Who would you rather?
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Sephiroth619
Rookie
I want Soderling so he can layeth the smackdown on the Nad again.
roundiesee
Hall of Fame
It's better for Rafa to meet Berdych since he just beat the Czech at IW. But personally I too would like to see a Soderling-Rafa final. But don't count Roddick out yet.
a federer fan wanting nadal to lose? how unpredictable
samprasvsfederer123
Banned
amen brotha
djokovicgonzalez2010
G.O.A.T.
Soderling so he loses....
Semi-Pro
Hall of Fame
Oh go on then, I'll bite
Soderling also, just to prove it wasn't a fluke at the FO last year!!!!
He already proved that at the masters cup last year. In straight sets.
Speranza
Hall of Fame
Ah, but many said that Rafa wasn't back to his normal self then. Where as now....
samprasvsfederer123
Banned
soderling he is the one that is gonna win if he fights nadal but trust me it wont be nadal vs soderling it will be roddick vs soderling and roddick will win
D
Deleted member 22147
Guest
Ever heard of full stops (periods or whatever you Americans call them) or commas?
You've said "trust me" a thousand times including the Nadal Nalbandian match, which you got totally wrong.
djokovicgonzalez2010
G.O.A.T.
On one hand, Nadal OWNS Roddick. On the other, the pressure of trying to beat a Top 8 player for the 1st time since May could get to him. Sadly, I think Nadal will get his first Top 8 win tomorow.
The-Champ
Legend
Not that I think that Roddick will win, but Nadal and Roddick are 2-2 on hard courts (I heard on TV today). Not really "OWNING" him. Could be a good match.
namelessone
Legend
LOL at the nemesis label put on these guys.
Soderling should be the toughest,birdman is doing a ljubicic at this point and youzhny is audi. Also,funny how people equate Rafa losing to sod on clay while having physical problems(as proven by the withdrawals afterwards) to him losing on HC to him as if they are the same thing forgetting that HC favours the swede everytime. But hey,whatever floats their boat.
And yeah,it is funny how most fed fans turned into sod fans. I can't imagine why
Soderling should be the toughest,birdman is doing a ljubicic at this point and youzhny is audi. Also,funny how people equate Rafa losing to sod on clay while having physical problems(as proven by the withdrawals afterwards) to him losing on HC to him as if they are the same thing forgetting that HC favours the swede everytime. But hey,whatever floats their boat.
And yeah,it is funny how most fed fans turned into sod fans. I can't imagine why
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
LOL at the nemesis label put on these guys.
Soderling should be the toughest,birdman is doing a ljubicic at this point and youzhny is audi. Also,funny how people equate Rafa losing to sod on clay while having physical problems(as proven by the withdrawals afterwards) to him losing on HC to him as if they are the same thing forgetting that HC favours the swede everytime. But hey,whatever floats their boat.
And yeah,it is funny how most fed fans turned into sod fans. I can't imagine why
BS, Soderling kicked his cheating ass fair and square at the French, it was such a beatdown, the boy still has not recovered from it mentally.
What would be best for the kid now known as "The Human Rain Delay" is a close loss to Roddick in the Semifinals.
I fear another beating from Soderling may result in a withdrawal from the clay season for mental recovery
One thing is for sure Soderling won't stand for Nadal's cheating delay tactics like Tsonga
did, Tsonga was far too nice , the biased umpire screwed him over the entire match.
He tries to pull that crap on Sod, and he will come across the net and give Nadal an atomic wedgie right in front of 14,000 people,that he will never be able to pull out,career over.
namelessone
Legend
Nadal was clearly marked when he beat soderling in their last match. And on HC.
It is good to know that Nadal haters know where Rafa's decline started and most importantly,the sole reason for his mental lapses recently(I'm sure that soderling beating him at RG was the only thing on his mind when he missed MP's in doha or when he was dumping easy BH and FH into the net with ljubicic after he had played some great matches before). Fed fans will pick madrid as the turning point. Newly found sod fans will pick RG. Neutrals will pick the numerous HC beatdowns from last year. Nadal fans(me included) will say not being able to enter Wimbledon becaue he overplayed in the clay season with pain in knees. So many choices...
Oh,and it seems most umpires just loooove Nadal,why else would they let him get away with it,right?
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Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LMFAO, guess your theory that the delay tactics Nadal uses, don't bother any players got blown out of the damn water last match, huh. I believe we debated about that before, guess I was right the entire time. Nadal cheats, deal with it.
P.S if the best retort you can come up with is a dumb picture and the same stupid saying used by countless other juveniles, better to remain quiet, now I just think you are an ignorant fanboy kid not worthy of a debate.
LMFAO, guess your theory that the delay tactics Nadal uses, don't bother any players got blown out of the damn water last match, huh. I believe we debated about that before, guess I was right the entire time. Nadal cheats, deal with it.
P.S if the best retort you can come up with is a dumb picture and the same stupid saying used by countless other juveniles, better to remain quiet, now I just think you are an ignorant fanboy kid not worthy of a debate.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
Let me know when the cheating Human Rain delay is at 100% health,will you, by the way guess I can use the same BS if Soderling loses, since he is wearing a knee wrap, if he plays cheatboy, and loses it will be because he is playing marked and his dog died last year.
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namelessone
Legend
So let me see: we have federer,tsonga,soderling,agassi if I remember correctly... who else?
Like I said before,and sorry for repeating myself,only those who show that they are bothered count. Most guys who play against Nadal don't mind the 10seconds extra becasue they would likely be playing long exhausting rallies with Rafa and they welcome some extra rest. I never said that players don't mind the time-wasting I just said that MOST players don't mind it and it still holds true. The guys I mentioned up there are guys who like to play fast. Guess what,most guys on tour today don't or you would see a lot more complaining. Four or so guys is pretty few considering that Nadal has been wasting time for at least 4 years or so.
I would be going bonkers if I would value what every anonymous person on the internet thinks of me. For me the arguments and counter arguments count. It is nothing personal even though many here seem to take it that way(bickering about players to ilicit responses from fans).
Oh,and "fanboy kid",really? As opposed to fanboy adult?
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
Oh, have you not heard about the last umpire Carlos Ramos that called Rafa on time delay, Uncle Baloney decided to rip him in the media, for doing his job and asked that he not umpire anymore of Nadal's matches, complete BS,cheaters.
namelessone
Legend
As far as I know soderling hasn't had major knee troubles since 05' since he had surgery. Most recently he had some elbow problems. Meanwhile Nadal's BS injuries has caused him to miss 3 GS by age 24(one of them being WB),DC final,the Paris masters last year(where he retired),queens 09' etc.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
OH, ok I see it is alright to cheat as long as you can get away with it, huh? give me a break.
Yeah, fanboy kid, since I see the weak "cool story bro" used by kids who can't think of any competent rebuttal.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
Soderling missed 2 months of the season last year with injuries and nearly a month this year, funny how *******s think Nadal is the only player on tour who is ever hurt, BS again.
namelessone
Legend
So we have one guy,who called out Nadal,Carlos Ramos. Why didn't other call him out? You have to remember that he was doing this before he was a star. I could understand the star status giving him protection but why would they protect him when he was a virtual unkonwn? Probably because umpires follow the flow of the game,not necesarrily the rules. As other users have pointed out,many guys today go to 30-35 secs(rallies are longer cause most surfaces are slowed down a bit) if you count from when the point is over. Nadal overdoes it sometimes by going to 40-50 but this is rare,though I have to say,if you read TTW you would think he does this on every point.
BTW,Carlos Ramos is a pretty high profile umpire. Did he umpire Nadal again after that thing with tony?
namelessone
Legend
I'm pretty sure Nadal has been more injured than Soderling,at least where big tourney coming up are concerned. Sure,it's tough when you are injured before a 500 or masters and such but Nadal missed the whole clay season 04',AO 06' with foot injury,missed two months and a half at the end of 08',missed a month after AO 2010. And these are just the "high profile" injuries.
And yep,it does matter more for Nadal since cannot rely on a serve like soderling.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
Pretty obvious why, umpires are paid by the matches they call, Nadal generally makes it deep into the tourney and plays the show court, if you call him out on it, Uncle Toni will
complain and next thing you know you are no longer umpiring big matches and are now the bad guy. Media controls perception , Nadal's popularity allows him to get away with BS, left and right.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
I don't buy it, sorry, Nadal over plays every little thing wrong like it is the possible end of his career, the guy called the trainer because he he got a piece of banana stuck in his throat, surprised he didn't take 2 weeks off to recover from that.
I was at quite a few tournaments last year, and the supposedly injured Nadal was out on the practice courts twice as long as any other player, his injuries are simply overhyped BS.
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namelessone
Legend
Sorry but this is MTF stuff right here.
Most Nadal fans gave Murray credit after AO and recognised that Rafa's injury was freakish and had nothing to do with the game. Likewise nothing was said about Rafa's health after he lost in IW.
If you payed attention you would see that when Rafa's health was questioned he DID have some major issues,which he tried to hide while in competition,and the evidence was that he was FORCED to bail out in the next tourneys.
A few recent examples:
Paris-Bercy 08': Nadal is getting breasticked by Davy,retires and the trolling starts on TW and MTF. Nadal never plays another match that year,retiring from TMC and DC final.
Rotterdam 09': Nadal gets injured during rotterdam final,stays on court for Murray's sake but then is forced to withdraw from Dubai one week later.
After RG 09': after stupidly overscheduling in the clayseason while playing with pain,Rafa loses in 4th round in RG and misses queens(defending champ),DC round,wimbledon(defending champ).
After USO 09': After he has a abdomen tear,he skips bangkok one week later.
After AO 10': he busts his knee on a dropper and misses rotterdam one week later.
namelessone
Legend
Why are you ignoring the line that Nadal was doing this since before he was really famous? Oh,I know why,because it dismantles your argument that "umpires are scared to call out Rafa because of his rep".
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namelessone
Legend
So Nadal is just skipping **** left and right because he wants to fake injuries,right? Nevermind the fact that he gives everything in every event he enters,regardless of form or what kind of a tourney it is. This guy gives everything on court yet just walks away blissfully from tournaments like queens,rotterdam(500) and wimbledon. What is the practice bit supposed to prove? When Nadal has kickin legs he practices. Hard. He practiced long even when he came back for IW this year. Nadal goes and goes until he can go no more. That's the kind of player he is,he does not know how to pace himself.
namelessone
Legend
I have no problem with "haters",I just wish that they could bring something to the table that can't be dismissed in a couple of phrases by using simple logic.
Someone tells me that there are much better players than Rafa on HC?
I agree.
Someone tells me that Fed has a better career and that he has more variety?
I agree.
Someone tells me that Rafa butt picks and wastes too much time?
I agree.
Someone tells me that Rafa's game is ugly?
I don't agree but to each his own.
But I can't agree about BS like "Rafa is a quitter"(easily disproved by the fact that he has stayed on court for major beatdowns),rafa fakes his injuries(easily disproved by the fact that he always takes time off-sometimes two months or more- and after them and comes back looking rusty or tentative) or that rafa was perfectly fine at the french physically(despite staying out of the game two months afterwards,missing two important tourneys).
I just need some logic to go on,not just way too biased "arguments".
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
Not ignoring anything he has always cheated, now that he is high profile it is just much easier. Let's make one thing clear right now, Uncle Toni taught Rafa everything he could, to gain any little advantage even if it is borderline illegal.
namelessone
Legend
True,here are his instructions:
Holy crap,that was also in a tsonga match:shock:
This can't be a coincidence.
Getting serious for a moment,Tony has not only teached Nadal to cheat,but has also given him a very serious work ethic and has developed his game as we know it today,second only in terms of success to fed(for this era I mean). This tony guy isn't half bad.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
Funny stuff, you want to talk logic, than you post that Nadal is not a quitter, as if he has never retired a match in his career, think you may be confused with Federer here, No?
Answer this for me has Nadal ever quit a match when he could have continued?
Answer this for me also, did Nadal state prior to Wimbledon that he did not want to play the tournament if he thought he could not win? Let me know your answer, I will post a quote if need be.
Lastly, you don't know anything about the true severity of Nadal's injuries, all you know is what is reported by the media and than over hyped and sensationalized by *******s the world over. There is no logic in this because it is all based on your speculation.
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namelessone
Legend
Nope,if he felt good enough to stay on court(just two examples:he played with a massive blister in Rome 08' against JCF and lost,stayed on court for a demolition with delpo in USO with an abdominal tear). I have only followed Rafa since 04' so I can't speak before that but every retirement Rafa has ever had since then has been followed by a break from tennis,sometimes quite long. As for the label quitter,you may be misinterpreting. I was merely using logic to disprove the argument that he quits,you know,just cause he feels like it not that he has never quit(but his motivation for withdrawing had medical reasons). If he is a serial quitter why not fake a injury(and take 1-2 weeks off just for kicks) in any of the massive beatdowns from last year? Or years before. Or when he lost to youzhny 6-1,6-0 while being gassed after a killer semi with moya.Why did he not fake a injury then? According to your logic he should have.
Nadal enters all tourneys to win. I know that. Actually,he said that he could not enter WB if he had no chance to win(that was a quote if I remember) based on his knees. Please don't take it out of context. Rafa did not have the hardest draw at WB in 09'. He said that if the pain is too big while playing he cannot focus on his game,hence he cannot win(nadal always says he needs to play his best to win big tourneys). And how can you win a potential 7 matches in three out of five format on wobbly knees? A correct assesment on his part. Nadal wants to win all tournaments but he knows that he can't win some(see montreal 09' where he said that he has few chances there right after injury) but chooses to enter if it is on the schedule and if he is healthy. To win a tourney like WB you have to be healthy enough to last three out of five matches. Nadal was grimacing and having trouble bending in a two setter exo(after two weeks rest),how was he gonna make it past 1-2 rounds?
Guess what,neither do you,you just think you do. Overhyped and oversensationalized they may be according to you,but many leading experts in medicine have said that Nadal's knees don't give promise for a long career.
And yes,just like the umpires,they are all *******s. Just like the world is full of *******s for Nadal trolls.
So everything is based on speculation? How about your assesment that Nadal's mental problems CLEARLY started since RG? Isn't that speculation when there are others(not neceassarily nadal fans) who may disagree? Maybe it was his wimbledon withdrawal? Or something else? Personal reason? Can you see into Nadal's head? How do you know? Oh that's right,you are SPECULATING. Where were those "demons" when he beat sod in that high quality exo? Sod is a good player and he is a bad match-up for rafa but I hate the mythicization that has been going on these few months,that HE was the cause for all Nadal's problems,not Nadal's overscheduling,not his forced wimbledon withdrawal,not Nadal's style of play,not Nadal's 10 or so beatdowns last year,not his parents divorce. Nope just Sod cause we need a new rivalry,right?
I don't know these athletes and neither do you. But if a guy stays on court for demolishments and retires in other matches while claiming injuries AND takes time off EVERY time, I'm willing to bet he had some real problems. Either that or TMC,DC final,AO,RG(I am talking clay season 04'),WB,Queens don't mean **** to Nadal.
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Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
I never said Nadal was a serial quitter, here is my speculation which seems a little bit more reasonable to assume than the ignorant claims of *******s that their Nadal is a near cripple at certain tournaments where he happens to lose ..... a few weeks later he wins 3-4 matches and says he is 100% and every ******* comes crawling out of Nadal's wedge to proclaim him as back to 2008 Nadal.
No, here is what I think is more reasonable to assume based on my own observations as I have been at many Tournaments watched him practice and than heard the press about his injuries.
Nadal and his team over state his injuries, he claimed a torn abdominal last year, I can tell you I watched him practice for hours no way did he have a torn ab as it was portrayed by his team and the media, No one in the world could play with a torn abdominal and no way does it heal without weeks of complete rest. He had what most athletes would call an abdominal strain, a microscopic tear, which causes mild discomfort. The injury was exaggerated.
So, knowing that this injury was exaggerated it leads me to believe other injuries are also exaggerated, No?
namelessone
Legend
Nope,he had a microtear in his abdomen just like with the torn tendon in 2010. Microtears heal faster. If you had a torn tendon you couldn't stand up properly let alone play tennis. His team did not exaggerate anything,they told the press what the doctor told them. Even Rafa said that his problem in USO only made him hit out wide or center,but he could not hit down the T because he would have to rotate his torso in a position in which he would feel pain from the microtear. So it had no major bearing on the match. After AO 2010 Rafa said he felt he played great but was shaky in the major moments and was THE FIRST to say that Murray played better. So again,no major bearing on the match.
Regarding your first paragraph: sure,there are unreasonable nadal "fans" who find excuses for every loss but there is no need to lump everyone who supports nadal in with them. Why ask me if Nadal is 100% since I did not start this craze? I mean,there are a lot of fed trolls(very active in the latter half of last year,weird how that is,right?) but I can't mix them in with guys like zagor,abmk,P_agony and so on.
Point is that I should not take responsability for what another Nadal fan said,we are not a homogenous group who think alike. I can only take responsability for my own post and arguments.
Regarding you watching him practice: Guess what,there were a lot of people who watched him practice in IW and he was practicing hard,so much that people could not believe that he had a problem before. But he did,he did not play tennis for two weeks to give the knee a rest. What you where watching is Nadal AFTER he healed his problems. When he had problems that required not that much time to rest he stayed 1-2 weeks before coming back. When he had a more serious issue,he stayed as much as three months. It is one thing to have a microtear and another to be in constant pain from tendinitis after overworking your body in a short period of time.
Examples: Nadal carried a microtear(he had a patch on his stomach) on his abdomen through USO,did not retire but still took time off. He ended his run in USO on the 15th of September if I remember correctly and came back in action on the 4th of October in China. That's 2 weeks and a bit,skipping thailand along the way.
Nadal battered his knees on clay,playing with pain in his knees since MC(April) until 31 May(4th round). Even with 2 weeks of rest he was still in too much pain while playing to enter WB. Nadal did not play any official matches in the 31 May-9th of August. That's almost two months and a half.
There is a big difference but just because the rest period was shorter than with other injuries,it does not mean they did not happen or that they did not affect him in some way. I have already discussed that Nadal has stayed on court with manageable problems,even while receiving beatdowns. Nadal withdraws only when the pain is too big for him to focus on his game.
Lsmkenpo
Hall of Fame
The injury was overstated by him and his team and exaggerated by the media and a portion of his fans, just as is the case with all
his injuries, whether this is done intentionally or not. Of course this is my opinion, but I feel it is more reasonable than what you will hear from a *******.
As far as you taking responsibility for what another Nadal fan said, you stepped in front of me when I was in the process of beating some sense into an unreasonable *******'s
post in another thread, thus you now received part of the blow, watch were you are going, if you don't want me to put you into that group. I suggest staying well away from any thread with TheTruth in it, I have a lot of work to do there.
T
TheMagicianOfPrecision
Guest
Id love to see the big mighty Swede crush Nadal
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
i would prefer soderling in the final... yes, a soderling-roddick rematch would be nice.
but as long as there isn't any nadal in the final, that will be fine for me.
but as long as there isn't any nadal in the final, that will be fine for me.
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