Okay, so my racquets sat over the weekend and I took them out again today. I hit with the 10lbs racquet and the 30lbs racquet again, plus one at my regular 52lbs.
Here's my blog from today's hit:
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1167
We shot some video and will try to get it posted soon.
Cheers,
Chris, TW.
A good post - I'm also very interested in this.Chris, Danny,
I think you guys have established that 30 pounds with poly in a mid is a playable, and for some players, an excellent tension.
Chris noted with surprise that he's seeing little string movement initially even at these low tensions. How about after 5-10 hours of play?
And how about effects of tension loss/string wear over those durations? I would think that with lower starting tensions you'd lose less tension due to creep, or elastic deformation, over time, but I'm not sure. Are you finding that the change in feel/performance due to tensions loss over time is greater or less than with your normal tensions?
Thanks for sharing your great experiment.
The experiment continues. Chris hand pulled tension today. Here's his blog:
http://blog.tenniswarehouse.com/?p=1172
Tiffani, TW
The experiment continues. Chris hand pulled tension today. Here's his blog:
Tiffani, TW
Very interesting stuff!
Isn't the turquoise 10 lb marker (or dot) incorrectly placed on the x-axis on graph 1?
Chris, Danny,
I think you guys have established that 30 pounds with poly in a mid is a playable, and for some players, an excellent tension.
Chris noted with surprise that he's seeing little string movement initially even at these low tensions. How about after 5-10 hours of play?
And how about effects of tension loss/string wear over those durations? I would think that with lower starting tensions you'd lose less tension due to creep, or elastic deformation, over time, but I'm not sure. Are you finding that the change in feel/performance due to tensions loss over time is greater or less than with your normal tensions?
Thanks for sharing your great experiment.
So Prof, for the English majors in the audience...what you are saying is the low tension poly is softer and has more dwell time than anything except gut?
Unless we brought gut and nylon down to those low tensions also.
Right...which raises the question: Why focus solely on poly? Are we that confident that poly offers something unique in the lower tension range?
Also, based on Chris' comments it seems like he prefers poly at 30 lbs. Clearly there are other options available that score better than the poly along these dimensions. So is poly offering something else that nylon and gut don't offer here?
What I'm trying to understand what exactly is it about poly at lower tensions that has Chris and others so enamored?
There is noticeably more string movement at 35 lbs vs 52 lbs. Keep in mind that I am using Luxilon M2, which is a co-polyester. If I was using a multifilament string, I am sure the string would be all over the place. I didn't notice much tension less, but I did notice more string wear. I've used Luxilon M2 before, but I never noticed any ball fuzz on the string after testing it and I definitely did not notice the string fraying at 53 lbs, but at 35 lbs I did. I have never had any co-poly string fray on me and I think the ball fuzz and fraying of the string is a sign of how much more spin and dwell time I was experiencing at such a low tension. Also, I am a bigger fan of how the Luxilon M2 string plays at 35 lbs vs 53 lbs. I thought M2 was a responsive and good string for about 6 hours at 53 lbs, but after that 6 hour mark I felt like the string lost power and just became dead feeling. After testing the string for about 12 hours or so at 35 lbs, I haven't noticed any decrease in play with the M2.
Danny, TW
I want to thank you Chris and Danny for this most stimulating post. It prompted me to try some lower tensions and I will report my results from yesterdays on court hit. The lower tension setups I tried are all synthetic gut 16 gauge, one at 35 lbs and one at 45 lbs.
First it should be noted that I am in my late 50's but still produce solid 4.5 level hitting and have had previous wrist and elbow issues. My standard set up is a performance multi main and synthetic gut cross at 50 lbs in a 16x18 prince graphite longbody with lead. This setup provides high power with some trampolining yet lots of touch and loads of spin on demand. I stopped using polys about 5 years ago at the first sign of bodily harm.
First the 45 pounder. Immediately felt much softer, more spin but less control than my normal setup. Nothing solid about this setup and almost had more vibration than normal. I clearly was not hitting as well as normal and I felt it was not a matter of learning to acclimate to this setup.
Next the 35 pounder. Incredibly soft, no sound when hitting. The vibration at 45 was completely gone. I was quite surprised that the power level did not increase at all. The problem was that the accurate sweet spot became tiny. Anything even slightly hit off center would leave at a bit of an unpredictable angle. My hitting partner hits huge serves and I pride myself on my 2 handed return game, but there was no controlling those bombs with this setup. Overall this was way too mushy a setup for me.
So the low tension thing with synthetic gut clearly didn't work for me. I guess I should try poly once again at 30 lbs if you think its safe. Do I dare do a full poly job with my sensitive arms or should I hybrid a poly main with a softer syn gut cross?
There is noticeably more string movement at 35 lbs vs 52 lbs. Keep in mind that I am using Luxilon M2, which is a co-polyester. If I was using a multifilament string, I am sure the string would be all over the place. I didn't notice much tension less, but I did notice more string wear. I've used Luxilon M2 before, but I never noticed any ball fuzz on the string after testing it and I definitely did not notice the string fraying at 53 lbs, but at 35 lbs I did. I have never had any co-poly string fray on me and I think the ball fuzz and fraying of the string is a sign of how much more spin and dwell time I was experiencing at such a low tension. Also, I am a bigger fan of how the Luxilon M2 string plays at 35 lbs vs 53 lbs. I thought M2 was a responsive and good string for about 6 hours at 53 lbs, but after that 6 hour mark I felt like the string lost power and just became dead feeling. After testing the string for about 12 hours or so at 35 lbs, I haven't noticed any decrease in play with the M2.
Danny, TW
There is noticeably more string movement at 35 lbs vs 52 lbs. Keep in mind that I am using Luxilon M2, which is a co-polyester. If I was using a multifilament string, I am sure the string would be all over the place. I didn't notice much tension less, but I did notice more string wear. I've used Luxilon M2 before, but I never noticed any ball fuzz on the string after testing it and I definitely did not notice the string fraying at 53 lbs, but at 35 lbs I did. I have never had any co-poly string fray on me and I think the ball fuzz and fraying of the string is a sign of how much more spin and dwell time I was experiencing at such a low tension. Also, I am a bigger fan of how the Luxilon M2 string plays at 35 lbs vs 53 lbs. I thought M2 was a responsive and good string for about 6 hours at 53 lbs, but after that 6 hour mark I felt like the string lost power and just became dead feeling. After testing the string for about 12 hours or so at 35 lbs, I haven't noticed any decrease in play with the M2.
Danny, TW
Is this TW Professor a real professor? Or something like the Wizard of Oz?
Below are some graphs that show how polys might behave at very low tensions compared to what you are used to with any material strung at higher tensions.
Well, even though I've been stringing around 50 lbs. +/- 5 lbs. for years, I decided I would give 30 a try after reading this thread. Here is my experience:
Dunlop Max 200g - Custom weighted 14.5 oz, 9 pts. head light. Strung with Luxilon Adrenaline, 30 lbs. 5.0 level player.
Played 2 sets of competitive doubles this evening. Unfortunately, 30 lbs. is just not for me. I found it very difficult to control my shots, especially service return. My serve was very inconsistent, flat, kick, or slice. I did not notice any additional spin as some here have indicated. Groundstrokes were ok just hitting, but in a match taking a full cut at the ball, I was all over the place. I switched back to my 47 lbs. and after a game had things dialed back in. Serves much more consistent and could control the service return again.
Maybe the loose tension works well for many, just not for me.
However, I still find it interesting and will continue to follow the experience of others.
Best of luck.
Is this TW Professor a real professor? Or something like the Wizard of Oz?
Just had a couple of hours with my Mantis power at 32lbs and all i can say is f*****g WOW.
The improvement i had when moving from 55 to 45 is relatively the same again from 45 to 32. I have to say the control element is excellent, infact its amazing. I was hitting bombs from the back, loads of topspin but what impressed most was the consistent depth. It suited my swing and extreme grips. I also noticed the higher trajectory hitting from the baseline, i liked that when im hitting out as i can sometimes net it hitting at the top of the bounce. I wasnt doing that with the higher trajectory off the racket.
The touch was great too, real soft and lush.
My serve was the pretty much the same but i did notice a few extra mph on the heater.
One downside was volleying but i think once adjusted......
If i was a flat hitter then id stay away but if you hit with plenty of topspin I think you will deffo like the control and power you get with this tension.
Unbelievable, very happy boy.........
ps...cant wait to try this with full Alu.
By the way, does this low tension significantly expand the sweetspot? I am very curious about that. I would also think the frame would be more comfortable and more forgiving of off center hits - experiences please?