Okay, but how do you know he has played with it? Not being an arse, but just wondering.
What are the specs, I'm sure EVERYONE here is dying to know weight and balance...oh, and is the string spacing EXACTLY the same as retail?
Waiting with bated breath...
His grip looks so much cleaner/neater than the other.. How does he wrap it different?
So conclusion is he puts in some 4 grams more in the handle - when playing on clay, moving the balance some 3 mm down? Seems logical if so. Same SW not to disturb the swing but some more power from the parallel (not angular) movement of the racquet in the groundies - on clay that is.
No, with 367g or 363g, the bp would be from 31.6 to 31.9.
I think it could change the bp acording to his likes/needs, not acording to the static weight of the frame. But I can't confirm this.
So, the swingweight could change by a few points.
Until someone has measurements proving the opposite I believe the delta lead, or other weight, goes in the handle. Look above at ARTs answer where he says explicitly "No" and then 367 or 363 (that's going downwards) with balance from 31,6 to 31,9 (that's going upwards). That would then mean either 367 g / 31,6 cm or/to 363 g 31,9 cm (removing lead from the handle). This in its turn makes 362 g / 32 cm on grass very probable (removing yet a g from the handle). The slower and more high bouncing surfaces the more lead in the handle to be able to get the plow through and put pace and direction on slower high balls. Putting the diff of 4 grams in at 12 in the head would change the SW some 12 points. SW you don't want to change back and forth that much because it influences timing too much.
C'mon guys, have a little faith, I was at work yesterday so I could only get round to posting the pics this weekend, afterall I gotta take the photos first right? Anyway, here are photos, Roger's racquet is the one on the left (I added the Federer photo with him holding his racquet for a bit of a comparison).
Now you guys are all set...just get some K90's built to Fed's spec and you will be on the futures circuit by next week...seriously, you will...I mean it...I am not kidding...
One of the OP's pics shows the color of the leather grip slightly bleeding into the white overgrip. Guess Fed likes the feel of having the stiffer leather under the overgrip. Personally, I replace the leather grip & go with the softer Wilson TrueGrip and no overgrip. That leather grip is tough on the hand, even with an overgrip on it.
No, he puts lead in the head on clay, moving the balance up. Go back and read the thread. Also, ArtArt just reported from Wimbledon that Roger's strung racquets came out at 32.0 cm balance and 353 swingweight (one or two pages back), which means that he's adding weight in head on grass as well (about 4 grams under the bumper). We do know that Priority One added weight in the head (under bumper) on hardcourts at Indian Wells as well, but not how much. I posted previously that an old German magazine said he played his frames stock on grass (31.5cm) added a little on hard courts and more on clay (32.0cm) back in 2003.
It looks like he may have changed that up since he's adding lead on grass and hardcourts this year. As far as I know no one got hold of his frames at Roland Garros, so we don't know if he added more or less lead than at Wimbledon, but since he used to add more on clay we can assume, I suppose, that he did this year as well. Which means he may be playing with a higher swingweight and longer balance on all surfaces than he did 3 or 4 years ago.
It's worth noting that in order to achieve a consistent result, they may be adding slightly different amounts of lead under either/both the bumper or the handle for each racquet. Since every racquet coming off the line is slightly different, it will require slightly different additions to each one to get them to achieve the exact matched specs. Obviously Fed's frames come much more closely matched from the factory than the standard k90's, because Wilson's quality control is notoriously bad, but there is still a slight variation between frames, which is one of the reasons that people go to customizers. So a hard, fast rule, such as "he adds 4g to the head" will never always be accurate. Rather, once the desired specs are determined, the tech then adds slightly varying amounts of lead to various locations to match weight, balance and swingweight.
According to some inside info, all rackets made "only" for TOP atp players, are made with zero tolerance, yes zero error in specs.
So players only add the same amount of lead in the same place, for all rackets.
The prodution line for atp players,is not the same that we can buy on the market, not even close.
The materials used aren't the same either.
So, this is like motor/cars sports, what you can buy in stores, aren't even close for what they use in competition.
We can measure specs, weight, swingweight, balance point, but the "material" of those frames, is totaly different.
This is for the top players, challenger players can't get those frames, only top players.
If you get one racket from Fed or from Haas, Novack, ... , and go play with it, you will see how different that racket is...
You have here a post from RYU, that if you can read it well... you will notice that he donesn't want that the guy that get a Fed racket, play with it... why? ... they all are in the business($$$), so regular guys shouldn't know the truth about pro's rackets.
... it's all about the $$$...
Cheers
You have here a post from RYU, that if you can read it well... you will notice that he donesn't want that the guy that get a Fed racket, play with it... why? ... they all are in the business($$$), so regular guys shouldn't know the truth about pro's rackets.
... it's all about the $$$...
Cheers
So Ron, it sounds like in essence what you're saying is that Federer's racquet will feel just like a stock retail K90 with some lead tape added to the hoop, correct?As for what that racquet will feel like if he does hit it? It will feel like we all expect it to. Its a racquet with not a lot of power, and one with a pretty small sweet spot. Granted, when you do hit it in the sweet spot, it will feel amazing. Unfortunately for me, I usually only can hit the sweet spot about 1 out of 10 times!
Hey Art...I appreciate the reply. However, I've personally been inside Wilson's Pro Room (as well as a few other companies'), and am very familiar with the inner workings of pro racquet customization. It's certainly true that many companies (including Wilson) provide special production for their pros with vastly different tolerances than are available to the general market. However, there's no such thing as "zero tolerance", even if they try to achieve that. It's a myth. The laws of physics simply prevent it. So even the most carefully managed production line has a little inherent variation. Even if weight, flex and various parameters exactly match, it would be like winning the lottery to have EVERY spec match off the line. As soon as you change one, you often change another. This is why, even in the pro rooms, they often make racquets slightly under spec (in terms of weight, SW, etc.), so they can tweak the last little bit to make everything match. Those final tweaks are done frame by frame, using after market materials, such as lead, etc. That's why I was saying that just adding a very specific amount of weight to the same place on all of someone's frames isn't a totally accurate way of representing how the frames are prepared. After all, if everything came of the line 100% to spec, you wouldn't need to do that, either.Also, while I'm addressing your post, it's worth knowing that while the tolerances, and also the variety of materials available, are far better than what we can buy in a store, the world of professional tennis racquets isn't really comparable to motor sports equipment. While professional riders/drivers are essentially using very different technology from what civilians use on the road, the tennis racquets of the pros employ the same exact technologies (in fact they usually use older models on which to base their layups) that standard production racquets use. The idea of the pros having special, "souped up" or "high tech" racquets isn't accurate. The pros racquets are notable for their fine tolerances, and their ability to match one frame to dozens of others, but not for using different materials or techniques than regular racquets. So aside from weight, flex and balance, the pros racquets are actually VERY similar to what you can buy in stores, or, more accurately, to what you could buy in stores at some point in the last 20 years. For what it's worth, it's the differences in flex (often lower), weight and balance that make Novak's racquet feel different from the types of frames you can buy in a store. And Fed's is VERY, VERY close to a stock frame.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure you have it backwards when you said: <<We can measure specs, weight, swingweight, balance point, but the "material" of those frames, is totaly (sic) different.>>
It's actually the specs (e.g. weight, SW, balance, and RA/flex pattern) that are quite different from ours, while the "material" is for all practical purposes exactly the same as consumer technologies, and older ones at that.
Hope this helps you separate the truths from the conspiracy theories in pro racquet production.
So Ron, it sounds like in essence what you're saying is that Federer's racquet will feel just like a stock retail K90 with some lead tape added to the hoop, correct?
I'm not sure if it will feel just like a stock retail K90 because I've never hit with one.
Yes, but it destroys the illusion that we would all be 7.0 players if we could just get that special pro room frame with the custom unobtainium layup!This is very true, good post!
OK, thanks Ron.I'm not sure if it will feel just like a stock retail K90 because I've never hit with one.
Yes, but it destroys the illusion that we would all be 7.0 players if we could just get that special pro room frame with the custom unobtainium layup!
Hey drakulie, Rajeev Ram just won the Newport event today with his trusty K6-1 Tour 90.
Its also interesting to me that it looks like Roger's racket is strung on what seems like a 2 piece box pattern. Im not sure if this is an accurate assumption but thats what it looks like to me. I also apologize if someone has already pointed it out i havent read through the entire thread yet. It also looks like the headsize on Roger's racket is slightly bigger than the other K90 but that could just be from the parallax error of where the picture was taken from
Ok dumb question here - no one yell at me - obviously the difference btw 1 and 2 pieces is 2 or 4 knots but HOW can you tell he prefers the box pattern? Just a simple question
Ha ha ha....That's got to be the understatement of the year!Well, I'm probably just as dumb as you because I'm not even sure how to string a "2 piece box pattern" when all the mains are one type of string, and all the crosses are of another type. I mean, how can you "box" this type setup?
Could someone please enlighten me? FYI, I'm a somewhat experienced stringer.
Well, I'm probably just as dumb as you because I'm not even sure how to string a "2 piece box pattern" when all the mains are one type of string, and all the crosses are of another type. I mean, how can you "box" this type setup?
Could someone please enlighten me? FYI, I'm a somewhat experienced stringer.
I don't know you might say that it is a little illusion but looks like Fed's racket head width is larger than the stock one. My previous picture analysis of his racket's from close-up shows that his racket is more round than the stock. Of course I cannot prove it 100% from the pics. The reason might be that he was mishitting a lot. Make it wider rather than longer head size and same width size as stock would have reduced those incidents happened with his N88 I assume he was mishitting the balls mainly due to the smaller head width rather than having shorter head lenght. Maybe his racket head lenght is shorter than stock and a wider size equalized the 90 sq. We don't know. Of course we cannot exactly tell from the pics. If the racket head lenght is the same and it is little wider then it is definately 92-93 sq rather than 90 sq. If FabFed can put the tip of the rackets on top of each other and tell us the lenght and width difference that might explains it once in for all. I assume that his racket width might be 2-3mm wider in both sides. We have to check it to make sure. But my personal feeling is that his racket is little larger than 90 sq overall and that has been said it has a wider racket head than the stock version. And my second gues is his racket head lenght is little shorter and still has a wider head size making it 90 sq. total head area with more round look than ellipse as in stock version. Thanks again FabFed.
C'mon guys, have a little faith, I was at work yesterday so I could only get round to posting the pics this weekend, afterall I gotta take the photos first right? Anyway, here are photos, Roger's racquet is the one on the left (I added the Federer photo with him holding his racquet for a bit of a comparison).
Both racquets are identical in head size and shape. In the photos they appear to be different. And they are! But you should judge them unstrung. Take that for granted!
I've been going through my archives of posts about what Fed's racquet measurements could be. Since I believe it was mentioned that FABFED's racquet is from Monte Carlo -on clay- with 365g weight I believe the racquets balance to be 32cm based on this post from ART ART.
Quote:
"Hi again, has you remenber last year I posted here Fed setup, from RG, so this morning before his match agaisn't the russian, we have here some rackets from him, to be strung in a range bettween 23/21.5 Kilos - 20/18.5 kilos, we have measure one of those rackets strung @22/20.5 kilos, so here it goes:
RDC: 68
Weight: 367gr
Balance point: 31.8cm from the but cap
Wilson Gut 1.25mm/AluPower 1.25mm
Wilson overgrip.
This racket seems to be a regular kfactor 90", no lead added under the grommets, we have check it, but we couldn't check it under the grip
Please do not ask names of the people working here, I´m sure you can understand it.
Best Regards from Paris."
I think that the 2g difference must have been extra weight on the handle.
without that extra 2g on the handle the balance should tip slightly more towards the head at 32cm.
~Tursa
Yup. Those are my knots. Or, as Nate calls them, "Those beehive looking pieces of sh*t."
player > racket. thread end.