With all due respect to Roddick's steadier thunder-clap of a serve I give the better serve to Goran.
IMO Goran was a better and more consistently lethal player -- overall -- than Andy...
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Here's the stats for Goran as far as holding serve is concerned from 1991 on.
1991-84%
1992-89
1993-86
1994-87
1995-86
1996-89
1997-88
1998-86
1999-80
2000-76
2001-87
2002-82
2003-5...
The only year Goran was number one in holding serve was 1992. That's really not bad because he was behind Sampras a few times who usually was number one in holding serve in the 1990's.
Same as with their games...Roddick more reliable, Goran more fantastic. I'd take Roddick's serve...he doesn't DF in pressure situations like Goran did (i.e. 92 Wimbledon final 5th set).
I agree. I was thinking about it and it's hard of course to separate the actual effectiveness of the serve and how they may back up a serve. A Federer is usually around very high for holding serve and in some years he may have a higher percentage of holding serve record than perhaps even a Sampras but if you asked anyone whose serve they would rather have, I think just about anyone would rather have Pete Sampras' serve.
Goran's serve was fabulous and his first serve would one of the greatest ever.
Same as with their games...Roddick more reliable, Goran more fantastic. I'd take Roddick's serve...he doesn't DF in pressure situations like Goran did (i.e. 92 Wimbledon final 5th set).
Agree! In addition, he even has more pace.
Pace? placement is more important when you consider how hard both served. karlovic his a harder serve than both,m but I would rather Goran/Andy serve.
Roddick.
more reliable, consistent effective weapon
I know Sampras is regarded as having the best serve ever, it had been common knowledge back in the 90's that Goran was considered to have the best serve. This was also a time of great, power servers. So Goran was probably better than we can recall.
Pace? placement is more important when you consider how hard both served. karlovic his a harder serve than both,m but I would rather Goran/Andy serve.
Goran at his peak was unplayable in a way that Roddick is not and could compete well on any surface. Ivo is a freak of nature.
What would be most interesting would be to segregate the ratio of aces + service winners per total service points rather then % held to really isolate the serve itself. I think you'd really see Goran & Ivo distance themselves from anyone else armed with that Sabermetric stat!
The one thing I am sure about is that, at its best, Goran's serve was utterly unplayable and, more importantly, unreadable on any surface.
You lose all credibility with this statement. Ivo Karlovic has a much more effective and consistent serve than either Ivanesevic or Roddick. The stats back this up at well; he is at 92% games held without anything else but a serve.
Not true...prime Goran's serve was only unreadable and unplayable consistently on grass -- otherwise he would have at least made one HC slam final; he never even made a year-end championship final, which is ideally suited for his style (carpet).
As great as Goran's serve was on grass, on any other surface it was manageable...that's why Courier owned him in slams, while Sampras could serve Courier off the court on HC.
Actually Goran led in a number of years in first serve points won and obviously the majority of the matches were NOT on grass. Goran's first serve was awesome on any surface.
I know we are talking about Goran's serve here but while Goran had an excellent career, I always felt he was a big underachiever. I felt he should have won so many more majors and tournaments but as Azzurri wrote, he lost a lot of matches mentally.
I'm glad he finally won Wimbledon and it's fitting that it was the last tournament he won.
Goran at his peak was only unplayable on grass....Roddick would own him on every other surface except clay (where Goran is clearly better).
And no, the percentage of games held is what truly matters in the end. No one cares if you serve 78 aces if you lose b/c your serve gets broken.
So you are admitting Goran was better on grass and better on clay. That is already 2 of the 3 main surfaces. Goran is better on grass and clay, and Roddick only better on hard courts. There is also carpet and indoors. Roddick has never won a Masters title indoors, he has never even made the final of the Masters Cup (1 of his 2 best ever showings was getting destroyed by David Ferrer in the semis during Ferrer's best year). Actually I am trying to recall Roddick even making a Masters finals indoors. Ivanisevic is clearly better there too.
So Ivanisevic > Roddick on grass, clay, and carpet
Roddick > Ivanisevic only on hard courts
LOL...are you kidding me? What has Karlo EVER done in ANY slam????? NOTHING! You miss the point, go figure.:roll:
Ivo is playing in the wrong era... Had he been in the '90s, he would have won everything on grass...
LOL...are you kidding me? What has Karlo EVER done in ANY slam????? NOTHING! You miss the point, go figure.:roll:
And no, the percentage of games held is what truly matters in the end. No one cares if you serve 78 aces if you lose b/c your serve gets broken.
Not true...prime Goran's serve was only unreadable and unplayable consistently on grass -- otherwise he would have at least made one HC slam final;.
It has always taken more than just a serve to win in slams. .
As great as Goran's serve was on grass, on any other surface it was manageable...that's why Courier owned him in slams,
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It has always taken more than just a serve to win in slams.
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If Goran's serve was so unreturnable on every surface consistently, he would have made more than 1 slam SF on HC in his 16 year career (and even in doing that he beat a way postprime Edberg at the 96 US Open QF)..
It has always taken more than just a serve to win in slams.
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Mentally tough baseliners who could be served off of the court by Sampras actually had good records against Goran (i.e. Courier, Chang), so Goran's serve wasn't nearly as good as Pete's was on HC. .
It has always taken more than just a serve to win in slams.
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Ivo is playing in the wrong era... Had he been in the '90s, he would have won everything on grass...
You can't win a slam if you can't keep a rally going for more than 5 shots. Karlovic's groundstrokes are as bad as his serve is good. If he has the best serve in the game and the worst ground strokes in the top 100, he's still just about an average player (among the top 100) who struggles to make it deep into the majors.
Goran at his peak was only unplayable on grass....Roddick would own him on every other surface except clay (where Goran is clearly better).
And no, the percentage of games held is what truly matters in the end. No one cares if you serve 78 aces if you lose b/c your serve gets broken.
How is this even a question? Goran is obviously the greatest server of the 90s, while Roddick isnt even the best server this decade.
Power-Roddick although Goran could probably match Roddick's average heat with today's radar guns
Placement-Ivanisevic who along with Sampras had insane accuracy on a dime
Disguise-Ivanisevic with his crouching stance is very hard to read, while Roddick's is readable
Spin- Roddick because his overall spin rate is higher, similar to Sampras
Consistency- Roddick gets around 75% first serve percentage and rarely double faults. Goran was a headcase who got around 50% first serve percentages and hit 10 double faults a match.
Flat serve- Roddick whose power potential reaches 150 and his flat bomb is very heavy in the rpm rate
Slice serve- Goran's slice out wide on grass was hellacious
Kick serve-Roddick. Goran simply "I cant hit kick serves" Goran mostly kicked the serve on clay, and it really wasnt that good. Roddick's is much better.
Aces-Ivanisevic obviously. Beast ace machine.
Service winners- Roddick probably. If you could get a racket on Gorans serve it was easier to return.
Overall- Ivanisevic
Here you go Forrest Gump. BTW Azzuri do you even play tennis.
so Goran would own Roddick on 2/3 surfaces? actually carpet should be added, so 3/4. I am not sure what your point is since it seems to be contradictory.
PS. Serves don't get more readable just because one is standing on a hardcourt. Your conclusions don't get more rational either.
you're a funny guy. not sure how, but you have me confused. I think Goran's serve was better. I have argued this on other threads as well. But I agree with your assessment. This issue was discussed in another thread and way too many (teens and clueless posters) were claiming Roddick's serve is better..I disagreed.
yes, I play tennis alas not very well.
LOL...maybe you should actually watch him play a few matches. The rest of his game is division III tennis (maybe). But seriously, he can't BREAK serve especially on grass (worse on fast grass). The key to grass is breaking serve.
You lose all credibility with this statement. Ivo Karlovic has a much more effective and consistent serve than either Ivanesevic or Roddick. The stats back this up at well; he is at 92% games held without anything else but a serve.