Hawkeye Line Dispute, In Our Out? [video]

Gee Willikers Batman! · May 15, 2009

Here is the situation:

GWB to 2nd serve, Michael returns down the line:

BALL IN? (He says its on the INSIDE of the singles line)

OR

BALL OUT? (Ken says its on the OUTSIDE of the singles line (alley)

(Watch the slow-mo's as well)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY_7M2Ctt4g

Post a comment regarding your position.

This is all for fun.

- GWB

RoddickAce · May 15, 2009

I say it was in, but not inside of the sideline. It seemed to either catch the outside of the line or was right on the line.

cam2 · May 15, 2009

Looks like it was in but hard to tell from the angle. Either way I can tell by servers reaction he wasn't sure if it was out but called it out regardless, not what the rules say to do, lol.

Gee Willikers Batman! · May 15, 2009

cam2 said:
Looks like it was in but hard to tell from the angle. Either way I can tell by servers reaction he wasn't sure if it was out but called it out regardless, not what the rules say to do, lol.

Watch the video again, the server (me) does not hesitate to call it out.

Regardless from whether it was in or out, play was immediately stopped because we both started saying "CAMERA IS RECORDING! WE HAVE HAWKEYE!" and start laughing. All in fun.

cam2 · May 15, 2009

No prob, my first instinct was that there was a hesitation but maybe I was biased by the slo-mo :twisted:. What did your opponent think after checking the tape?

Gee Willikers Batman! · May 15, 2009

He was like

"ITS IN ITS IN ITS IN!!!!!!" ahaha

ronalditop · May 15, 2009

To me it was IN without a doubt.

acehole · May 15, 2009

dude, thats crazy. i'm gonna seriously start recording every match. hawkeye, no doubt. but that ball was good!

Ambivalent · May 15, 2009

Definately caught some line.

joshburger · May 15, 2009

iiiiinnnnnnn

BullDogTennis · May 15, 2009

deff in. you cheated your friend. and i take it YOUR the only one who voted "it was out"

Gee Willikers Batman! · May 15, 2009

BullDogTennis said:
deff in. you cheated your friend. and i take it YOUR the only one who voted "it was out"

For one, this was a recorded match for fun, and second, we had a good laugh about this while watching the video. In the full video unedited, you can hear us saying "HAWKEYE!!!!!!!!!!!" It's all in good fun, so it doesn't really matter if it was in or not, we were just having fun.

ramseszerg · May 15, 2009

It fell right on the line.

whoopinstick · May 15, 2009

99% out 100% in.....just another stupid saying

BobFL · May 15, 2009

it was in....

nyc · May 15, 2009

def in ....

SystemicAnomaly · May 15, 2009

I believe that people here are being deceived by this camera angle. The angle presented makes this ball look IN. However, from years of experience, I can tell that this is not as clear cut as it appears at all. The ball might have clipped the line but I seriously doubt that it squarely hit the line a some posters seem to think. In fact, I'll go further than that -- the ball did NOT squarely hit the line. The OUT call is totally justified but I can see a case for calling it either way.

Nanshiki · May 15, 2009

Based on the video alone, calling it out is totally unjustified.

When in doubt, it's in. Period.

imalil2gangsta4u · May 15, 2009

Way too close to call, and from this angle most things will appear to be in. I would have just said in and moved on.

iamgoat · May 15, 2009

SystemicAnomaly said:
I believe that people here are being deceived by this camera angle. The angle presented makes this ball look IN. However, from years of experience, I can tell that this is not as clear cut as it appears at all. The ball might have clipped the line but I seriously doubt that it squarely hit the line a some posters seem to think. In fact, I'll go further than that -- the ball did NOT squarely hit the line. The OUT call is totally justified but I can see a case for calling it either way.

captain obvious to the rescue!!!

imalil2gangsta4u · May 15, 2009

iamgoat said:
captain obvious to the rescue!!!

haha, funny

Gee Willikers Batman! · May 15, 2009

You guys are saying "if in doubt" call it in, there was no doubt, the ball was out, but the angle at which we took the video made it unclear and made it look like it clipped the outside part of the line, (some actually say it hit the line, like dead on, wackos)

If this was in a tournament, it would still be out because there was no doubt, however if I had to "think about it" I would most definitely call it in.

sh@de · May 16, 2009

I can't tell from the vid. It looks in, but like SA said, if you look at the angle, it really could be out. I can't judge. + i voted out for the fun of it

.

SystemicAnomaly · May 16, 2009

iamgoat said:
captain obvious to the rescue!!!

And yet, if my observations are so obvious, then why are so many people here so certain that the shot was IN and on the line?

Nanshiki said:
Based on the video alone, calling it out is totally unjustified.

When in doubt, it's in. Period.

However, GWB's perspective was not the same as the camera's vantage point -- another obvious observation. From what I see in this video, GWB proably had a better vantage point than the camera did.

beckham · May 16, 2009

I believe the ball clipped the outside of the line and is in.

Call: Overturned

Storm_Kyori · May 16, 2009

SystemicAnomaly said:
However, GWB's perspective was not the same as the camera's vantage point -- another obvious observation. From what I see in this video, GWB proably had a better vantage point than the camera did.

Yeah, he has a better view than we do with "Sideline Eye". I thought it was in at first, but once I started paying more attention, it's close. The angle of the camera makes you think it's way in and the speed at first sells it, but I paused at :42 and the ball imo, is out. Not even on the line or inside, just outside. Where did your friend hit that from?

Lotto · May 16, 2009

Its too hard to tell with the camera angle......I would say it MIGHT have caught the line but it could have been out just as easily.....the data provided is inconclusive to say the least.

Nanshiki · May 16, 2009

Gee Willikers Batman! said:
You guys are saying "if in doubt" call it in, there was no doubt, the ball was out, but the angle at which we took the video made it unclear and made it look like it clipped the outside part of the line, (some actually say it hit the line, like dead on, wackos)

If this was in a tournament, it would still be out because there was no doubt, however if I had to "think about it" I would most definitely call it in.

No doubt meaning you really, really wanted it to be out, or no doubt meaning you could clearly see doubles alley between the line and the ball?

Gee Willikers Batman! · May 16, 2009

Storm_Kyori said:
Yeah, he has a better view than we do with "Sideline Eye". I thought it was in at first, but once I started paying more attention, it's close. The angle of the camera makes you think it's way in and the speed at first sells it, but I paused at :42 and the ball imo, is out. Not even on the line or inside, just outside. Where did your friend hit that from?

Looks we have a winner with the knowledge of vantage points.

For those who haven't got it figured out: Pause at 00:42, even with the vantage point of the camera, it is clearly seen out.

rbq4h4 · May 16, 2009

Gee Willikers Batman! said:
Watch the video again, the server (me) does not hesitate to call it out.

Regardless from whether it was in or out, play was immediately stopped because we both started saying "CAMERA IS RECORDING! WE HAVE HAWKEYE!" and start laughing. All in fun.

What is a hawkeye?

Deleted member 25923 · May 16, 2009

looked out to me

sh@de · May 16, 2009

^ My eye is hawkeye

.

Hot Sauce · May 16, 2009

Looks out to me.

Nanshiki · May 16, 2009

If it looks out to any of you in that video, you need to go back and learn the rules of tennis.

I'm not saying it's in or out (it's extremely close), but based on the video alone (assuming GWB hadn't actually seen the shot), you would HAVE to call it in, based on the rules of tennis.

FWIW, Hawkeye is based on six different cameras all tracking the ball's trajectory (not looking where it lands), with probably 10 times the resolution and two or three times the frame rate... so understandably it's a bit more reliable than a single pocket camera.

iamgoat · May 16, 2009

SystemicAnomaly said:
And yet, if my observations are so obvious, then why are so many people here so certain that the shot was IN and on the line?

because we all factored this in.

kaibaNYC06 · May 16, 2009

It's pretty funny how ppl are so certain the ball is in. From that camera angle it's too hard to make an accurate calling on such a close shot. :???:

mucat · May 16, 2009

Hawkeye said footfault and 2.0 at most.

SystemicAnomaly · May 17, 2009

iamgoat said:
because we all factored this in.

NOPE, you're wrong about this. I do not believe that very many people on page 1 did so at all. It appears that many made a very rash judgment -- some even declared that the ball was squarely on the line, which it was not. Therefore the "obvious" (to you & I) really needed to be stated. As a result, I am changing my name to Captain Lucid.

Nanshiki said:
If it looks out to any of you in that video, you need to go back and learn the rules of tennis.

I'm not saying it's in or out (it's extremely close), but based on the video alone (assuming GWB hadn't actually seen the shot), you would HAVE to call it in, based on the rules of tennis.

FWIW, Hawkeye is based on six different cameras all tracking the ball's trajectory (not looking where it lands), with probably 10 times the resolution and two or three times the frame rate... so understandably it's a bit more reliable than a single pocket camera.

True. I see the point that you are trying to make. On 1st viewing of the video, one might have to concede the ball IN, however...

The rules of tennis do not say that this call should be made on the basis of this camera angle. However, if this camera angle were the only criteria for the call, then it might be inconclusive at first and the decision might favor an IN call. However, closer inspection of the video reveals that the ball appears to be OUT. (Study the video at 0:42).

The point is moot. Since this camera angle is not really the true criteria for making this call for GWB, then the rules of tennis do not demand an IN call.

BTW, the Hawkeye system switched from a 6 camera setup to a 10 camera setup more than 2 years ago.

Gee Willikers Batman! · May 17, 2009

SystemicAnomaly said:
NOPE, you're wrong about this. I do not believe that very many people on page 1 did so at all. It appears that many made a very rash judgment -- some even declared that the ball was squarely on the line, which it was not. Therefore the "obvious" (to you & I) really needed to be stated. As a result, I am changing my name to Captain Lucid.

True. I see the point that you are trying to make. On 1st viewing of the video, one might have to concede the ball IN, however...

The rules of tennis do not say that this call should be made on the basis of this camera angle. However, if this camera angle were the only criteria for the call, then it might be inconclusive at first and the decision might favor an IN call. However, closer inspection of the video reveals that the ball appears to be OUT. (Study the video at 0:42).

The point is moot. Since this camera angle is not really the true criteria for making this call for GWB, then the rules of tennis do not demand an IN call.

BTW, the Hawkeye system switched from a 6 camera setup to a 10 camera setup more than 2 years ago.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

LuckyR · May 17, 2009

On regular speed the looks like it hit on the inside edge of the line, on slow motion it definitely did not hit on the inside edge of the line (it landed farther out from there). But on slow motion you can't tell exactly where it did land.

fluffy Beaver · May 17, 2009

Gee Willikers Batman! said:
Watch the video again, the server (me) does not hesitate to call it out.

Regardless from whether it was in or out, play was immediately stopped because we both started saying "CAMERA IS RECORDING! WE HAVE HAWKEYE!" and start laughing. All in fun.

I don't understand how you can say you didn't hesitate to call the ball out, your hand came up very slowly and it just didn't looks like confidence in your call.....

And when are you gonna post some match play vids so we can see what a 4.5 looks like?

Gee Willikers Batman! · May 17, 2009

fluffy Beaver said:
I don't understand how you can say you didn't hesitate to call the ball out, your hand came up very slowly and it just didn't looks like confidence in your call.....

And when are you gonna post some match play vids so we can see what a 4.5 looks like?

That is how fast I always call balls. I do not call the ball before it lands as some of my friends do which annoy me. I wait until the ball lands, have a good look, and call. I was sure of the call.

And I will post some matchplay videos from behind as soon as I can find my good tripod, and a hitting partner willing to come out one day.

Hawkeye Line Dispute, In Our Out? [video]

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