Genesis Black Magic

K

Kcraig

Professional
Have a set of 17g BM and 16g BM and am having a hard time deciding on which to use as a cross w/ Pacific Tough Gut 16g. The Pacific rep in town is wanting me to try the tough gut/polyforce hybrid, but the stiffness rating of 320 scares me a bit:-? Those who are using the BM as a cross--what gauge are using? I am coming from Pacific Classic/Topspin CybeRed 17g. The Topspin is nice, but outside the sweetspot it can be a bit jarring. Def not as soft as CyberBlue or even CF for that matter. Thanks in advance for the input!:)
 
PED

PED

Legend
Don't forget that the thinner 17g cross can act as a knife and cut through the mains quicker.
 
PED

PED

Legend
US mail is always so slow :(

Rain today but sunny tomorrow, I'm looking forward to getting out.
 
Orion

Orion

Semi-Pro
blackfrido said:
Orion,
I'm waiting for my order of NRG2 to use it mains with BM crosses.
I strung one racquet (M-Speed #1) with full bed of BM at 53, it feels dead!
I have long swings both sides (1HB) but the ball is always landing short which is good because does not go out, but too short.
I hope a multi like NRG2 helps to get more fell and pop.
Click to expand...

I think the NRG2/BM hybrid will give you good feel. You may wanna take the BM up to 54-55 in the crosses. I strung NRG2 @ 59 worked good in my 4D.

I'm not a fan of full poly. BM is good in the mains, but I've had a hard time finding a good cross with it. Can't put my finger on what it is but I get good results with it Head UltraTour17. It's stiffer than BM but I find it easier to play with a variety of crosses. I just cut out my high 50's BM hybrids and strung them up with Livewire/Lux M2 @ 56/56. Undecided on the other frame but I'm thinking BM/Gamma Syn in the mid 50's.
 
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PED

PED

Legend
That NRG/BM hybrid is going to play great, the only problem will likely be durability on that one. Please report back and let me know how long it lasts.
 
schenkelini

schenkelini

Semi-Pro
Kcraig said:
Have a set of 17g BM and 16g BM and am having a hard time deciding on which to use as a cross w/ Pacific Tough Gut 16g. The Pacific rep in town is wanting me to try the tough gut/polyforce hybrid, but the stiffness rating of 320 scares me a bit:-? Those who are using the BM as a cross--what gauge are using? I am coming from Pacific Classic/Topspin CybeRed 17g. The Topspin is nice, but outside the sweetspot it can be a bit jarring. Def not as soft as CyberBlue or even CF for that matter. Thanks in advance for the input!:)
Click to expand...

I would try the 17g. I have had great results with it and Gosen Micro.
 
Orion

Orion

Semi-Pro
PED said:
That NRG/BM hybrid is going to play great, the only problem will likely be durability on that one. Please report back and let me know how long it lasts.
Click to expand...

PED-

Long time no see. I strung my "singles" frame up with NRG2/BM but haven't been getting much singles in since. PowerPlayer siad he got good results (not with this hybrid) with tension around 62. I knew 62 was up there for me so I figured it was worth a try to creep up. The NRG2 is so soft that stringing it at 59 didn't bother me. The BM is holding it's own. Still playing indoors at least for the next few weeks. My concern with NRG2 is durability in the heat. It gets so soft that playability suffers. I plan on using it for a singles match today. Playing dubs right after and may keep playing it. I still love the feel of gut in the mains but I hate the fact that poly dies before the gut wears.

I created a spreadsheet to track how much time I'm getting from each setup. I know talk about anal :grin:
 
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PED

PED

Legend
Orion said:
I created a spreadsheet to track how much time I'm getting from each setup. I know talk about anal :grin:
Click to expand...

Welcome to the the club...lol. I started doing that last year. It really helps; I use it to record how much time I have on each set I'm currently using and then I also track how long previous setups lasted. As you know from having the Rad Pro, it does eat strings at a prodigious rate.

Right now, the temps have gone up and it was 71 today. I've actually dropped my tension on spinX after I began getting some elbow twinge. I'm using 53/51; I thought I would have some problems in the heat but the fact that the 16g is 1.31mm (hell, that's almost a 15g) gives it tons of spin. I've having to work EVEN less hard with the Rad and getting some nice action and nasty depth. I'm glad I pulled the pin and got a reel.

My all time fav setup was X1 mains and cyberflash crosses. Great spin and great power and feel...for the 90 minutes it lasted :) After I win the lottery, that's going to be my go to setup.
 
Orion

Orion

Semi-Pro
PED said:
Right now, the temps have gone up and it was 71 today. I've actually dropped my tension on spinX after I began getting some elbow twinge. I'm using 53/51; I thought I would have some problems in the heat but the fact that the 16g is 1.31mm (hell, that's almost a 15g) gives it tons of spin. I've having to work EVEN less hard with the Rad and getting some nice action and nasty depth. I'm glad I pulled the pin and got a reel.

My all time fav setup was X1 mains and cyberflash crosses. Great spin and great power and feel...for the 90 minutes it lasted :) After I win the lottery, that's going to be my go to setup.
Click to expand...

I just knew that 200mil Powerball was "earmarked" for me. Just checked my tix... not today anyway. Hopefully nobody hit so it'll be around $240mil on Wed.

The 56# jobs hit well during warmup but I played with the NRG2/BM setup. Nice bite especially after lying dormant in my bag the past few weeks and the tension drop. The NRG2/BM setup was biting nice but I couldn't take advantage because I sucked today. My legs just wouldn't move today and the 4D was of NO help. Split sets but only cause my opponent only had one frame and broke strings leading 6-4, 6-5:30-40. I let him use a spare 4D and told him the tide just turned now it was 2 against 1. So I guess the 4D did indirectly help me out :razz: because I took the set in the breaker.

I've been glancing in my bag at the Rad Pro but never pull the trigger. I'm currently having an affair with the PT280 every few sets.

My guess is I'll get another 6 hours (indoors) from the NRG2/BM setup...got 4 on it now. Pretty sure my next few jobs I'm going to drop the tension down a few pounds to the low 50's. I'm thinking full BM at a lower tension. I just hate to think about how quickly the soft multi's will go in the hot weather. Gut is calling me but, my pockets don't have ears. BTW some lucky SOB in NJ won my $200 mil.
 
schenkelini

schenkelini

Semi-Pro
PED said:
Did you use the 17g in the mains or crosses?

KCraig is using gut mains with poly crosses so durability could be a problem.
Click to expand...

The mains. I have also tried it in the crosses with Gaucho Gut mains. That played fantastic, but the gut popped after one 2 set match in my bag. I don't think the problem was the BM.
 
K

Kcraig

Professional
schenkelini said:
The mains. I have also tried it in the crosses with Gaucho Gut mains. That played fantastic, but the gut popped after one 2 set match in my bag. I don't think the problem was the BM.
Click to expand...

That would stink!! I am one of the lucky ones--I hit pretty flat, so with the gut mains setup and savers after 4-5hrs I can usually squeek out 10-12+hrs with my gut mains setups. I am currently trying Pacific Tough Gut 16g/Polyforce 16g hybrid. Had a very brief hit yeterday (some awesome mixed dubs-LOL). The feel is wonderful!! So much better/softer feeling than the cheaper Pacific Classic and Klip I have used inthe past! Am going to do a side by side comparison of the 16g BM and see how it measures up! I have a great Pacific connection here in town so I'm getting a good deal from him including stringing!! :)
 
JoelDali

JoelDali

Talk Tennis Guru
Got an 88 strung up with Genesis BM at 61# and not since I tried Adrenaline did I feel such fail in the 88.

I wonder why this stuff felt completely dead. Compared to Red17 or a full bed of ALU Rough this string had no feel whatsoever.

Perhaps the 88 just isn't happy with this stuff.

Shame, I was wanting to like it cuz the black looks sick in the 88.
 
Chris Rizutto

Chris Rizutto

Banned
JoelDali said:
Got an 88 strung up with Genesis BM at 61# and not since I tried Adrenaline did I feel such fail in the 88.

I wonder why this stuff felt completely dead. Compared to Red17 or a full bed of ALU Rough this string had no feel whatsoever.

Perhaps the 88 just isn't happy with this stuff.

Shame, I was wanting to like it cuz the black looks sick in the 88.
Click to expand...

Is Red17 or Alu Rough your favorite in the 88?
 
JoelDali

JoelDali

Talk Tennis Guru
It feels like Flouro 17 to the touch but softer, so I thought for sure it would be decent but dear God what a fail. I think the 88 begs for stiffer strings.

Red17 and ALUrough are the best for me in an 88. The JazzySetup was fun for two jobs but it lasted me like 4 hours so I'm back to Rough where I can get at least 8.

Flouro was amazing in the 88 at 62. I wonder why I abandoned it, oh yeah, because I have string ADD.

I think the most disgusting setup in the 88 would be VS Team in the Mains at 64 and Flouro at 60. Flouro is the all time most under rated string in history IMO.

I'm going to try that hybrid soon.

Need more Red17.

Hurry Wilson, please release some of the best string I've ever used.
 
R

Racer41c

Professional
PED said:
That NRG/BM hybrid is going to play great, the only problem will likely be durability on that one. Please report back and let me know how long it lasts.
Click to expand...

I'm currently playing with NRG 17 mains with SPPPP 17 crosses. Starting tension was 58/54. The setup works pretty well and I'm not seeing any notching or saw-through. The one thing I am finding is the NRG loses tension faster than the SPPPP which changes the feel of the string bed. The poly cross are "taking over" the feel of the racquet and transitioning from a Crisp feel to a Boardy feel.

So to me, it would seem like Gut mains with Poly cross should/would/could play longer and more consistently.
 
C

Chace

Hall of Fame
drakulie said:
^^It was in another thread, but it seems to be prevalent with a few posters who seem to think anytime someone writes a review (positive), they are somehow affiliated with the company. Oh, well.

anyway, thanks for your review, Bud.

I've been exclusivley playing with the Black Majic (full string job). It's a very solid string, with good feel, and playing characteristics.
Click to expand...

I played with black magic 17 gauge for the first time. I agree with you, it is a very solid string. Provides good feel, ball pocketing and pop. However the string only lasted about 4 hours of play before breaking. I do use a POG mid which as we all know eats strings, but i was curious about how many hours of play do you get out of the black magic. Thanks Chace.
 
C

Chace

Hall of Fame
How many hours of play do you guys get on average out of Black Magic 17g? I really like the string but have only been getting between 4 and 5 hours out of it before it breaks. Maybe i should give the 16g a try.
 
C

Chace

Hall of Fame
I am curious. To those that use black magic 17g how many hours do you get out of the string before it breaks. I am stringing it in a POG mid at 57 and get about 4 to 5 hours out of it
 
gflyer

gflyer

Professional
I think I finally found my perfect setup. :)
After a long time testing poly strings to use in the mains I found the perfect (for me) combination of comfort, feel, control, power and with pretty good tension maintenance.
I strung my Pure Storm Tour GT frames with Black Magic 17 mains @53lb and RIP Control 16 crosses at 55lb.
After stringing I get a DT reading of 38.
After ~6-8 hours is still 33-34.
I am very satisfied with BM. I think it is time to buy a reel.
Cheers.
g

PS My previous setup was Polystar Energy in the mains, but tension maintenance was horrible.
 
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Bud

Bud

Bionic Poster
gflyer said:
I think I finally found my perfect setup. :)
After a long time testing poly strings to use in the mains I found the perfect (for me) combination of comfort, feel, control, power and with pretty good tension maintenance.
I strung my Pure Storm Tour GT frames with Black Magic 17 mains @53lb and RIP Control 16 crosses at 55lb.
After stringing I get a DT reading of 38.
After ~6-8 hours is still 33-34.
I am very satisfied with BM. I think it is time to buy a reel.
Cheers.
g

PS My previous setup was Polystar Energy in the mains, but tension maintenance was horrible.
Click to expand...

Take a DT reading after about 15 hours of hitting and let us know what it is. I noticed the Black Magic would feel great for about a week or so and then start hurting my arm.
 
gflyer

gflyer

Professional
Bud said:
Take a DT reading after about 15 hours of hitting and let us know what it is. I noticed the Black Magic would feel great for about a week or so and then start hurting my arm.
Click to expand...

Bud, thank you for your input.
usually after ~8 hours I cut the strings to avoid injuries. Like you said some polys after going dead can rally hurt your arm.
I'll keep track of the DT until I cut the strings and post updates.
I agree with you, Black Magic freshly strung feels really great.
Cheers,
g
 
T

Torres

Banned
Good string this. It's only taken me 3 years to get round to trying it out :)

Anyway, without further ado....

+ Feels like a less stiff, less dead, more powerful version of B5E with more adjustabilty in shot making.
+ Easily a more usable string than the more one dimensional B5E
++ Very 'bitey', 'grabby' string. Surprisingly so. Very spin orientated. Didn't expect that at all.
+ Not super soft, nor stuper stiff. It's solid playing with a bit of give at the tension I used (52lbs CP).
= In terms of stiffness, it's probably half-way house between Black Widow 17 and B5E 17. A medium stiffness poly.
+ Not really an elastic poly like BHB7, but neither is it a stiff or 'no give' poly like Tour Bite.
+ The string feels at its best when you nail the ball. You get the best out of it when taking big rips at the ball, with as much power as you can and with as much racquet head speed as you can. The harder you hit the ball, the better it seems to play. Anyone with low racquet speed or anyone who hits the ball very tentatively won't 'get' this string at all.
+ Control is pretty good though its mostly as a product of the spin it generates. Not exceptionally laser like accurate in terms of directional precision as some polys but not bad in that regard either. Less spray than with something like BHBR, but not as much absolute directional accuracy compared to something Alu Power or even Yonex Poly Tour Pro. Generally though, control is fine.
= Feel is okay - not terrible, not great. Bit tinny without a vibe damp, but okay with. Not as much feel compared to the noticeably softer Black Widow but nowhere near as dead or muted as B5E.
++ Bit of a bargain price in reel form.

Nice string. Can't really think of any obvious negatives though I will have to see how long it lasts before going dead or perfomance drops off. Will probably string it 1-2lbs lower next time. 52lbs seems just a fraction high for me as the ball very occasionally slides off the stringbed rather than embedding.

(17g @ 52lbs CP in a Wilson Juice Pro 96/16x20)

Previous (locked) thread about this string http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=390579

Link to the RSI review: http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2011/08/15_playtest_genesis_black_magi.html
 
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drakulie

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Nice write up Torres. Black Magic is still my preferred poly. Love the feel, power, spin, and comfort. Great string at a inexpensive price.
 
T

Torres

Banned
At the same tension, Black Widow has more pocketing. It's simply a softer string with much more give to it depending on how you're hitting the ball. Nice feel to it as well. That said you'd almost certainly be wanting to string Widow (super soft) and Magic (medium stiffness) at noticeably different tensions so it may be the case that you can achieve similar results.
 
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mikeler

mikeler

Moderator
Power Player said:
How is black widow comparing when itcomes to pocketing ? Black magic has some of the best imo .
Click to expand...


Note, I only tried these as a main string. At similar tensions, I was hitting everything long with Black Magic and my shots were all landing short with Black Widow. The Black 5 Edge at the same tension was finding the mark. So if I had to do it again, I'd up the tension on Black Magic and lower it on Black Widow next time. Black Magic and Black Widow are both more comfortable on the arm than Black 5 Edge.
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Great info guys . I am narrowing down my search to the yy ptp and magic or widow. It sounds like widow is an awesome string and could be great at 40#s.
 
T

Torres

Banned
I'd be cautious about stringing Black Widow so low. It really is like no other poly in terms of it's softness. I string it not far off synthetic gut tensions.....
 
Rabbit

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
Based on Drakulie's recommendation, I bought a reel of Black Magic 17. I tried it and liked it. There are two guys I string for who were pretty set on Babolat RPM.

I asked them to try Black Magic and if they didn't like it, I'd string up RPM for free. Neither have gone back, and I'm on my 3rd reel of Black Magic. It costs 1/3 the price of RPM and both of them tell me they like it better than RPM. I don't know if that comes from the cost being so much lower or the performance :)
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Torres said:
I'd be cautious about stringing Black Widow so low. It really is like no other poly in terms of it's softness. I string it not far off synthetic gut tensions.....
Click to expand...

Ok thanks. I may cross it off the list then since I only string low.

Rabbit, I'm with you on BM. It always delivers. It will come down to that vs yyptp I think.
 
T

Torres

Banned
Don't discount it too readily....it's definitely worth trying out as it's a poly like no other in terms of softness and that pocketing feeling that you say you like. At a guess, 50lbs with Widow will probably be softer than Magic at 40lbs. Completely different feeling string though to say PTP. Different sort of sensation.
 
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Rabbit

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
bad_call said:
Rabbit - how long does the BM last (remain playable). SpinX and Typhoon died way too fast for this player.
Click to expand...

Both the guys who use it that I string for are 5.0s and hard hitters. They always bring me their frames with either a broken string or the string cut out. I'd say 4 - 8 hours is probably the lifespan.

I will add that there have been a couple of other guys who wanted a black poly and do not break strings. Both of them had me cut it out because their arms hurt. It stayed in too long.
 
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bad_call

bad_call

Legend
Rabbit said:
Both the guys who use it that I string for are 5.0s and hard hitters. They always bring me their frames with either a broken string or the string cut out. I'd say 4 - 8 hours is probably the lifespan.

I will add that there have been a couple of other guys who wanted a black poly and do not break strings. Both of them had me cut it out because their arms hurt. It stayed in too long.
Click to expand...

think 4 hrs or so is when the other G strings started dying and hitting deep became harder and ouchier...thanks.
 
rodrigoamaral

rodrigoamaral

Hall of Fame
bad_call said:
think 4 hrs or so is when the other G strings started dying and hitting deep became harder and ouchier...thanks.
Click to expand...

have experimented many strings over the years and this is definately one of the better strings of the bunch, excellent price/performance ratio as well!
 
T

Torres

Banned
Played another 3-4 hours with this string at the weekend, this time on grass (what a fabulous surface). Stringbed felt marginally softer than what it was like 3 days ago, probably due to some additional tension loss from my original 52lbs CP, and the strings maybe were quite as 'grabby' as before, though its difficult to be 100% sure because it was a different surface, one where even with new balls, they don't bounce as muich. Overall, the stringbed still felt fine though.

The impression I get with this string, is that you have to be committed through every stroke and really be prepared to hit through the ball to get the best of this string. It's as if you need to work the strings and make them bend to get the best of out of them. Whether that was due to the tension I used or some other reason, I'm not sure. As mentioned previously it doesn't strike me as a string for players with tentative strokes or those who aren't prepared to crush the ball or those who don't generate alot of racquet speed.

I'm really liking this string so far. It's a string with a nice balance of characteristics and inspires alot of confidence. Just need to see how long it lasts.
 
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Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Only reason I have hesitated on going back to BM is because as stated the strings can die quick and you have to be careful there. I like a poly that will give me 8 hours since that can get me 1 week of usage before I break it or cut it out.

See how it goes. Sometimes genesis strings die a horrible death in 4-6 hours and that can be in the middle of a match.
 
T

Torres

Banned
Well they've got about 5-6 hours on them already and I've got another match this evening, so that will take them over the magic 8 hour mark...
 
T

Torres

Banned
Oh man, you really did speak too soon, PP...

These strings are dead at 5-6 hours, at the start of their third outing. Right at the start of a singles match as well. Frustrating. Most if not all of that grabbiness has gone, the ball doesn't feel like it's coming off the string bed with that much zap, and the string is much more rubbery feeling. You have to work the racquet so much harder to produce anything remotely resembling the same heaviness of ball. The ball coming off the racquet seems to be alot flatter and alot of the spin seems to have gone. I'd say its lost about 70% of its original performance. The confidence that it gave and the performance provided during the first few hours just isn't there. *sigh*

SUCH a shame because it played sooooo well during the first few hours :-(

Not sure where I go now with this string. GREAT playing string during the first few hours, but I find restringing about as tedious as ironing.
 
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schap02

schap02

Semi-Pro
String holds tension well as a cross, one of my favorites - used to use it before switching to co-focus

msv hex mains...
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
I grabbed a pack of the 17 gauge for one more run. I want to see how long it lasts in my racquet. It is definitely one of my favorite polys..the pocketing is amazing.
 
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