Am I the only one infuriated by the praise that Michael Vick has been receiving??

ryushen21

ryushen21

Legend
I'll start this first by saying that I am a dog lover and was absolutely appalled by what Michael Vick was involved in and/or allowed to happen on his property and that I don't think that he got nearly harsh enough of a punishment for the crimes he was involved in.

I have been rather confounded lately by all of the positive press that he has been receiving from various sources including the President. More than this, I am absolutely in shock that people are actually saying that he should be allowed to own dogs again.

I understand that for most people the thinking is that they were dogs not people. And I get that. If the choice came down to saving my dog or my kids, it's adios fido.

But I do not understand how anyone can, in good conscience, endorse him being responsible for any animal after what he did or was complicit in allowing to happen. It saddens me that organizations/people throwing around cash gets someone convicted of horrendous acts an endorsement and Presidential support.
 
ryushen21

ryushen21

Legend
I'm not referring to his exploits on the field but moreso the actions of those people he is involved with blatantly trying to buy him back into favor with the rest of the world who could not possibly care less about his football abilities.
 
Power Player

Power Player

Bionic Poster
I'm not. The guy went to prison. Prison sucks. He paid the price financially as well. What more do you want? Since going to prison, he has become a much better public speaker and person. He also had an amazing year filled with highlight film plays.

He could have rotted in prison..joined gangs..held a grudge..been a locker room cancer...etc. He came out of it impressively well IMO.
 
r2473

r2473

G.O.A.T.
ryushen21 said:
I'm not referring to his exploits on the field but moreso the actions of those people he is involved with blatantly trying to buy him back into favor with the rest of the world who could not possibly care less about his football abilities.
Click to expand...

He played well this year. What more do you want :)
 
r2473

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Power Player said:
I'm not. The guy went to prison. Prison sucks. He paid the price financially as well. What more do you want? Since going to prison, he has become a much better public speaker and person. He also had an amazing year filled with highlight film plays.

He could have rotted in prison..joined gangs..held a grudge..been a locker room cancer...etc. He came out of it impressively well IMO.
Click to expand...

All of this would have meant **** if he hadn't performed well on the field.
 
A

angharad

Semi-Pro
It's sports media. They love a redemption arc, even if the person's own horrific behavior is what they need to be redeemed from.

My issue with the whole thing is that there are some genuinely good guys in the NFL (and the wider world of sports) who are far more deserving of praise. I'd rather the media focus on them.
 
r2473

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Power Player said:
Dude is an unreal QB and is fun to watch. It definitley makes a difference to be talented. No doubt about it.
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No argument from me. He is much more fun to watch now than during his pre-prison days when all he did was run. He could still sling the ball then, just couldn't hit a barn door.

Guy is tough too. I agree with coach Reid. If any other guy took shots like Vick did, there would have been yellow flags flying everywhere. But Vick took his punishment with nary a word.

I'm just answering the OP's question (an answer that I am sure he figured out himself even before posting).
 
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ryushen21

ryushen21

Legend
angharad said:
It's sports media. They love a redemption arc, even if the person's own horrific behavior is what they need to be redeemed from.

My issue with the whole thing is that there are some genuinely good guys in the NFL (and the wider world of sports) who are far more deserving of praise. I'd rather the media focus on them.
Click to expand...

That's true. Too bad they can't pick something else to focus on.

And I agree with you that there are a lot of ofther athletes that do great charity work that don't get recognized for it.
 
J

jswinf

Professional
Power Player said:
I'm not. The guy went to prison. Prison sucks. He paid the price financially as well. What more do you want? Since going to prison, he has become a much better public speaker and person. He also had an amazing year filled with highlight film plays.

He could have rotted in prison..joined gangs..held a grudge..been a locker room cancer...etc. He came out of it impressively well IMO.
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I pretty much agree with this. Vick was sentenced and served his time. Why shouldn't he have a chance to return to his former occupation? It just so happens that being an NFL star generates fame.

I don't think he should be allowed to own dogs again, though. If he misses them, let him volunteer at a Humane Society or other shelter for his dog fix.
 
ryushen21

ryushen21

Legend
jswinf said:
I pretty much agree with this. Vick was sentenced and served his time. Why shouldn't he have a chance to return to his former occupation? It just so happens that being an NFL star generates fame.

I don't think he should be allowed to own dogs again, though. If he misses them, let him volunteer at a Humane Society or other shelter for his dog fix.
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This is the part that has really been getting to me. The Eagles donating money to the SPCA to get him an endorsement saying that he should be allowed to own dogs again. That, to me, is unfathomable. I think that a percentage of his earnings for the rest of his career should be given to no-kill shelters and he can be allowed to volunteer with supervision.
 
E

eliza

Guest
Not related to tennis, but I praise you for putting this post. Appalling that a public officer uses his position to call a murderer and his sponsor of second choices......
But, same officer used his influence to get his auntie (illegally here and TWICE ordered deportation) a green card......
Oh tempora, oh mores.
 
ollinger

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
There are established penalties for crimes. He served the penalty for his. Taking a percentage of his earnings would likely be unconstitutional (punishments that are cruel or unusual are forbidden; this would be unusual, in that nobody can cite another instance of it.) With all criminals who've served their punishment, there comes a time when we move on and stop interfering in his life. He's done his time and I wish him well.
 
C

CCNM

Hall of Fame
Don't think he should be allowed to own any kind of animal. So far I'm glad to see that he is trying to make himself look good again.
 
D

Dave M

Hall of Fame
Shouldn't be allowed to own animals again I fully agree with that.(I'd of thought it'd be a std part of the terms of release to be honest.)
Sadly young (ish) athletically talented people rarely make particulallygood role models.Look at the idiots paid thousands to play in the Premier league in England. I saw an interesting piece by a psychologist who was asked why she thought these "stars" kept getting in trouble.She summed it up something like, "for their whole lives people have succked up to them because the excel at sport, they aren't used to people saying no and often do not know how to react".
Sadly someone will always bail them out.
 
bad_call

bad_call

Legend
been said that America is a place where people can get 2nd chances. look at Spitzer, TV evangelists, Florida's new governor :shock: lol, etc, etc...what a country. :)
 
R

ronalditop

Hall of Fame
I dont care if the media praise him for his football skills, I only expect that he isnt allowed to own animals ever again and, if he is really sorry for what he did, he should willfully donate money to no kill animal shelters for a long time, at least while his career allows him to.
 
T

The Wreck

Semi-Pro
I see what you guys are saying about the never being allowed to own animals, but I'll be in the minority here and say I don't agree.

This is different, in my opinion, than an abusive dog owner. These weren't his "pets". This was an operation that was essentially being financed by him, and not much else. It was horrendous, yes. But I think letting him have a pet would be a good thing.

If he were allowed to have a dog, an actual PET, it would be a positive way to bring closure to the situation. If he develops and emotional connection with the dog, it would allow him to see the severity of his earlier actions. To me, it would be the ultimate form of healing and realizing true regret.

Just my .02 cents. If he's everything he says he is, then I think it could be positive.
 
10ACE

10ACE

Professional
Power Player said:
I'm not. The guy went to prison. Prison sucks. He paid the price financially as well. What more do you want? Since going to prison, he has become a much better public speaker and person. He also had an amazing year filled with highlight film plays.

He could have rotted in prison..joined gangs..held a grudge..been a locker room cancer...etc. He came out of it impressively well IMO.
Click to expand...

BAM Vick paid his dues. He does more good then harm now- advocate for animals right now too the bad press and actions of his past and his crime has brought much more attention to illegal dog fights.

Think how much the cleveland browns wished they had him!
 
Fedace

Fedace

Banned
ryushen21 said:
I'll start this first by saying that I am a dog lover and was absolutely appalled by what Michael Vick was involved in and/or allowed to happen on his property and that I don't think that he got nearly harsh enough of a punishment for the crimes he was involved in.

I have been rather confounded lately by all of the positive press that he has been receiving from various sources including the President. More than this, I am absolutely in shock that people are actually saying that he should be allowed to own dogs again.

I understand that for most people the thinking is that they were dogs not people. And I get that. If the choice came down to saving my dog or my kids, it's adios fido.

But I do not understand how anyone can, in good conscience, endorse him being responsible for any animal after what he did or was complicit in allowing to happen. It saddens me that organizations/people throwing around cash gets someone convicted of horrendous acts an endorsement and Presidential support.
Click to expand...

He only killed some dogs not humans. Ray Lewis stabbed someone few times and he is heralded as next hall of famer. and noone is talking about that incident anymore.....
 
A

angharad

Semi-Pro
10ACE said:
BAM Vick paid his dues. He does more good then harm now- advocate for animals right now too the bad press and actions of his past and his crime has brought much more attention to illegal dog fights.

Think how much the cleveland browns wished they had him!
Click to expand...

I believe much of his advocacy is court-ordered. I've been looking for the actual terms of his parole, which I'm 99.9% positive included public outreach stuff, but I've had little luck so far.

He did, however, just refuse to meet one of "his" dogs that was rescued, rehabilitated, and adopted. His refusal came immediately after collecting the key to the city of Dallas.
 
F

fruitytennis1

Professional
The Wreck said:
I see what you guys are saying about the never being allowed to own animals, but I'll be in the minority here and say I don't agree.

This is different, in my opinion, than an abusive dog owner. These weren't his "pets". This was an operation that was essentially being financed by him, and not much else. It was horrendous, yes. But I think letting him have a pet would be a good thing.

If he were allowed to have a dog, an actual PET, it would be a positive way to bring closure to the situation. If he develops and emotional connection with the dog, it would allow him to see the severity of his earlier actions. To me, it would be the ultimate form of healing and realizing true regret.

Just my .02 cents. If he's everything he says he is, then I think it could be positive.
Click to expand...

I kind of agree with this.
Also i say everyone deserves a second chances(most instances)
 
maverick66

maverick66

Hall of Fame
Fedace said:
He only killed some dogs not humans. Ray Lewis stabbed someone few times and he is heralded as next hall of famer. and noone is talking about that incident anymore.....
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Ray Lewis was at a bar where someone got stabbed. He was questioned because he knew the people involved. He never stabbed anyone.

I dont get the people saying let him have dogs so he can see his mistake. Thats like saying let a rapist have sex with women so he can see how it feels when its not illegal. It just doesnt really make sense.
 
T

The Wreck

Semi-Pro
maverick66 said:
Ray Lewis was at a bar where someone got stabbed. He was questioned because he knew the people involved. He never stabbed anyone.

I dont get the people saying let him have dogs so he can see his mistake. Thats like saying let a rapist have sex with women so he can see how it feels when its not illegal. It just doesnt really make sense.
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I'm not sticking up for him, but he was essentially a money backer for the whole thing...he wasn't primarily involved in the actual killing/beating/fighting, though he certainly partook at some point.

And there is a vast difference between owning a dog for the sake of fighting (like he did), and owning one as a pet. The dogs in that kennel weren't 'pets', they were investments, killers. Its not like he had a pet dog and then killed it one day. Those are vastly different circumstances.

And despite how naive people want to be, dog fighting is a widely popular and legal sport in many places throughout the world. Saying Vick and Vick alone should be deprived of ever leading a normal life again because he partook in an (illegal) activity is awfully harsh as well.

Again, not defending him, just voicing some opinions. He was absolutely wrong, but really...what do you people who are against actually think he's gonna do with a dog assuming he even wants one? Fight it? Abuse it? Ha. If he ever got a pet, it would be so highly scrutinized that even if he wanted to do such a thing (I dont believe he does) there would be no way he could get away with it.
 
HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
ronalditop said:
I dont care if the media praise him for his football skills, I only expect that he isnt allowed to own animals ever again and, if he is really sorry for what he did, he should willfully donate money to no kill animal shelters for a long time, at least while his career allows him to.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. The ONLY way he could be redeemed, in my mind, is if he saved more animals than he harmed.

I understand that he played well and that shouldn't be sugar coated, but the guy demonstrated his character with the dog fighting. I don't care how much time he spent in prison, he still took pleasure in killing and torturing dogs. I really doubt that he feels remorse for his actions. He regrets getting caught, but I have no doubt that he would still be dog fighting if laws against it didn't exist.
 
HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
The Wreck said:
I'm not sticking up for him, but he was essentially a money backer for the whole thing...he wasn't primarily involved in the actual killing/beating/fighting, though he certainly partook at some point.

And there is a vast difference between owning a dog for the sake of fighting (like he did), and owning one as a pet. The dogs in that kennel weren't 'pets', they were investments, killers. Its not like he had a pet dog and then killed it one day. Those are vastly different circumstances.

And despite how naive people want to be, dog fighting is a widely popular and legal sport in many places throughout the world. Saying Vick and Vick alone should be deprived of ever leading a normal life again because he partook in an (illegal) activity is awfully harsh as well.

Again, not defending him, just voicing some opinions. He was absolutely wrong, but really...what do you people who are against actually think he's gonna do with a dog assuming he even wants one? Fight it? Abuse it? Ha. If he ever got a pet, it would be so highly scrutinized that even if he wanted to do such a thing (I dont believe he does) there would be no way he could get away with it.
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I agree. You remember that abusive mother who beat her child, didn't give him adequate food, and forced him to eat his own feces? Well she wasn't thinking of that as her child. Having a kid to abuse and having a kid as a child are vastly different circumstances.

Really, throughout the world and in history people have abused their kids. Why should this woman alone face so much persecution?
 
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T

tennisnoob3

Professional
HunterST said:
Absolutely. The ONLY way he could be redeemed, in my mind, is if he saved more animals than he harmed.

I understand that he played well and that shouldn't be sugar coated, but the guy demonstrated his character with the dog fighting. I don't care how much time he spent in prison, he still took pleasure in killing and torturing dogs. I really doubt that he feels remorse for his actions. He regrets getting caught, but I have no doubt that he would still be dog fighting if laws against it didn't exist.
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like the wreck said, i dont think he actually participated, just backed it up with money.

the guys is still bankrupt fwiw....

he has done a ton of community service, on his own, by going around to local schools and talking about a lot of things, and it has received great attention and praise from those in attendance, thus the praise.

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/education/michael-vick-dog-fighting-new-haven-students
 
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HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
tennisnoob3 said:
like the wreck said, i dont think he actually participated, just backed it up with money.

the guys is still bankrupt fwiw....

he has done a ton of community service, on his own, by going around to local schools and talking about a lot of things, and it has received great attention and praise from those in attendance, thus the praise.

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/education/michael-vick-dog-fighting-new-haven-students
Click to expand...

You really believe he owned a dog fighting organization and never participated in any of the fighting or treated the dogs brutally? That seems quite naive.

As I said, I don't care how much PR he does, how much time he spent in jail, or how many speeches he gives. He's shown the type of character he has. I've always believed a good way to measure someone's character is to look at how they treat those that they have no reason to treat well. Well, Vick forces them to fight to the death and electrocutes and slams the losers to death. Not the kind of guy that I root for.
 
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T

tennisnoob3

Professional
HunterST said:
You really believe he owned a dog fighting organization and never participated in any of the fighting or treated the dogs brutally? That seems quite naive.

As I said, I don't care how much PR he does, how much time he spent in jail, or how many speeches he gives. He's showed the type of character he has. I've always believed a good way to measure someone's character is to look at how they treat those that they have no reason to treat well. Well, Vick forces them to fight to the death and electrocutes and slams the losers to death. Not the kind of guy that I root for.
Click to expand...

jeez, thats a terrible mentality. you're judging him solely off a single, albeit his lowest, action? if i judged you that way, what would my view be of you or the rest of the world?
 
HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
tennisnoob3 said:
jeez, thats a terrible mentality. you're judging him solely off a single, albeit his lowest, action? if i judged you that way, what would my view be of you or the rest of the world?
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Yeah, I've never understood why people only judge Hitler for the worst thing he ever did.

First of all, it wasn't one action. It went on for years. Second, people are judged based on their lowest moments all the time. Third, most people's lowest actions do not include torturing and killing hundreds of animals FOR FUN.
 
T

tennisnoob3

Professional
HunterST said:
Yeah, I've never understood why people only judge Hitler for the worst thing he ever did.

First of all, it wasn't one action. It went on for years. Second, people are judged based on their lowest moments all the time. Third, most people's lowest actions do not include torturing and killing hundreds of animals FOR FUN.
Click to expand...

nvm.....

10char
 
HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
tennisnoob3 said:
hitler? i'm talking day to day mundane people, should've clarified. people make mistakes of all sizes, but they forgive and forget. he didnt murder a human, yet people act like he should be given the death sentence or executed.

was there any evidence of him ACTUALLY directly harming them? i think peta blew it out of proportion quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Doesn't make sense. You can't say it's wrong to judge people based only on their most despicable actions but then say there are exceptions for certain people.

You've got to be incredibly naive if you think Michael Vick owned a huge dog fighting ring and never harmed a dog. Furthermore, financing the ring and, thus, allowing and condoning other people to torture and kill the dogs is just as bad. After all, Osama Bin Laden never directly killed any Americans.

I'm not comparing Michael Vick to Hitler or Osama Bin Laden. I'm just pointng out that the logic for judging people has to be consistent.
 
maverick66

maverick66

Hall of Fame
Yes there was evidence of him directly drowning losing dogs. So he is a bad guy. The guy is and will always be a bad guy. He might not be Hitler(seriously people have to stop calling other people Hitler. There are other bad people in history.) but he is no angel or guy who just financed something.
 
T

tennisnoob3

Professional
maverick66 said:
Yes there was evidence of him directly drowning losing dogs. So he is a bad guy. The guy is and will always be a bad guy. He might not be Hitler(seriously people have to stop calling other people Hitler. There are other bad people in history.) but he is no angel or guy who just financed something.
Click to expand...

hitler was a wuss compared to stalin anyway, but he never gets mentioned
 
juanparty

juanparty

Hall of Fame
it's USA dude, at least he's not a sexual predator like Ben Rotliesburguer (and he is free) David Megget will spend 50 years in prision due to r@pe a girl.
 
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T

tennisnoob3

Professional
HunterST said:
Doesn't make sense. You can't say it's wrong to judge people based only on their most despicable actions but then say there are exceptions for certain people.

You've got to be incredibly naive if you think Michael Vick owned a huge dog fighting ring and never harmed a dog. Furthermore, financing the ring and, thus, allowing and condoning other people to torture and kill the dogs is just as bad. After all, Osama Bin Laden never directly killed any Americans.

I'm not comparing Michael Vick to Hitler or Osama Bin Laden. I'm just pointng out that the logic for judging people has to be consistent.
Click to expand...

i realized my view is probably much different than yours, thus the edit.

imo, animals<people. no exceptions. imo, famous people get turned into posterchilds due to their status.

slightly on topic: big ben was never convicted of anything and both "accusations" were withdrawn, no?

wow juanparty read my mind
 
jmverdugo

jmverdugo

Hall of Fame
I think he paid his dues, came back to his regular life and did it big time. I say let him have his pet, you guys seem to think that he is pe-T-ofile or something like that, do you think he is going to get a chiguagua and make it run over broken glass or something? Everybody is looking at him now.

I for one look back to some things I did when I was younger and regret them, I know that what I did was stupid, it is a good thing that I was not being followed by the TTrs here, other wise I wouldn't be allowed to go in to airplanes, bars and public transportation and couldn't be closer than 300ft of any dog, snake, ant, cat and horses.

It may not be similar but let's talk about the guys that are bullies in highschool and even in college, some of them change for good and some not but then should we not allow them to have friens anymore?
 
HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
tennisnoob3 said:
i realized my view is probably much different than yours, thus the edit.

imo, animals<people. no exceptions. imo, famous people get turned into posterchilds due to their status.

slightly on topic: big ben was never convicted of anything and both "accusations" were withdrawn, no?

wow juanparty read my mind
Click to expand...

Yeah, that sparks a whole new, philosophical debate. You have to wonder, what makes a human life inherently more valuable than the life of an animal? Is it the human's superior intelligence? If so, then should a person who kills a mentally handicapped person receive a lesser punishment than someone who harms a normal functioning individual? Certainly not. Then what is the difference? Dogs feels fear, excitement, happiness and love just the way humans do.

From the view of humans it's very easy to say human life is more important than the lives of animals. An objective observer, however, may think different.
 
S

stanton warrior

Rookie
HunterST said:
Yeah, that sparks a whole new, philosophical debate. You have to wonder, what makes a human life inherently more valuable than the life of an animal? Is it the human's superior intelligence? If so, then should a person who kills a mentally handicapped person receive a lesser punishment than someone who harms a normal functioning individual? Certainly not. Then what is the difference? Dogs feels fear, excitement, happiness and love just the way humans do.

From the view of humans it's very easy to say human life is more important than the lives of animals. An objective observer, however, may think different.
Click to expand...

Very interesting point.

Makes you think...
And not just in this case, but also when you look at factory farming.
There's a reason why it's illegal (or soon will be) to speak badly about the american meat industry. If people knew all the details...
 
dlk

dlk

Hall of Fame
HunterST said:
Yeah, that sparks a whole new, philosophical debate. You have to wonder, what makes a human life inherently more valuable than the life of an animal? Is it the human's superior intelligence? If so, then should a person who kills a mentally handicapped person receive a lesser punishment than someone who harms a normal functioning individual? Certainly not. Then what is the difference? Dogs feels fear, excitement, happiness and love just the way humans do.

From the view of humans it's very easy to say human life is more important than the lives of animals. An objective observer, however, may think different.
Click to expand...

Eastern thought considers animals sentient; but in a philosophy class I once took, we argued this very subject & seperated humans by virture of mind/consciousness categories: intelligence, sapience, self awareness, etc...But I'm still undecided & do not flush spiders down the port-hole.
 
M

maleyoyo

Professional
HunterST said:
Yeah, that sparks a whole new, philosophical debate. You have to wonder, what makes a human life inherently more valuable than the life of an animal? Is it the human's superior intelligence? If so, then should a person who kills a mentally handicapped person receive a lesser punishment than someone who harms a normal functioning individual? Certainly not. Then what is the difference? Dogs feels fear, excitement, happiness and love just the way humans do.

From the view of humans it's very easy to say human life is more important than the lives of animals. An objective observer, however, may think different.
Click to expand...
When people say they love animals, I ponder.
Do they eat meat? Does their family eat meat? Do they know how people slaughter animals for our consumption. Do they use any animal-related products? In some countries killing animals is a spectator sports, do they have any issues with it? If they care about animals as they say they do, I suspect they'd do more for the animals' rights than singling out Michael Vick.
Even with Michael Vick, people are barking up the wrong tree. If they feel his punishment is unjust, their issue is with our justice system, not with the man himself.
For a lot of people, when they say they care about animals, what they really mean to say is they care about their pets, dogs and cats.
 
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