crystal_clear
Professional
What elements you think are the most important when choosing a coach?
Any experience you would like to share? Thanks.
Any experience you would like to share? Thanks.
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How to choose a coach?
- Thread starter crystal_clear
- Start date
CoachingMastery
Professional
Ask yourself first, what do YOU want to get out of your tennis? This is important because it will help you decide what to look for in a coach.
If you want to reach your potential, play as skillfully as your ability, desire and discipline will allow, you will want to find a pro who teaches for long-term progression and development, not one who simply provides methods for you to hit the ball "successfully" at the moment.
Most skilled play takes much longer to master, and to become familiar with in competitive play, than it takes to employ and feel a "level" of success with simple, mediocre shot-making.
If you only want to play socially, get on a court and hit balls back and forth, the pro you might want is one who can get you to hit for the immediate enjoyment of hitting, limiting frustration and get you learning basic hitting fudamentals that help you coordinate hitting a ball as well as basic strategies.
However, I caution all: many players start out as in the latter example, not really looking to become competitive or skilled, but after they start playing they discover they WANT to get better...but, the problem is if they started playing using inferior--but easier--grips, strokes and footwork patterns, they find changing later to more advanced methods very, very difficult--if not impossible.
So, make sure you understand this and then go out and listen to various pros giving lessons, ask potential pros what their philosophy is, how many players they have taught, how long they have taught, and, if you want a high-performance pro, ask them to validate that they have indeed taken players to the highest of skill levels. (Not necessarily to the pro ranks, but that they should be able to document that they players they train usually reach highly skilled competitive levels.
Good luck.
If you want to reach your potential, play as skillfully as your ability, desire and discipline will allow, you will want to find a pro who teaches for long-term progression and development, not one who simply provides methods for you to hit the ball "successfully" at the moment.
Most skilled play takes much longer to master, and to become familiar with in competitive play, than it takes to employ and feel a "level" of success with simple, mediocre shot-making.
If you only want to play socially, get on a court and hit balls back and forth, the pro you might want is one who can get you to hit for the immediate enjoyment of hitting, limiting frustration and get you learning basic hitting fudamentals that help you coordinate hitting a ball as well as basic strategies.
However, I caution all: many players start out as in the latter example, not really looking to become competitive or skilled, but after they start playing they discover they WANT to get better...but, the problem is if they started playing using inferior--but easier--grips, strokes and footwork patterns, they find changing later to more advanced methods very, very difficult--if not impossible.
So, make sure you understand this and then go out and listen to various pros giving lessons, ask potential pros what their philosophy is, how many players they have taught, how long they have taught, and, if you want a high-performance pro, ask them to validate that they have indeed taken players to the highest of skill levels. (Not necessarily to the pro ranks, but that they should be able to document that they players they train usually reach highly skilled competitive levels.
Good luck.
USPTA certified coaches
A related info:
a link below
provides a list of uspta certified coaches
http://usptafindapro.com/
Some of them,I believe,are in Canada.
A related info:
a link below
provides a list of uspta certified coaches
http://usptafindapro.com/
Some of them,I believe,are in Canada.
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tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
Breast size
MooreTennis
New User
This is a really good point Dave, and it comes down to the coach being able to 'sell' the idea of using the more advanced techniques so that the student can improve while still developing their game for the long term.
Also, make sure that you can get along with the coach - it will work out better for you and also the coach (Im a tennis coach) so that they are giving their full potential to you.
I have gone through several coaches in the last few years. I find that certain coaches are better than others at various aspects of your game. Some emphasis stroke mechanics, whereas others are better at strategy and/or movement. Also, you have to see who's personality you like. some players like a softer coach. Others like yellers for motivation. Try out some coaches and see who you like.
crystal_clear
Professional
Great advice. As an adult player, I just want to play socially and I'd like to improve my game. I am willing to learn new technique and become a better club player.
crystal_clear
Professional
I used to have a coach who has good technique but he likes to hold back and he only taught me a little bit at a time. My current coach tries teaching me everything and I improved a lot. I can't wait for the lessons in the summer.
Perhaps I should try different coaches to learn different style, fitness/strategy/form?
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tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
What CoachingMastery said was good, I'd just add something to it.
Find a coach with who you feel comfortable on the court with. Some coaches love to talk and I not only mean chit chat when picking up balls. I don't mind that to a degree but some coaches feel the need to comment EVERYTHING. Personally I never liked that and I think its wrong. There's always that fine line and some coaches cross it way too much. I don't see anything wrong with encouraging students, tell them on the fly what they're going and so on but the human mind is already cluttered enough on the court and especially at the social level over thinking already.
What I'm trying to say is find someone who you connect with not only where you want your game to go on the court like CoachingMastery said but how he or she gets their message across and if you feel ok with their approach. Try a bunch of different coaches and see who you like best and don't fall into the trap that you feel you have to be loyal to a certain coach just cause you've been with him a number of months and don't wanna hurt his feelings. Cut the cord if its not working, its your money you're paying him right.
Personally I had a few different coaches when I was a junior. I started tennis when I was 5. My first coach when I was about 10. His name was Juan and he was awesome, really helped me out to hit my strokes properly. Throughout juniors I also got the usual bs from coaches saying I should take lessons from them cause they're the ones that would help me blah blah. At 13 I had this guy that barely talked and probably the best coach I've ever seen on technique. The drills he did with me I remember still and use now in my own coaching. He wouldn't talk a lot, but said the right things at the right time and you listened and learned so much in that 1 hour private. Sometimes he wouldn't even say a word and just show me visually, pretty much the Inner Game approach. His greatest analysis was knowing why you were hitting a certain stroke wrong, not seeing the mistake and trying to fix that but why that mistake was occurring. I learned from him that things are always connected to each other in tennis and you kill a number of birds with one stone so to speak.
My main coach has always been my dad though, of course there have been arguments but thats normal with father son coaching haha. Now that I'm 28 the rolls have reversed and I'm coaching him....go figure.
Find a coach with who you feel comfortable on the court with. Some coaches love to talk and I not only mean chit chat when picking up balls. I don't mind that to a degree but some coaches feel the need to comment EVERYTHING. Personally I never liked that and I think its wrong. There's always that fine line and some coaches cross it way too much. I don't see anything wrong with encouraging students, tell them on the fly what they're going and so on but the human mind is already cluttered enough on the court and especially at the social level over thinking already.
What I'm trying to say is find someone who you connect with not only where you want your game to go on the court like CoachingMastery said but how he or she gets their message across and if you feel ok with their approach. Try a bunch of different coaches and see who you like best and don't fall into the trap that you feel you have to be loyal to a certain coach just cause you've been with him a number of months and don't wanna hurt his feelings. Cut the cord if its not working, its your money you're paying him right.
Personally I had a few different coaches when I was a junior. I started tennis when I was 5. My first coach when I was about 10. His name was Juan and he was awesome, really helped me out to hit my strokes properly. Throughout juniors I also got the usual bs from coaches saying I should take lessons from them cause they're the ones that would help me blah blah. At 13 I had this guy that barely talked and probably the best coach I've ever seen on technique. The drills he did with me I remember still and use now in my own coaching. He wouldn't talk a lot, but said the right things at the right time and you listened and learned so much in that 1 hour private. Sometimes he wouldn't even say a word and just show me visually, pretty much the Inner Game approach. His greatest analysis was knowing why you were hitting a certain stroke wrong, not seeing the mistake and trying to fix that but why that mistake was occurring. I learned from him that things are always connected to each other in tennis and you kill a number of birds with one stone so to speak.
My main coach has always been my dad though, of course there have been arguments but thats normal with father son coaching haha. Now that I'm 28 the rolls have reversed and I'm coaching him....go figure.
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crystal_clear
Professional
This makes a lot more sense than "size".
naylor
Semi-Pro
I very much agree with this, sometime quite early on in your learning progression you need a coach who is really good at teaching technique, and in particular teaches it in the way you do your best learning. And often, you learn certain bits best visually, some others by having your hand held through the swingpath in slow motion, etc. so the coach has to be able to change methods to find the one that works for you on that particular issue. Other key things are drills to bed the technique in properly and also not just fixing mistakes, but finding and fixing the real (technical) cause of the mistake.
I don't think many of us are blessed with perfect technique - by which I mean swing, plus footwork plus shot selection - so for all of us there's plenty of scope for "training to improve". A good coach must give you a good appreciation of how much scope for improvement you have early on, but then must take you there at a speed where the bits that you're learning do stick (and some do stick a lot quicker than others, and your learning speed might also increase as you improve technically and overall).
Just ordered both, look forward to a good read and plenty of learning!
Tomek_tennis
New User
As a tennis coach I teach different depending on the age and goals. But some principles are universal:
- basic, "core" technique must be teached from beginning
- training should give positive feelings to the participians
- exercises should be well suited to the levell of the player
- use technique training as a means to learning tactics and match play
Lately I am trying to make players play points, rallys as much as possible. Even with beginners. But all the time I encourage proper technique. So for example I will show how to play a running forehand, feed a basket, and then next exercise will incorporate running forehand and playing a point.
If you want to get the most od social aspects of the game, from the beginning your coach should teach you how to serve (and when you have basic groundstroke technique) and how to return so that you can start plying matches.
Most people here encourage very strict technique training. I am all for proper mechanics, but lesson (and tennis) has just more to it...
- basic, "core" technique must be teached from beginning
- training should give positive feelings to the participians
- exercises should be well suited to the levell of the player
- use technique training as a means to learning tactics and match play
Lately I am trying to make players play points, rallys as much as possible. Even with beginners. But all the time I encourage proper technique. So for example I will show how to play a running forehand, feed a basket, and then next exercise will incorporate running forehand and playing a point.
If you want to get the most od social aspects of the game, from the beginning your coach should teach you how to serve (and when you have basic groundstroke technique) and how to return so that you can start plying matches.
Most people here encourage very strict technique training. I am all for proper mechanics, but lesson (and tennis) has just more to it...
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
This makes a lot more sense than "size".
haha yea it does. Well I didn't want to answer your question at the time and wanted to put in a smarta$$ remark
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Slicendicer
Guest
Find a coach who can actually play tennis at a high level and/or execute the "shots" he/she is trying to teach you. I have had coaches who couldn't hit a 2H-BH try to teach me... impossible. If you don't have it, you can't teach it.
Find a coach you respect enough to listen to and who will challenge you each and every practice. If you want a goober with a Gilligan hat who plays 3.5 tennis to say.. "good shot, nice stroke... blah, blah..." then get this... but if you really want to improve, the work has to be done by you and must be conducted by a capable coach.
Find a coach you respect enough to listen to and who will challenge you each and every practice. If you want a goober with a Gilligan hat who plays 3.5 tennis to say.. "good shot, nice stroke... blah, blah..." then get this... but if you really want to improve, the work has to be done by you and must be conducted by a capable coach.
Djokovicfan4life
Legend
Good post. I agree that there is too much focus on the short term result in tennis. Who cares if that kick I'm working on actually had topspin, as long as it went in. :roll:
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
If a coach has a one hander doesn't mean he's incapable of teaching how to hit a proper two hander but anyways being able to play at a good level should almost be a given....unless you're Nick Bollettieri
goober
Legend
I wonder if Nick B would really be an effective coach for a middle age 3.5 player? I would guess probably not.
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Slicendicer
Guest
We disagree. If you can't use the proper mechanics of a groundstroke, you can not effectively teach said groundstroke... my opinion. Would you take your car to a mechanic who read a book about your car's engine, or a mechanic who works on your specific car? Do I pay a coach who can't volley to teach me how to volley because he "understands" what it takes to hit the volley? Nope. You must be able to apply the lessons in order to teach them.
Nick B. is surrounded by former/current pro's who teach the academy... Nick's name is iconic.
Djokovicfan4life
Legend
That all depends on the student. Some can learn from simply being told how to execute a stroke. Others need a visual to push them in the right direction. As a coach, it's a good idea to be able to execute the strokes yourself, but it's not always necessary. In fact, sometimes what the student sees is completely different from what they THINK they see. Like when LeeD says that Sampras takes a four foot backswing on his backhand volley, haha!
Matt
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
So by your opinion, a coach has to be able to execute a one hander and a two hander properly in order to be able to teach both? Sorry, doesn't happen and doesn't need to happen. Then that would mean 99% of the coaches out there are incapable by your standards.
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Slicendicer
Guest
Doesn't happen? You are basing this on your experience, not mine. 99% is a bit high... probably like 50% of coaches have no business coaching tennis.
If you can't do something, how can you teach someone to do what you can not do? I understand your counter-point, it is not based in logic... it is emotional.
The answer to the OP is whoever you are comfortable with and as long as you are getting something from practice/lessons.
If you want my money, you better have something relevant to teach and be able to execute what you teach... but I am past taking lessons, and my standards are high.
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Slicendicer
Guest
Hey Matt... I've coached 1 on 1 dozens of kids and in groups hundreds of kids... no kid learns stroke production being told how to execute... it really doesn't work that way. Verbal instruction is part of it, like 20%... then 30% physical mechanics (showing the student how to hit the ball), then 50% repetition, in form of exercises to promote proper mechanics and rallying. I am making the percentages on the fly, but the idea is true to form.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
Doesn't happen? You are basing this on your experience, not mine. 99% is a bit high... probably like 50% of coaches have no business coaching tennis.
If you can't do something, how can you teach someone to do what you can not do? I understand your counter-point, it is not based in logic... it is emotional.
The answer to the OP is whoever you are comfortable with and as long as you are getting something from practice/lessons.
If you want my money, you better have something relevant to teach and be able to execute what you teach... but I am past taking lessons, and my standards are high.
Sorry but you have a completely wrong idea about coaching. No tennis coach can teach everything I agree with that, but what you're talking about is unrealistic and I'd like to hear if you've ever found any coaches which you speak of who can hit a one hander or a two hander flawlessly and at the same level. What would you be willing to pay such a coach? I'll say again, a coach doesn't need to be able to hit a perfect 2 hander for example to know the fundamentals, correct mistakes and to make that players stroke better etc. I hate to use him as an example, but Nick B. is one such person as was a coach I had when I was a teen. Amazing at technique, didn't matter what game you played and a lot of juniors in the area would take privates from him, and I'm not talking about hacks here. I agree there are coaches in the industry who shouldn't be there but thats like anywhere else. It happens.
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Slicendicer
Guest
Flawless??... perfect?? Who ever said that... not me. Maybe you are putting words out of context.
My coach was a 1H-BH player and taught me 2H-BH and 1H-BH, since it is really the same stroke. Joe could hit either 1 or 2 hand BH, hence he was able to teach either stroke. I fine-tuned my BH, as best as I could, hitting work outs with Mikael Perfors, a 2H-BH player.
The point is, it's not about right/wrong... my opinion is not going to change... a coach can not effectively teach a "shot" he/she can not hit. This is from my experience in the largest tennis community in the world, surrounded by world class tennis players, college players, and juniors. If your idea is different, I encourage you to go with it.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
A one handed backhand and 2 handed backhand are not the same stroke. Contact point is completely different, as is the balance and so on. What is your experience? I'm not being a ***** here just curious.
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Slicendicer
Guest
Sure it is... subscribe to your own system of tennis... I'll believe me.
Contact point different? Maybe for you, not me or any players I've hit with, trained with, or coached. No offense taken.
LuckyR
Legend
As usual, great advice, but the greatest part of the advice is buried at the bottom. After all, if you aren't looking to move from a beginner/junior to collegiate or better, what difference does it make? You could make the argument that if your goals are shorter than college, then you don't need a coach at all, necessarily.
The key is results, pure and simple. If the guy has coached plenty of players to the top echelon, great. If not, call me back when you have.
Peter Bodo spent a day with Nick at his academy and documented it in the latest issue of Tennis mag. Though it is true that the grunt work is done by the coaches, Nick will often provide unique insights, even though he is not a good player. And these insights are for world-class juniors, so it is not trivial stuff. Or at least that is what it seemed from the article.
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Slicendicer
Guest
Peter Bodo is a dolt. Maybe go take a lesson from Joe Dinefer, I'm sure he can give your game the kick in the pants it needs.
This is sorta like when I worked for a carpenter, doing finish carpentry. The guy was a master, truly none better at the trade. He and a few other guys would make fun of Bob Villa. Here's a guy who is the face of Sears/Craftsmen tools and home remodeling... and he doesn't know **** about what he is doing or carpentry... in a practical sense. I watched a couple of Villa's show... they were right on... Villa's "tips" were so ********, I laughed. There's an analogy there...
Yes, quite often, the "acknowledged masters" are really smoke and mirrors, and have a technical expert behind the scenes.
BelaKaroly cannot do any kind of giant swing, yet could teach gymnastics quite well. He was trained as a soccer player.
Quite often, a really good player is a poor teacher. He's got natural skills, or not, and is a really good player. But teaching means MORE than just X's and Y's. It's inspiration, dedication, foresight, the ability to recognise different ideas and techniques, and all dat jazzz..... I don't teach nobody nuttin....
BelaKaroly cannot do any kind of giant swing, yet could teach gymnastics quite well. He was trained as a soccer player.
Quite often, a really good player is a poor teacher. He's got natural skills, or not, and is a really good player. But teaching means MORE than just X's and Y's. It's inspiration, dedication, foresight, the ability to recognise different ideas and techniques, and all dat jazzz..... I don't teach nobody nuttin....
crystal_clear
Professional
The player who imitates Nick B. the best is Tommy Hass and I think his forehand ground stroke is very ugly.
crystal_clear
Professional
Well, a lefty coach can teach a righty student forehand groundstroke and he/she doesn't have to change to a righty coach first...
Hey well I can hit a 1H topsin backhand or slice and a 2h topsin backhand. I've also got a regular forehand and a 2h forehand and a slice forehand.
A platform serve and a step up serve. Oh yeah I have a lefty 2 hander also. And they are all pretty incredible!
Anybody want lessons?
You'll have to learn the lefty forehand on your own though!
A platform serve and a step up serve. Oh yeah I have a lefty 2 hander also. And they are all pretty incredible!
Anybody want lessons?
You'll have to learn the lefty forehand on your own though!
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Slicendicer
Guest
Striking the ball and the mechanical process is what is being taught. Righty/lefty is of no importance. I played tennis for almost a year left handed while recoop-ing from TE injury. Because the strokes are the same, I was able to practice and actually play some doubles matches at 3.5 level... left-handed.
The R 2H-BH is a L FH or a R 1H-BH... and vice-versa... it's all the same.
2H-BH vs 1H-BH
1H BH does NOT have to be the "same" as 2H BH
i.e there couple of variations of 2H BH called bent/bent ,bent/straight etc
there are multiple variations of 1H BH to some extent combined
with different grips/size of takebacks
A lot depends how good is a left hand of a righty ( say)
see
the latest issue of tennis about a backhand by Wozniacki
A minor comment irrelevant to a main thought of your post-
1H BH does NOT have to be the "same" as 2H BH
i.e there couple of variations of 2H BH called bent/bent ,bent/straight etc
there are multiple variations of 1H BH to some extent combined
with different grips/size of takebacks
A lot depends how good is a left hand of a righty ( say)
see
the latest issue of tennis about a backhand by Wozniacki
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S
Slicendicer
Guest
Agree... nothing has to be the same. We developed a system which the fundamental mechanics of the swing allows for every groundstroke to virtually the same thru contact. Bent/straight/different grips... that to me is aesthetic or stylistic. The crux is swing plane to contact to follow thru. This is my understanding.
Who is we?
Hi,
not sure who is we.
Additionally some claim that followthrough matters
at least in terms of power and placement
Hi,
not sure who is we.
Additionally some claim that followthrough matters
at least in terms of power and placement
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tennisdude42
Rookie
Another thing I would look for, although not related to tennis, is whether or not the coach is a good person or super uptight about money. The coach I have right now is a very nice guy. He gives balls to dogs and little kids passing by our court, doesn't end the lesson at EXACTLY the time it's suppose to end, is very flexible about schedule changes, and didn't yell at me when I forgot to pay once. He also seems to genuinely care about my growth as a player. He gives me a lot of advice about what I should do outside of practice to reinforce what I've learned and even lent me a basket of balls to practice my serve. He's not the type of coach who's like "you got what you payed for now **** off." Although my coach is only average in terms of teaching, I would rather have one who's nice. Before, I had another coach who did really professional drills and could really improve my game but he was an a-hole who seemed to do the job only for money. That being said, definately try to choose a coach who can both improve your game AND you can develop a friendship with.
tennisdude42
Rookie
Yeah there's a lot of coaches that can do that but I'm saying that because you're gonna see him every week you should pick one who's not an a-hole.
maverick66
Hall of Fame
for me it was about respect. if i didnt respect the guy it wasnt going to work. and i have had some coaches that knew what they were talking about but i had no respect for them as a person and wouldnt listen to a word they said. the thing with tennis is the coach-player relationship is so important cause your the only 2 on the court. theres no one else to be the go between.
S
Slicendicer
Guest
Follow through has little to do with "power" and everything to do with the "type" of shot you want to hit... placement... sorta... spin and reaction is a more like it. These are my ideas... if you think otherwise... then you are right. I'm not going to argue with a USPTA... you probably have your own system to teach or a USPTA system.
Just for the record
I appreciate your comments.
I do NOT claim to be right.
Nice to exchange thoughts.
Thank you again.
Slicendicer,
I appreciate your comments.
I do NOT claim to be right.
Nice to exchange thoughts.
Thank you again.
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Slicendicer
Guest
Haha.. no problem... I didn't mean to sound rude if I did, I realize my opinion and ideas are at times out there to say the least. Thanks Julian.
crystal_clear
Professional
Agree~ Attitude is everything.
My former coach only taught me a little bit at a time in order to keep me as a long time or permanent student. He answered my questions like, “This is too advanced to you (how to handle a high ball?)… You don’t have the strength to learn that. (how to do backhand slice volley at the net?)” He has no interest to help me to improve my game and he only has interest in money. Besides, he was constantly late 5-10 minutes almost every lesson without any apology or compensation.
I thought I was the only one complained but recently I heard several people complained the same thing. I regret that I didn’t stop the lessons right away as I was too polite and I was afraid to hurt his feelings.
