need help on groundstrokes again (video)

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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
I am mostly needing help on my forehand, as my backhand is solid and i don't miss it much compared to my forehand.

some random info about my strokes: well i played twice today (video was taken yesterday) and my forehand was amazing in the afternoon, but then i went to go play again in the evening and it seemed like everything went away and my shoulder started hurting and i kept missing even though i tried having the same mindset as earlier. Maybe its a slight timing issue, but when its on its great, but when its off, its pretty bad, unlike my backhand, which always seems to never let me down.

First off, I work on my forheand a ton more than i do any other shot but it never seems to be as solid as my backhand, although there have been break through moments they don't seem to last. When i hit my forehand, i sort of try feeling for a stretch in my bicep because I think i may be hitting it better like that, if that makes any sense. Also, I know people are going to say i should be taking the ball more on the rise, but for some reason i tried that and it doesnt feel natural at all, i like taking it as its dropping even though i have to camp out farther behind hte baseline. I will slowly try to take it more and more on the rise once i feel my technique is right maybe...

Anyways, any advice would be greatly appreciated (especially on my forehand)

Oh yeah, i have more videos, they are still being uploaded though it seems to be taking forever..

VIDEO LINK:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0p0xUq1Bck
 
C

coyfish

Hall of Fame
Well aside from you not moving (footwork) you are really letting the ball get too close on your forehand side. Meaning you are hitting it way late. Not sure why you are doing the nadal over the head follow through. Maybe for low balls but not something you need to do on shots in your strike zone. Practice hitting the ball out in front of you. Watch a fed or djok slomo forhand and see how far in front they hit the ball. Its almost a full arms length in front of them. Also you are not very balanced on your forehand. Notice how your left leg comes up and you lean to the right on your forehands . . . Your backhands are solid and you transfer your weight through and forward nicely. You have to implement those same ideas on your forehand side. Lastly looks like you try and put too much wrist on your forehands. Like your trying to get topspin that way. Thats not the best way. Hit properly with your SW grip (looks SW from vid) and the topspin will generate naturally.

In conclusion biggest thing is make sure you hit in front of you. That will force you to move foreward and will give you better topspin / consistancy. Thats like opposite of what you said in your OP regarding hiting on the rise. No need to hit on the rise unless the ball is deep. Ideally you want to hit right in your strikezone . . .

GL
 
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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
coyfish said:
Well aside from you not moving (footwork) you are really letting the ball get too close on your forehand side. Meaning you are hitting it way late. Not sure why you are doing the nadal over the head follow through. Maybe for low balls but not something you need to do on shots in your strike zone. Practice hitting the ball out in front of you. Watch a fed or djok slomo forhand and see how far in front they hit the ball. Its almost a full arms length in front of them. Also you are not very balanced on your forehand. Notice how your left leg comes up and you lean to the right on your forehands . . . Your backhands are solid and you transfer your weight through and forward nicely. You have to implement those same ideas on your forehand side. Lastly looks like you try and put too much wrist on your forehands. Like your trying to get topspin that way. Thats not the best way. Hit properly with your SW grip (looks SW from vid) and the topspin will generate naturally.

In conclusion biggest thing is make sure you hit in front of you. That will force you to move foreward and will give you better topspin / consistancy. Thats like opposite of what you said in your OP regarding hiting on the rise. No need to hit on the rise unless the ball is deep. Ideally you want to hit right in your strikezone . . .

GL
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ok so hit a lot earlier/out in front with a more lengthened arm, try staying mroe balanced ( don't lean), don't wrist the ball as much,i will try to implement this tomorrow when i play if the rain holds off...thank you
 
P

plowmanjoe

Rookie
I'm not the best at fixing technique using just words. but what will really help you out is not trying to hit so hard. it seems like you're hitting at an 8-9/10 in that video. try hitting at a 5 or a 6. just rally balls.

you're forehand stroke just looks so violent. to me you need to change your take back and your follow through.

sorry if that doesn't help. it's hard for me to describe things over the internet.

another thing i forgot to mention was your footwork. definitely need to be taking a lot of little steps. i'm not a huge fan of the racquet twirl between shots either. but that might just be me.
 
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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
plowmanjoe said:
I'm not the best at fixing technique using just words. but what will really help you out is not trying to hit so hard. it seems like you're hitting at an 8-9/10 in that video. try hitting at a 5 or a 6. just rally balls.

you're forehand stroke just looks so violent. to me you need to change your take back and your follow through.

sorry if that doesn't help. it's hard for me to describe things over the internet.

another thing i forgot to mention was your footwork. definitely need to be taking a lot of little steps. i'm not a huge fan of the racquet twirl between shots either. but that might just be me.
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haha i didnt even know i twirl the racket like that until you metioned it, and yes my footwork could use some more energy in it, about the forehand being too violent, like i dont actaully focus on hitting it hard (although that is the main goal) but i focus on things that could help me hit hard, im assuming this is the okay, if it looks to violent maybe its because i sort of muscle the ball? not too sure but you are right in describing that it looks too violent and not loose or smooth enough
 
P

pvaudio

Legend
Your footwork makes it look like I'm running on coals while walking to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Get on your toes man! You need to be split stepping when your opponent hits, then react to the shot. In this case, since the machine is hitting so slowly, you have plenty of time to prepare. Turn your shoulders and use your torso rotation to help power your shot. You're just flailing your arm about trying to get a huge shot. Set your feet, left hand out in front, strike the ball, and recover to the middle of the court. You should NEVER be flatfooted on the court. If you are, you will never be able to react quickly enough.
 
aimr75

aimr75

Hall of Fame
timing the split step i assume would be more difficult with a ball machine without the visual cue of knowing when the ball is coming... but yeah, more movement
 
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pvaudio

Legend
It's an eastern grip. When your take your racquet back, your palm is facing the ground. The only way that's possible with a W or SW grip is by having your racquet face be pointing at the back fence.
 
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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
pvaudio said:
Your footwork makes it look like I'm running on coals while walking to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Get on your toes man! You need to be split stepping when your opponent hits, then react to the shot. In this case, since the machine is hitting so slowly, you have plenty of time to prepare. Turn your shoulders and use your torso rotation to help power your shot. You're just flailing your arm about trying to get a huge shot. Set your feet, left hand out in front, strike the ball, and recover to the middle of the court. You should NEVER be flatfooted on the court. If you are, you will never be able to react quickly enough.
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it looks like i am turning my shouders and torso to help power the shot, i don't see how im not really. If you can explain this part further, i would appreicate it. thanks
 
P

pvaudio

Legend
IwishIwasbetter said:
it looks like i am turning my shouders and torso to help power the shot, i don't see how im not really. If you can explain this part further, i would appreicate it. thanks
Click to expand...

I'd be happy to once I get back from class. :)

Oh, and don't take my demeanor as being offensive, I tend to joke around a lot :D
 
C

chico9166

Guest
Quite a few problems I see, but lets just isolate two things to work on first.

First of all, when you set the unit turn, keep you shoulders up over your hips, so you don't compress your spine so much. It is very difficult to turn off the ball well when your hunched over. Look how well you stay vertically stacked on the backhand prep, and then contrast that with your posture on the forehand.

Secondly, you really need to get your hands up in the backswing, so there is a little momentum, when you change directions with the racquet. Right now your basically taking the racquet down, stalling the arm, and then really having to exert a lot of force to get the racquet moving again. Get your right hand up to about shoulder height, left arm parallel to the baseline, then just more or less let the racquet free fall from there. With a little practice, you should be able to feel a much smoother transition from downswing to foreward swing with the aid of momentum. In fact that is the feel you should try and key in on. A very relaxed, smooth, redirection of the racquet.
 
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plumcrazy

plumcrazy

Rookie
I can't help you on your tech. but I do recommend you relax on your forehand a lot more and don't swing as hard. I'm speaking form experience. We've got a similar forehand swing.Work on better footwork too. Relaxing and not swing has hard helped me more than anything. Your back hand looks pretty strong. By the way I've got the same ball machine!
 
Bungalo Bill

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
IwishIwasbetter said:
I am mostly needing help on my forehand, as my backhand is solid and i don't miss it much compared to my forehand.

some random info about my strokes: well i played twice today (video was taken yesterday) and my forehand was amazing in the afternoon, but then i went to go play again in the evening and it seemed like everything went away and my shoulder started hurting and i kept missing even though i tried having the same mindset as earlier. Maybe its a slight timing issue, but when its on its great, but when its off, its pretty bad, unlike my backhand, which always seems to never let me down.

First off, I work on my forheand a ton more than i do any other shot but it never seems to be as solid as my backhand, although there have been break through moments they don't seem to last. When i hit my forehand, i sort of try feeling for a stretch in my bicep because I think i may be hitting it better like that, if that makes any sense. Also, I know people are going to say i should be taking the ball more on the rise, but for some reason i tried that and it doesnt feel natural at all, i like taking it as its dropping even though i have to camp out farther behind hte baseline. I will slowly try to take it more and more on the rise once i feel my technique is right maybe...

Anyways, any advice would be greatly appreciated (especially on my forehand)

Oh yeah, i have more videos, they are still being uploaded though it seems to be taking forever..

VIDEO LINK:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0p0xUq1Bck
Click to expand...

I am going to help you later. Right now, I don't have time to provide a complete analysis.

However, right off the bat, I wish, scratch that, I want you to change your followthrough and how go through the ball.

Aside from having no leg involvement in your stroke and needing more rotation in the shoulders, your forehand is all arm and wrist and your followthrough needs to be thrown in the garbage.

Quit using the reverse forehand followthrough and quit trying to add or spin the ball from your forearm wrist. You are forcing your shot in this case and that reverse followthrough is hurting your timing and your ability to go through the ball. In other words, your extention through the ball is inconsistent in both cases because you have more concern to reverse the followthrough and/or tweak the topspin with your wrist and WW motion.

STOP IT!

You are going to have to rework your forehand and you might pay the piper for awhile because you might have engrained some bad habits that contribute to your inconsistent forehand.

Just think about your backhand (although you have some improvement to do there as well), you are simply hitting the ball (sometimes overhitting) but the stroke isn't doing all these gyrations. Take note of that, regroup, and lets build back that forehand. You have it in you but first you need to ditch the mindset you are currently in to hold on to that reverse forehand or try to spin the ball by cranking your forearm/racquet for your WW motion.
 
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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
chico9166 said:
Quite a few problems I see, but lets just isolate two things to work on first.

First of all, when you set the unit turn, keep you shoulders up over your hips, so you don't compress your spine so much. It is very difficult to turn off the ball well when your hunched over. Look how well you stay vertically stacked on the backhand prep, and then contrast that with your posture on the forehand.

Secondly, you really need to get your hands up in the backswing, so there is a little momentum, when you change directions with the racquet. Right now your basically taking the racquet down, stalling the arm, and then really having to exert a lot of force to get the racquet moving again. Get your right hand up to about shoulder height, left arm parallel to the baseline, then just more or less let the racquet free fall from there. With a little practice, you should be able to feel a much smoother transition from downswing to foreward swing with the aid of momentum. In fact that is the feel you should try and key in on. A very relaxed, smooth, redirection of the racquet.
Click to expand...

hmm on the first part, are you saying i need to basically stop bending my back as much and keep it more upright so my shoulders are more above my hips than they are in that video?

on the 2nd part, you are saying i need to keep the racket moving throughout the swing instead of stalling the arm then hitting, you are also saying i need to take a bigger backswing to get more momentum and free fall which will also aid in keeping the racket moving, and you are also saying to relax..i am going to write all of this down and work on it at the courts tomorrow, and will try getting my dad to video record it
 
DavaiMarat

DavaiMarat

Professional
Oh my is that a Silent Partner Ball machine I see? Are you from Toronto?

Oh for your strokes. Forehand is very late. You have a good leverage position on that wing but it shouldn't stop and wait for the for ball and then accelerate violently. The racquet never stops moving. Take something off of your forehand and hit farther in front with the double bend. Your slapping at it at the end because of being late.

Backhand, again stop trying to tear the felt off and brush up and get some spin.

Cheers,

Mike
 
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I

IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
plumcrazy said:
I can't help you on your tech. but I do recommend you relax on your forehand a lot more and don't swing as hard. I'm speaking form experience. We've got a similar forehand swing.Work on better footwork too. Relaxing and not swing has hard helped me more than anything. Your back hand looks pretty strong. By the way I've got the same ball machine!
Click to expand...

yep my forehand is much more muscled and tense than my backhand, and the ball machine has been great in grooving my strokes
 
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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
Bungalo Bill said:
I am going to help you later. Right now, I don't have time to provide a complete analysis.

However, right off the bat, I wish, scratch that, I want you to change your followthrough and how go through the ball.

Aside from having no leg involvement in your stroke and needing more rotation in the shoulders, your forehand is all arm and wrist and your followthrough needs to be thrown in the garbage.

Quit using the reverse forehand followthrough and quit trying to add or spin the ball from your forearm wrist. You are forcing your shot in this case and that reverse followthrough is hurting your timing and your ability to go through the ball. In other words, your extention through the ball is inconsistent in both cases because you have more concern to reverse the followthrough and/or tweak the topspin with your wrist and WW motion.

STOP IT!

You are going to have to rework your forehand and you might pay the piper for awhile because you might have engrained some bad habits that contribute to your inconsistent forehand.

Just think about your backhand (although you have some improvement to do there as well), you are simply hitting the ball (sometimes overhitting) but the stroke isn't doing all these gyrations. Take note of that, regroup, and lets build back that forehand. You have it in you but first you need to ditch the mindset you are currently in to hold on to that reverse forehand or try to spin the ball by cranking your forearm/racquet for your WW motion.
Click to expand...

thanks for the response, i agree with you that my forehand is not technically sound at all, it is tense and muscled and it does sometimes feel like im stiff arming the ball, and i am willing to rework it..
but the thing is i have tried so many different things on my forehand, and this is sort of what works best for me, i mean like for example nadals forehand isnt technically sound at all either is it? but his weird technique works well for him,
and when i went out and hit the other day, my forehand had much had more pace, spin, and consistency than my backhand and it was the best it has ever been, although it is not always like that, my body was feeling really good and i must have been timing it correctly/moving my feet well or something but what im trying to say is, maybe this forehand that im hitting now might be what works best for me (although im sure a few changes need to be made) , do you think that is possible, or do you think i most definitely need to rework the whole thing?
Again, you are probably right that i need to rework the whole thing, and i am willing to change whatever you guys are telling that me needs to be changed in the stroke and i will keep video recording the changes until i feel like im hitting it right..thanks for the response
 
P

plowmanjoe

Rookie
IwishIwasbetter said:
thanks for the response, i agree with you that my forehand is not technically sound at all, it is tense and muscled and it does sometimes feel like im stiff arming the ball, and i am willing to rework it..
but the thing is i have tried so many different things on my forehand, and this is sort of what works best for me, i mean like for example nadals forehand isnt technically sound at all either is it? but his weird technique works well for him,
and when i went out and hit the other day, my forehand had much had more pace, spin, and consistency than my backhand and it was the best it has ever been, although it is not always like that, my body was feeling really good and i must have been timing it correctly/moving my feet well or something but what im trying to say is, maybe this forehand that im hitting now might be what works best for me (although im sure a few changes need to be made) , do you think that is possible, or do you think i most definitely need to rework the whole thing?
Again, you are probably right that i need to rework the whole thing, and i am willing to change whatever you guys are telling that me needs to be changed in the stroke and i will keep video recording the changes until i feel like im hitting it right..thanks for the response
Click to expand...

i think most definately you need to rework the whole thing. you need to get worse before you get better. and if you have the right technique, you'll improve way past the point you were at with your old technique.
 
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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
DavaiMarat said:
Oh my is that a Silent Partner Ball machine I see? Are you from Toronto?

Oh for your strokes. Forehand is very late. You have a good leverage position on that wing but it shouldn't stop and wait for the for ball and then accelerate violently. The racquet never stops moving. Take something off of your forehand and hit farther in front with the double bend. Your slapping at it at the end because of being late.

Backhand, again stop trying to tear the felt off and brush up and get some spin.

Cheers,

Mike
Click to expand...

yep, silent partner star, i live in ohio though.

i will take your advice about hitting it earlier and trying to keep the racket moving the whole stroke.

in your opinion though, do you think i should completly rework my forehand, or should i keep tweaking it from how it is now?
 
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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
ok, i get it i need to rework my whole forehand,

i have made a list of all the things i have read in the thread so far that i need to work on

-keep the back more upright on the unit turn
-get an actual backswing for momentum
-keep the racket moving throughout the stroke
-hit more early/out in front
-more active footwork
-don't muscle the ball and relax the arm instead, don't wrist the shot in an attempt to get spin

i am still awaiting most of bungalo bills advice on how to go about reworking the whole forehand stroke, and i could obviously use anyone elses advice too...thanks everyone
 
P

plowmanjoe

Rookie
IwishIwasbetter said:
ok, i get it i need to rework my whole forehand,

i have made a list of all the things i have read in the thread so far that i need to work on

-keep the back more upright on the unit turn
-get an actual backswing for momentum
-keep the racket moving throughout the stroke
-hit more early/out in front
-more active footwork
-don't muscle the ball and relax the arm instead, don't wrist the shot in an attempt to get spin

i am still awaiting most of bungalo bills advice on how to go about reworking the whole forehand stroke, and i could obviously use anyone elses advice too...thanks everyone
Click to expand...

how about working on hitting at a 6-7/10 rally speed ball? fixing that follow through.
 
Bungalo Bill

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
IwishIwasbetter said:
thanks for the response, i agree with you that my forehand is not technically sound at all, it is tense and muscled and it does sometimes feel like im stiff arming the ball, and i am willing to rework it.
Click to expand...

Then you need to stop trying to do the reverse forehand and the WW because you are not doing them right.

In your current use of the two, in order for you to make them happen, you will need to tighten up the arm, forfeit your extention through the ball, and will not be able to hit the ball cleanly and on time because of the slight alteration in your swing path that happens everytime you hit the ball. In other words, everytime you hit the ball you will have subtle differences when you perform the WW/Reverse each time the strings touch the ball whch will be magnified into inconsistency.

You need to change your thinking towards what Vic Braden used to say "hit the same old boring ball or boring winner." What Vic is saying here is for players to be consistent they need to have a swing path that is duplicatable for every contact made with the ball. Consistency is most important in tennis.

but the thing is i have tried so many different things on my forehand, and this is sort of what works best for me, i mean like for example nadals forehand isnt technically sound at all either is it? but his weird technique works well for him
Click to expand...

Nadal is technically sound. He uses a reverse forehand but he goes through the ball and allows the momentum built in his swing path to dicate the finish. His arm is relaxed through it and yours is forced. This is why you first need to understand how to relax and go through the ball and let your finish happen before you take on other things like reversing the finish through your swing path.

The finish of your stroke is not the main show, it is a byproduct of what you did before that. Your contact with the ball is the main show.

and when i went out and hit the other day, my forehand had much had more pace, spin, and consistency than my backhand and it was the best it has ever been, although it is not always like that, my body was feeling really good and i must have been timing it correctly/moving my feet well or something but what im trying to say is, maybe this forehand that im hitting now might be what works best for me (although im sure a few changes need to be made) , do you think that is possible, or do you think i most definitely need to rework the whole thing?
Click to expand...

I dont want you to give up on using a reverse forehand. What I want is for you to change your thinking on what you emphasize in the stroke. For that you might have to take a step back to take a step forward.

If you are not consistent then the forehand isn't working.

Again, you are probably right that i need to rework the whole thing, and i am willing to change whatever you guys are telling that me needs to be changed in the stroke and i will keep video recording the changes until i feel like im hitting it right..thanks for the response
Click to expand...

Perhaps I used the wrong word or went too far. We just need to get you to groove certain things before taking on the different finishes and swing paths. This might mean you will go back to go forward or it might not.
 
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DavaiMarat

DavaiMarat

Professional
IwishIwasbetter said:
yep, silent partner star, i live in ohio though.

i will take your advice about hitting it earlier and trying to keep the racket moving the whole stroke.

in your opinion though, do you think i should completly rework my forehand, or should i keep tweaking it from how it is now?
Click to expand...

This is a funny question because it's a question I get a lot but it's I really don't think the former is an option. No one can completely rework or retool thier forehands or ground strokes save from replacing the arm and body you have now. So no, don't throw away everything it's a matter of keeping the good stuff and dropping the bad. Even tweaking it will take time. Muscle memory is a funny thing, it takes 6-8 months of constant hitting to retool a shot so you can do it unconsciously.

Here's the way to look at it my friend. Don't look at it as a complete overhaul. Nor look at it as breaking bad habits.

You're creating 'NEW HABITS'. Get a pro to look at your stroke and give you a few things to work on. A good pro will give you the proper imagery or reference (ie. patting the dog whatever) so you can reproduce good results on your own. Keep a diary and keep notes. Look at it before you hit. At 1st it will be a big list but as you develop you'll get more and more concise.

And remember it's your 'NEW' forehand and not fixing a 'BROKEN OLD' forehand. With this attitude you'll be more likely to cope with hard bumps along the road. Except failure as a necessary step for success - remove your ego from your learning.

That's about the best advice I can give you bro,

Good luck.

Mike

Last thing. It's great all the helpful advice that people give on the board but they more often or not they will just say 'Hit earlier! or 'Move your feet more'. Though as good intended as this is you'll need to see a pro get good visual, audio, mental queues to develop some good habits. Don't get frustrated with the bombardment of critism. Take one or two points to a pro and have him watch for this while you rally.
 
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IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
Bungalo Bill said:
Then you need to stop trying to do the reverse forehand and the WW because you are not doing them right.

In your current use of the two, in order for you to make them happen, you will need to tighten up the arm, forfeit your extention through the ball, and will not be able to hit the ball cleanly and on time because of the slight alteration in your swing path that happens everytime you hit the ball. In other words, everytime you hit the ball you will have subtle differences when you perform the WW/Reverse each time the strings touch the ball whch will be magnified into inconsistency.

You need to change you thinking towards what Vic Braden used to say "hit the same old boring ball or boring winner." What Vic is saying here is a players swing path that they can duplicate over and over again, is what helps build consistency among other things.



Nadal is technically sound. He uses a reverse forehand but he goes through the ball and allows the momentum built in his swing path to dicate the finish. His arm is relaxed through it and yours is forced. This is why you first need to understand how to relax and go through the ball and let your finish happen before you take on other things like reversing the finish through your swing path.

The finish of your stroke is not the main show, it is a byproduct of what you did before that. Your contact with the ball is the main show.



I dont want you to give up on using a reverse forehand. What I want is for you to change your thinking on what you emphasize in the stroke. For that you might have to take a step back to take a step forward.

If you are not consistent then the forehand isn't working.



Perhaps I used the wrong word or went too far. We just need to get you to groove certain things before taking on the different finishes and swing paths. This might mean you will go back to go forward or it might not.
Click to expand...

ok, thanks for responding, was this the analysis? so i need to relax and hit more through the ball too..anything else?
 
I

IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
DavaiMarat said:
This is a funny question because it's a question I get a lot but it's I really don't think the former is an option. No one can completely rework or retool thier forehands or ground strokes save from replacing the arm and body you have now. So no, don't throw away everything it's a matter of keeping the good stuff and dropping the bad. Even tweaking it will take time. Muscle memory is a funny thing, it takes 6-8 months of constant hitting to retool a shot so you can do it unconsciously.

Here's the way to look at it my friend. Don't look at it as a complete overhaul. Nor look at it as breaking bad habits.

You're creating 'NEW HABITS'. Get a pro to look at your stroke and give you a few things to work on. A good pro will give you the proper imagery or reference (ie. patting the dog whatever) so you can reproduce good results on your own. Keep a diary and keep notes. Look at it before you hit. At 1st it will be a big list but as you develop you'll get more and more concise.

And remember it's your 'NEW' forehand and not fixing a 'BROKEN OLD' forehand. With this attitude you'll be more likely to cope with hard bumps along the road. Except failure as a necessary step for success - remove your ego from your learning.

That's about the best advice I can give you bro,

Good luck.

Mike

Last thing. It's great all the helpful advice that people give on the board but they more often or not they will just say 'Hit earlier! or 'Move your feet more'. Though as good intended as this is you'll need to see a pro get good visual, audio, mental queues to develop some good habits. Don't get frustrated with the bombardment of critism. Take one or two points to a pro and have him watch for this while you rally.
Click to expand...

great advice, thank you
 
Bungalo Bill

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
IwishIwasbetter said:
ok, thanks for responding, was this the analysis? so i need to relax and hit more through the ball too..anything else?
Click to expand...

No, not yet. I will help with a more thorough analysis later that will look at your entire stroke from the ground up.

I just need you to change your mindset about how you strike the ball and to help you cut out the fluff (twirling, reverse finish, WW by force, etc...).

I don't want you to think the reverse forehand is bad or something you shouldn't learn. Nor do I want you to think I don't like WW type swings.

We just need to go back to making a quality contact with the ball and develop a consistent finish based on what preceded the finish. In other words, making good contact with the ball is most important while letting the finish follow and for that I will be suggestiing you set aside the WW and Reverse until you can go through the ball with a good swing path.
 
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Bungalo Bill

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
IwishIwasbetter said:
well my natural swing is how i hit in the video which seems to be really bad technique.. what do you mean by natural
Click to expand...

Great response. Please don't practice your "natural" swing then. :)

However, in all fairness, Pvaudio wasn't referring to your incorrect swing. He was referring to adopting a natural swing path which swings the racquet low to high and extends through the ball before coming around for the finish.

He and I have gone around and around with our resident fool on tennis learned "naturally". Which is the biggest lie a tennis player can buy into.

Players bring what they bring to the table for tennis. The rest needs to be fine-tuned, practiced, critqued, and trained so that a tennis player can become skillful with their craft. Although tennis players can receive benefit here and by watching a pro player, true development happens on the court by practicing good technique and good footwork for tennis.
 
I

IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
Bungalo Bill said:
Great response. Please don't practice your "natural" swing then. :)

However, in all fairness, Pvaudio wasn't referring to your incorrect swing. He was referring to adopting a natural swing path which swings the racquet low to high and extends through the ball before coming around for the finish.

He and I have gone around and around with our resident fool on tennis learned "naturally". Which is the biggest lie a tennis player can buy into.

Players bring what they bring to the table for tennis. The rest needs to be fine-tuned, practiced, critqued, and trained so that a tennis player can become skillful with their craft. Although tennis players can receive benefit here and by watching a pro player, true development happens on the court by practicing good technique and good footwork for tennis.
Click to expand...

bill, when you pvaudio meant swinging from low to high and extending through the ball before coming around to finish, well on the video, the ones where i don't reverse it, aren't i going from low to high and extending through the ball?

I mean i just got back from hitting a little while ago and i sucked terribly this time, i tried to take a backswing and not stall the racket, i tried loosening my arm, and i tried keeping my back mroe upright and hit the ball earlier, a lot of these came naturally after trying one thing which made it easier but my forehands felt awful and i couldn't feel the power on them....i didn't feel the stretch i had felt like in that video..it feels like without this stretch in the arm i can't get much power..gah i don't know anymore..i think i'm just gona stick with my old form and tweak it slightly, although i will wait for your analysis and try doing what you say before giving up...thanks
 
I

IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
is my technique really that bad? i mean how can i even hit the ball as hard as i was in that video( not that it was that hard) if my technique was that bad?
 
rosewall4ever

rosewall4ever

Semi-Pro
your flickin your wrist which is why its erratic. the wrist laid back at the start of your swing continues through to the follow through. need to remove any unnecessary movements similarly to your backhand.
 
N

Nellie

Hall of Fame
IwishIwasbetter said:
is my technique really that bad? i mean how can i even hit the ball as hard as i was in that video( not that it was that hard) if my technique was that bad?
Click to expand...

Your technique is pretty bad. And you are trying to hammer the ball with that bad technique, which probably kills your results, so you cannot even push the ball around because you have no consistency in the form or results.

If I were to work on your form, I would have you play a couple of weeks with a two handed forehand (left hand on top), to force you to rotate your body/shoulders prior to contact.

Then I would have you hit one handed stroke with the following guidelines:
hold on to the throat of the racquet with your left hand as you prepare,
release with the left hand when your left shoulder is pointed to the ball,
continue to bringing the racquet back until it is slightly behind your right shoulder and about shoulder/chest height,
swinging a round loop that goes beneath the ball prior to contact and to extend the stroke through and past the point of contact , and
finish over the left shoulder with a good step with the right foot while catching the racquet with the left hand so that you finish with your right shoulder pointed to the intended target.

These points may change as your improve, but build the concept of hitting from the hips and through the ball.
 
I

IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
gahhh forget it im not going to rebuild a new forehand, i don't see the point in bothering, i think if i change a couple things i can have a consistent and powerful forehand, but if i try rebuilding a new one it will take months to learn and i don't have that much time left. for now, i am just going to try watching the ball through the back of the stringbed (forcing me to hit out in front) , relaxing my wrist, hand and arm so i don't completly arm the ball, and move my feet better, and i am going to try hitting with more of a straight arm if i'm not already..if anyone has any more advice, i would be glad to read it.
 
Bungalo Bill

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
IwishIwasbetter said:
bill, when you pvaudio meant swinging from low to high and extending through the ball before coming around to finish, well on the video, the ones where i don't reverse it, aren't i going from low to high and extending through the ball?

I mean i just got back from hitting a little while ago and i sucked terribly this time, i tried to take a backswing and not stall the racket, i tried loosening my arm, and i tried keeping my back mroe upright and hit the ball earlier, a lot of these came naturally after trying one thing which made it easier but my forehands felt awful and i couldn't feel the power on them....i didn't feel the stretch i had felt like in that video..it feels like without this stretch in the arm i can't get much power..gah i don't know anymore..i think i'm just gona stick with my old form and tweak it slightly, although i will wait for your analysis and try doing what you say before giving up...thanks
Click to expand...

Geez man, come on. I wouldnt have said anything if I didnt think your forehand needed to work differently. If you only had one thing to improve, I would have gave you one thing.

I am not looking for perfection, I am looking for committment. I just simply go through a checklist to see where the racquet is at certain positions. I look at your feet, legs, shoulders, position to the ball, your non-dominant arm, etc...

Some people have a lot to change because they engrained bad habits. Some don't.

Do you understand what it is you are suppose to do?
 
JackB1

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
biggest thing I see is that you aren't stepping into your forhand and you are keeping your weight back on your heels and not getting your whole body into the swing. Too wristy too. Get set up early and get that lower body and shoulder into the shot! You have a lazy forehand right now.
 
P

plowmanjoe

Rookie
IwishIwasbetter said:
gahhh forget it im not going to rebuild a new forehand, i don't see the point in bothering, i think if i change a couple things i can have a consistent and powerful forehand, but if i try rebuilding a new one it will take months to learn and i don't have that much time left. for now, i am just going to try watching the ball through the back of the stringbed (forcing me to hit out in front) , relaxing my wrist, hand and arm so i don't completly arm the ball, and move my feet better, and i am going to try hitting with more of a straight arm if i'm not already..if anyone has any more advice, i would be glad to read it.
Click to expand...

ridiculous, were you just expecting compliments and praise? one of the most annoying things with teaching tennis is people that refuse to listen to advice. those people never improve. that's fine, just don't come here looking for advice that you'll just ignore anyways.
 
C

Cloud Atlas

Rookie
Watch this guy if you want a solid forehand example.
I learned so much from watching this vid.
Notice how his weight is going into the shot? He also tends to extend out into the ball. Actually his swing is not so low to high as it is "through" the ball. This is probably exaggerated by the fact he's hitting waist high balls. But try to work out the difference between your own technique and Nalbandians. It made a huge difference when I did this for myself.
Here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v***4x4OdOI

Also notice how his follow through is directly over his left shoulder, with a bit of ww. I'd avoid the nadal follow through unless you are Nadal or grossly out of position and it's the only choice you have. Good luck!
 
I

IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
got to hit again a little today, 2 video link are below...i also have some snapshots which i will post a little later..my forehands were feeling somewhat more solid today , i still find it a bit hard to believe that i can be hitting some of them this well yet be doing the stroke totally wrong, i took some snapshots and compared it to a slow mo verdasco video on youtube and a lot of the pics look very similar especially when we make contact although his arm is completely straight unlike mine and he uses a more western grip (not trying to say that im as good as him or anything, obviously i suck compared to him) but it just makes me more confused as to how i can be hitting it that wrong, maybe its just unorhtodox?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpQTZY2sr4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z2hchTdhV8
 
I

IwishIwasbetter

Rookie
Bungalo Bill said:
Geez man, come on. I wouldnt have said anything if I didnt think your forehand needed to work differently. If you only had one thing to improve, I would have gave you one thing.

I am not looking for perfection, I am looking for committment. I just simply go through a checklist to see where the racquet is at certain positions. I look at your feet, legs, shoulders, position to the ball, your non-dominant arm, etc...

Some people have a lot to change because they engrained bad habits. Some don't.

Do you understand what it is you are suppose to do?
Click to expand...

thanks for the response again, i will try to do everything you tell me to do then, although, no , i don't understand exactly what it is i should do...if you could go through that check list or help me get started on how to rebuild this forehand, i would appreciate it..
 
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