No not really lock it, but lay it back during forward swing just let is naturally come forward after contact. No snapping, rolling or anything like that.
not so certain about this statement. the flex which happens with the LOOSE wrist is a natural component of a fundamental forehand. during the loop, the loose wrist will naturally trail behind in a laid back position especially as the arm begins its forward momentum toward the ball. that quick movement of the arm forward with place the loose wrist in a laid back position exposing the buttcap of the racquet to the ball. as the racquet makes its way to the contact point, the wrist will automatically snap forward through the stroke.Watch the pros, all of them snap the wrist forward right when making contact.
Watch the pros, all of them snap the wrist forward right when making contact. This is how they generate such ridiculous pace while looking so smooth. Little snap through the ball is good but never lock your wrist.
Watch the pros, all of them snap the wrist forward right when making contact. This is how they generate such ridiculous pace while looking so smooth. Little snap through the ball is good but never lock your wrist.
Lock wrist on forehand?
After briefly picking up a racket I fail to see how it is at all possible to generate any sort of racket head speed without using the wrist.
Sorry no wrist snapping, it's may look like it but in reality it isn't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gZ6RIkQ9IU:
Can't explain it any better than this:
http://www.blip.tv/file/1181011
Sorry no wrist snapping, it's may look like it but in reality it isn't.
No not really lock it, but lay it back during forward swing just let is naturally come forward after contact. No snapping, rolling or anything like that.
Sorry no wrist snapping, it's may look like it but in reality it isn't. Can't explain it any better than this:
http://www.blip.tv/file/1181011
Federer: It’s my personal hitting style; this is how my game evolved. There is no secret behind it. I always had a fast wrist, which helps.
not so certain about this statement. the flex which happens with the LOOSE wrist is a natural component of a fundamental forehand. during the loop, the loose wrist will naturally trail behind in a laid back position especially as the arm begins its forward momentum toward the ball. that quick movement of the arm forward with place the loose wrist in a laid back position exposing the buttcap of the racquet to the ball. as the racquet makes its way to the contact point, the wrist will automatically snap forward through the stroke.
Originally Posted by USERNAME View Post
Watch the pros, all of them snap the wrist forward right when making contact. This is how they generate such ridiculous pace while looking so smooth. Little snap through the ball is good but never lock your wrist.
You wouldn't notice because the swing looks exactly the same whether you use your wrist or not. The wrist looks laid back or locked at contact either way.
You can obviously hit a forehand without pronating the wrist, I'm not saying that you can't, but if you pronate and use your wrist you create a lot more racket head speed, spin, and whip, instead of just moving your whole arm straight; you're not gonna get an aggressive upward swing nor move the racket as fast like that.
Just because Will makes a fancy video doesn't mean it's carved in stone or that he's right.
I should say though, that with high balls it's different, you don't use your wrist that much with a high ball as opposed to with anything chest-high and lower.
Still not convinced? Read this:
Quoted: "He hits many times with lots of wrist action, and contact point far in front, a unique technique in the tour". Was this taught or just your personal hitting style?
Federer: It’s my personal hitting style; this is how my game evolved. There is no secret behind it. I always had a fast wrist, which helps.
http://www.rogerfederer.com/en/fanzone/askroger/index.cfm?uNC=72281979&uPage=2&uCategoryID=2
What some of you guys still do not understand is that while you can use a lot of wrist on your stroke, you need it laid back on impact for that split second. Even Federer's is if you watch slo mo of him. It's pretty obvious stuff. Will's video is dead on and the players hitting in it are former pros.
It's not laid back as much as it is at the start of the forward stroke though..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQvbT8uEGk&feature=related
When the butt cap is pointed to the ball its laid back the most - but by contact its laid back alot less. This is because the wrist does release at the very least, IMHO.
The wrist movement isn't an extension (like in a basketball jumpshot) but there is some deviation and alot of pronation going on from what I can see..
I don't think though its important to micromanage the wrist that much though.. 'snap' isn't a technical word. Some pros use it to describe the the rapid pronation of the entire forearm..
Yes, but I guess the issue is really what is the best approach for the average club player.
Obviously, if you keep everything loose and swing your arm laterally from side to side, you will see that your wrist lays back & then recovers. So, basically, on the transition from the backswing to the swing to contact, a loose wrist will naturally lag & lay back.
So long as the arm continues to accelerate to, and through contact, the wrist will continue to lag the arm and remain laid back unless you deliberately propel it forward. Only when the arm decelerates will the wrist and hand 'catch up' with the arm and overtake.
So, the key to this is acceleration. What I see with a lot of lower level club players is that they actually decelerate into the ball. This happens particularly when players focus on everything up until the ball and forget the importance of the follow through.
To get strokes grooved, forehand and backhand, it's not a bad idea to ensure that you're actually accelerating through contact. In other words, start the swing to contact slowly and really feel the acceleration through the ball.
IMHO the tennis mass/weight of an incoming tennis ball when struck at you from the other side of the court, is way too much to control and be matched by the wrist, a relatively weak joint that also has way less leverage to create any signicant power/rotation since being so close the hand/racquet. It's just totally overpowered by the incoming tennis ball when struck with some pace. Add to that that you give up control/stability and the risk of injury and it just doesn't seem a good idea to use the wrist actively when hitting forehands.
With a serve it's different, because the forces on the joint are way less (many multiple times), there's no opposite movement of the ball. In fact there's hardly any movement.
Maybe with a guy like Fed and a limited amount of other highly skilled players it's different. They may have such impeccable coordination and wrist strenght that they actually can add something by seperate wrist action and get away with it. I wouldn't recommend it to any intermediate or even advaced player though, and I think what's stated above is also the reason why Will doesn't in his FYB video's.
Look at Fed's forehand right before he swings forward - about 12 seconds. The racquet actually turns back a bit and points behind his body.. That's what I am talking about..
What some of you guys still do not understand is that while you can use a lot of wrist on your stroke, you need it laid back on impact for that split second. Even Federer's is if you watch slo mo of him. It's pretty obvious stuff. Will's video is dead on and the players hitting in it are former pros.
You're completely wrong. You make a full swing and use all the arm, but you use the wrist like a whip. You don't use only the wrist in isolation.
You think the pros start using it only when they become pros?
The movement I'm talking about would probably be called "pronating" or whatever, and yes the wrist is always "laid back" at contact even if you do this, I already told you it looks exactly the same as a swing in which you wouldn't use the wrist, but you refuse to understand. The movement is completely in a "windshield wiper" fashion.
You can see on either of the 2 federer video's on this site's homepage, that when he starts swinging forward his wrist lags behind and goes into layed back position. This is due to a relaxed wrist plus the momentum of the arm swinging forward. You can see his wrist layed back through contact on both video's and his wrist is released forward a couple of frames afterwards. The pronation, however, happens at contact. The arm as a whole turn sideways (or pronate), although the wrist/forearm does this faster (especially in federer's case). The wrist doesn't get snapped.
From contact, if you go a couple of frames ahead you can see federer's wrist "release" from the layed back position to neutral position as he follows through.
If the wrist releases too early and you contact the ball with your wrist in neutral (or even further) you loose control/spin/power on your shot (if using a modern technique).
That's what I said. When the forearm pronates, the wrist has to do so as well. But then again, it's not like you snap, flick or roll your wrist actively. Just not healthy and it messes up your stroke.
No I don't.. I even doubt that they do, but when Fed said he does use an active wrist who am I to say he doesn't.
Leaving open the possiblity he actually does
In your first post, you said the wrist was not laid back, so you have contradicted yourself.
You are just coming off as a know it all
You are also getting confused in what you are saying
How do you know? You don't even use it. It didn't mess my stroke at all, in fact I'm hitting better than I ever did when I didn't think about using the wrist.
As for health, it also took care of my previous problems. Now the weight of the racket is not even a concern, and my arm doesn't even get tired. I used to get some pains in the inside part of my elbow and all over my right shoulder when I used to hit, but now they are completely gone. Attempting to hit without using the wrist lays all the stress and weight on the Aponeurosis m. bicipitis brachii area because you're just like pushing the racket with your arm without using the wrist, it's crazy. That's why I got so tired and the weight of the racket was bothering me. Not to mention that you swing a lot slower, resulting in less spin and pace.
Exactly, who are you to say he doesn't, he does. They told him that he hits with a lot of "wrist action" and he confirmed that he does and you're still saying "maybe he does, maybe he doesn't". It couldn't be clearer.
Lol, the man just said that he does.
Lets get this straight, you should lay your wrist back at contact and you should pronate your wrist/forearm at contact.
In the forehand swing, the only thing your wrist can actually do is snap forward, which is a big no no. The pronating is done by your forearm/arm (point your palm up to the sky, then down to the floor), lay your wrist back then do the same motion. You'll see the same motion as you get from hitting forehands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi7ahE-NYE8
The very wristy forehands that federer hits here is due to his extremely fast pronation (caused by his slingshot forehand), and his wrist releasing from layed back position to neutral in a smooth motion.
The wrist releasing should be natural, but the pronation on the other hand is debatable. Lots of players say the pronation should be natural, while others like to due it concsiously. I guess it's up to what you feel is better.
Some players i see that try to force the pronation, try to brush up with the pronation causing a lot of mishits and shanks.
In the end, to each his own. I'll keep doing it and improving upon it because it has definitely improved all my shots, fh, bh and serves, and I have very reliable sources telling me this is what the pros do. Consistency, speed, spin pace etc. have all improved dramatically since I started using the wrist.
Federer is using his wrist big time on those forehands, even on the backhand, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The way the racket ends is a big giveaway of this.
Perhaps I should make a video making clear what I'm talking about, because maybe you're confusing what I'm saying with something else.
In the end, to each his own. I'll keep doing it and improving upon it because it has definitely improved all my shots, fh, bh and serves, and I have very reliable sources telling me this is what the pros do. Consistency, speed, spin pace etc. have all improved dramatically since I started using the wrist.
Federer is using his wrist big time on those forehands, even on the backhand, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The way the racket ends is a big giveaway of this.
Perhaps I should make a video making clear what I'm talking about, because maybe you're confusing what I'm saying with something else.
The myth of no wrist is strong on this forum. But I know what you are saying and agree with you. With Federer the easiest shot to see his wrist use is probably the OHBH. He finishes very often with his racquet pointing to the left fence. If he used his wrist less it would point either up or to the right fence.
He just supinates ALOT on his backhand - and thus he has that finish. Henin does the exact same thing. On the forehand its more of a doornob turning action..
Most people hate the wrist because many players use them incorrectly and slap at the ball. This leads to terrible inconsistent ugly play. But no wrist use leads to wooden "mechanical" looking strokes. Using the wrist correctly is just part of playing better tennis.
So you're saying you should actively pronate your wrist at contact and that your wrist should snap forward a little? At contact is the wrist layed back? Any other way the wrist is used on the forehand (normal ones)?