TennisMaverick, I'm interested in the London but have noticed the stiffness rating listed from 63 at TW to 70 at a couple of other places. Is this racquet basically arm-friendly (coming from a Volkl heritage, I would think so) and is it your experience that it is really as stiff as 70? Thanks.
The Völk PB10 Mid Club - please join :)
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TennisMaverick, I'm interested in the London but have noticed the stiffness rating listed from 63 at TW to 70 at a couple of other places. Is this racquet basically arm-friendly (coming from a Volkl heritage, I would think so) and is it your experience that it is really as stiff as 70? Thanks.
Hey thanks again Maverick, i'm pretty new here and read some of your other posts. you certainly know your stuff. i went back to the TW reviews on the PB93 and the serve rating was much higher than for the C10 MId+ so i will try it on your recommendation. i also read your office is in NYC, I'm in NJ near Giants Stadium and have taught tennis here for many years,,Tennis is growing big in some of our areas and i'm sure you might have been around here sometimes..send me an email comeback@safe-mail.net as i have some good tennis stuff/stories for you..best regards ps Llodra is the man who is singlehandidly showing people that serve and volley done properly still wins matches on any level
TennisMaverick
Banned
They refined all of the Becker sticks with DC and slight design changes, and there is just something with the DeltaCore; it does a lot at a lighter weight, but still plays soft.
Whatever the Legend's stiffness rating is, the guy who works with me who has the worst of all of the players chronic injuries with bad wrist issues, and at 27 yrs old, stays away from poly, finds the London to be really comfortable, and he always played with a Volkl 10 93in2 until the DNX 10 MP. The DNX10 MP was a little harsh, and he bypassed the PB 10 for the Legend--which another one of my guys uses, who has worse than tennis elbow, having bad tendinosis--and then, found the London to be even easier on the arm then the Legend was.
I have a neck/shoulder issue, and both of those frames are comfortable to me, although I play with the PB 10 Mid. In conclusion, three players who all play 5.5 and above, and all with chronic arm issues, find both sticks very easy on the body, and although I use Volkl, and know that many people have issues with BB's name on his own sticks, I am impressed with the quality of each and every frame.
Thanks, TennisMaverick. I've been a Volkl user for quite some time (mostly various versions of the V1) and enjoy the feel of these racquets; just wasn't sure what to expect with the London. Demo'd it for a week a while back and liked it at that time but after seeing the various flex ratings listed for it since that time, wondered if it might be too stiff for me in the long run (I've also dealt with arm/shoulder issues in the past so want to stick with an arm-friendly racquet). But the use of it by some of your players seem to be the best support for nullifying my worries of it being too stiff or non-arm friendly.
Have been tempted in trying out the Legend, but I prefer racquets in the mid 11 oz range, so will probably stick with trying the London out, maybe adding some weight, and playing with various string setups (you previously gave me some advice on that in another thread).
Have been tempted in trying out the Legend, but I prefer racquets in the mid 11 oz range, so will probably stick with trying the London out, maybe adding some weight, and playing with various string setups (you previously gave me some advice on that in another thread).
TennisMaverick
Banned
Don't forget that at their level, they are clubbing groundies, and the London works fine for what ails them. They are also stringing around 65-68 lbs.
Wow; pretty tight! Mostly for control? Also, what strings are they using? Assuming no poly if having arm problems?
TennisMaverick
Banned
NRG2 and/or Gripper. They use the tensions that provide for the best ball quality without having to change their rhythms.
I am finally joining in, at least for a "trial period"I am getting my PB 10 mid today and hope to hit a few balls tomorrow. I am curious how different it is to my Fischers.
Be sure to give us a mini review of your new racquet!
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
It's definitely a soft feeling racquet and it also has a very low frequency rating of 142, so I think it is indeed an arm friendly racquet. Another similar, very soft feeling racquet is the PB10 295.
As of today, I now have both the PB 10 Lite (295) and the London. Have had the PB 10L for a few weeks now so looking forward to test-driving them both to see how they compare.
TennisMaverick
Banned
The PB 10 Light is done. Why would you want to play with a stick that Volkl recognized as flawed? In the future, all 98in2 10's will only be 16 mains, especially 10 Lights.
I'm not as tied in to Volkl racquet design strategies as yoiu are so was not aware of the new direction they were going in until after I purchased. Curious, what about the stick did Volkl recognize as "flawed"?
TennisMaverick
Banned
PB 10 Light....that is why I said that they are going to all 16 mains moving forward. The BB 11 Light was very successful w/16 mains. It is difficult to hit thru a ball at such a light weight with 18 mains, or, to get much bite if you're using the PB 10 MP Light's lightness for increased racquet head acceleration, but with 18 mains.
The only people it worked for are for those who wanted heavier frames with a lot of customization. This allowed you to add the weight where you want, and still keep it under the PB 10 MP's weight, or even equal it, but with your own playing properties due to your customization.
Just tried a new setup on my PB10 mid per TennisMaverick's recommendation and I thought that I would post my thoughts.
I always noticed a little flex (wobble) in the upper hoop on hard-struck groundstrokes and serves. I applied 1.5 inches of .25 inch lead tape at 10 and 2. The racquet seems to play dramatically different, without affecting swingweight too much. There is absolutely no noticeable flex in the upper hoop anymore and even though the frame is still soft, if feels more solid. My PB10 mids with overgrip and vibration absorber come in at 12.7 ounces now.
I also tried my PB10 mid with a poly for the first time today. I had used poly in stiffer frames such as the PB8 last year, but developed a bad and prolonged case of tennis elbow. Since TW was out of Volkl Cyclone, I strung my PB10 mid with RPM Blast 17 at 48m/45c. Practiced this morning for over an hour and I had no arm issues whatsoever. The poly, IMO, also tames a lot of the inherent power in this frame. It really allows you to hit out on your groundstrokes.
I always noticed a little flex (wobble) in the upper hoop on hard-struck groundstrokes and serves. I applied 1.5 inches of .25 inch lead tape at 10 and 2. The racquet seems to play dramatically different, without affecting swingweight too much. There is absolutely no noticeable flex in the upper hoop anymore and even though the frame is still soft, if feels more solid. My PB10 mids with overgrip and vibration absorber come in at 12.7 ounces now.
I also tried my PB10 mid with a poly for the first time today. I had used poly in stiffer frames such as the PB8 last year, but developed a bad and prolonged case of tennis elbow. Since TW was out of Volkl Cyclone, I strung my PB10 mid with RPM Blast 17 at 48m/45c. Practiced this morning for over an hour and I had no arm issues whatsoever. The poly, IMO, also tames a lot of the inherent power in this frame. It really allows you to hit out on your groundstrokes.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
So how about a little comparison between the two? I think they are a quite similar with the London swinging a little heavier. I think they have similar power levels and the PB might feel a little softer. I really like the PB10L and you can add weight to it if its too lite for you.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
There is nothing "flawed" in the design. The PB lite is simply the same as the PB10 MP, but a little lighter. The PB10 MP and the PB10 mid are both very successful racquets and the PB10L is just a little lighter version of those. I didnt find the pattern too closed and got plenty of pop off the stringbed, when strung low tension with multi/copoly hybrid.
Soon as the weather clears a bit (been raining a lot here in northern Cal), I'll do just that and will let you know!
What string set-up have you been using?
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
I have been using NRG2 mains and Scorpion or Hyperion crosses at 54/52
TennisMaverick
Banned
Very few Volkl guys share that opinion. They wish that they kept the BB 11 Light longer, as it filled the bill for that player niche much better than the PB 10 Light. Sales alone tells the story, and the PB 10 Light was left hanging, hence, all 10's moving forward will be 16 mains. Besides, everyone wants a true modern upgrade to the C 10 Pro.
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mnehls
New User
After 6 months experimenting settled on MSV focus hex 1.10mm at 52lbs for the PB10 mid.
Used to have tennis elbow, now it is gone. (Was using a PDRGT+ before switching to the Volkl)
Also chose ASICS GR2's for comfort over my Nike 2.3's
1st goal = No Pain Tennis
2nd goal = Improve my Game
Used to have tennis elbow, now it is gone. (Was using a PDRGT+ before switching to the Volkl)
Also chose ASICS GR2's for comfort over my Nike 2.3's
1st goal = No Pain Tennis
2nd goal = Improve my Game
TennisMaverick
Banned
Firstly, now that we switched, lets hope that the stalker yo-yo's don't follow....
To answer your question...are you ready for a long one...I prefer to give some background.
First off, you need a little perspective. All of our racquet mods are done with an on-site competitive mindset. Everything, is done with a competitive mindset. PERIOD. Therefore, there is no $5,000.00 USD Babolat Diagnostic Machine, because there are few of them on the road.
The first step is to always match personal specs when handed a new stick. However, without the machine, you only have your hand, balance point, and overall weight. SW calculations are bogus, or this question of yours would be unnecessary. Since we are all Volkl users, our mod MO is to add lead to the same places, in the same amount, but with being mindful for adjustments in balance and weight. We usually counter balance with lead under the grip. Once the lead is applied, we play.
Sometimes, the stick's inherent qualities produce differences in the player, subconsciously, which is fine, if the ball quality remains the same or better. When that happens, mods are frequently modified, and the player now has aa new set of personal specs. If it doesn't happen, we look at the mods. In this case, the PB 10 Mid vs the PB 10 MP, we quickly realized that the mods in the MP, made the stick clunky. In turn, we removed some weight at 2/10, and that solved the problem. Conversely, we realized that the PB 10 Mid, was too quick, so we added lead at the same spots that we remove tape from on the MP. This was all done by feel. Then, we put the sticks on the diagnostic machine, and we missed only by 1 pt in SW. That is how it should be done.
With the MP, I personally don't hit as heavy a ball, but I can put the ball anywhere I want, consistently, and rarely miss. With the Mid, I can grind the ball, and hit any shot that I need. Different sticks, although as close as they are, produce different results, on both sides of the court.
Now to get to your question as to "How did Volkl manage to make the Mid, which has more mass in the head, swing easier than the MP?"
For one, head shape design is a factor. The Mid's heft is more in the shoulders, and the MP's is more at 3/9, where it is wider, which shifts the "feel" of the racquet's center of mass further from the hand. Secondly, the nano carbon DNX's density, how much and where it is applied, is obviously a huge factor--just look at the DC in the London--which is the lay-up. You didn't see this huge difference with the traditional graphite 10 Line frames between the Mid and MPs, as the lay-ups and head shapes were very similar.
Now I could have easily answered your question. But, there are a tremendous amount of wannabes who aspire to be good players, but continue to think like hacks, and believe that they are deities on their public park's courts. However, if you aspire to be a player, than you have to do what players do--if not more--or else, you cannot compete; you are not even in the same league. If you aspire to be good, then do what ranked players do: by feel in your hand and ball efficacy.
jayserinos99
Hall of Fame
I found your post very similar to my experience. My main setup happens to be MSV Hex 1.10 Black at 52 with my PB10mid and my shoes for a while were the GR2s.
The one thing that irked me about MSV has been that my tension dropped after the first 3 sets. Granted I can keep playing with the string until it goes dead at around 38-40 lb, but for matches where I need to play quite serious (playoffs), I'd need to restring every match. Kind of a pain.
Thanks a bunch for the thoughtful response! Thanks for taking the time.
TennisMaverick
Banned
Glad to help....I hope that it was helpful!
I have a Volkl leather grip on one of my PB10 mids and I'm thinking of changing all my grips to leather. More than changing the weight of the racquet, it obviously changes the feel of the racquet in your hand, so I think whether you want to try it depends on your preferences - a contact point like a grip, in my opinion, is very important, yet very subjective.
If you decide to make the switch, Volkl leather is a great way to go, in my opinion.
If you decide to make the switch, Volkl leather is a great way to go, in my opinion.
It is very hard to find a Volkl leather grip in Europe. On the other hand, how much weight does it put on your racquet, once you have replaced your original grip with a leather one?
TennisMaverick
Banned
Depending on how you wrap a Volkl grip, figure approx. 22-24 grams.
aggietex08
Rookie
If you can handle poly cyclone is amazing. Gripper has very mixed reviews. Personally I find it an iroinc string. I feel the texture makes it have an unusually long break in period, and by the time it is broken in a lot of the texture has worn off.
TennisMaverick
Banned
I cannot agree with you on that one.
When not using gut, I have used Tecnifibre through its many generations, since 1981. Never would I have thought that Volkl, a brand that I have used since '93, would manufacture a string which could cup and grip the ball better than Tecnifibre. In the PB 10 Mid, Gripper really increases dwell time--which the stick already provides--and really allows me to hold my shots.
Does the ball pocketing on the gripper give you more of a muted feel? How does this affect the power compared to cyclone. Thanks.
TennisMaverick
Banned
Define "muted". It's not a term that I usually associate with string, unless you mean "dead".
Cyclone just has ridicules bite. Full Cyclone, strung under 45 lbs in a PB 10 Mid plays still easy on the arm, and you can still feel your volleys. However, as with all full-poly string beds, your racquet head acceleration needs to be fast, as it is designed for spin, not power.
Conversely, the Gripper string hugs the ball, so if you want to swing fast, it holds flatter balls and grips spun balls to keep you in-control of your shots. Gripper is a multi, so by definition, there is more feel. If you need spin, go with the Cyclone.
I've had both Volkl Cyclone and Babolat RPM Blast in my PB10 mid, strung at 43/40 and the two strings play similarly (for good reason). RPM has a bit more "cushion," IMO. Cyclone is by far the better value, though.
I've strung my PB10 with NXT 17, and didn't like the overall softness.
TennisMaverick
Banned
Gripper plays similar to NXT Tour with bite. I must hit much flatter than you.
TennisMaverick
Banned
Actually, you're correct. I meant NXT.
NXT Tour plays quicker, like NRG2. Which is why I prefer the softer and less powerful, but with better bite, Gripper.
jonahnaturals
Rookie
volkl gripper felt slipper to me, not much bite, like a cheap nylon almost. I would definitely go with volkl cyclone.
William Bedford
Rookie
Exact same experience as you. AG100's are on the shelf. I could never use poly on the mains but I can with the PB10mid. Love it....
TennisMaverick
Banned
And that is why this stick will soon become a new Volkl Classic.
TennisMaverick
Banned
The sweet spots are similar in size, but the Legend cups the ball whereas the dwell time on the PB 10 Mid is long. The PB 10 Mid is more forgiving on mishits.
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Volkl reps = non-service
Great racquet. Too bad that Volkl's East Coast rep is an unresponsive bum who can't even move on an ordered PB10 Mid for delivery to a noted 19th century est. club in a NYC suburb. This slug sat on it and had to be followed up (2 days wasted) before moving on shipping it (if he even did that)....warning: be advised. Poor job Volkl.
Great racquet. Too bad that Volkl's East Coast rep is an unresponsive bum who can't even move on an ordered PB10 Mid for delivery to a noted 19th century est. club in a NYC suburb. This slug sat on it and had to be followed up (2 days wasted) before moving on shipping it (if he even did that)....warning: be advised. Poor job Volkl.
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TourTenor
Professional
I agree, this is a great stick. Unfortunately, I've also experienced Volkl rep problems (over a number of years). And, I am on the Left Coast. I've had much better luck ordering sticks on TW.
TennisMaverick
Banned
Your problem is quite unique.
The East Coast rep's sales are better than many other reps' combined. I know that he has been traveling all up and down the coast, from DC up to Maine and back this whole month, including during some of the worst storms, as I have spoken with him numerous times while he was on the road. His territory is HUGE. I would attribute your delays to all of the very successful appointments that he has had since the beginning of the year. Secondly, accounts are obviously taken care of in order of size. If you are at a country club, unless you are on LI, I know that the account isn't that large, no matter how prestigious the club is. When ordering one frame, you pro would have been more quickly served if he went to a jobber, like Fr*m*th, since he obviously does not carry enough stock. Also, if you really have an issue, or a question that only he can answer, the rep let me know that I can give you his email address. In the future, since you live outside the City, if TW can't help you, the biggest brick-n-morter location for Volkl in the USA is on Bdwy/19th.
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
TM
^^^^^^
As always, thanks for the info. Cranky me was on the rag and blowing off steam.
Frankly the bottom line for me is: THIS frame (at last!) feels like a legitimate replacement for the long-discontinued C10 Pros I've been playing with. For years, all I would hear is "this replaces the C10..." I'd pick 'em up and play with 'em and never did I ever really feel I was in the same ballpark as the C10 Pro. All those 'Tour 10' models (Gen I, II's and so on)...leading up to the 'black' 2008 C10 which despite what anyone says, I felt was a less substantial version of the old fishscale C10's. DNX10? Felt too clunky/brittle for my taste.
But this PB 10 Mid (93)? Yum-I think Volkl got it right with this one. A quick question: when putting lead on my racquet, I normally center the bulk of my "lead" around where I contact the ball (which is slightly up above center towards the tip, i.e. at 2:30 & 9:30 (this is where my NXT17 multi will start to fray). That said, given your expertise on Volkl frames in general and this PB10 Mid frame in particular, any thoughts/preferences regarding "leading up" a PB 10 Mid? Again, thanks as always.
^^^^^^
As always, thanks for the info. Cranky me was on the rag and blowing off steam.
Frankly the bottom line for me is: THIS frame (at last!) feels like a legitimate replacement for the long-discontinued C10 Pros I've been playing with. For years, all I would hear is "this replaces the C10..." I'd pick 'em up and play with 'em and never did I ever really feel I was in the same ballpark as the C10 Pro. All those 'Tour 10' models (Gen I, II's and so on)...leading up to the 'black' 2008 C10 which despite what anyone says, I felt was a less substantial version of the old fishscale C10's. DNX10? Felt too clunky/brittle for my taste.
But this PB 10 Mid (93)? Yum-I think Volkl got it right with this one. A quick question: when putting lead on my racquet, I normally center the bulk of my "lead" around where I contact the ball (which is slightly up above center towards the tip, i.e. at 2:30 & 9:30 (this is where my NXT17 multi will start to fray). That said, given your expertise on Volkl frames in general and this PB10 Mid frame in particular, any thoughts/preferences regarding "leading up" a PB 10 Mid? Again, thanks as always.
