Today I practiced the Forehand Slice

KenC · Jan 5, 2010

As a young lad in the late 70's early 80's I used to hit a forehand slice every now and then, mostly on DTL approach shots to keep the ball low. Coaches used to actually teach that shot. Now that I have returned to tennis in middle life I see that the FH slice is no longer part of today's power game. Just for fun I spent some time with my coach today resurrecting the FH slice and trying to put some power behind it.

I found that instead of hitting it just like a slice backhand, I got better results hitting it sorta' like a volley, just much harder. In other words, the racket went from high to low, but did not return high. I used a moderate forward swing with a slightly open face and a conti grip. I would say the difference between the highest point and the lowest point of the swing was about 12 inches, so the racquet path was more forward than vertical.

Anyone still teach the FH slice out there? Any suggestions?

I think I will start to practice the FH slice DTL for approach shots and CC into the service box corner for extreme angles. It seems somewhat easier to hit that corner with slice than with heavy topspin, which is how I normally go to that angle for passing shots or winners.

dman72 · Jan 5, 2010

The guys at my club call this my "signature shot"...I really think that my signature shot is the forehand down the line that is 2 feet out, but that's another story.

On sitters to the middle of the court..especially after having hit a few forehands out when trying to crush them

...I will hit a side spin/underspin shot that lands near the sideline and spins away from my opponent. Guys who aren't used to seeing this shot can have a hard time with it, and they often net it or pop up a floater. I used something between an eastern forehand and continental, short chopping stroke with an open racquet face, hitting the ball at around 4 o'clock or so.

Of course better players slice it viciously cross court or have better footwork and can get under it with topspin backhands, but at my level you really can never slice enough, on either wing.

Xenakis · Jan 5, 2010

I like this shot too, not sure why it isn't used more.

Santoro is/was the only player who routinely hit a f/h slice (I think.) He uses two hands on his forehand and slices more or less all the time, while on his backhand he tends to hit a more conventional topspin drive.

Other than that I think people teach it as a running defensive shot, or the 'squash shot'.

I've been trying out the Santoro two handed f/h slice, can't do it yet but I'll keep trying.

dman72 · Jan 5, 2010

Xenakis said:
I like this shot too, not sure why it isn't used more.

Santoro is/was the only player who routinely hit a f/h slice (I think.) He uses two hands on his forehand and slices more or less all the time, while on his backhand he tends to hit a more conventional topspin drive.

Other than that I think people teach it as a running defensive shot, or the 'squash shot'.

I've been trying out the Santoro two handed f/h slice, can't do it yet but I'll keep trying.

It isn't used more because few pros use it other than on defense.

At an intermediate level, slice is very effective, especially against guys who train hitting waist high balls with semi western grips and a lot of topspin, who don't have good footwork and aren't used to a ball that dies when it lands. The guy with the highest winning percentage in my league hits slice almost exclusively on both sides unless he's trying to lob you.

I'm one of those guys who loves to hit hard with topspin, but honestly, if I wanted to win a higher percentage against the guys I'd play, I'd slice everything on both sides except in passing shots.

raiden031 · Jan 5, 2010

I think its odd that its not really taught. I mean it is very important as a defensive shot because you can't always hit a topspin drive when barely reaching the ball on the run, or when it only bounces to knee height. I find myself hitting this shot alot against shotmakers.

Ripper014 · Jan 5, 2010

I used it on approach shots and to change things up. One of the reasons I like to use it as an approach shot is that it gives me a little more time to get into a good net position, it also keeps the ball down and has a little movement on it.

But like the OP I am also from the 70's and old habits are just hard to break.

smoothtennis · Jan 5, 2010

IMHO this is a great shot to have as it keeps the ball low, and is deadly accurate due to the firm racket face before and at contact. I use it for DTL a lot. Also, it is very easy once you can hit this shot well, to take pace off for a short low ball which usually nets a weak pop up from a guy on the run.

Once you show an opponent you are hitting it DTL every so often - they will naturally start to cover the DTL, and since the racket face isn't moving around much - it is very easy to wrong-foot someone by changing the racket face's angle at the last second.

KenC · Jan 5, 2010

My coach and I discussed the utility of this shot after our session. We came up with some interesting thoughts, such as:

-This would be a great shot against players who don't like to bend their knees on shots.
-This is a good shot to pull out periodically to disrupt rhythm.
-Its a good shot against topspin monkeys and those with western grips.
-It starts out looking somewhat like a drop shot, so the opponent thinks drop shot and then has to quickly change to a ball with a good deal of pace.
-After hitting a few hard slices, then the drop shot is a good idea.
-Its a good shot when you are pushed way back as there is more time for recovery and the slice can be hit harder and higher over the net and still land in.

The other thing is that I'm a lefty, so I can hit this CC over the shortest part of the net to my opponents BH. This should allow me a little more margin for error.

Xenakis · Jan 5, 2010

dman72 said:
It isn't used more because few pros use it other than on defense.

At an intermediate level, slice is very effective, especially against guys who train hitting waist high balls with semi western grips and a lot of topspin, who don't have good footwork and aren't used to a ball that dies when it lands. The guy with the highest winning percentage in my league hits slice almost exclusively on both sides unless he's trying to lob you.

I'm one of those guys who loves to hit hard with topspin, but honestly, if I wanted to win a higher percentage against the guys I'd play, I'd slice everything on both sides except in passing shots.

Agreed about it being effective at an intermediate level. When I've played people better than me that play with a lot of topspin and hit the ball hard they don't seem used to digging out low sliced balls, especially if there is sidespin on them too.

One player said to me after losing a few points 'this is like playing mini-tennis.'

As I get better (hopefully) I intend to keep using slices on both 'wings', not all the time though obviously.

dman72 · Jan 5, 2010

Xenakis said:
Agreed about it being effective at an intermediate level. When I've played people better than me that play with a lot of topspin and hit the ball hard they don't seem used to digging out low sliced balls, especially if there is sidespin on them too.

One player said to me after losing a few points 'this is like playing mini-tennis.'

As I get better (hopefully) I intend to keep using slices on both 'wings', not all the time though obviously.

Yep. I really need to stop being such a knuckle head against the top-spin guys in my league..there's one in particular who I try to hit with from the baseline, and it's an exercise in futility....he's just more consistent at bashing then me.

Every time I went to hitting the junk against him in our last match, I won points..but when I see him getting frustrated, part of my self consciousness wants to show him that I don't only hit that way, and then I fall back into the trap of feeling that hitting slice junk balls is somehow "inferior" tennis. Next time I'm throwing all pride into the wind and hitting everything with a continental grip, slice only!!

Power Player · Jan 5, 2010

I hit forehand slices for winners all the time. I set it up with power.

The best combo for this is a forehand crosscourt followed by a DTL forehand slice. It spins to the side so it is bouncing away from the opponent. They basically have to run all the way across the court at topspeed to have a chance at it, and then hit a return that somehow I won't just volley to the other side.

GuyClinch · Jan 5, 2010

Your better off using that practice time to hit bigger harder topspin forehands IMHO. There is a reason so few pros use the shot.. Any half-assed not quite perfect underspin forehand is going to get smashed by a decent player.

UnforcedError · Jan 5, 2010

Power Player said:
I hit forehand slices for winners all the time. I set it up with power.

The best combo for this is a forehand crosscourt followed by a DTL forehand slice. It spins to the side so it is bouncing away from the opponent. They basically have to run all the way across the court at topspeed to have a chance at it, and then hit a return that somehow I won't just volley to the other side.

That sounds like an extremely difficult shot to hit unless you are in such a superior position that anything would work and even then there has to be a higher percentage shot to use to finish off the point. I can't even remember seeing a down the line forehand slice winner (DTLFSW for short) ever but I'll start looking for one.

As for the rest of the thread I do see how a forehand slice approach could be effective although for me unless I can't get under the ball because it is too short and I'm stretched, going over the ball is the most effective shot. I will hit backhand slice approaches but it is relatively easier for me to slice a backhand.

bhupaes · Jan 5, 2010

When I fixed my backhand slice to use the right mechanics, I noticed a great improvement in my backhand volley - the feel was very similar in both strokes. I don't know why doing it from the baseline was easier to start with - perhaps it was because I didn't have to worry about the backswing or follow through.

Although I don't hit a forehand slice in match play except as a last ditch attempt at defense, I am practicing the forehand slice from the baseline in the hopes that it will have a similar effect on my forehand volley. The mechanics of the forehand volley seem to be almost identical, except the volley has no backswing and the follow through is abbreviated.

user92626 · Jan 5, 2010

IMO, even the BH slice is nearly worthless as an offensive shot, and you can slice BH much harder than you do FH. So, naturally, the FH slice has been discarded the way Lenin was.

Your time is better spent in honing FH topspin, pace and placement.

tennisdad65 · Jan 5, 2010

I am old school, slice/flat most of the time, some topspin while rallying and lots of topspin mainly for passing shots.
I think forehand slice has its use mainly for squash and approach shots. Use it to often in modern tennis at 4.5+ and you will get killed.

On the other hand, if you hit it hard and flat with a bit of underspin like connors did, you will be fine.

LeeD · Jan 5, 2010

Yeah, Connors owned that shot, slight sidespin with underspin, skidding away from a right hander's forehand, low and weird bounce. Best on grass, good on concrete, hard to do well on clay or slower high bouncing surfaces.
I thought I would work on that shot a month ago, but instead decided better to work on earlier pronation of serves.
Rome wasn't built in a day, and my tennis game is quite incomplete after 33 years.

crash1929 · Jan 5, 2010

i saw this guy at the club who played number one for an ivy league school hitting the other day. he was rallying and hitting HIGH over the net. the highest over the net I've ever seen anyone at the club hit. he then was throwing in some slice fh's down the line. i like the shot and am starting to use it.

if in fact the bh slice is actually used for something strategically by federer (and not just a weak defensive shot) then why cant the fh slice be used for strategic reasons as well? I can remember the last time i saw a pro hit one though.

Hardserve · Jan 5, 2010

Secret to a Forehand Slice Drive ?

It's interesting what the guys are saying about Connor's using this old school shot
as I didn't know Connors used it, I not watched alot of his matches so I wouldn't
know. But that's interesting to know..

FOREHAND BACKSPIN DRIVE

One of the slice weapons against topspin drivers.

All it is a aggressive volley punched through the court away from the net and can be
used inside the baseline off serves as a return of serve. (defense shot).

Any coach or advanced player can correct me if I'm loading up wrong but here's how I do it

Like how Roger Federer keeps his arm in the backswing for his forehand to generate power. Well
its the same with the forehand volley which I use to slice the ball with from inside the baseline.

I keep my racquet in the backswing when I move to the ball until the last second when I need to hit it
then only then wll I actually execute the punch to do the slice. It is a volley shot, so guys, you need
a good volley to slice the ball like that with the pace. if you have no volley, its not recommended
trying this until you learn how to volley.

KenC · Jan 6, 2010

user92626 said:
IMO, even the BH slice is nearly worthless as an offensive shot, and you can slice BH much harder than you do FH. So, naturally, the FH slice has been discarded the way Lenin was.

Your time is better spent in honing FH topspin, pace and placement.

I have to disagree. There are too many players out there with one-dimensional games that will get consistently crushed by players that are marginally better than them, even if they too are one-dimensional. Tennis is a game of strategy, not power, yet today everyone just wants to show how hard they can hit the ball.

The argument that the pros don't use slice is also baseless. I see Federer and Nadal hit backhand slice consistently throughout their matches. Every now and then Pros hit FH slice chip shots to approach the net. Even the Pros know that being one-dimensional is an easy way to make your opponent comfortable. So, they mix it up to keep them off balance.

Even if the Pros prefer hard hit topspin, they are Pros, and we are not. Not even close. If anyone on this board tried to outmuscle Federer with hard topspin he would be double bageled and laughed of the court. For any of us to beat Federer we need strategy that keeps him off balance.

Lastly, an intelligent tennis player would develop his skills to have a variety of shots that he could choose at any moment to best match the situation he is in. This goes beyond topspin groundstrokes to include flat driving shots, drop shots, slice approach shots, hard hit, low slice shots ala Connors, floating slice shots for recovery, etc. Then there's net play...

Oh, and for those baseline topspin monkeys who seem to love to consistently hit me waist high balls, thank you for the easy matches, but its getting really boring beating you.

user92626 · Jan 6, 2010

"Every now and then Pros hit FH slice chip shots to approach the net."

Show me a clip where pros do that in a match.

"Even if the Pros prefer hard hit topspin, they are Pros, and we are not. Not even close."

Sounds like a cop-out response. The sky is the limit on the advanced side. I guess it's also limitless in the opposite direction. LOL. Anyway, I don't see how I can use reasoning with you. Go on with your game, then.

Hardserve · Jan 6, 2010

KenC said:
I have to disagree. There are too many players out there with one-dimensional games that will get consistently crushed by players that are marginally better than them, even if they too are one-dimensional. Tennis is a game of strategy, not power, yet today everyone just wants to show how hard they can hit the ball.

The argument that the pros don't use slice is also baseless. I see Federer and Nadal hit backhand slice consistently throughout their matches. Every now and then Pros hit FH slice chip shots to approach the net. Even the Pros know that being one-dimensional is an easy way to make your opponent comfortable. So, they mix it up to keep them off balance.

Even if the Pros prefer hard hit topspin, they are Pros, and we are not. Not even close. If anyone on this board tried to outmuscle Federer with hard topspin he would be double bageled and laughed of the court. For any of us to beat Federer we need strategy that keeps him off balance.

Lastly, an intelligent tennis player would develop his skills to have a variety of shots that he could choose at any moment to best match the situation he is in. This goes beyond topspin groundstrokes to include flat driving shots, drop shots, slice approach shots, hard hit, low slice shots ala Connors, floating slice shots for recovery, etc. Then there's net play...

Oh, and for those baseline topspin monkeys who seem to love to consistently hit me waist high balls, thank you for the easy matches, but its getting really boring beating you.

I have to agree with all of that because it goes way beyond just the basic foundation of topspin and flat drives, slice and backspin is a big part of the game as well for a well developed player that's why I moved out of boring Driving of Topspin and moving more into acquiring slice weapons in my game to add variety because that's boring when everybody else in the club is doing all that basic stuff at my level, while the top players in the club are all using the volley more to counterpunch and slice with.

Reason why Slice and backspin is better even though topspin is good is because
topspin has a certain timing, so does slice, and so does backspin.

Now I come along and start doing forehand slices at my level and the players are all basic topspin drivers and they just hit the ball too hard anyway, they say hey that's new, what is this shot then. Then They find out its a weapon and they don't like it because they can't easily time back a backspin ball that skids through the court instead of bouncing up and giving them time, still they try to topspin it. Or swing more wildly at it Sigh...

Yes I have seen some pros use forehand slice to chip at the net and that worked for me also against guys at my level who can't even volley from inside the midcourt because they too busy being comfortable staying up close at net on the volley in the doubles that they never bothered to develop anything new to defend in the midcourt except for spooning the ball up in the air out of control allowing me to get an easy overhead when I chip the ball with the forehand slice in there..

Federer selects his shots pretty carefully and he aint a one dimensional player. He might even have a fourth dimension because the guy has so many dimensions in his game.

I think Federer does use the forehand slice as a drive approach sometimes, he does get that ball down there quickly.

BreakPoint · Jan 6, 2010

I also hit forehand slice approach shots quite often. I mean, if a backhand slice approach shot works, why wouldn't a forehand slice approach shot? It's essentially the same shot but down the other sideline. And against a right-handed opponent, it goes to their backhand and if they use a 2HBH, they can have trouble digging up a low skidding slice, and even if they do, they'll most likely pop it up which gives you the easy putaway volley at the net.

trenzterra · Jan 6, 2010

Well I think the forehand slice has been used more frequently on the tour in the past year. Or at least I keep seeing Federer using it now, often as a dropshot.

I too really like using the forehand slice.

Hardserve · Jan 6, 2010

BreakPoint said:
I also hit forehand slice approach shots quite often. I mean, if a backhand slice approach shot works, why wouldn't a forehand slice approach shot? It's essentially the same shot but down the other sideline. And against a right-handed opponent, it goes to their backhand and if they use a 2HBH, they can have trouble digging up a low skidding slice, and even if they do, they'll most likely pop it up which gives you the easy putaway volley at the net.

Well for me it hits faster than my one hand backhand slice because it zips through very flat with backspin
like a drive. Yeah that backpin can trouble these guys to their backhand, and because it skids through and
dosen't bounce up and hang like topspin does to give them time to set, it gives them less time to time their swings.

LMAO Now you become a time robber.

it can be used to hit that big penetrating slice drive or to hit Federer's Favourite Tactic, a shallow chip shot over the net in the midcourt area which stuffs up alot of his opponents who like to drive big from the baseline now have to scramble up into the midcourt off balance to try to dig up a very low chip shot and they spoon it up weak and his opponents just go up like a balooon when they give him a sitter.

I tried it on A-grade guys in my club, and it worked like a charm, I was surprised how effective it was. Here the Front Guy with the volley stays close up at the net, while the back guy is on the baseline expecting topspin drives. I Sent a dipping chip shot over the net down into the midcourt area. the net guy missed it as he has no volley to cover from down there because hes been only doing his volleys up close at net up high so hes stuffed.

Now the back guy is in trouble because his front charge had missed the ball, also because the back guy
is still in a daydream thinking hes still getting a drive that bounces up for him and gives him plenty of time to
set & swing LMAO, instead its a soft shallow chip shot low in the midcourt, he is forced to now have to suddenly scramble in from the baseline running in all off balance so he spoons the ball. LMAO... I saw alot of
spooning from them that day when I hit those chip shots..

KenC · Jan 6, 2010

This all started late summer when I started playing often at a local park where there is a great group of regulars. One player in particular is a classic old-school player, you know the type, uses only a conti grip and is able to hit slice, flat, topspin with it, and is an all-court player. No one can beat him, and he is in his mid 40's. He has incredible shot variety, from missiles to delicate drop shots. And he plays pure strategy. What drives everyone crazy is that his shots rarely go above our knees. So, if we don't really develop our knee bends, we're screwed. His BH slice is low, fast, deep and deadly accurate. He also hits these FH chip shots to approach the net with that are impossible to do anything with except a lob. It's actually a great pleasure to play against him because he makes me elevate my game at least a couple levels just to not look like an idiot.

Anyway, it made me think that power isn't everything. And watching these younger Nadal wannabe's screaming in frustration against him is proof. The ability to force opponents to play outside of their safety zone is a major advantage at the mortal level. What bothers me so much about Federer is that he has all the shots, but refuses to play the less powerful shots against ball crushers like Del Potro and Nadal. He wants to be the more powerful player even if it costs him the match. Well, I've learned from his mistake and am now going to accumulate other shots that effectively neutralize stronger players. And I prefer to hit hard FH slice shots than resort to pushing moonballs!

DNShade · Jan 6, 2010

The forehand (and backhand) slice is a GREAT weapon at all levels. It can be a VERY offensive shot and you are starting to see it used more and more at pro levels now as well. It is a very tough shot for most players to handle today with W and SW grips. Forces a lot of errors and is a great approach shot of either side.

The reason I'm assuming most people are posting here that they would "eat a forehand slice shot up" is because they haven't faced a real forehand slice shot. We aren't talking about a floating, slow shot with backspin - we are talking about a driven, hard shot that skids through the court and doesn't bounce hardly at all. This shot is hit about as hard as most topspin drives - it just stays extremely low.

There was a reason that Fabrice was able to stay on the tour for so long. This is the reason. It's a wonderful shot and should be part of your arsenal.

KenC · Jan 6, 2010

^^That is a key point. Thee is a big difference in a well hit, hard FH slice and the typical FH slice pop up that we hit in desperation when pulled out really wide.

What I am trying to do is create the equivalent of a good backhand slice on the FH side.

ttbrowne · Jan 6, 2010

I use this occasionally in doubles (3.5-4.0) as an approach shot. It's got to have be a deep shot though.

Mixed doubles: This shot seems to throw women off for some reason. They don't see it often.

dman72 · Jan 6, 2010

I know first hand how tough those low skidding slice shots can be, and I'm adopting the "if you can't beat em, join em" philosophy. I've had tremendous difficulty on my backhand side with slices hit with some zip, and now I've noticed that many people I play have the same troubles.

jrod · Jan 6, 2010

I agree. The FH slice is rather uncommon with the modern players, which is partly why it is so effective. I'd much rather have someone hit me a topspin drive than a good penetrating, skidding FH slice. At 53, my knees don't always cooperate and I find myself improvising more often with these kind of balls...leading to more unforced errors.

I really need to practice this shot more for offensive purposes. It's definitely a shot I don't "own" but could benefit from. I use slice far more off my BH wing than I do on the FH side. The added variety on the FH wing would provided additional weaponry to my game.

Steady Eddy · Jan 6, 2010

I recall of friend of mine bitterly complaining about losing to a older player who hit some forehand slices. He said that to him there was no such shot. Instead of convincing me that it was an unfair shot, it convinced me that it was a good shot to learn. It's good to be able to hit slice off of both sides.

LeeD · Jan 6, 2010

and don't forget, most Men's pros also use a forehand slice, almost a slapshot, to return really wide gets to their forehands. As in the backhand wide get, it allows you more time to get into position, it changes the spin, bounce and pace from your normal forehand, and it takes less physical effort to hit than a topspin shot.

Power Player · Jan 6, 2010

UnforcedError said:
That sounds like an extremely difficult shot to hit unless you are in such a superior position that anything would work and even then there has to be a higher percentage shot to use to finish off the point. I can't even remember seeing a down the line forehand slice winner (DTLFSW for short) ever but I'll start looking for one.

This is what happens when I am tired and don't fully read. I should clarify that the shot I was attempting to describe is really a drop shot. I never hit a forehand slice for a winner, but I dropshot from my forehand side in the situation I described previously. I just consider it a slice, but it really is a dropshot.

My drop shot bounces at least twice before the service line and spins out towards the doubles alley if I hit it properly.

There is a guy I play with who is older that DOES hit forehand slices for winners. He uses 2 hands and chops down aggressively. Not only is the shot super tough to return, but it actually has some power and he hits clean winners and finishes points with it.

A rule of thumb for me is to return a slice with a slice. This guy loves to slice me and watch me try and topspin the shot back..so I dont. I try my best to hit a better slice return so I get something that will sit a bit higher next shot.

UnforcedError · Jan 6, 2010

Power Player said:
This is what happens when I am tired and don't fully read. I should clarify that the shot I was attempting to describe is really a drop shot. I never hit a forehand slice for a winner, but I dropshot from my forehand side in the situation I described previously. I just consider it a slice, but it really is a dropshot.

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying it.

To all the people that say Federer is now using a forehand slice for anything other than a drop shot or a last ditch squash shot to get back in the point can you please post youtube videos because I have yet to see it.

The reason why you see a lot of people slice backhands and not forehands is the relative ease which you can do it on that side. The forehand slice is not about to make a comeback on the pro tour. Not many pros are going to chose to "mix it up" with a forehand slice and give up the opportunity to take control of a point coming over their forehand.

I'm not against a forehand slice I just think the relative difficulty of the shot especially if you have a semi western grip relative to other alternatives makes it a low percentage play for most people.

LeeD · Jan 6, 2010

I'm closer to 4.0 levels, and use the SW forehand squash/slap quite often, maybe twice a set, on balls hit into my doubles alley, and after a long run, need some time to recover and get back into semi position. Usually hit to my opponent's weaker side, it certainly helps getting back into position, plus I can snap thru the shot really hard, imparting lots of back/sidespin on the ball.
Not something I'd do regularly, as the opponent would get used to it.

user92626 · Jan 6, 2010

UnforcedError said:
That makes sense, thanks for clarifying it.

To all the people that say Federer is now using a forehand slice for anything other than a drop shot or a last ditch squash shot to get back in the point can you please post youtube videos because I have yet to see it.
The reason why you see a lot of people slice backhands and not forehands is the relative ease which you can do it on that side.

The forehand slice is not about to make a comeback on the pro tour. Not many pros are going to chose to "mix it up" with a forehand slice and give up the opportunity to take control of a point coming over their forehand.
I'm not against a forehand slice I just think the relative difficulty of the shot especially if you have a semi western grip relative to other alternatives makes it a low percentage play for most people.

LOL. Good luck with that request, man. Since my post above, there'd been many disagreement but none could produce such an example. Lots of hot air around here.

dozu · Jan 6, 2010

KenC said:
I found that instead of hitting it just like a slice backhand, I got better results hitting it sorta' like a volley, just much harder. In other words, the racket went from high to low, but did not return high. I used a moderate forward swing with a slightly open face and a conti grip. I would say the difference between the highest point and the lowest point of the swing was about 12 inches, so the racquet path was more forward than vertical.

the BH slice works the same way, and should also be executed like a volley. This is simple physics and geometry applied to tennis.

racket path more inline with target line, more force is applied to the ball, more penetration, more margin for error.

Netspirit · Jan 6, 2010

I wonder if Taylor Dent or Ivan Navarro used the FH slice in their USO'09 epic. If even pure S&Vs don't use it for approaches, probably nobody else does.

user92626 · Jan 6, 2010

dozu said:
the BH slice works the same way, and should also be executed like a volley. This is simple physics and geometry applied to tennis.

racket path more inline with target line, more force is applied to the ball, more penetration, more margin for error.

No, I do not execute the bh slice like a volley. I slice it hard and it comes over with side spin. The pace is only enough to place it deep and safe. Slice volley is hardly that aggressive. It's more for absorbing force and for placement.

Hardserve · Jan 6, 2010

DNShade said:
The forehand (and backhand) slice is a GREAT weapon at all levels. It can be a VERY offensive shot and you are starting to see it used more and more at pro levels now as well. It is a very tough shot for most players to handle today with W and SW grips. Forces a lot of errors and is a great approach shot of either side.

The reason I'm assuming most people are posting here that they would "eat a forehand slice shot up" is because they haven't faced a real forehand slice shot. We aren't talking about a floating, slow shot with backspin - we are talking about a driven, hard shot that skids through the court and doesn't bounce hardly at all. This shot is hit about as hard as most topspin drives - it just stays extremely low.

There was a reason that Fabrice was able to stay on the tour for so long. This is the reason. It's a wonderful shot and should be part of your arsenal.

Yes, its the big flat penerating slice for the forehand, it's not the weaker side spin
slice that's done with a swing that floats in the air at 60-70 mph and then bounces off
to the side..... Instead its a fast penetrating drive done with a volley so it hits the ball
with more zip from 100-120 mph, more bigger and flatter and lower and likes people's
feet. Its very effective in doubles.

Hardserve · Jan 6, 2010

user92626 said:
No, I do not execute the bh slice like a volley. I slice it hard and it comes over with side spin. The pace is only enough to place it deep and safe. Slice volley is hardly that aggressive. It's more for absorbing force and for placement.

A good tennis player will make you hit the ball on the run.
Because they know if they can make you swing at the ball
on the run you're likely to hit the ball off balance.

Once they have you off balance you're stuffed.

papa · Jan 6, 2010

I still like to teach the forehand slice and I happen to think the shot is being used more and more these days. Its a great change of pace shot and very easy to control. However, if you overuse it, watch out.

GuyClinch · Jan 6, 2010

The reason I'm assuming most people are posting here that they would "eat a forehand slice shot up" is because they haven't faced a real forehand slice shot. We aren't talking about a floating, slow shot with backspin - we are talking about a driven, hard shot that skids through the court and doesn't bounce hardly at all. This shot is hit about as hard as most topspin drives - it just stays extremely low.

The problem is rec players aren't going to hit this shot. <g>

Hardserve · Jan 6, 2010

GuyClinch said:
The problem is rec players aren't going to hit this shot. <g>

Yeah that's right, it aint for the beginners the rec players probably won't beable to hit this shot with their downward chop as it aint a chop shot. You punch through the
ball. But you got to be taught the volley by a teaching pro on how to get your volley good enough first then you can be confident enough to try the forehand slice with it.

.

Hardserve · Jan 6, 2010

papa said:
I still like to teach the forehand slice and I happen to think the shot is being used more and more these days. Its a great change of pace shot and very easy to control. However, if you overuse it, watch out.

I use it for my return of serves if I don't have the time to do a full swing to
drive And use it on the weak slow stuff that drops short in the court or sits up.
But you got to give some time for the shot to first load up before you do the silce.

So its best to mix it up and bring it out every now and again in a rally
to use on any slow balls along with your topspin so you got time to
load the shot.

GuyClinch · Jan 6, 2010

Yeah that's right, it aint for the beginners the rec players probably won't beable to hit this shot with their downward chop as it aint a chop shot. You punch through the ball. But you got to be taught the volley by a teaching pro on how to get your volley good enough first then you can be confident enough to try the forehand slice with it.

Its worse then that. What your saying essentially is that hard flat shots are very effective. That's basically what a phenomenal forehand slice shot is. That why you have to hit through the ball more rather then chop down on it..

I am saying that it's really a waste of time for rec players to even practice this shot - unless your extremely dedicated. The precision required to hit it is too high. It's like practicing way beyond the three point line shots in basketball. Yes its effective when you can hit them. But so what.. 99% of players would be better off practicing layups and foul line extended jumpers or - a three in the corner.

What invariably happens to players who work on this 'junk' style of game is that they end up hit floaty shots - or they miss alot. That's simply the physics involved. Its just harder to hit this shot - much in the way its just harder to hit 3 point shots that are well beyond the arc.

At first it seems very effective because the change of pace will throw lessor opponents. But better opponents quickly adjust and can punish the floaty ones. And the hard driving ones you rave about aren't that easy to hit.

Learning topspin shots OTOH is not only easier - but its far more forgiving of a shot. If you don't have the angle face exactly right on contact you can stil hit a good shot. You can hit effective topspin shots even if you don't play for a month. Try that with those monster "hard slice" shots your advocating..

This of course is why Fabrice was the exception and not the rule and the local "slice and dicer" at the park gets pummeled by any and modern kid on the college team.

Rec tennis really is all about the execution. I'd rather have one absolute "weapon" then a bunch of mediocre 'variety'..
Sure don't get me wrong its pretty cool to see those 50 something guys out there slice and dicing people apart. But I wouldn't model my game after em. It takes crazy skill to hit those shots - and even then you still run into tons of guys you can't beat with the style..

Are you so good you already hit wicked topspin shots that kick up crazy off of clay - and give people trouble in normal rallies? Do you hit with so much pace and spin the ball seems to kinda knock people over? If so by all means learn this shot. But if your a beginner/low intermediate I seriously think it can take you down the wrong path.. YMMV.

Pete

KenC · Jan 7, 2010

Let's put this back in perspective. No one is advocating abandoning the topspin FH for slice. I personally spent too much time hitting thousands of topspin FHs to where I'm at the point where I feel comfortable wailing on them. I am not going to abandon a bread and butter shot.

Why do we spend time hitting BH slice? Why not instead wail on the BH with topspin? Because there is a time and place for BH slice. Why don't we just hit topspin serves? Because there is a time and place for slice serves.

Why is the forehand so different from the BH that slice is not needed? I personally drill 3:1 between my BH and FH just so that I don't have a weaker wing. Should I never hit a BH slice and continue to hit my BH harder with topspin?

Come on guys, tennis is becoming too one-dimensional. Let's add a little variety. Let's learn how to hit great approach shots and start to win points at the net again. Let's practice those lower percentage shots just to make the game more interesting. Just like the drop shot is having a resurgence in the last couple years, maybe a wicked slice FH may find its time and place on the court.

Hardserve · Jan 7, 2010

Are you so good you already hit wicked topspin shots that kick up crazy off of clay - and give people trouble in normal rallies? Do you hit with so much pace and spin the ball seems to kinda knock people over? If so by all means learn this shot. But if your a beginner/low intermediate I seriously think it can take you down the wrong path.. YMMV.

Pete[/QUOTE]

No, No, oh for goodness sake, its just an approach shot, a defense against serves. and chip up around
the net. If using the guy's pace, yes it can zip a bit. But you don't go for broke on it. You have to
feel the shot, no its not a replacement of the topspin forehand to move the guy around. It's the approach shot.

Spinz · Jan 7, 2010

DNShade said:
The reason I'm assuming most people are posting here that they would "eat a forehand slice shot up" is because they haven't faced a real forehand slice shot. We aren't talking about a floating, slow shot with backspin - we are talking about a driven, hard shot that skids through the court and doesn't bounce hardly at all. This shot is hit about as hard as most topspin drives - it just stays extremely low.

.

Many people here haven't seen a real forehand or backhand slice shot (or real heavy topspin) from a very advanced player. If they had, there wouldn't be so many of these male pro versus female pro threads.

Today I practiced the Forehand Slice

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