the Old Safin was that great, he would've won more then 2 slams in his career. What he did to Sampras was impressive but that is just one match. Not the norm for him.
GameSampras
Banned
Safin 00 USO could defeat anyone today on Hardcourts with ease. But hes always been an up and down player. If he could have maintained what he did at the USO in 00 and brought it through the whole season, who knows?
2008 Nadal was quite nice on HC....so I would say it would be a competitive match up maybe 4 sets.......unless Marat was playing at his best and he would straight set Nadal.
Clay isn't worth mentioning we all know the answer
Indoor again close...problem I see with Safin is that he struggled quite alot with focus and himself to be quite honest even when at his best.....
Where Nadal is highly consistant week in week out!
Clay isn't worth mentioning we all know the answer
Indoor again close...problem I see with Safin is that he struggled quite alot with focus and himself to be quite honest even when at his best.....
Where Nadal is highly consistant week in week out!
GameSampras
Banned
Oh Nadal wouldnt have stood a chance with Safin 00 USO at the AO. It would have been a massacre.
How could Nadal of dealt with this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iR-TkvFWkM&feature=related
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Nadal_Freak
Banned
Nadal plays a totally different way. Hard to know how Safin would be able to handle a player that brings so many balls back.
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
wimbledon isnt played on har tru dumbass you can look on wikipedia to check and if im not mistaken safin prefers a slower fast court so id say its 50:50, it would have been a great match if it somehow happened
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
with what, great passing shots imho i dont think nadal is a serve and voley type of player so he wouldnt have to deal with that and nadal is a better serve returner than sampras was, again it would be a 50-50 match
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
You're right, it would have been 80-20 for Nadal on hard court. I still have no idea why Safin is so overrated on this board just because he played well a couple of times in his career.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Next thing you know, they're gonna tell you that Safin is a "patient" player lol. Safin is a ball basher, Nadal would have outsmarted him like he did Blake twice in 2008.
thalivest
Banned
Safin of 2000 possibly wins the U.S Open to deny Nadal the calender slam. Nadal wins everything else. If they play on clay and grass Nadal still smacks him down. Maybe a decent match on clay on a day Safin is playing great but still no shot for Safin to win there. Actually on 2nd though he struggled vs players like Kiefer and a few others to even reach that U.S Open final so vs todays deeper field than 2000 perhaps he doesnt even survive the draw to the final to play Nadal anyway.
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thalivest
Banned
The problem is Safin very rarely played like he did in the 2000 U.S Open final even in 2000. OK granted that was probably the match of his life so isnt realistic to produce every day, he produced many other very good matches on hard courts and some on clay as well that year. However he wasnt consistent enough in his level of play to ensure dominance on hard courts or vs Nadal even on hard courts.
Federer does not beat Nadal on hard courts with ease at this point, and Safin even at his best is not clearly better than Federer on hard courts (he had to play the 2nd best match of his life to so narrowly beat Federer from a match point down).
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allcourter2008
Semi-Pro
Match-up wise, Safin has one of the best possible games to beat Nadal on hardcourts and carpet. He wouldn't need to play at the level of the USO 2000 or AO 2005 to beat Nadal on a faster hardcourt.
Nadal improved his forehand a lot, but it's still a stroke with a long backswing. The flat and powerful backhand of Safin would make it very difficult for Nadal to hit consistently with depth and power of his forehand side. Safin would also punish Nadal's 2nd serves while making it difficult for Nadal to get a break with his huge serve.
In the end such a match would be decided by the consistency of Safin's forehand.
Nadal improved his forehand a lot, but it's still a stroke with a long backswing. The flat and powerful backhand of Safin would make it very difficult for Nadal to hit consistently with depth and power of his forehand side. Safin would also punish Nadal's 2nd serves while making it difficult for Nadal to get a break with his huge serve.
In the end such a match would be decided by the consistency of Safin's forehand.
Nadal would win easily on any surface, no question. Safin had a very easy opponent in his first GS final who was only there because of home country crowd support. Nadal meanwhile defeated someone who can actually hit a shot other than the serve.
But if you look at 2005 safin, I'm not so sure. Probably Nadal still on any surface, but he may need 5 sets on a hard court.
But if you look at 2005 safin, I'm not so sure. Probably Nadal still on any surface, but he may need 5 sets on a hard court.
DarthFed
Hall of Fame
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
This was a completely unbiassed statement actuallyCould you be ANY more biased?
DarthFed
Hall of Fame
This was a completely unbiassed statement actually
Sigh....Bull****:roll: this isn't even remotely fun anymore...
allcourter2008
Semi-Pro
That's just a hillarious post.
sargeinaz
Hall of Fame
Nadal couldn't have dealt with that. I believe Sampras said something along the lines of "I threw everything at him and it didn't work". When Pete Sampras says that about you after a match he plays against you (not compliments about current players that he never got to play against) , let alone a slam final, that speaks volumes about how good you are/can be. Hell even Safin said he was nervous about Pete saying that on the Letterman show because it's such a compliment.
abmk
Bionic Poster
At their respective bests, I'd take safin at both the USO and AO. No question of even any argument on clay ( though safin might give him a 'decent' fight here when on ) and grass ....
But then safin is inconsistent, even in 2000, when he reached no1 for as short time, he wasn't the epitome of consistency .....
But then safin is inconsistent, even in 2000, when he reached no1 for as short time, he wasn't the epitome of consistency .....
rubberduckies
Professional
Why did you put a link to that game? If Safin played like that for a match, Nadal would destroy him. All that clip showed was a Safin who couldn't hit a first serve, who was making unforced errors, who had to save 2 breakpoints, and who was capitalizing on terrible approach shots by Sampras. Those types of approaches may have worked in the 90s, but they're just sitting ducks for guys like Safin, Federer, and Nadal. If anything, matches like that showed that serve and volley was coming to an end.
allcourter2008
Semi-Pro
Safin won almost 60% against the best 2nd serve of all time on one of the fastest courts. Of course some approaches of Sampras were bad, but you've got to get the serve back in the first place to win a point, and Safin does that very effectively when he plays well.
As you know, Nadal's favorite serve is the one going to a righthanders backhand, and Safin is tall and has (or had) one of the best two-handers ever.
I think you've got no idea what thath Safin could do to Nadal's 2nd serve... Safin wouldn't net those serve like Federer tends to do.
To beat Nadal on hardcourt you need bruteforce, not a great tactical brain. Monfils showed that very well just before the AO, the gameplan is simple:
Pound Nadal's forehand to get a short, loopy reply and hit the winner off it or get a put-away.
Safin could get short forehands from Nadal from both his forehand and backhand.
Unlike Federer/Monfils/Tsonga who have to run around their backhands, which makes them predictable and vulnerable.
rubberduckies
Professional
It's easy to say these things when you know that there can never be a match between the 'real' Safin and Nadal. Obviously, all Safin would have to do is pound Nadal's forehand and then hit a winner on the next shot. It would be the easiest thing in the world.
allcourter2008
Semi-Pro
It is simple, it's all about the execution. Monfils did it like that only a few weeks ago.
When Safin had a good day around 99-01, he had, compared to Monfils, a better forehand, a much much better backhand, a bigger serve, a better return game, and better volleys. Go figure.
Of course when Safin has a day where he can't get a 1st serve in and sprays forehands all over the court he wouldn't win.
GameSampras
Banned
Gimme a break guys. Sampras even at 30 was a better Hardcourt player than Nadal is currently at least Nadal of the USO. When Nadal reaches a USO final then you can talk. Sampras won 5 USO titles and was humiliated in the final of the USO 00. Im not saying Safin could win consistently on HCs. But if he were to bring the game to Nadal or Fed that he did Sampras in the 00 USO final, he DESTROYS Nadal at the USO bottom line. Im not drinking the Nadal HC kool-aid yet. Beating Fed is one thing. Beating Safin who was playing his best tennis ever at the USO 2000 is another story.
Im not even so sure Nadal could handle 05 AO Safin. Its a game of matchups. Safin could deal with Nadal's topspin with his 2 handed BH better than Fed.
So.. Lets see Nadal even reach a USO final first before we can say he would beat USO 2000 Safin.
Nadal at the USO does NOT BEAT Safin of the 2000 USO playing the best tennis of his career. He cant even get by Murray
Im not even so sure Nadal could handle 05 AO Safin. Its a game of matchups. Safin could deal with Nadal's topspin with his 2 handed BH better than Fed.
So.. Lets see Nadal even reach a USO final first before we can say he would beat USO 2000 Safin.
Nadal at the USO does NOT BEAT Safin of the 2000 USO playing the best tennis of his career. He cant even get by Murray
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Jeeze some of you lot are weird...No doubt if 2008 Rafa played Safin of 00 USO final then he would probably loose.
But I bet if they played ten times in 00 Nadal would be at least 6-4 ahead and more likely 7-3....he is just too consistant and focused for Safin.
To try and insult Nadal because he lost to Murray after having a great year is stupid imo especially as he won the olympics on HC and Murray is a top 5 player now....
GameSampras
Banned
Im just bringing a degree of reality here. The Nadal flavor-aid is getting too much to handle just because he won one damn HC slam. WHOOPIDTY DOO!! One HC slam isnt some Hall Of Fame accomplishment. He hasnt proved he is an all time great Hardcourt player just because he won ONE HC slam. If he cant handle Murray at the USO, I dont think he is getting even a set off an on fire Safin at the USO 00 who played probably the best tennis hes ever played.
2000 USO Safin Smokes Nadal at the USO.. PERIOD!!!
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Reread the original question the OP asked, he asked about the whole year not just one match....thats why people are replying as they are!
Nadal is doing fine and WILL be in the HOF....his career isn't over yet.
He is a very good hardcourt player he has 1 Slam, 1 Olympic and a few masters on HC....
He played a bad match at the USO so what?
You're just hating...Safin/Sampras/Fed/Nadal they are all great in their own way.
GameSampras
Banned
Yes.. Nadal should pick up a few wins off Safin circa 00. But not at a HC slam IMO especially the USO.
My problem with Nadal his fanatical fanbase. He wins ONE WIMBELDON and people want to crown his one of the best grass courters ever. He wins ONE AUSTRALIAN and now people want to crown him one of the best HC players ever. It just doesnt work that way. Hes not on Fed or Pete's level yet. Pete dominated Wimby and USO for years and picked up 2 AO's. Fed's dominated the USO, AO, Wimbeldon for years. When Nadal picks up more slams on grass and HC's than he deserves to be in the discussion.
Its too early to be crowning him some GOAT candidate on these surfaces when hes only one 1 of each. Lets see a degree of year after year dominance
LOL at Nadal being the greatest on Grass....or HC....Nadal is a fooking hard worker.....and I'm sure he will win more slams outside of RG but the greatest? No I dont think so.....
I'm sure he will tell you such....
But I dont think Safin was the greatest either.....maybe he could have been but it didnt turn out that way, still one of my very favourites....Even if he did spank Sampras at USO when I was convinced pete would win
The-Champ
Legend
You're not bringing any reality, your speculating, yet again! So, Nadal is a nobody because he only has 1 HC slam, and Safin is a hall of famer because he has 2?
Just because Safin made Sampras look like a club player in that final doesn't mean he would destroy anyone. What happened to those unreturnable 2nd serves of Sampras' anyway?...enlighten us! It's about match ups.
And don't come arguing that Safin will would blast winners off Nadal's serves.
Here's a bit of reality for you... http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/...d/default.asp?playernum1=S741&playernum2=S424
GameSampras
Banned
Safin played his best tennis at the USO 2000. Thats not even debatable. I would put his 2000 USO performance even over his 2005 AO performance to be honest. What happeend to Safin the following year at the USO? He was whooped on in straight sets by Pete. And Its not like Nadal is some great return of serve. And youre right its about matchups. Its also about surfaces and Nadal is not a great fast HC player Nadal has yet to even reach a USO final. Its his weakest surface. Youre telling me he cant even reach a USO final today yet he can put the hammer down on Safin playing the slam of his life? CLUELESS!!!
Yes Safin 2000 USO could eat Nadal's serve alive. Sampras was 10 times the server Nadal is.
I suppose youre going to try and convince me how much a better server Nadal is than Sampras though. LOL
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yep. i mean i love safin hes a great player and enjoying to watch/cheer for. but this board overrates him so badly.
hewitt has probably made better achievements over his career and doesn't even get half the praise safin does here. lol
GameSampras
Banned
I didnt say Nadal was a nobody either. Youre putting words into my mouth. Im saying he hasnt proven himself to be some great Hardcourt and grass court legend. Hes progressing but not some magnificent level that people want to put him on. He has a long ways to go to be mentioned along side some of the all time great grass and HC players. Winning 1 wimbeldon (Imposter Wimbeldon at that) and 1 AO does not make some all time great on these surfaces. He needs years of consistency and dominance at the AO, USO, and Wimbeldon to be on Pete and Fed's level
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anointedone
Banned
Stupid thread. Safin had an extremely good year in 2000 no question, his best year ever. However Safin couldnt even dominate the much weaker 2000 field, heck he couldnt even finish the year ranked #1 in 2000. To anyone who questions that 2000 was a weaker field at the top anyway than 2009, I ask you who would you rather have as your year round biggest rivals: Kuerten and an aging slowed down Sampras, or a prime Nadal and a near prime Federer? Who is a stronger #4 ranked player, Andy Murray or flash in the pan Magnus Norman? Nuff said. This wasnt the Sampras-Agassi era any longer, it was the start of a transition era which would see a player like Hewitt briefly dominate and Johansson, Costa, and a shoulder busted Ivanisevic win slams, while an aged Agassi and Sampras added a few as well. Yet even in 2000 Safin's U.S Open title was his only slam appearance past the quarters, and he almost went out a couple times there before the semis.
A player who 20% of the time could play a near unbeatable match on hard courts would not be anywhere near dominant in todays field, heck he wasnt even in the 2000 field. He wasnt even unbeatable at that 2000 U.S Open in any match except the final. He had to go 5 sets with Grosjean in the 3rd round (someone who can hardly ever buy a set off Federer or even 2005 version of Nadal on any surface), 5 sets with Pozzi of Italy in the 2nd round, 4 sets with some Guardiola guy in the 1st round, and a really tough 4 setter with Kiefer in the quarters. Had he played that U.S Open today instead and played Murray, Djokovic, Roddick, Tsonga, Davydenko, Gulbis, Ferrer, Del Potro, Blake, Nalbandian, Andreev, or many of the other present players on the days of those 4 matches he could have lost to any of them those days and not even been in the final to begin with.
Yes I will concede if Nadal played Safin the day of the 2000 U.S Open final, Safin would definitely win, most probably in straight sets. If Federer played Safin in the U.S Open final that day, especialy since Roger has slowed a bit (though not near as much as Sampras had by 2000) Safin probably still wins. That hypothetical truth only takes him about 5% of the way to dominance of the current mens game though.
A player who 20% of the time could play a near unbeatable match on hard courts would not be anywhere near dominant in todays field, heck he wasnt even in the 2000 field. He wasnt even unbeatable at that 2000 U.S Open in any match except the final. He had to go 5 sets with Grosjean in the 3rd round (someone who can hardly ever buy a set off Federer or even 2005 version of Nadal on any surface), 5 sets with Pozzi of Italy in the 2nd round, 4 sets with some Guardiola guy in the 1st round, and a really tough 4 setter with Kiefer in the quarters. Had he played that U.S Open today instead and played Murray, Djokovic, Roddick, Tsonga, Davydenko, Gulbis, Ferrer, Del Potro, Blake, Nalbandian, Andreev, or many of the other present players on the days of those 4 matches he could have lost to any of them those days and not even been in the final to begin with.
Yes I will concede if Nadal played Safin the day of the 2000 U.S Open final, Safin would definitely win, most probably in straight sets. If Federer played Safin in the U.S Open final that day, especialy since Roger has slowed a bit (though not near as much as Sampras had by 2000) Safin probably still wins. That hypothetical truth only takes him about 5% of the way to dominance of the current mens game though.
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grafrules
Banned
So a player who cant win on grass, cant win on clay, only plays his best 20% of the time, is prone to early upsets much of the time, who is 2-11 or something lifetime vs Federer, and who goes beserk whenever he plays someone who returns alot of his big shots (hint- Nadal is one of the best defensive players in the history of mens tennis) would be able to "dominate" today if he played like he did in any one particular year? Thanks for the laughs, this thread is good comic relief. I love how any past players are glorified to the heavens once they have been gone from their top level for even a few years on TW. I bet once Federer and Nadal retire there will be threads popping up how they would triple bagel whoever the new champions are based on TW logic on players of the past.
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