Luckiest player of last 15 years
- Thread starter cuddles26
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cuddles26
Banned
The only fail is an idiot who thinks Djokovic can beat Federer at Wimbledon or that Hewitt will be in the top 8 next year, ROTFL!!!!
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
Nadal was lucky that he won almost every close match in slams, even when he got outplayed for most of the time, but he's by no means one of the luckiest, and neither is Federer who lost many close matches in slams (03 USO, 05 AO, 06 RG, 08 Wimbledon, 09 AO, 09 USO).
Rafter played well and deserved to win the US both times, but he was bit lucky that Sampras was injured one time, but he could've won anyway.
Coria and Hewitt weren't lucky at all, especially the later.
Kafelnikov was lucky that he won 2 slams, bit overachiever IMO.
Usually I don't care about the WTA, but in this case I pick Graf, if Seles had not been stabed she could've well won 7-10 slams less, that's some massive "luck".
Rafter played well and deserved to win the US both times, but he was bit lucky that Sampras was injured one time, but he could've won anyway.
Coria and Hewitt weren't lucky at all, especially the later.
Kafelnikov was lucky that he won 2 slams, bit overachiever IMO.
Usually I don't care about the WTA, but in this case I pick Graf, if Seles had not been stabed she could've well won 7-10 slams less, that's some massive "luck".
cuddles26
Banned
Well Rafter I think was even luckier in 97 U.S Open than the 98 version since Sampras would have crushed him badly if they played that year but lost early, and other than Chang in the semis his whole draw was a cakewalk. I think in the quarters he played Larsson and in the final Rusedski. In the round of 16 he played Agassi which is actually a dream draw that year as Agassi's tennis wasnt even top 50 calibre that year (amazing he even made the round of 16 that year).
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
I just checked his 97 draw, you're right. His best wins were "Crystal Meth"-Agassi and inconsistent Krajicek.
No wonder McEncroe called him a one-slam wonder at the time.
grafselesfan
Banned
I still vote for Crapriati.
grafselesfan
Banned
Graf only won 11 slams after the stabbing. Up to 10 less!?!? That would require Monica holding Graf to only 1 Wimbledon, good luck with that, LOL! Their 2 matches on grass Monica got 4 games in 4 total sets. I wont even bother getting into a long drawn out discussion over the rest as I am a fan of both players, but you already fail.
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
Why not? Graf's confidence would've been at a VERY different level if she had kept losing to Seles, even against other player that would've been significant, she probably would've lost matches like the 93 Wimbledon final.
Her confidence would've been way lower and that of her opponents way higher.
And you know that Seles was not playing nearly as well as she could both time she faced Graf on grass (Seles was a little girl in 89, 92 was the grunt-controvery).
Graf is the better grass court player, but she could've lost to Seles.
grafselesfan
Banned
Blah blah blah.
The grunting thing is a cheesy excuse for Seles fanatics who hate Graf for why Monica got her ass kicked in that day. They are the only ones (and I can already tell you must be one) who bring that up. As for their 89 match, Monica was already good enough to take Graf to 3 sets on clay but only able to get 1 game on grass. So that only goes to show further Graf was such an awful matchup for Monica on grass, that Seles would basically have to reach the point she was destroying Graf on clay before she would come close to her on grass. I love Monica, but Monica her whole career has been a much worse player on grass than all other surfaces, no excuses. She wouldnt have even been in the 92 final at all if she had Graf's draw instead of her own.
Graf's confidence vs her pigeons like Novotna would be no different with or without Seles. Dont kid yourself.
If you think Graf would have won less slams without the stabbing fine, I agree she would have, but your 7-10 guesstimate is a joke.
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
The same was said about Nadal beating Federer on grass before Wimbledon 2006.
Seles likely hadn't even reached her peak in 93.
zagor
Bionic Poster
I don't know,I liked Seles a lot and I could definitely see her improving on grass since 92 enough to win Wimbledon in some of the next few years if she wasn't stabbed but winning Wimbledon beating Graf? Don't see that happening.
Seles was beating Graf mostly on rebound ace and clay and even there matches were usually very close.
You fail completely with that parallel. Nadal took Federer to 4 sets in the 2006 final, and could have been up 2 sets to 1 if he didnt choke serving for the 2nd set. Monica took 3 games off Graf in the 92 final, was bullied off the court. The gap between Graf and Seles on grass was 10 times bigger than the gap between Nadal and Federer on grass was by 2006. Also people already recognized Nadal was a real threat to Federer on grass in the future after that 2006 final.
If Monica were going to win Wimbledon even without the stabbing she would have done a heck of alot better than her 2nd and 3rd round losses to journeywomen opponents she killed on other surfaces in the 4 years after the stabbing. The stabbing would never make enough difference to translate a regular early round loser to a champion. Even with the stabbing she was regularly making semis and finals of other slams on her better surfaces the first 4 years back.
Monica had one shot to win Wimbledon maybe. 1994, the year Graf lost early, Novotna and Sanchez Vicario went out, and it was Martinez and nearly 40 year old Navratilova in the final . That is it. Although if Monica were there the draw possibly changes, Graf possibly doesnt lose 1st round, and then goes on to win, so might gain another Wimbledon already. Then if she is only 1 away from the record she might have more determination in 98-99 or to play another year or two and try and get it. Strangely enough at Wimbledon Graf may have gained without the Seles stabbing even.
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dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
I couldn't care less about Graf and Seles.
One point probably made the difference in the Graf/Novotna match. Had Graf lost to Seles in RG 93 she and Novotna would've been in a different mindset.
It doesn't matter if Graf would've won 5 or 10 slams less, what matters is that the stabbing had way more influence on history than any event of any other player in the poll options.
grafselesfan
Banned
Jana is a mental midget of epic proportions, especialy when she plays Graf or Navratilova (the two players she seems to kiss ass most of for some reason, and Martina even in her old age). To think Graf losing or not losing to Seles in the French Open final would somehow tie into her not choking vs Graf in the Wimbledon final on grass in her strange competitive brain is so laughable.
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
I wrote "BEFORE Wimbledon06".
What if Federer had played a 15 year old Nadal in an early round like Graf did with Seles?
Federer would've beaten him EASILY, so that has absolutely no relevance.
If Nadal had retired before Wimbledon 2006 no one would ever give him credit as having a good game for grass or troubling Federer on the surface.
Had Seles kept working on her game and beating Graf on all other slams she likely would'v beaten Graf eventually, and all other players would not have choked as much against Graf.
LOL Seles in 92 was where Nadal was in 2006 if not further along keeping in mind women prime MUCH earlier than men. If I have to explain this to you if you are someone who follows tennis closely (as you seem to)then that would be sad. An 18 and a half year old early blooming women who had been dominating tennis for almost two years has less development left than a barely 20 year old boy who clearly had not primed on non clay surfaces yet. Yet Nadal in 2006 was already much more of a threat to the best (Federer) on grass than Seles was by 1992, inspite of her place in the Wimbledon final (which wouldnt have happened if she were in Graf's half with Sabatini and Capriati anyway). If Monica was going to have this monstrous spike in her grass court game she wouldnt have performed so absymally on it after the stabbing either. The stabbing gives her some leighweigh of her post stabbing performances, but in no way can it be an excuse to justify for regularly losing 2nd and 3rd round at Wimbledon and looking completely out to sea on it, sorry.
Seles was no lock to beat Graf in the other slams either. She has never beaten Graf on a fast surface, so if Graf managed to make a U.S Open final which she wasnt doing during her massive 90-92 slump but began doing again in 93-96 I would favor her over Seles there. Their 92 French Open final was incredibly close, and on clay overall they were a pretty even match throughout their careers when they played. Monica had perfect luck with health and no injuries or illness whatsoever in the early 90s. This would not have lasted forever, in fact before the stabbing she already had her first serious illness which caused her to miss 6 weeks and makes it doubtful already she was going to be at her best for that years French. After the stabbing she had more injuries, and one would be a fool to think each of these were directly related to the stabbing somehow. The absolute perfect situation she had in the couple pre stabbing years: no injuries or illness at all, winning all the extremely close matches in slams even with her incredible mental toughness (91 AO semis and final, 91 U.S semis, 92 FO semis and final and 4th round), Graf losing before the finals so often, the other top players of the time being worse matchups for Graf than her, would not have lasted forever. Graf would have begun beating Seles in other slam finals before Monica would ever beat Graf in a Wimbledon final (that is if she even managed to play Graf in another Wimbledon final ever again).
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dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
One point likely decided that match.
Had Seles beaten Graf in the FO of 93 Graf would known that her era was over for good.
You can't tell me that a Novotna with a bit more confidence couldn't have won that point against a Graf with far less confidence.
feetofclay
Semi-Pro
How can Nadal be included in a poll about the luckiest player over the last 15 years? He was 8 years old fifteen years ago. Federer would only have been 13.
grafselesfan
Banned
You really dont understand tennis at all if you think a Novotna-like personality would have a bit more confidence when playing Graf on grass in a Wimbledon fianl, based on whether or not Graf was the reigning French Open Champion or reigning overall World #1 or not. I am not even going to bother arguing this futher as you are just making me laugh now.
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
Seles was fat and depressed for most of the time after the stabbing. Graf on the other hand went from struggling to a second dominace. Don't forget how mental tennis is, especially on the WTA.
Seles wouldn't even have needed to beat Graf on the fast surfaces. It would've made a big enough difference if players like Novotna won matches against Graf. That way Graf would've lost her choking inducing aura very quickly.
I'm not saying that Seles would've won all of Graf's slams or that Graf would've had no chance to win another slam, but their career statistics would been very different.
Details don't even matter and are a matter of opinion anyway, fact is that Graf is definately the most lucky player in the poll options.
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dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
Don't kid yourself, even a lucky netcord or a broken string in the game at 4-1 in the second could've decided that match.
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You are bringing up Novotna yet again. Talk about desperate straw grasping. Novotna came close to beating Graf in a slam only once after the Seles stabbing, the 93 Wimbledon final. Grafselesfan has already covered Jana. You really dont understand anything about her and her mentality as a player if you think she miracelously starts beating Graf with Seles around. Anyway Jana was no threat whatsoever to Graf on any surface other than grass, and Graf on grass is still most times too good for her even if she doesnt choke at all. Graf has always owned Jana, and the 93 Wimbledon final is one of the only times Jana ever had a chance to choke the match.
I was never going to bring up Novotna as she isnt even that important in the big picture here. However since you insist on bringing her up in your straw grasping attempt at a point I will go ahead and say Jana in fact is a tougher matchup for Seles than she is for Graf. Despite that Jana is older, the early blooming Seles was much closer to her prime already than the very late blooming Novotna in the early 90s. Novotna was nowhere near the player she would be from 93-98 yet. Seles still had a hard time beating her though, having to go 3 sets with her on a very slow hard court in the Australian Open final which is one of Jana's worst surfaces, and probably would have lost if Novotna didnt run out of gas. Their other match also went 3 sets. Then in their post stabbing meetings where Seles was schooling players like Sanchez Vicario and Martinez just as she did pre stabbing she was regularly losing to Novotna, even on clay. So Jana is a bigger problem for Seles than she is or even would have been for Graf.
grafselesfan
Banned
and how would a broken string or a lucky netchord in the Wimbledon final between Graf and Novotna have been dicated by whether or not Graf lost in the French Open final to Seles exactly, LOL! Also this is the same Novotna who once lost to Chanda freaking Rubin from 5-0, 40-0 up in the final set in a slam match. I guess this was because of Rubin's aura of dominance of the tour.
This is also the same Novotna who lost from two breaks up in the final set of the U.S Open semis to a slumping out of sorts Hingis. Your reasoning really has no reasoning here.dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
She would never have beaten Graf regularly, but there's no doubt that she could've won the 93 final.
If I told you before the 94 RG that Pierce would make Graf look like an amateur (after winning 1 game the year before at the USO) you would've laughed too. Tennis isn't always predictable.
Fact is Graf was struggling before Seles got stabbed, in this kind of situation, with an additional loss to Seles at the FO (which I think would've been likely), there's a realistic chance that Graf would not have won Wimbledon in 93, which would've further reduced her confidence and aura.
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S
Serendipitous
Guest
Roger Federer.
navratilovafan
Banned
Jennifer Capriati.
T
TheMagicianOfPrecision
Guest
Mark Philippoussis
GustafsonFanatic
Banned
Federer and Nadal got more votes than Graf!
ROFLMAO!!!
ROFLMAO!!!
lambielspins
Banned
Why would Graf get many votes? You dont get lucky to be the greatest women player of all time.
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
As in most polls here, it's mostly a battle of haters.
cuddles26
Banned
Gunther Parche made her the greatest women player of all time. Congrats to him though, he amazingly seems to have fooled most people.
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
Sad to think that he got exactly what he wanted. It could not have turned out any better, not for him and not for Graf.
cuddles26
Banned
Exactly. Graf would currently be a second tier all time great overshadowed in the history books and peoples mind by all of Navratilova, Evert, Court, Seles herself, possibly Connolly, soon Serena even. Instead she is now the consensus GOAT to most people, and the stabbing is brushed off as a minor and even forgotten incident as reflected by the generous assumptions most for her when generalizing the what ifs. He achieved exactly what he wanted for both him and Graf. Sometimes the bad guys do win.
S
srinrajesh
Guest
definitely agree with that point...if seles had reached her peak around 93-94 she would have racked up a lot of wins over graf which would have given her confidence to beat graf at wimbledon....
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
Cup8489
G.O.A.T.
yeah, and i wonder how much serena would achieve if she had a real rival in her time. its too bad she cant win anything but majors, and it's too bad that when a real rival shows up in Clijsters she freaks out because of her own mistake..
yeah, I think serena just blows, and your suggestion that she's the greatest is just completely lame. Power isn't everything.
I agree; he has nothing to show on clay, yet somehow he is in the GOAT reckoning. He was lucky that he did not have even one contender of the caliber of nadal on one surface he was good at.
Fed, OTOH, is unlucky that he has the possible GOAT of clay play in his era.. and some morons want to call him "lucky"
GustafsonFanatic
Banned
She won 3 Frenchies and 1 Aussie in Monica's absence. Without those 4, she has 18, just like Martina and already her status as female GOAT is questionable.
This is the least we can say. We can also speculate whether Seles would figure her out at US Open or perhaps even Wimby.
GustafsonFanatic
Banned
Actually, i am not even discussing whether Graf is the luckiest player of all time.
I am simply asking how Federer and Nadal are luckier than Graf, since they got more votes.
I am simply asking how Federer and Nadal are luckier than Graf, since they got more votes.
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Mr. Tennis
Banned
Was he lucky that dude was not around from the beginning? Would he have won as many slams?
Could say the same about any player surely?
lambielspins
Banned
First of all Graf won only 2 French Opens in Monica's absence. Secondly Monica was not going to win 10 French Opens in a row, or even 6 in a row most likely. Someone was going to have to take a couple of those from her. Considering Hingis (who may well have been a worse matchup for Monica than Graf) underperformed at the French and never won it, that was sure as heck going to be Graf before it was going to be any of Sanchez (great player but Monica's pigeon), Majoli, or Martinez. As for the Australian Open Monica is generally superior there, but in the 94 AO final Graf played one of her best matches ever and would have beaten anyone, including Monica. The other years Graf was injured and didnt play Australia or was ineffective due to injury, so it really doesnt matter in the end that Monica is superior there as Graf wouldnt have many chances anyway.
Mr. Tennis
Banned
If Federer was lucky that Nadal was not ound since the beginning then following that line of logic Nadal is the unluckiest player because he has had to face Federer in every grand slam.
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