Vortex Extreme Spin Rackets

Murray Mound · Mar 16, 2010

tailofdog said:
Ok i will pick one up for my birthday in june. It sounds like a worthwhile look.
I found a way to get one sent to Australia. I have a balance board and can probably get it to the spec i like. I use a Pro Kennex ki 15pse and its beam is a little thicker but plays well for me (i will be 62) I still have a few doubts but,a racquet that gives you any advantage is something worth looking at.
I saw Marks father a couple of years ago at a seniors tournament in South Australia. If i remember his name was Ray and i don,t think he had any unusual racquet set up.
At the time he was 75 and still winning whatever he was entered in.

let me know which on you get and what you think of it.

If memory serves me correctly there is a cheaper version of the vortex in Australia .

I think this idea was patented by some family there in australia....I think the cheaper version is the jenpro or something

Murray Mound · Mar 16, 2010

^^^^^^^

that's why!! That's why they don't shop to Australia....I bet they are not allowed to because it's patented NY someone else . This jenpro or whoever probably licensed ti vortex and they are limited to only selling the woodforde design in the USA !

tailofdog · Mar 17, 2010

Jenro ( 2 Piece Tennis Racquet)

Murray Mound said:
^^^^^^^

that's why!! That's why they don't shop to Australia....I bet they are not allowed to because it's patented NY someone else . This jenpro or whoever probably licensed ti vortex and they are limited to only selling the woodforde design in the USA !

I cant find anything over here. I have a JENRO which is a 2 piece racquet which is an old SNAUWAERT copy.
I dont know if thats the reason why they dont sell but, to only 2 countries outside the U.S. but, i found a reseller that takes Pay Pal so, it should work out.
I sent the Vortex link to the Australian tennis history site. They will place it in the modern unusual section.

Murray Mound · Mar 17, 2010

tailofdog said:
I cant find anything over here. I have a JENRO which is a 2 piece racquet which is an old SNAUWAERT copy.
I dont know if thats the reason why they dont sell but, to only 2 countries outside the U.S. but, i found a reseller that takes Pay Pal so, it should work out.
I sent the Vortex link to the Australian tennis history site. They will place it in the modern unusual section.

I must be confusing it woth another name...maybe its kawasaki ??? i will search for it. In any event here is a pic of the 15 guage woodforde used. i got it off that wood tennis site;

Murray Mound · Mar 17, 2010

i found this on The TW wesite:

Mr. Tennis said:
REVIEW: VORTEX 100 & 116.

age: 38
style of play: old school serve and volley
current racquet: Dunlop Mcenroe
strings: Gut
USTA level : 5.0

I loved botH racquets but for my style of play I liked the es 116 better. This was quite shocking as I have never played with a head size larger than 98.I was shocked at how manuverable the 116 was.

Now to Answer the question on everyones mind.....NO this stick does NOT give you some wild unfair advantage and does not produce superhuman spin that causes the ball to kick over the back fence.

Having said all that.....the strings do create great control and in the right hands this stick is a serious weapon.

The danger for thia company is copycats . I don't see how they are going to stop anyone from copying them. Sure the patent office will take your money but if challenged I don't think the patent will hold up. I mean could you stop someone from making a guitar with 3 strings on it?

I did love the racquet. Touch shots and drop volleys were dead on. Serves were great. I loved the racquet and I am going to switch to it .

Having said all of that Im not sure it's the right racquet for everyone. For my style of touch amd placement it worked great....but Im not so sure it would work well for the modern game.

I will have a friend demo a couple of the other models amd we will report back.

But I loved both sticks and I do believe the descriptions of the 116 and 100 was dead on. The 116 is shockingly for a touch serve and volley game while the 100 is for modern topspin game.

Tune in later when I test the 108 and the 133

tailofdog · Mar 17, 2010

Got It!!

Murray Mound said:
I must be confusing it woth another name...maybe its kawasaki ??? i will search for it. In any event here is a pic of the 15 guage woodforde used. i got it off that wood tennis site;

KAWASAKI MACRO-NOVA TI
14x16 string pattern 108 head size 290 grm + or - 7.5 grm unstrung
Recommeded for intermediate to advanced level players Retailing here(OZ) for $90.00 AUD
The problem as i see it is even if the string pattern is good you,still need a quality frame?

Murray Mound · Mar 17, 2010

tailofdog said:
KAWASAKI MACRO-NOVA TI
14x16 string pattern 108 head size 290 grm + or - 7.5 grm unstrung
Recommeded for intermediate to advanced level players Retailing here(OZ) for $90.00 AUD
The problem as i see it is even if the string pattern is good you,still need a quality frame?

Nice work! Very impressive indeed .

I agree with you 100%.

I believe the pattern is patented. I think there is some family that holds the patent ....starts with a "J".....I think it's jensen??? They are Australian I'm almost sure of it.

I can't wait till you try the racquet. I won't be the only one who has hit with it.
I'm also wondering what your opinion will be and what you think of it.

Of course it's not going to turn you into Roger Federer but I really think you will like it. Just rememeber there is a small learning curve so give it a couple of sets or so before you render your decision.

Anxiously waiting for your review....and don't pull any punches ! Hate it or love it just let us know.

Cheers mate.

tailofdog · Mar 17, 2010

Honest

I will be honest when i get it!
I have to wait until close to june(my birthday) As i have been spending huge amounts of money on bird aviaries and, birds to set up for breeding.
I have had to promise my wife a 2 month layoff on any new toys.
I can get away with ordering it middle May but, not bfore

How would you decribe the learning curve?
I had a NEOXXLINE racquet that was good on groundstrokes but, very difficult on volleys.
The Vortex looks more traditional so, i assume the learning curve is more subtle

Murray Mound · Mar 17, 2010

tailofdog said:
I will be honest when i get it!
I have to wait until close to june(my birthday) As i have been spending huge amounts of money on bird aviaries and, birds to set up for breeding.
I have had to promise my wife a 2 month layoff on any new toys.
I can get away with ordering it middle May but, not bfore
How would you decribe the learning curve?
I had a NEOXXLINE racquet that was good on groundstrokes but, very difficult on volleys.
The Vortex looks more traditional so, i assume the learning curve is more subtle

wow....that sounds pretty interesting. I personally like birds of prey. I had a falcon on my arm.....incredible animal.

On to tennis.....that neoxline is a weird stick indeed. I never hit with it but I'm sure the learning curve is nothing like the vortex.

You will hit your normal shots right out of the box amd you will notice a bit more spin than before.....but you won't appreciate the difference from a normal
racquet until a few sets .

I didn't notice that big of a difference until this one amazing shot....I was hitting with a division 1 pro and he smacked the hardest ball I have ever felt while i was at the net . I didn't merely volley it back but it was a pure winner .....it was a volley like I have never hit in my life . even the pro was amazed amd he said "I can't hit it harder than that ".

It's those shots you really reach for that you never could get to before where you notice the difference in the stick. Your not going really appreiate it until you are pushed to the max.

I believe the volleys are so good is because the "vortex" shape has very low tension at the top are of the head. Normal racquet get very tight in that position .....but with the vortex those stretched out volleys come flying over the net for pure winners.

So there's no real learning curve but you can only really appreciate the stick when you are pushed to the max.

Having said all that I let the pro hit with the 100 and he didn't even want to touch it. Reluctantly he did amd he said the racquet was too thick for him as his topspin is huge. His balls were flying into the parking lot. But i simy strung it tighter and now he loves it. It's comes strung at 45 which means at the top it's about 35. I strong my vortex at about 60.

galain · Mar 17, 2010

Murray Mound said:
1- you can use any string you want on a vortex.

2- mark woodforde used thick 15 guage

3- there is a debate on thick vs thin. Thin supposedly gives more bite but another school of thought says thick gives more spin becaise there is more material touching the ball thus creating more spin.....and then there are others that say it's all racquet head speed and string doesn't matter . Bottom line: no one really knows.

The original Hi Ten series were based on the idea of an extremely open pattern. However at that time, no-one played with polys. Because of the open pattern, the recommendation was the string very very tightly - (not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but I thought somewhere over 80lbs??). The higher tensions were the only way you were going to get any control out of a string pattern that open - and I guess the thickest strings weren't going to break as easily.

Wasn't sure if you knew this - thought I'd add. Would have been interesting to see those old frames with poly set ups.

Murray Mound · Mar 18, 2010

galain said:
The original Hi Ten series were based on the idea of an extremely open pattern. However at that time, no-one played with polys. Because of the open pattern, the recommendation was the string very very tightly - (not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but I thought somewhere over 80lbs??). The higher tensions were the only way you were going to get any control out of a string pattern that open - and I guess the thickest strings weren't going to break as easily.

Wasn't sure if you knew this - thought I'd add. Would have been interesting to see those old frames with poly set ups.

interesting Point however woodforde use a 15 guage poly pictured above.

Klaus · Mar 18, 2010

I tried a Vortex last night

I tried the Vortex ES 100 last night. It took some getting used to, but after I warmed up, the spin was UNREAL; especially on medium-strength shots that kicked over opponents' heads. I look forward to learning exactly how to wield this weapon--it felt good from the start, and I know it won't take much longer to get used to it. I was able to hit really hard, and watch the ball drop in at the last moment. It's not magic, you must know how to initiate the proper mechanics. Backhand drives were almost unreturnable and were crazy with spin. I ordered a Wilson racquet recently that was on back order which I have cancelled.

Murray Mound · Mar 18, 2010

Klaus said:
I tried the Vortex ES 100 last night. It took some getting used to, but after I warmed up, the spin was UNREAL; especially on medium-strength shots that kicked over opponents' heads. I look forward to learning exactly how to wield this weapon--it felt good from the start, and I know it won't take much longer to get used to it. I was able to hit really hard, and watch the ball drop in at the last moment. It's not magic, you must know how to initiate the proper mechanics. Backhand drives were almost unreturnable and were crazy with spin. I ordered a Wilson racquet recently that was on back order which I have cancelled.

Exactly. Finally someone else in the flock!!'

now you can play around with the strong as well. I tightened mine up to 60 pounds.

What is also odd that since the racquet is so maneuverable you can actually go a head size up to 108.....it's slightly lighter. It does everything the 100 does but with a bit more power.

You guys better hurry becaise Wilson will shut these guys down before they get to big.

I'm really glad you liked it. You have validated my opinion. I don't know of everyone will like it as much as I do. It's not a cure for all your problems but it certainly makes tennis a lot easier .

Enjoy !!! We are part of a very elite club.....a club of two!

tlm · Mar 18, 2010

Hey klaus do you know the beam size? Also what do you mean it took some getting used to? Did you find it a little to powerful?

tailofdog · Mar 18, 2010

How To Find

joe sch said:
I love playing doubles with these rackets !
The ES 100 can hit extreme spin with its 16x14 complemented with the hex strings. The racket is extra easy to maneuver with the longer handle, 9" vs std 7". Great for kicking serves. Its hard for me to put these rackets down now.

I will end up getting one in a couple of months because, some of the tech interests me.
I do have to ask how are people going to find them when their site ends up freezing the computer half the time. If they do get to the store they get two different weights on different parts of the site and, no beam width on any of the models. My understanding of search engines is, that when they run into problems with a website it gets very little coverage.The other racquet inovations other than the string get no mention.
I do not mean this to be negative as i appreciate the creative thought and courage it took to bring this racquet out. I just think someone should help them get the basic presentation right!

Murray Mound · Mar 18, 2010

tailofdog said:
I will end up getting one in a couple of months because, some of the tech interests me.
I do have to ask how are people going to find them when their site ends up freezing the computer half the time. If they do get to the store they get two different weights on different parts of the site and, no beam width on any of the models. My understanding of search engines is, that when they run into problems with a website it gets very little coverage.The other racquet inovations other than the string get no mention.
I do not mean this to be negative as i appreciate the creative thought and courage it took to bring this racquet out. I just think someone should help them get the basic presentation right!

I 100 percent agree ! I texted the inventors son Wade and told him them
the problem with the site . They said it will take 30 days to fix. I know it sounds silly but that's what he said.

You have to understand that this is a tiny company....a family business and the entire company lists a total of 12 employees. That's a little less than Wilson has....lol.

Now about the width you can call them
up .....I think the nber is 1-888-we vortex.

But Maybe I will rememebr tomorrow and I will ask.

I played with it tonight for like the fourth time. Each time I just get better at using it. But more importantly my opponent said "what kind of racquet is that.....it looks like a club players racquet "

truth be known I am only a club player. But the stick must be ugly to draw so much attention . To me it looks like am ordinary red racquet....but I guess others see differently.

galain · Mar 18, 2010

MM - truth be known, most of us are 'only' club players!

Please keep us posted on your adventures - it sounds interesting.

AndrewD · Mar 19, 2010

Murray Mound said:
McEnroe had said Marks "Vortex" was unfair and gave too much spin

Again I spoke to the owner and he basically said he copied woodfordes racquet and made it better. He says woodforde was mistaken and should have used a lower tension . In any event you can string the vortex as tight as you want to mimic the woodforde "Vortex".

Here is Marks Wilson "Vortex":

Firstly, Woodforde's racquets should never be referred to as 'Vortex' - that puts the cart way in front of the horse. Barry Philips-Moore came up with the concept, Snauwert produced the first frames, then Rossignol, then Sfida came out with a model that could be strung 'macro' or 'regular' (Woodforde tried it but didn't like it) then Woodforde went through a number of different iterations - ATP, Yonex and Wilson.

Secondly, as someone who has used the Hi-Ten 50 (extensively - my brother still uses it and has been doing so since about 1988) at low tensions I can say categorically that it produced far more spin at high tensions than it did at low ones. That is when using both gut and poly (a natural gut was available when the Hi-Ten was released). At lower tensions you increased comfort but there was a noticeable drop in spin. You still got more spin than any other racquet of the day but not as much as was possible.

Given that the Hi-Ten 50 could be strung up to 110lbs and tensions in the 90's were the norm, I'd be interested to see what happens to the Vortex if you go that high.

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

AndrewD said:
Firstly, Woodforde's racquets should never be referred to as 'Vortex' - that puts the cart way in front of the horse. Barry Philips-Moore came up with the concept, Snauwert produced the first frames, then Rossignol, then Sfida came out with a model that could be strung 'macro' or 'regular' (Woodforde tried it but didn't like it) then Woodforde went through a number of different iterations - ATP, Yonex and Wilson.

Secondly, as someone who has used the Hi-Ten 50 (extensively - my brother still uses it and has been doing so since about 1988) at low tensions I can say categorically that it produced far more spin at high tensions than it did at low ones. That is when using both gut and poly (a natural gut was available when the Hi-Ten was released). At lower tensions you increased comfort but there was a noticeable drop in spin. You still got more spin than any other racquet of the day but not as much as was possible.

Given that the Hi-Ten 50 could be strung up to 110lbs and tensions in the 90's were the norm, I'd be interested to see what happens to the Vortex if you go that high.

Wow.....you really know a lot about the woodforde racquet. I have been searching and searching for one. I then went on tennoswarehouse to research the racquet and I found this string talking about Woodfordes stick. So the vortex was brought up and that was my only choice.

Joesch a fellow poster I believe owns woodtennis.com or maybe I'm confusing hi
with someone else. Anyway he has the hi-ten amd he also bought the Vortex. He said the Vortex actually produced more spin amd was a better stick altogether becaise of the tecnology In the stick.

Rememebr it's not only the strings but the racquet is made with some innovations....like the throat design and the length of the handle which is longer than any racquet I hav seen.

Anyway Joesch I believe is the only person here who has tried both the Woodforde racquets and the Vortex racquets and therefore I respectfully submit that he is the only one qualified to speak on the topic .

When I get a chance I will do the search again .....however maybe you want to quote Joe or maybe Joe you can weigh in on the topic as you may be the most qualified expert on this topic in the entire world at the moment.

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

Andrew, I did the research and it seems tht you have debates this extensively already. Anyway Joesch is the only person who has tried both the woodforde racquet an the Vortex and here's what he says:

joe sch said:
Im a player that prefers the older, heavier, more flexible graphite rackets. I am always impressed when playing
with the vintage Snauwaert HiTen rackets regarding the spin capabilities which mostly result due to the sparse
open string patterns, 12x14 used by the HiTen racket designs.

I play tested a modern racket called the ES 100 (Extreme Spin) this weekend which had a 14x16 and was very impressed. The spin capability was very impressive, probably on par or better than the HiTens. I was hitting lots more topspin and slice on my groundies and big
kicks on my serves. It was very surprising and enjoyable.

I took a few pictures to show this racket compared to the HiTen.
Are there other modern rackets made for extreme spinning with open patterns like 14x16 ?

http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/snauwaert_hiten_es100a.jpg
http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/snauwaert_hiten_es100b.jpg
http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/ES_100a.jpg
http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/ES_100b.jpg

AndrewD said:
Joe,

If that's the case then I'm truly astounded. The Snauwert Hi-Ten 50 was the most outrageously spin-friendly (more like fiendish) racquet I have ever used. I really am struggling to imagine anything coming remotely close to it.

That said, I did always feel that a key to the Hi-Ten 50's spin potential was the extremely thick gauge strings it forced you to use. What were you using in your Hi-Ten and the other frame?

As for interest in the racquet, my brother played the Hi-Ten 50 from its inception right up until about 2 years ago when his last one broke. I'm sure he'd be very interested in hearing your impressions of this newer frame. But why no standard length models and why do they need the uncomfortable shape?

joe sch said:
Andrew,

Aside from the common open string patterns, these rackets used opposite ends of the string/tension setups.

The HiTen was orig strings, approx 12g at high tension of probably 75lbs

The extreme spin was MSV Focus Hex 17L at 55lbs

Like I mentioned, I was very surprised I had soo much control with spinning ability. I sorta felt like Nadal in that I could whip the racket thru groundies generating tons of spin. I normally try to play more like Federer flattening out blasts. Serving was also very fun as I was able to get tons of kick bringing the bounches over the receivers shoulders height.

joe sch · Mar 19, 2010

AndrewD said:
Firstly, Woodforde's racquets should never be referred to as 'Vortex' - that puts the cart way in front of the horse. Barry Philips-Moore came up with the concept, Snauwert produced the first frames, then Rossignol, then Sfida came out with a model that could be strung 'macro' or 'regular' (Woodforde tried it but didn't like it) then Woodforde went through a number of different iterations - ATP, Yonex and Wilson.

Secondly, as someone who has used the Hi-Ten 50 (extensively - my brother still uses it and has been doing so since about 1988) at low tensions I can say categorically that it produced far more spin at high tensions than it did at low ones. That is when using both gut and poly (a natural gut was available when the Hi-Ten was released). At lower tensions you increased comfort but there was a noticeable drop in spin. You still got more spin than any other racquet of the day but not as much as was possible.

Given that the Hi-Ten 50 could be strung up to 110lbs and tensions in the 90's were the norm, I'd be interested to see what happens to the Vortex if you go that high.

I support what Andrew is stating.

Although the Vortex and HiTen have some similar design properties, they are different racket frame technologies designed for different string tensions. The HiTen was made to support a sparse stringing tension at high tensions. The Vortex is made to play best at lower tensions with a sparser string pattern than the other current modern rackets. Modern rackets are basically air shells that can Not support high tensions, I would not even try more than 70 lbs and most of the spec's will put 65 lbs at a high end limit to warranty against any stringers attempting such a test. I like the Vortex at 50 lbs with a 17g string. If you played a HiTen with this setup, the strings would probably snap in 15 minutes

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

jimbo333 said:
Ban them I say!

There's nothing more difficult than trying to hit a ball bouncing around your shoulders, and I'm only 5'8", which means with one of these, my opponent will probably kick it over my head!

funny.

...

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

joe sch said:
I support what Andrew is stating.

Although the Vortex and HiTen have some similar design properties, they are different racket frame technologies designed for different string tensions. The HiTen was made to support a sparse stringing tension at high tensions. The Vortex is made to play best at lower tensions with a sparser string pattern than the other current modern rackets. Modern rackets are basically air shells that can Not support high tensions, I would not even try more than 70 lbs and most of the spec's will put 65 lbs at a high end limit to warranty against any stringers attempting such a test. I like the Vortex at 50 lbs with a 17g string. If you played a HiTen with this setup, the strings would probably snap in 15 minutes

However I think the bottom line is this:

joe sch said:
I play tested a modern racket called the ES 100 (Extreme Spin) this weekend which had a 14x16 and was very impressed. The spin capability was very impressive, probably on par or better than the HiTens. I was hitting lots more topspin and slice on my groundies and big kicks on my serves. It was very surprising and enjoyable.

]

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

By the way my setup is blue gear 16 guage with the es 100 at 60 pounds .....omg!!! Awesome!!! Been playing with it for two weeks and no sign of any wear and tear....but blue gear is imdestructable and arguably the greatest topspin string known to mankind.

jbleiman · Mar 19, 2010

my 116 should be coming any day now...hope it comes today...am really looking foreward to trying it out. i currently use a wilson n3 and am very happy with it so this raquet will have to be extra special...it sounds tailor made to my game..i use alot of slice on my backhand,and a fair amount off my forehand side too,like to chip and charge,drop shot/touch shot/touch lob...

jbleiman · Mar 19, 2010

it is being strung at 50lbs with their recommended string...am somewhat worried about tennis elbow as the racquet is rated at 70 flex and it is being strung using poly...i have some problems with tennis elbow..so it is a concern

mctennis · Mar 19, 2010

tailofdog said:
I have tried almost every cutting edge inovation.The results have been the further away from a normal frame the worse they were.
The POWER ANGLE stringing pattern was a good thing but, not exceptional.
The WEED has a place in Seniors tennis has has the Big Bubba. You just have to weigh up if the good outweighs the bad for you.
Now on to the VORTEX
The balance on the 100 and 108 6pt hl suites me and i do not mind 27.5 length but on one part of the site lists the 100 as 11.2 oz strung and the other lists it as 10.8 oz strung. The 108 has a similar difference on different parts of the Vortex site.They have a string pattern that might have merit.
I would even be willing to try it. What i do know is they have no 27 in around 12 oz frames that would appeal to a lot of the serious tennis population. So they appear to be making a play for only the recreational crowd. Now they only ship to the U.S., Austria and South Africa. As i live in Australia i, have to wonder why? Our postal system is first class as would be many of the countries they exclude.
Now this is a question and a guess. They seem to be pushing an affliate program which gives a commision on sales you direct to them. I wonder if this is part of the problem on International shipping? My understanding is South Africa is not the safest place to ship to but is one of the two International countries they ship to!
It may be unfair but i have to wonder if this is more a marketing ploy than really innovative racquet.
I hope i am wrong but, I really have to ask this question.

JUST A SUGGESTION- Get someone here in the states to mail one to you. Send the person the money and they can ship it to you. Just a suggestion. It would be the same shipping costs roughly.

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

jbleiman said:
it is being strung at 50lbs with their recommended string...am somewhat worried about tennis elbow as the racquet is rated at 70 flex and it is being strung using poly...i have some problems with tennis elbow..so it is a concern

No worries. Remember if a racquet with poly is strung at 40 it will lose 10 pounds in a few hours. Then when you play it will lose more. So the racquet will be really strung at about 40 or less. Add to that the vortex design....the tension is not uniform throughout the racquet. The top is much looser....will be at about 30 pounds. It will feel like you just sat into a plush Leather seated cadillac .

Hey but don't believe me ask joesch of wood tennis.com:

joe sch said:
Did not hurt my arm at all. Modern rackets with poly setups do hurt my elbow after 1 hour of hitting.

Did not feel stiff with the strings and pattern. Recommended tension is 50 .. 65, I like the lower end. I have played 6 hours with racket and have not noticed any wear on strings or loss of playability.

mctennis · Mar 19, 2010

OK, I'll bite. I'd buy a used one to play around with. Maybe a ES 100 or ES 108. I want to "rip the cover off the ball" as they claim. I don't feel like spending $200 but would consider one at a lot less to play with for a few months.

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

jbleiman said:
my 116 should be coming any day now...hope it comes today...am really looking foreward to trying it out. i currently use a wilson n3 and am very happy with it so this raquet will have to be extra special...it sounds tailor made to my game..i use alot of slice on my backhand,and a fair amount off my forehand side too,like to chip and charge,drop shot/touch shot/touch lob...

Perfect choice. I think you are going to love it.

Guys I have no reason to say this but the stick is really revolutionary. Woodforde was really onto something here.

If the company becomes more succesful I hole they come out with more of a player frame.... A bit more heft and thinner beam and 95 square inches. Right now I hav to settle for the 100 which is still better in my opinion than any racquet on the market.

I'm sure it's not for everyone....but I really think most people will love it.

What's so surprising to me is the 133. It looks ridiculous....like a babolat on steroids. But I swear to you there is no better volley or return of serve racquet on the market. It's freaking unbeatble for those strokes....

Amd if your a bit slow at I think 28 1/2 inches you can get to anything . As for serves if you have no power all you have to do is push the ball and you have a big serve.

I think after you love the 116 you won't be able to put it down and you may try the 133.....but again the racquet just looks ridiculous. I would not have the balls to be seen on the court with a racquet like that.

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

mctennis said:
OK, I'll bite. I'd buy a used one to play around with. Maybe a ES 100 or ES 108. I want to "rip the cover off the ball" as they claim. I don't feel like spending $200 but would consider one at a lot less to play with for a few months.

They have a return policy. If you don't like it then just return it w/in 30 days no questions asked. How can you lose?

Call them up and talk to them . It's a tiny family business . I'm sure they will work with you ....Tom is just a regular guy....a usta national senior 4.5 player. Just call him up. He will even give you his cell phone number. He interioted his dinner once just to talk to me.

He just started this business and he is not set up like Wilson. His website doesn't even run correctly so give the guy a break....he is taking on huge corporations like Wilson amd Babolat. I always root for the small guy.

But the stick is seriously great....and you better hurry becaise my predictio
is that the big boys like Wilson will not let Tom get big.

tailofdog · Mar 19, 2010

Found A Seller

mctennis said:
JUST A SUGGESTION- Get someone here in the states to mail one to you. Send the person the money and they can ship it to you. Just a suggestion. It would be the same shipping costs roughly.

I found a seller that sends International. So it should work out

Murray Mound · Mar 19, 2010

jbleiman said:
it is being strung at 50lbs with their recommended string...am somewhat worried about tennis elbow as the racquet is rated at 70 flex and it is being strung using poly...i have some problems with tennis elbow..so it is a concern

Almost forgot.....it's not a pure poly set up...it's a hybrid.

Tom olmstead the inventor is a USTA 4.5 senior player so he also likes a soft string bed

joe sch · Mar 19, 2010

Murray Mound said:
Almost forgot.....it's not a pure poly set up...it's a hybrid.

Tom olmstead the inventor is a USTA 4.5 senior player so he also likes a soft string bed

I highly recommend a hex copoly. Its softer and has lots of bite. MSV makes such a string and it plays fantastic.

BTW, any international buyers wanting these rackets, I will offer to send them to your location for the advertised price plus the cost of the international shipping.

Murray Mound · Mar 20, 2010

joe sch said:
I highly recommend a hex copoly. Its softer and has lots of bite. MSV makes such a string and it plays fantastic.

BTW, any international buyers wanting these rackets, I will offer to send them to your location for the advertised price plus the cost of the international shipping.

I will give it a shot.... what I like about blue gear especially in this particular frame is that it's imdestructable and it just seems to get better the more you use it.

But you seem to be a guru and I respect what you say. Which hex copoly should I try? The stick comes with a hybrid multi and poly.....what do you think about that?

tailofdog · Mar 20, 2010

Contact

joe sch said:
I highly recommend a hex copoly. Its softer and has lots of bite. MSV makes such a string and it plays fantastic.

BTW, any international buyers wanting these rackets, I will offer to send them to your location for the advertised price plus the cost of the international shipping.

I sent you a message. I also took a look at YOUTUBE on VORTEX and only about 202 people have watched the Vortex video . The message is really not getting out their!

000KFACTOR90000 · Mar 20, 2010

joe sch said:
I highly recommend a hex copoly. Its softer and has lots of bite. MSV makes such a string and it plays fantastic.

BTW, any international buyers wanting these rackets, I will offer to send them to your location for the advertised price plus the cost of the international shipping.

Hi Joe, I saw both video advertisements but would love to see a detailed video review with a top player hitting some big groundies.

Just have a look at tennis warehouse video reviews and use them as a template.

I think a pure drive/head extreme/wilson fx etc etc clone with the vortex string pattern could be a huge seller !!

Murray Mound · Mar 20, 2010

I saw the conmerci as well....they never say what's so different about the Vortex than other racquets. Plus there website is virtually impossible to view .

These guys could use some marketing skills.

I also wish they made more of a players frame but I still cannot put this stick down. It has some faults but it's still the best racquet out there .

As far as a pro using it.....well Tom the owner of this famy business does not have that kind of financing; on the otherhand neither does Volkl or Pro Kennex but they are still great racquets.

A pro playing with a paintjob is just all about money. Personally I don't believe for example that Nadal or Federer changed to the newer version o their sticks.....in fact Nadal does not even use cortex at all.

joe sch · Mar 20, 2010

Murray Mound said:
I saw the conmerci as well....they never say what's so different about the Vortex than other racquets. Plus there website is virtually impossible to view .

These guys could use some marketing skills.

I also wish they made more of a players frame but I still cannot put this stick down. It has some faults but it's still the best racquet out there .

As far as a pro using it.....well Tom the owner of this famy business does not have that kind of financing; on the otherhand neither does Volkl or Pro Kennex but they are still great racquets.

A pro playing with a paintjob is just all about money. Personally I don't believe for example that Nadal or Federer changed to the newer version o their sticks.....in fact Nadal does not even use cortex at all.

I believe Vortex uses a hex copoly as the default string. The rackets I got had this same string. I have found it very similar to the MSV hex string which is a copoly and I purchased a reel to retring these rackets when I snap the strings.

Joe

Murray Mound · Mar 20, 2010

joe sch said:
I believe Vortex uses a hex copoly as the default string. The rackets I got had this same string. I have found it very similar to the MSV hex string which is a copoly and I purchased a reel to retring these rackets when I snap the strings.

Joe

So have you switched to the Vortex?

joe sch · Mar 20, 2010

I play many different rackets but when I want the best chance of winning a match, I will used the Vortex rackets since I can generate soo much topspin for power and control from the baseline. They are also great for doubles.

tlm · Mar 20, 2010

I received my vortex es 100 today. They cut it down by a half inch to make it regular 27 inch length.Which i was surprised the guy i talked to told me he would cut it down even though i told him i was really just demoing this stick.

He claimed that many people prefer the standard length.Also if i didnt buy the racket that they just give it to one of their coaches.

I told him that i wanted it strung up for control, i really wanted a multi in it.But he talked me into using his mega spin string. I really dont like polys anymore+probably it will sound odd but many polys are to powerful to me.

He suggested to have it strung at 65 lbs for better control.Today i was able to play with it a couple of games after my match, so that was not much of a test. It felt pretty good but it was to powerful for me with that string set up.

I use western grip+really rely on topsin+slice backhand, so my game is built around spin.This racket definitely has spin.Just like others stated it seemed really good for return of serve.

It also seemed to be a real good slice racket, my slices were really nasty.
I cut that string out+restrung it at 70lbs. with head fxp 16 gauge,that should tone it down.Remember that the guy i talked to told me that tension is really 10lbs. lower on this racket than it is with a standard racket.

The specs were pretty close, it weighed 11.1 ounce strung with tourna grip on.It was 6 points headlight+the beam was 26 mm.I did not like the length of the handle, it is way to long.Also it does not have much taper at the bottom.But those two things are easy to fix.

I will hit with it tomorrow+hopefully it has much better control.I will give my review after playing with it for an extended period of time.

Murray Mound · Mar 20, 2010

joe sch said:
I play many different rackets but when I want the best chance of winning a match, I will used the Vortex rackets since I can generate soo much topspin for power and control from the baseline. They are also great for doubles.

I think that they are unbeatble In doubles. Thanks for your input.....coming from a guy like you it's really a great validation of this stick.

Murray Mound · Mar 20, 2010

tlm said:
I received my vortex es 100 today. They cut it down by a half inch to make it regular 27 inch length.Which i was surprised the guy i talked to told me he would cut it down even though i told him i was really just demoing this stick.

He claimed that many people prefer the standard length.Also if i didnt buy the racket that they just give it to one of their coaches.

I told him that i wanted it strung up for control, i really wanted a multi in it.But he talked me into using his mega spin string. I really dont like polys anymore+probably it will sound odd but many polys are to powerful to me.

He suggested to have it strung at 65 lbs for better control.Today i was able to play with it a couple of games after my match, so that was not much of a test. It felt pretty good but it was to powerful for me with that string set up.

I use western grip+really rely on topsin+slice backhand, so my game is built around spin.This racket definitely has spin.Just like others stated it seemed really good for return of serve.

It also seemed to be a real good slice racket, my slices were really nasty.
I cut that string out+restrung it at 70lbs. with head fxp 16 gauge,that should tone it down.Remember that the guy i talked to told me that tension is really 10lbs. lower on this racket than it is with a standard racket.

The specs were pretty close, it weighed 11.1 ounce strung with tourna grip on.It was 6 points headlight+the beam was 26 mm.I did not like the length of the handle, it is way to long.Also it does not have much taper at the bottom.But those two things are easy to fix.

I will hit with it tomorrow+hopefully it has much better control.I will give my
review after playing with it for an extended period of time.

Clearly the racquet is not for everyone; however I think you have given the racquet an injustice.

You can't make something as radical as this stick conservative. In otherwords cutting it down amd using your normal string job just turns this into a run of the mill racquet. To give it a fair try you need to have an open mind amd free yourself from conservatism.....just hit with it as is....maybe tighten up the strings a bit....but that's it. Cutting the length dramtaocally changes this stick amd throws eberything out of whack .

Wade .....Toms son is a division 1 player amd he uses the 108 . He tightens his up to 58. He plays doubles ....with a former wimbledon wta player and she also uses the 108.

I hope you like it ; however it's not for everyone . The stick really shines in doubles or when you are really pushed for a shot that normally you can't get to. The low tension at the top of the racquet sends balls back over the net that normally don't make it over.

Good luck .....I am anxiously awaiting your review! By the way are you the Tim associated with the power grip? Because I think that's a cool invention. I use that as well.

Murray Mound · Mar 20, 2010

joe sch said:
I believe Vortex uses a hex copoly as the default string. The rackets I got had this same string. I have found it very similar to the MSV hex string which is a copoly and I purchased a reel to retring these rackets when I snap the strings.

Joe

Did you know that you can actually buy the vortex string? Unless you are trying to sorta say that vortex simply uses msv hex and just calls it vortex?

000KFACTOR90000 · Mar 21, 2010

Murray Mound said:
As far as a pro using it......

Sorry I just meant a really good player who would be willing to do a video review (maybe the owner qualifies?).

Murray Mound · Mar 21, 2010

000KFACTOR90000 said:
Sorry I just meant a really good player who would be willing to do a video review (maybe the owner qualifies?).

No I'm sorry I didn't mean to sound rude. I apologize.

tlm · Mar 21, 2010

Dear murray mound, you are saying that by cutting it down from 27 1/2 to 27 is a radical change.Tom is the one that suggested this saying that many other players preferred this length.But you claim this throws everything out of whack.

What is my normal string job? When i change rackets i try many different strings+tensions until i make it play the best for me.

I have a lot of experience with many strings+rackets.Look i play tennis almost everyday, i have been through the poly craze. I really dont like poly anymore+ it will end up hurting many players. Strings are what makes the racket, using that run of the mill poly that came with it means nothing.

You cant honestly think that you have to use the string that they suggest to see how the racket really plays. Believe me i will use this racket with different strings+tensions to really see how it plays.

It really doesnt matter to me who uses it+ how good they are + what size racket+ tension they use. That means squat to me, the only thing that matters is how it plays for my game.

I am anything but conservative, my game is about using extreme spin. That is why i purchased this racket. But i am a singles player that wants control, my game is 90% baseline bashing.

The way this racket came was way to powerful the way it was set up.I can tell right away by the trajectory of the ball flight if it is to powerful.I take big cuts at the ball, i do not like playing with granny sticks.

Believe me i will give it a good test to see if it will play good with this style of play.By the way i am not associated with power grip.

Murray Mound · Mar 21, 2010

Tim,

no offense. I don't think you should use the string it came with or the tension. I actually string at 60 and use blue gear.

And if that's hat Tom suggested then who am I to say anything .

Having said all that, I personally do not think the racquet as it stands now is made for 5.0 or better players. I understand why you think it's to powerful for you and you make a very valid point about the stick being to powerful.

I think the stick , even the 100 was made for the club player in mind . A 26 mm frame is just way to thick.

Hopefully this company will become more popular and male a real players stick. For now we have to settle for the 100.

At your level of play I actually think that the stick will probably be the wrong choice for you. It's also probably the wrong stick for a junior learning the game as well.

But for a recreational club player....or a 4.0- 4.5 this is an awesome stick amd will really make tennis easier .

Again, I am hoping one day they come out with the specs of a Kblade.

Good luck and I am anxiously awaiting your review.

tlm · Mar 21, 2010

No problem murray mound, but remember that there are 26 mm width beams that play with plenty of control.I am using one right now the wilson kobra team 100 sq.inch head size with 26mm beam+it has great control.

The vortex is really close to identical specs with the kobra that i am playing other than the open string pattern.By the way i am only a 4.0 player myself, but i have found that their is a wide variance in the ranking system depending on were you live.

I am getting ready to go play this afternoon+i will let you know how it goes.

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